Arts school is elitist: Parents
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Here we go again. When will they ever learn?
How long must it take before the Education Ministry walks the talk, and realises that good grades do not make good arts or sports students?
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/discuss-singapore/message/11089
Its admission criteria draws flak for favouring Express stream students
SOME parents have criticised the proposed admission criteria for the arts school as elitist, reported NewsRadio 93.8.
Disappointed that the arts school will admit primarily Express stream students, they see it as another move to give more opportunities to the better students and shut the door to the less academically-inclined.
The parents questioned whether the aim of setting up the school was really to help develop artistic students.
One parent said it was time to recognise that not all students can be good at the arts as well as in maths and science.
"If you look at it, at the rate Singapore is going looking for talent, you want the best of both worlds — academic and talented. You have to sacrifice one. You cannot have the best of both worlds," she said.
Another parent said it would be a waste of taxpayers' money if a majority of the arts school graduates eventually pursued non Arts-related degrees.
"If you take very bright students who are very good at arts as well, how many of the bright students, who could do other things, would want to do the arts?
"I have friends trained as lawyers, bankers and successful accountants who are very good at the arts. If they had wanted to, they could have made a career out of it. But the fact is they just do it for fun. They would rather do what they are doing because it pays better."
While the arts school proposal calls for consideration of non Express stream students on a case-by-case basis, parents said it is skewed towards those who excel academically. The proposed arts school will offer a six-year academically demanding programme leading to the International Baccalaureate. — NewsRadio 93.8 -
not trying to be rude to viper bu
*yawn* nothing new... -
I know biz...nothing new, and not offence taken...but if we become apathetic and keep quiet, then those in the ivory towers will keep on assuming they're right.
Public outcry has already seen the change of some idiotic policies, and only if we continue, will more idiotic policies be confined to the trash bin of history. -
so.. RI and RJC and whatever bloody skool isn't?
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I agree wif Viper, govt only talks. I thought the aim of sports school or arts school shd be to help students develop other areas they are strong in(besides academic).. guess sg still cant get over its basis on meritocracy, no one 'dares' to make the 1st move.
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our society is pragmatic, no matter wat sports sch, arts sch.....the student still mus go through mainstream education up to at least O levels.......
we can oni call them full-times students, part-time athlete/artist
in china, the kids start training from 3-4yrs old...most are talent-spotted.....
they are to live in the sch hostel, follow a strict diet set by the nutritionist (yes, they employ such professionals!) according to wat sport they are doing, study for 3 hours a day (only) and the rest of the 9~12 hours are purely training and training and training......they dun need to sit for exams....
their parents get paid by the govt somemore.......
after their glorious days at the international games, most will be coaches for the new generation.........arbo the "pension" can let them live the rest of their lives (in china) like king and queen liao........ -
I'm not sure about the Sports area, but the Arts and Music option are also availible to those whom were not able to make it into the Art School.
Though there is still the 'at selected ... schools', at least the availibility of the option to the majority number in the Express stream will allow for a greater reach out to more interested students.
Read below extract:
The Art Elective (AEP) and Music Elective (MEP) Programmes, which started in 1984 and 1982 respectively, are offered to the academically able students with talents in art and music at selected secondary schools with Special and Express courses and selected junior colleges.
The aims of these programmes are to stretch these studentsÂ’ talents in art and music, and build a rich pool of artists and patrons for the promotion of arts education in Singapore.
Source: MOE Website.
http://www.moe.gov.sg/elective
http://www.moe.gov.sg/elective/AEP%20Brochure.pdf
http://www.moe.gov.sg/elective/MEP.pdf -
if you really wanted to be an artist, be it visual arts, performing arts or graphic arts, you don't really need an education. it might help, but passion is more important. it would be more beneficial to local artists to have an institute that nurtures their talent, rather than aim to give them a cert.
the art world is different from the business world, your qualification is in your portfolio, not your certification.
this is an interview with someone in the graphic arts world, but it applies equally to those in other arts.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115293At ILM, what matters most is that you can demonstrate you have the talent to do the job we're looking for. If I'm recruiting, and looking at animation demo reels, all I am looking for is 3D animation talent. We believe it's an easier thing to teach an animator a different software package than it is to teach them to animate.
