The pros and cons of emigration
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The government's provision of basic needs like housing, jobs and security is no longer enough to keep Singaporeans in Singapore. There continues to be an upward trend in Singaporeans emigrating. What are the pros, cons and consequences of emigration?
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emigration not easy. want to emigrate must plan properly. $$ most important must have standby cash of 100,000.
Many uncle/aunties I know left in the 80's some were architects businessmen. When they reach their new home they discovered that they could not practice in their chosen professions because of few reasons.
1) discrimination
2) Law which protect workers there from the likes of us.
3) racism
etc ...
Of course they were taken care of by the welfare state which provided almost everything food, medical, education etc..
In time many of their children had very good education provided by the state but when they came out to work they discovered the 3 rules above their parents experienced applies to them as well, a few of them I personally know with masters degrees work as cashiers at macdonalds for a number of years.
Not trying to frighten you or pour water.
One of the many useful things commented by these people when they came back to singapore for social visits was that many had wished prior to emigration they had learned more generic skills like plumbing, welding, vehicle repair etc .. in other works blue collar stuff where skills for these jobs were plentiful..
One architect after years of hardship and being broke most of the time slowly saved enuf to finally own his small private bus company ferrying singaporeans on holiday to golf course resorts.
Because you never know how bad yur situation gonna get over there.
I think for most of you high tertiary grads out there who thinking of emigration, as an acid test go ITE and attend the night courses on precision engineering, welding, plumbing etc ...
why?
1) To see how serious you are in this endavour.
2) If you cannot see yourself in the possibility as a plumber or blue collar worker then probably you won't be able to take the hardships and prolonged periods of unemployment there.
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Thanks for sharing Paul!!! I can't agree with u more. Unless u possess certain skill sets that are scarce and in high demands, otherwise it is never easy to get a good job here in OZ. Trades skills like mechanic, plumbering, electrician are always in demand..even hairdressing.Originally posted by paulho:emigration not easy. want to emigrate must plan properly. $$ most important must have standby cash of 100,000.
Many uncle/aunties I know left in the 80's some were architects businessmen. When they reach their new home they discovered that they could not practice in their chosen professions because of few reasons.
1) discrimination
2) Law which protect workers there from the likes of us.
3) racism
etc ...
Of course they were taken care of by the welfare state which provided almost everything food, medical, education etc..
In time many of their children had very good education provided by the state but when they came out to work they discovered the 3 rules above their parents experienced applies to them as well, a few of them I personally know with masters degrees work as cashiers at macdonalds for a number of years.
Not trying to frighten you or pour water.
One of the many useful things commented by these people when they came back to singapore for social visits was that many had wished prior to emigration they had learned more generic skills like plumbing, welding, vehicle repair etc .. in other works blue collar stuff where skills for these jobs were plentiful..
One architect after years of hardship and being broke most of the time slowly saved enuf to finally own his small private bus company ferrying singaporeans on holiday to golf course resorts.
Because you never know how bad yur situation gonna get over there.
I think for most of you high tertiary grads out there who thinking of emigration, as an acid test go ITE and attend the night courses on precision engineering, welding, plumbing etc ...
why?
1) To see how serious you are in this endavour.
2) If you cannot see yourself in the possibility as a plumber or blue collar worker then probably you won't be able to take the hardships and prolonged periods of unemployment there.
0.02
At the end of the day, many asians started their own small businesses here like take aways, etc..
One golden rule, never burn the bridge after u crossed it. Even though u may have gotten PR, retain your pink IC..because..u never know................... -
hahah..
Ok.. i was discussing this with my friend who is from India.
He told me that the Indian government wants to allow for dual citizenships for its people.
In india, they are encouraged to leave the country, earn aussie/pounds/us dollars. To reduce unemployment in the company. Think about this..
You are.. accounting/IT/marketing whatever grads. Do you want those people coming back from overseas unis and fighting for your jobs? -
Wouldn't they be denied PR visas if the professional associations do not recognise their skills and qualifications?Originally posted by paulho:emigration not easy. want to emigrate must plan properly. $$ most important must have standby cash of 100,000.
