Palestinian terrorists assassinated
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So, what do you guys think?
Hamas and the Palestinians murder innocent people, trying to target Israeli civilians, in their carbombs, suicide bombs and other acts of mindless violence, no one condemns them and no one bats an eyelid.
Israel targets leaders of Hamas and other terrorists groups (whose STATED objectives is the destruction of Israel) and blow them up. And they get condemned.
Is something wrong here?
Terrorists and their leaders can be tolerated?
But hitting out on the terrorists is not?
What is the priority here? -
they do get condemmed
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terrorist hitting terrorist you mean?
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i wonder about Israel being called "terrorists"...
it's hard to deal with people like the PLO whose manifesto is the total destruction of the country you tried to share with them, even when they had no claim to it...
oh well.. remember this: about a couple of years ago, they gave the PLO everything they demanded, but Arafat started the Intifadah instead..
terrorists? then bloody condemn BOTH sides!!Originally posted by StayFocus:terrorist hitting terrorist you mean? -
for the palestinians, no one really voice their violent condemations towards their actions? uncle sam? brits? swedish? germans? . given a choice, would any race resort to violence? were they treated fairly?
who were the ones to place the jews in the piece of land they call israel today? who were the ones that deprive the palestinians the chance to compete on a fair level? if one race were to say singapore is their holy land and if the americans say they have the right to share half our island wif them, how would u feel?
they, the HAMAS, were not a terrorist establishment when it jus started out. they were formed to fight for a cause for the people of palestine. after fighting for their right to their land, were their pleas garb any serious attention at the highest level? i would put it as they, HAMAS, were forced to evolve.
i condemn any acts of terrorism.
all that they have done, car bombing and sending suicide bombers into crowded places are all wrong. and they should be condemned for the various actions they take . i condemn the HAMAS now. they have taken things too far but if i had to say who's right who's wrong, i would say both are terrorists.
american should do more things to help the situation there than to openly support israel. do they care abt peace? i dun so.Originally posted by the Bear:So, what do you guys think?
Hamas and the Palestinians murder innocent people, trying to target Israeli civilians, in their carbombs, suicide bombs and other acts of mindless violence, no one condemns them and no one bats an eyelid.
Israel targets leaders of Hamas and other terrorists groups (whose STATED objectives is the destruction of Israel) and blow them up. And they get condemned.
Is something wrong here?
Terrorists and their leaders can be tolerated?
But hitting out on the terrorists is not?
What is the priority here? -
Sun Yat Sen started off with car bombings and assasination of powerful Qing ministers before the revolution
What else can they do ? -
i dun take sides here, but there's always 2 sides to a coin. from my experience, i've learned that we should never believe 100% of everything that we hear or see on TV or from other people and never trust the ABCs, the americans, Brits and Communists. all are equally bad.
here's a bit of history on the Palestine.
(again i dig this out somewhere but i was unable to quote you the exact source/s but if my memory didn't fail me, it should be related to a certain official or quasi-governmental websites on either the HAMAS or the State of Palestine.)
3'rd millennium BC :
The Canaanites were the earliest known inhabitants of Palestine. They became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which was Jericho . They developed an alphabet. Palestine's location at the center of routes linking three continents made it the meeting place for religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, and Asia Minor. It was also the natural battleground for the great powers of the region and subject to domination by adjacent empires, beginning with Egypt in the 3d millennium BC.
2'ND MILLENNIUM BC
2'rd millennium BC : Egyptian hegemony and Canaanite autonomy were constantly challenged by such ethnically diverse invaders as the Amorites, Hittites, and Hurrians. These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200000.
14th century BC : Egyptian power began to weaken, new invaders appeared: the Hebrews, a group of Semitic tribes from Mesopotamia, and the Philistines (after whom the country was later named), an Aegean people of Indo-European stock.
1230 BC : Joshua conquered parts of Palestine. The conquerors settled in the hill country, but they were unable to conquer all of Palestine.