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It hurts that the admission criteria aimed at the academically inclined. It's like killing the flower seeds which would one day, blossom into something beautiful and colourful. Looked like they just did.
They could look into other art schools in SG but considering they are privatised schools, the fees would be quite a demand for those financially handicapped.
And as mentioned by Nismo, a solid portfolio is a major consideration rather than a Certificate. If a senior position position is what they are looking for then experience counts. -
I dont think it should be for Express students only but the students should have good grades. In countries like US, England etc. the students are required to have a minimum grade or they are benched in sports or prevented from performence. It shows how important academics are.
To the example of the china students being scouted at 3-4 years old. Their lives are set on one path, and being 3-4 years old how many of them can say for certain "I want to be an artist, I want to be a sportsman." Its their parents making the choices for them. I agree with nismoS132 and the key phrase is "if you want to." That is why I would prefer an arts or sports school as a secondary school or jc. -
Hmmm.Originally posted by Guest009:I dont think it should be for Express students only but the students should have good grades. In countries like US, England etc. the students are required to have a minimum grade or they are benched in sports or prevented from performence. It shows how important academics are.
To the example of the china students being scouted at 3-4 years old. Their lives are set on one path, and being 3-4 years old how many of them can say for certain "I want to be an artist, I want to be a sportsman." Its their parents making the choices for them. I agree with nismoS132 and the key phrase is "if you want to." That is why I would prefer an arts or sports school as a secondary school or jc.
Actually, maybe the admission criteria should be relaxed and changed a little.
I believe that education plays an important role in moulding a person's character... or say, how a person thinks; how a person reacts, analyses and handles situations etc.
Perhaps there should be a certain test that students must pass before they are granted admission into the arts school - maybe something like the SAT, including tests on an individual's level of skills in a certain aspect of the arts.
Cos if the arts school admits students solely, or mostly based on their artistic ability, would the arts school eventually evolve into a dumping ground, where students (with a good level of artistic ability, but hardly any passion) believe they can head to if they do not succeed in the usual route of education?
This can actually bring down the standard and worsen the already-quite-bland arts scene in Singapore. -
seems like most view art as only nice decoration, don't you realise there's context in art too.
art also deals with social issues... you do need a level of knowledge to be able to understand and express them through art. -
So that's where the quotes from straits times came from. -
most people do not realise art also entails design. which means your fancy new ipod came from artists. as do stuff like new cars, buildings. too many people see art as just abstract paintings and doing sketches for people along street corners.
the starving artist image is too entrenched in people's minds. -
from what ghettojunkstar and nismo said.
since art isnt just drawing or performence, acadamics do play an important part. giving an example from music. Excluding those really talents musicians who can play by ear and amazing stuff like that, most musicians study music history, music theory, compositions and more. If a student cant do well in primary school math or language(basic stuff), how will they be able to cope with higher levels. -
the question is what kind of academic subjects?
art history, design history, perspectives, life observation skills, typography, materials, methods of execution. not science, maths, geography, history.
basic math, basic science, basic humanities, those would be helpful, but the emphasis on these subjects should not be as strong as the above listed.
the point of art and design is lateral thinking, to develope the young artists' minds to take mental routes others would usually not take. putting them into academia, and insisting that they excel in it like in other schools is just not feasible. -
Ai yo, they worry nect time if the artist is attending any presentation or ball, he can't present well in front of the media or ppl mah, later make S'pore malu how...
So, tats y u nd to be in express stream even though ur job is an artist.hoho -
Agree.Originally posted by nismoS132:most people do not realise art also entails design. which means your fancy new ipod came from artists. as do stuff like new cars, buildings. too many people see art as just abstract paintings and doing sketches for people along street corners.
the starving artist image is too entrenched in people's minds.
And to support these designs or concept creation, the students would have to learn how to make effective use of the relevant multimedia technologies availble, as well as keep in touch with industrial changes in such area.