Many uncle/aunties I know left in the 80's some were architects businessmen. When they reach their new home they discovered that they could not practice in their chosen professions because of few reasons.
1) discrimination
2) Law which protect workers there from the likes of us.
3) racism
etc ... -
India, China and other big countries are different they have huge populations, if 10million suddenly left india, the government there would be smiling because it would have 10million less to feed.Originally posted by Lingos:hahah..
Ok.. i was discussing this with my friend who is from India.
He told me that the Indian government wants to allow for dual citizenships for its people.
In india, they are encouraged to leave the country, earn aussie/pounds/us dollars. To reduce unemployment in the company. Think about this..
You are.. accounting/IT/marketing whatever grads. Do you want those people coming back from overseas unis and fighting for your jobs?
Not saying it is no good to emigrate but before taking plunge check out everything first, talk to people who have already emigrated a few years ago and stayed in the place that you want to go.
Visit the place yourself, find out if the local tribes there are hostile or not, find out what sort of local industries there whether it suits your chosen profession or not then make an informed decision.
If you think will be in demand over there because you got high qualification over here ask yurself 1 question: what make you think that your cert/degree/skillset is so valuable there? In countries like australia and I think canada universal education is free don't you think their own people have this sort of qualification too?
Further more unlike singapore there are laws and very powerful unions there which protect workers rights.
One funny case I heard was this disgruntled aussie employee 'fingered' his asian boss during a company party reception, naturally the asian boss sacked him, the unions intervened the boss lost the case ruled in favor of the employee because it was claimed under "influence of alcohol" ... such thing also have. The boss was stuck with that employee. Many such cases and many ppl started businesses there have lost money.
find out, find out, find out. -
I think during 80's it was quite relax, if I'm not wrong I heard O/A level or some industrial cert from ITE(before known as VITB) can leow.Originally posted by Lingos:Wouldn't they be denied PR visas if the professional associations do not recognise their skills and qualifications? -
Now that it is strict as for the benefit of both parties. Both the country and the individual. People in Singas cry racism.Originally posted by paulho:I think during 80's it was quite relax, if I'm not wrong I heard O/A level or some industrial cert from ITE(before known as VITB) can leow.
I guess they can never win. -
DOUBLE post. oppps.
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So you're saying that it is harder to live in Singas cos -> over demand in housing needs drive prices up. ra ra. And jobs are harder to come by. It is the same thing that we are facing in the other countries isn't it? Paul you seem to falliously think that singapore, china and india are welfare countries. By saying that "Singapore government's provision of..." The Singapore government pays for nothing. You slave for 30 years to pay off the HDB flat. You slave for the $3 to buy lunch. You slave for the repayments of the car. The government doesn't hand those out.Originally posted by paulho:India, China and other big countries are different they have huge populations, if 10million suddenly left india, the government there would be smiling because it would have 10million less to feed.
Not saying it is no good to emigrate but before taking plunge check out everything first, talk to people who have already emigrated a few years ago and stayed in the place that you want to go.
Visit the place yourself, find out if the local tribes there are hostile or not, find out what sort of local industries there whether it suits your chosen profession or not then make an informed decision.
If you think will be in demand over there because you got high qualification over here ask yurself 1 question: what make you think that your cert/degree/skillset is so valuable there? In countries like australia and I think canada universal education is free don't you think their own people have this sort of qualification too?
Further more unlike singapore there are laws and very powerful unions there which protect workers rights.
One funny case I heard was this disgruntled aussie employee 'fingered' his asian boss during a company party reception, naturally the asian boss sacked him, the unions intervened the boss lost the case ruled in favor of the employee because it was claimed under "influence of alcohol" ... such thing also have. The boss was stuck with that employee. Many such cases and many ppl started businesses there have lost money.
find out, find out, find out.
Hmm.. what company was that? So the company loses an unfair dismissal suit. The point is?? And when was the case heard? Who was involved and when was this? How does this show racial discrimination?