1125 BC : The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated the Canaanites but found the struggle with the Philistines more difficult . Philistines had established an independent state on the southern coast of Palestine and controlled the Canaanite town of Jerusalem.
1050 BC : Philistines with there superior in military organization and using iron weapons, they severely defeated the Israelites about 1050 BC .
1'ST MILLENNIUM BC
1000 BC : David, Israel's great king, finally defeated the Philistines, and they eventually assimilated with the Canaanites . The unity of Israel and the feebleness of adjacent empires enabled David to establish a large independent state, with its capital at Jerusalem.
922 BC : Under David's son and successor, Solomon, Israel enjoyed peace and prosperity , but at his death in 922 BC the kingdom was divided into Israel in the north and Judah in the south .
722-721 BC : When nearby empires resumed their expansion, the divided Israelites could no longer maintain their independence . Israel fell to Assyria.
586 BC : Judah was conquered by Babylonia, which destroyed Jerusalem and exiled most of the Jews living there. Nebuchadnezzar entered Jerusalem. The Temple was sacked and set fire to, and razed to the ground. The Royal Palace and all the great houses were destroyed, the population carried off in chains to Babylon. And they lamented on their long march into exile.
539 BC : Cyrus the Great of Persia conquered Babylonia and he permitted the Jews to return to Judea, a district of Palestine. Under Persian rule the Jews were allowed considerable autonomy. They rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem and codified the Mosaic law, the Torah, which became the code of social life and religious observance. The Jews were bound to a universal God.
333 BC : Persian domination of Palestine was replaced by Greek rule when Alexander the Great of Macedonia took the region. Alexander's successors, the Ptolemies of Egypt and the Seleucids of Syria , continued to rule the country . The Seleucids tried to impose Hellenistic (Greek) culture and religion on the population.
141-63 BC : Jews revolted under the Maccabees and set up an independent state.
132-35 BC : Jews revolts erupted, numerous Jews were killed, many were sold into slavery, and the rest were not allowed to visit Jerusalem. Judea was renamed Syria Palaistina.
63 BC : Jerusalem was overrun by Rome. Herod was appointed King of Judea. He slaughtered the last of the Hasmoneans and ordered a lavish restoration and extension of the Second Temple. A period of great civil disorder followed with strife between pacifists and Zealots, and riots against the Roman authorities.
37-4 BC : During the rule of King Herod the Great Jesus of Nazareth, peace be upon him was born. And years after, he began his teaching mission. His attempts to call people back to the pure teachings of Abraham and Moses were judged subversive by the authorities. He was tried and sentenced to death; "yet they did not slay him but only a likeness that was shown to them."
1-999 AD
70 AD : Titus of Rome laid siege to Jerusalem. The fiercely defended Temple eventually fell, and with it the whole city. Seeking a complete and enduring victory, Titus ordered the total destruction of the Herodian Temple. A new city named Aelia was built by the Romans on the ruins of Jerusalem, and a temple dedicated to Jupitor raised up.
313 AD : Palestine received special attention when the Roman emperor Constantine I legalized Christianity. His mother, Helena, visited Jerusalem, and Palestine, as the Holy Land, became a focus of Christian pilgrimage. A golden age of prosperity, security, and culture followed. Most of the population became Hellenized and Christianized .
324 AD : Constantine of Byzantium marched on Aelia. He rebuilt the city walls and commissioned the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and opened the city for Christian pilgrimage.
29-614 AD : Byzantine (Roman) rule was interrupted , however , by a brief Persian occupation and ended altogether when Muslim Arab armies invaded Palestine and captured Jerusalem in AD 638 .
638 AD : The Arab conquest began 1300 years of Muslim presence in what then became known as Filastin. Eager to be rid of their Byzantine overlords and aware of their shared heritage with the Arabs, the descendants of Ishmael, as well as the Muslims reputation for mercy and compassion in victory, the people of Jerusalem handed over the city after a brief siege. They made only one condition, That the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with the Khalif 'Umar in person. 'Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their goods. Those who wanted to stay were guarantee protection for their lives, their property and places of worship.
