Polytehnics a Class Below JCs ??????
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The main visible disadvantages of being a poly student over a JC as far as I can see is that :Originally posted by frank_person:hmm. in what way is a poly student a class below jc students? I dun quite get it.
1) JC students are often more highly considered for scholarships, and
2) JC students are being allocated a great number of seats in the local universities.
Otherwise, there really isn't much difference in the intellectual capabilites between students from either camp. -
Actually go poly go JC really depend on the person himself. if you those type that sian of normal curriculum (the ones from primary to secondary schools) like me, I would rather go poly then to face 2 more years of books that I don't like,
And 'A' level cert really not much use, what can you do with the cert, be teacher? At least go poly get diploma come out maybe still can get job. Early come out, early get job, you know what your job requires then go study uni better than waste don't know how many years studying in uni, come out, find that what you study has little relevance to your job and have to go upgrade yourself again.
Go poly lousier than those who go JC. I don't think that's all true. Some go poly ones actually quite good in studies just they don't like JCs or something else. If you only know how to study but don't know how to work or think because I have a degree I want $3000 per month for my starting pay, who will want to employ you ?
Just my 2 cents. -
hmm, someone here to offer a suggestion on how to develop a system of giving JC and poly students equal opportunity to get to Uni? Maybe put more weightage on stuff like d SATS to have equal oppportunities? but then its still quite complicated, poly students can skip 1 year for some uni course, JC students need to feel that their A lvls is worth their while, alot of things to factor in..Originally posted by JeffQuek:Also, y haven't the gov thought of relaxing the uni criteria even more ? Poly grads may be less academically gifted..but that doesn't means tt they are less gifted practically right ?.. Many Poly grads yearn to get into local uni But the criteria for poly grads to enter uni isn't flavourable for them at all... top 5 - 10% i think... Issit fair for them not being able to enter uni because they are less academically abled BUT practically gifted ???
Today in Chn i's "i contact", mr Tharman talked ab singapore wanting different types of students... i presumed that he meant having this 2 types of students: 1) academically gifted, 2)practically gifted... So y can't the gov allow more poly grads to make it into uni then ? since they have the intentions to develop "different types" of students ? right ?
Ppl do have ur says
Also, Singapore economy can only absorb a fixed number of uni grad. While we want to be fair to poly students, we must also realise that if a JC students does not make it to Uni after JC, he would prob hafta go poly anyway cos his choices are VERY limited after graduating from JC. so the consequences of NOT going to Uni for jc students is much higher than it is for poly students.
my two cents... -
i agree with laser on the last few points that to sum it up, if JC kids dont make it to uni, they are basically screwed in life.
Lets address the fundamentals to this issue.
Lets go back say 30 yrs. back then with a cambridge A levels you could get a job in the british civil service or govt sector or what have we and that ws a good social standing. and basically we have the rest of not even O levels, like my dad. But back then it was alright, cos our economy was not high tech, knowledge based. So as we turned into a manufacturing country in the growing years, there was a lack of technically skilled workers. So it was bad. and LKY tot, hey lets set up polytechnics. hence we have got Singa Poly.
fast forward today. in our increasing affluent country. we talk about a knowledge based economy. And hey, people didnt choose Jc because english no good chinese no etc and various reasons like uniform very ugly and stuff. But when they graduate they think, hey why am i not offered places in uni? why is the class enrollment so disproportionate? Some went overseas. they couldnt afford to do so or had less than the required results complained hence this forum and the revamp.
i have no pro JC agenda here. but let us remember the original Aim of poly, which is to man the economy with technically skilled people.
as in the ST forum, people chase that degree for various reasons, as such the economy have to wait for a nother 2-3 yrs for this people to graduate. i dont think its wrong, but remember the AIM?(if you want yu can personnaly msg me and i'll explain to you why going poly and then Uni is not cost effective as seen in the eyes of the Govt)
Next, remember there are those cases of those barely making it to JC. this are the people who take the greater risk. And i dare say this group struggles in JC while they might be better students in a poly. And hey they re taking a greater risk than those scholar, for them if their results suck, it means they retain, go poly, go overseas and stuff.
So for those who go to poly and later want to go Uni, either get exceptional grades in Poly (i do know a few). Or go to a JC. As it is there is grade inflation with each batch of A levels getting more str8 As compared to previous batch. And If we expand university enrollment (assuming people dont go work overseas), it cheapens the degree. Ultimately, everyone loses (lower average incomes)and therefore we must maintain the integrity of the university education. -
As you have well pointed out, our educational system is so messed up that we are sending the wrong people to all the wrong places.