Yes there is competition, there is competition for jobs everywhere. And what makes you think your qualifications are recognised in Singapore?
I think with information freely available, i do not think that people would go there thinking that there are undiscovered gold mines. To migrate.. first of all.. you probably need a sponsor, lots of dough or skills that are recognised in that country. Least in Australia anyway.
I really doubt that people who migrate are not aware of what they are getting considering to even apply for migration costs a bit of money. -
FYI Paul,
Update: Medicare no longer takes care of all your medical bills
Welfare state? honey you don't get the dole for the first two years as a PR.
Basically there is no more free lunch here. -
You are wrong, there were ppl who left in the 80's recession here thinking of a better life elsewhere only to find out it was a deeper sheethole there.Originally posted by Lingos:So you're saying that it is harder to live in Singas cos -> over demand in housing needs drive prices up. ra ra. And jobs are harder to come by. It is the same thing isn't it?
Hmm.. what company was that? So the company loses an unfair dismissal suit. The point is?
Yes there is competition, there is competition for jobs everywhere. My pet peeve is people who migrate here yet go on and on about racism in westie countries. Question is..why are you still here? I think with information freely available, i do not think that people would go there thinking that there are undiscovered gold mines. To migrate.. first of all.. you probably need a sponsor.
I really doubt that people who migrate are not aware of what they are getting.
The case abt unfair dismissal I only heard it from a family friend when he visited us short while ago who told us abt his early struggles and news he picked up from the asian communities there.
There was 1 true account personally experienced by another friend. He rented an outlet to sell food at a popular area, then just before the peak season arrived, the landlord evicted them to rent the premises to an "australian", when it was low season again the landlord allowed them to re-rent the premises, this happened twice at that location. After that they rented elsewhere.
Just trying to warn my countrymen not to be ignorant and beware of premeditated discrimination. -
I'm talking about today.. 2004! 80s was when everyone had free access. You yourself said how easy it was to migrate in the 80s.Originally posted by paulho:You are wrong, there were ppl who left in the 80's recession here thinking of a better life elsewhere only to find out it was a deeper sheethole there.
The case abt unfair dismissal I only heard it from a family friend when he visited us short while ago who told us abt his early struggles and news he picked up from the asian communities there.
There was 1 true account personally experienced by another friend. He rented an outlet to sell food at a popular area, then just before the peak season arrived, the landlord evicted them to rent the premises to an "australian", when it was low season again the landlord allowed them to re-rent the premises, this happened twice at that location. After that they rented elsewhere.
Just trying to warn my countrymen not to be ignorant and beware of premeditated discrimination.
HAHHA.. then i suggest that your friend stays in Sg.. unfair dismissal cases are everywhere. There may be more than meets the eye. Or this could have never happened. If you're not in the situation, you do not know both sides of the coin.
Also if the shop that he rented is under a lease contract he cannot be kicked out. To be removed from a rental property (even when the 1 year or 6 months contract is over) you have to give at least 60 days notice to be removed. As a tenant you give 30 days notice to vacate the place. This applies to residential properties, i'm sure commerical leases are more giving than that. if this guy was trying to do dodgy stuff and didn't have a lease or was subleasing illegally. Then there's no basis for an argument. -
that so? they used to do that or so I've been told. Times have changed.Originally posted by Lingos:FYI Paul,
Update: Medicare no longer takes care of all your medical bills
Welfare state? honey you don't get the dole for the first two years as a PR.
Basically there is no more free lunch here.
Pity, but better u than me honey !!!
native born australians are the among the most laziest rascals in the world I'm not surprised that your countrymen has managed to bilk the system and booze it almost dry.
hopefully this wakeup call will get you up from yur backsides and off to work you lazy bums.
Otherwise next thing u know your government be hitting up the world bank for a loan.