Palestine was holy to Muslims because the Prophet Muhammad had designated Jerusalem as the first qibla (the direction Muslims face when praying) and because he was believed to have ascended on a night journey to heaven from the the old city of Jerusalem (al-Aqsa Mosque today) , where the Dome of the Rock was later built. Jerusalem became the third holiest city of Islam. The Muslim rulers did not force their religion on the Palestinians, and more than a century passed before the majority converted to Islam. The remaining Christians and Jews were considered People of the Book. They were allowed autonomous control in their communities and guaranteed security and freedom of worship. Such tolerance was rare in the history of religion . Most Palestinians also adopted Arabic and Islamic culture. Palestine benefited from the empires trade and from its religious significance during the first Muslim dynasty, the Umayyads of Damascus.
750 AD : The power shifted to Baghdad with the Abbasids, Palestine became neglected. It suffered unrest and successive domination by Seljuks, Fatimids, and European Crusaders. It shared, however, in the glory of Muslim civilization, when the Muslim world enjoyed a golden age of science, art, philosophy, and literature. Muslims preserved Greek learning and broke new ground in several fields, all of which later contributed to the Renaissance in Europe. Like the rest of the empire, however, Palestine under the Mamelukes gradually stagnated and declined.
1000-1899 AD
1517 AD : The Ottoman Turks of Asia Minor defeated the Mamelukes, with few interruptions, ruled Palestine until the winter of 1917-18. The country was divided into several districts (sanjaks), such as that of Jerusalem. The administration of the districts was placed largely in the hands of Arab Palestinians, who were descendants of the Canaanites. The Christian and Jewish communities, however, were allowed a large measure of autonomy. Palestine shared in the glory of the Ottoman Empire during the 16th century, but declined again when the empire began to decline in the 17th century.
1831-1840 AD : Muhammad Ali, the modernizing viceroy of Egypt, expanded his rule to Palestine . His policies modified the feudal order, increased agriculture, and improved education.
1840 The Ottoman Empire reasserted its authority, instituting its own reforms .
1845 Jewish in Palestine were 12,000 increased to 85,000 by 1914. All people in Palestine were Arabic Muslims and Christians.
1897 the first Zionist Congress held Basle, Switzerland, issued the Basle programme on the colonization of Palestine.
1900-1946
1904 the Fourth Zionist Congress decided to establish a national home for Jews in Argentina.
1906 the Zionist congress decided the Jewish homeland should be Palestine.
1914 With the outbreak of World War I, Britain promised the independence of Arab lands under Ottoman rule, including Palestine, in return for Arab support against Turkey which had entered the war on the side of Germany.
1916 Britain and France signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned to France, Jordan and Iraq to Britain and Palestine was to be internationalized.
1917 The British government issued the Balfour Declaration on November 2, in the form of a letter to a British Zionist leader from the foreign secretary Arthur J. Balfour prmissing him the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine.
1917-1918 Aided by the Arabs, the British captured Palestine from the Ottoman Turks. The Arabs revolted against the Turks because the British had promised them, in correspondence with Shareef Husein ibn Ali of Mecca, the independence of their countries after the war. Britain, however, also made other, conflicting commitments in the secret Sykes-Picot agreement with France and Russia (1916), it promised to divide and rule the region with its allies. In a third agreement, the Balfour Declaration of 1917, Britain promised the Jews a Jewish "national home" in Palestine .
1918 After WW I ended, Jews began to migrate to Palestine, which was set a side as a British mandate with the approval of the League of Nations in 1922. Large-scale Jewish settlement and extensive Zionist agricultural and industrial enterprises in Palestine began during the British mandatory period, which lasted until 1948.
1919 The Palestinians convened their first National Conference and expressed their opposition to the Balfour Declaration.
1920 The San Remo Conference granted Britain a mandate over Palestine. and two years later Palestine was effectively under British administration. Sir Herbert Samuel, a declared Zionist, was sent as Britain's first High Commissioner to Palestine.