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many years ago...i've been to JC for 3 months. very hectic and felt like everything is spoon fed. Then I went to Ngee Ann Poly, became independant and technologically inclined...got into university direct 2nd year.
they are all the same except that going to poly, then to uni, you got 2 tertiary education subsidies from government instead of one. -
I wouldnÂ’t say that our educational system is all messed up.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:As you have well pointed out, our educational system is so messed up that we are sending the wrong people to all the wrong places.
Rather, I think we have been very successful in achieving what we have been trying to do – that is to train and mass produce engineers, lawyers, doctors and accountants out by the thousands.
And we have so been successful in doing that, until recently did we then suddenly realized that for those who’s preference does not lie in the so-called ‘mainstream’ faction, we do not know what to with them, and how best to develop their other potential and interests into full play that can exist in cordial and complementation together with the mainstream. -
i agree that most poly student are practically trained than jc students .. but it's pointless to compare them .. jc is juz a stepping stone for the student to go into university .. they r not yet expose to the "real" world .. no point comparing them when they are at different phases of their life ... in my opinion .. if u realli wanna compare .. compare their achievements when their career reach the peak, at the age of 35-40 ...
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But do u know that many jc students, upon graduating from uni, they are juz as good if not better than many poly students "practically", and plus their "good brains and good speaking", hence in the end they make better workers... Of cos there are some jc students who will still suck after graduating from uni, but let's talk about the general case rather than the minority few... I agree that comparing a diploma with an A-level cert, a diploma is definitely of much more value.Originally posted by JeffQuek:yap, kopiosatu is right...many singaporeans, sad to say, are thinking that JC grads are those "high flyers"... they are the ones who are ACadEmically smarter... BUT true facts in reality... if one is just gd academically and not practically .... What can they contribute to the society..??? JCs grads, ppl with good brains and good speaker..., can they earn big bucks just by rote-learning and speaking goobledegook ? certainly not right... but y many singaporeans mindset is still thinking that poly grads are second class compared to JCs's grads... -
I fully agree with u on thatOriginally posted by claud:generally if u do well in polys.. ur chances of going into U is equally high to JCs students.. like wisely, if u cant perform well in JCs, u will either end up in polys or starting a working life already
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one more point form me..
we've been so successful churning out u-grads that the govt applauds ppl that take jobs below their what their educational qualifications would actually allow them to take... like some grads who become a coffinmaker, hawker, etc...
my point is, why get ppl to go to uni, then applaud those who come out and seek work below what they can do? waste of money, waste of time.
and does this show that our education has to be geared even more strictly to the demands of our economy for more technically trained workers? -
here's my perspective. i graduated from sec sch last year. decideding whether to go to a good poly course i've been eyeing for a long time, or to a good jc was a real pain. i eventually went the poly route. reasons being, in poly, i learn what i liked, and felt could do better. poly is not as stressed and high paced as a jc. with a diploma, i could go and work immediatly after ns or graduation, and save up money for a degree overseas.
i spoke to a few of my r/c flying buddies. they're all managers in their own respective trades. they were telling me they'd rather hire a diploma holder than a degree holder. i was told that, in their eyes, both are almost equally qualified. the only reason is that degree holders cost more to hire and are typically more "big-headed". yeah i know this is only a small percentage of ppl, but it gives you an idea of what some ppl think nowadays.
all along, my father has always told me to go to a jc, as it is better. recently, i met up with some of my old classmates. they kept telling me that they could not cope with their jcs. i asked if they considered going to a poly. they simply said, no choice, parents force me to go jc. kinda feel sad for them to suffer for their parent's outdated mindsets.
and the case that good people go to jcs only is not true. in fact, its the opposite. from what i see in my school, many ace students choose to go to a poly(including my gf and me). most who go to a jc are those whose L1R5 is at the 18-20 range. their reason was mainly because with their points they could not enter a poly choice of their course, so they went to jc. even the course i'm in have many many single-digit scorers.
in my personal opinion, polytechnics are not a class below jcs. they are in fact on par, and in some cases, better than a jc. the main reason some ppl still think so is due to outdated thinking. no doubt that a degree would certainly be better than a diploma, but going to jc doesn't mean an easier route to uni.(only 75% of middle-level jc students make it to uni, from JAE statistics).