And by the trend of modern art industry, animation or anime creation is anything but a sunset field to go into. -
i dont know much about artabout art. and i'm not saying they have to excel that is get As or top their classes.. but there has to be a minimum grade. PSLE 200 points is about 66 per subject. If a student cant understand the basic concepts of science, math and, language(whether its english or a second language) i doubt they will be able to understand the other stuff and they wouldnt be able to excel in whatever art field they are in. and history is actually imporant coz to be able to understand why an artist or musicians composed or designed what they did, the student must understand what that time period was like and major events during that time and so on.Originally posted by nismoS132:the question is what kind of academic subjects?
art history, design history, perspectives, life observation skills, typography, materials, methods of execution. not science, maths, geography, history.
basic math, basic science, basic humanities, those would be helpful, but the emphasis on these subjects should not be as strong as the above listed.
the point of art and design is lateral thinking, to develope the young artists' minds to take mental routes others would usually not take. putting them into academia, and insisting that they excel in it like in other schools is just not feasible.
the basics are not helpful, they are necessary. how can one observe something properly without knowing what it is and how can that person know what it is unless they learn about it. -
being from an arts school, i can tell you that, no, they are NOT necessary. in some ways it would help, but it is barely necessary.
having come from an engineering background, i found it easier to understand the concepts of 3 dimensions, multiple views and perspectives. but i've had classmates who either had no math background (ie. foreign students) or those with a poor foundation, but that doesn't mean they had it any harder than me. -
in a way u are right abt the dumping ground part but before long they will drop out.Originally posted by MooKu:Hmmm.
Actually, maybe the admission criteria should be relaxed and changed a little.
I believe that education plays an important role in moulding a person's character... or say, how a person thinks; how a person reacts, analyses and handles situations etc.
Perhaps there should be a certain test that students must pass before they are granted admission into the arts school - maybe something like the SAT, including tests on an individual's level of skills in a certain aspect of the arts.
Cos if the arts school admits students solely, or mostly based on their artistic ability, would the arts school eventually evolve into a dumping ground, where students (with a good level of artistic ability, but hardly any passion) believe they can head to if they do not succeed in the usual route of education? This can actually bring down the standard and worsen the already-quite-bland arts scene in Singapore.
i have seen classmates who simply cant be bothered to study and they repeat so many modules
actually i am quite bored and tired of my course.
anyway for 1 to successfully graduate frm the course, it takes more than just ability , it also requires passion.more accurately speaking, it requires self-discipline... -
i'm sorry then. like i said, i dont really know much about art.
for me personally, subjects like math and history has helped me alot. I have studied music for 6 years, but on music history and improvisation starting two years ago. And i found that i understood it much easier because i had prior knowledge from other classes in school. -
I think i agree in MOE only accepting Express stream students and allowing case-by-case basis for those who are lower. There must be some standard in accepting students into sports or arts school. Like it or not, nowadays pupiles in Normal academic or norman tech stream are really slow in the academic field and also not creative at all. And don't forget, arts isn't all about being good in drawing or painting skills, it's more then that. If you'd experiment more with ideas, maths and science have a lot of do with how art is presented so if they don't have a least a through understanding in these subjects, how you expect them to excel in an Arts school?
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And to add on to my previous post. As history would have it, accomplised artists were all deep thinkers. That's hardly what i see in pupils in NA or NT nowadays. Don't get me wrong, i'm not implying that there are many in Express stream, but there must be some sort of fixed criteria. If they change it now and view all applicants in a case-by-case basis into an arts school, again, people will question why some could go in and some couldn't.
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This is why I believe, that locals who CAN afford to send their childresn abroad for studies - be it in the arts or others - WILL continue to do so. So what, if there are not enough local talents in SIngapore? That's because the Education System in SIngapore. Not that we lack, it's just the filering policies that stands in the way.
I think, as with all govbernment related issues, no amount of complain or grumbling will change the way they want to do things. It only takes consequences to open their eyes.
If they think they can acquire the best of both worlds, then let them find out the hard way.
Carry on with the elitist's way of doing things, and Singapore will continue to bleed talent to other countries.
Personally, I'd rather send my kid abroad for arts. Arts here especially in music, is all about copying styles. Nothing orginal. Look at our local programs; they follow whatever America produces. Apart from PCK Pte Ltd, the rest are simply PATHETIC.
The recent Incredible Stories about ghosts and true stories; the acting is so MISERABLE!!!! Though the story line seems ok, where did the actors get their training from????
Only person I salute, is Gurmit Singh.
So if Art Schools wanna be elitist, let them be. Things will eventually change.