1922 The Council of the League of Nations issued a Mandate for Palestine.
1929 Large-scale attacks on Jews by Arabs rocked Jerusalem. Palestinians killed 133 Jews and suffered 116 deaths. Sparked by a dispute over use of the Western Wall of Al-Aqsa Mosque ( this site is sacred to Muslims, but Jews claimed it is the remaining of jews temple all studies shows clearly that the wall is from the Islamic ages and it is part of al-Aqsa Mosque). But the roots of the conflict lay deeper in Arab fears of the Zionist movement which aimed to make at least part of British-administered Palestine a Jewish state.
1936 The Palestinians held a six-month General Strike to protest against the confiscation of land and Jewish immigration.
1937 Peel Commission, headed by Lord Robert Peel, issued a report. Basically, the commission concluded, the mandate in Palestine was unworkable There was no hope of any cooperative national entity there that included both Arabs and Jews. The commission went on to recommend the partition of Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a neutral sacred-site state to be administered by Britain.
1939 The British government published a White Paper restricting Jewish immigration and offering independence for Palestine within ten years. This was rejected by the Zionists, who then organized terrorist groups and launched a bloody campaign against the British and the Palestinians.
1947-1966
1947 Great Britain decided to leave Palestine and called on the United Nations (UN) to make recommendations. In response, the UN convened its first special session and on November 29, 1947, it adopted a plan calling for partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem as an international zone under UN jurisdiction.
1947 Arab protests against partition erupted in violence, with attacks on Jewish settlements in retalation to the attacks of Jews terrorist groups to Arab Towns and villages and massacres in hundred against unarmed Palestinian in there homes.
15 May 1948 British decided to leave on this day, leaders of the Yishuv decided (as they claim) to implement that part of the partition plan calling for establishment of a Jewish state. The same day, the armies of Egypt, Transjordan (now Jordan), Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq joined Palestinian and other Arab guerrillas in a full-scale war (first Arab-Israeli War). The Arabs failed to prevent establishment of a Jewish state, and the war ended with four UN-arranged armistice agreements between Israel and Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria.
The small Gaza Strip was left under Egyptian control, and the West Bank was controled by Jordan.
Of the more than 800,000 Arabs who lived in Israeli-held territory before 1948, only about 170,000 remained. The rest became refugees in the surrounding Arab countries, ending the Arab majority in the Jewish state.
1956 Attckes incursions by refugee guerrilla bands and attacks by Arab military units were made, Egypt refused to permit Israeli ships to use the Suez Canal and blockaded the Straits of Tiran erupted in the second Arab-Israeli War.
Great Britain and France joined the attack because of their dispute with Egypt's president Gamal Abdel Nasser, who had nationalized the Suez Canal. Seizing the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula within few days. The fighting was halted by the UN after a few days, and a UN Emergency Force (UNEF) was sent to supervise the cease-fire in the Canal zone. By the end of the year their forces withdrew from Egypt, but Israel refused to leave Gaza until early 1957.
1965 The Palestine Liberation Organization was established.
1967-1989
1967 Nasser's insistence in 1967 that the UNEF leave Egypt, led Israel to attack Egypt, Jordan, and Syria simultaneously on 5th of June.
The war ended six days later with an Israeli victory. Israel occuiped Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula, Arab East Jerusalem, West Bank, Golan Heights.
After 1967 war, several guerrilla organizations within the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) carried out guerrillas attacks on Israeli miletary targets, with the stated objective of "redeeming Palestine."
1973 Egypt joined Syria in a war on Israel to regain the territories lost in 1967. The two Arab states struck unexpectedly on October 6. After crossing the suez channel the Arab forces gain a lot of advanced positions in Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights and manage to defeat the Israeli forces for more then three weeks. Israeli forces with a massive U.S. economic and military assistance managed to stop the arab forces after a three-week struggle. The Arab oil-producing states cut off petroleum exports to the United States and other Western nations in retaliation for their aid to Israel.