Just don't come knocking on our door for it. -
Maybe you should check latest policies before biting people's heads off. It's not hard to get a job at all.. it's the same as any other country. Opportunities are there, would you take that job in Delifrance for $4? Well.. cash in hand jobs pay $10 per hour. This is undeclared.Originally posted by paulho:that so? they used to do that or so I've been told. Times have changed.
Pity, but better u than me honey !!!
native born australians are the among the most laziest rascals in the world I'm not surprised that your countrymen has managed to bilk the system and booze it almost dry.
hopefully this wakeup call will get you up from yur backsides and off to work you lazy bums.
Otherwise next thing u know your government be hitting up the world bank for a loan.
Just don't come knocking on our door for it.
How many of your friends are aussies. How many do you actually know? It depends on where you live and who you are associating with. Yes i've seen lots of trailer trash in my visitor services position. I also know lots of people who work 14 hours a day. Yes.. they are white. And yes, some asians (viets/HKs/chinese) are professional welfare cheats as well. So don't point the finger too soon.
Do not throw around the word "my government" without checking who my government is. It is the same as your government.
The one who supposedly has difficulty providing its citizens with houses. I better put my name down for the free house and food package that the government is giving out. No wonder your government has to borrow money from the world bank.
Hmm.. prepare for overnight economic reforms by some foreign body. -
I'm sorry Paul, but this post is just hilarious. Why would the Australian government be hitting the World Bank for a loan? Is the value of the Australian dollar dropping? If anything, Singapore is in more danger than Australia of going to hell in a handbasket.Originally posted by paulho:native born australians are the among the most laziest rascals in the world I'm not surprised that your countrymen has managed to bilk the system and booze it almost dry.
hopefully this wakeup call will get you up from yur backsides and off to work you lazy bums.
Otherwise next thing u know your government be hitting up the world bank for a loan.
Just don't come knocking on our door for it.
But what's really funny is that I've seen heaps of Singaporean students blindly go to Australian universities with that "Australians are lazy" myth, only to be sent packing home with their arses handed neatly to them.
So you just go ahead thinking that Australians are lazy - meanwhile, they'll be using that illusion against you. Real smart.
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paul, many Singaporeans, armed with their fancy degrees and oodles of work experience, go to Australia expecting to find a jobs paradise waiting for them when they migrate over. The fact is, like any mature economy, white collar jobs are not that easy to find. Not extinct, just difficult to find. Then again, our own country ain't no haven for white collar jobs too isn't it?
What Australia does not lack, which Singapore does, is opportunities. Opportunities to run a small business, without GLCs who use their fat wallets and forge a devil's alliance with regulatory bodies to shift the goalposts in their favour to the detriment of small businessmen.
And that fact that for the same amount of money which will see you living like a church mouse in Singapore with a 3 room pigeonhole which is NEVER yours, you'll get to live in a relatively nice house with a garden, not to mention a family car fo 2 to boot. -
Very Sorry,Originally posted by Gedanken:So you just go ahead thinking that Australians are lazy - meanwhile, they'll be using that illusion against you. Real smart.
If australians not lazy...
y in the 80's was there a mass exodus of different nationalities going australia?
Who invitied them to plant their roots there?
Isn't there enough native born australians with supposedly very good trained skillsets already? Isn't it supposed to be that way after they getting universal education for free.
So Why? What reason was there a need to get these people to migrate to australia? Was it for fun?
pls think but dun use your ass for it. -
Yeah, right, I'm the one thinking with my arse? Substitue "Australia" for "Singapore", brainiac - you just called yourself a lazy arsehole. I don't know how true that is, but given your penchant for shooting yourself in the foot, you sure are dumb.Originally posted by paulho:Very Sorry,
If australians not lazy...
y in the 80's was there a mass exodus of different nationalities going australia?
Who invitied them to plant their roots there?
Isn't there enough native born australians with supposedly very good trained skillsets already? Isn't it supposed to be that way after they getting universal education for free.
So Why? What reason was there a need to get these people to migrate to australia? Was it for fun?
pls think but dun use your ass for it.
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hey jonhy... u got from WISP question isit? hahaha