In an effort to encourage a peace settlement, U.S. secretary of state, Henry Kissinger, managed to work out military disengagements between Israel and Egypt in the Sinai and between Israel and Syria in the Golan Heights during 1974.
1974 The Arab Summit in Rabat recognized the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.
1982 Israel launched an invasion of Lebanon aimed at wiping out the PLO presence there. By mid-August, after intensive fighting in and around Bayrut, the PLO agreed to withdraw its guerrillas from the city. Israeli troops remained in southern Lebanon.
1987 Relations between Israel and the Palestinians entered a new phase with the intifada, a series of uprisings in the occupied territories that included demonstrations, strikes, and rock-throwing attacks on Israeli soldiers.
1988 The PNC meeting in Algiers declared the State of Palestine as outlined in the UN Partition Plan 181.
1990-2000
1990 Yasser Arafat addressed the UN Security Council In Geneva demanding UN emergency force to provide international protection for the Palestinian people to safeguard their lives, properties and holy places.
1991 The first comprehensive peace talks between Israel and delegations representing the Palestinians and neighboring Arab states
1993 Israel deported 415 Palestinian men to a buffer zone in southern Lebanon. The deported Palestinians were said by Israeli authorities to be active members of the militant Islamic resistance movement Hamas.
1993 Aftersecret negotiations, PM Rabin and PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat signed an historic peace agreement. Israel agreed to allow for Palestinian self-rule, first in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank town of Jericho, and later in other areas of the West Bank.
Feb 1994 An American-born Jewish settler in Hebron, Baruch Goldstein, opened fire in al-Haran al-ebrahime crowded mosque, killing 29 Muslims and wounding 150 more.
May 1994 In Cairo - Egypt, Yasser Arafat, and Yitzhak Rabin, signed the final version of the Declaration of Principles. Within 24 hours of the signing, Israeli military forces were scheduled to leave the Gaza Strip and Jericho.
July 1994 Yasser Arafat returned to Palestine.
Oct 1994 The Nobel Committee in Oslo, Norway, announced that the peace prize was being awarded to Israel's Foreign Minister Shimon Peres and Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, and to Yasser Arafat.
Jan. 1995 Martyr bombs kills 19 in Israel.
April 1995 Six killed in Gaza Martyr bombing.
July 1995 Martyr bomb in Tel Avivi.
Aug. 1995 Martyr bomber kills five in Jerusalem.
Sept. 1995 Israeli and PLO officials meeting in Taba, Egypt, finalized agreement on the second stage of eventual Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian lands. Special arrangements were agreed upon for Hebron, where Israeli soldiers will remain to protect the 450 Jewish settlers living there.
Nov. 1995 Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, was assassinated in Tel Aviv by a right-wing extremist.
Jan. 1996 PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat elected Presendant of the Palestinian National Authority.
June 1996 Right-wing Likud Party leader, Benjamin Netanyahu become the new Prime Minister of Israel.
June 1996 Arab summit discuss the new Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's peace plans.
Dec. 1996 Israeli authorities release plans to expand the Jewish settlements in Arab east Jerusalem, which causes outrage among Palestinians.
Jan. 1997 Israel and the Palestinian Authority reached an agreement for an Israeli redeployment from the West Bank city of Hebron.
Oct. 1997 Sheik Ahmed Yassin (61-year-old) founder of the militant Islamic group Hamas was released from Israeli prison, as part of a prisoner swap touched off by a failed Israeli assassination attempt in Amman, the capital of Jordan.
Oct. 1998 Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat signed at peace-for-land agreement at the conclusion of negotiations in the U.S. the agreement calls for Israel to relinquish control of portions of the West Bank in return for active measures to be taken by Palestinians against terrorism.
Nov.1998 Palestinian President Yasser Arafat inaugurated Gaza International Airport.
Dec. 1998 President Clinton stood witness as hundreds of Palestinian leaders renounced a call for the destruction of Israel. Clinton urged "legitimate rights for Palestinians, real security for Israel."
May 1999 Winning a crushing victory over hard-line Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Ehud Barak promised to forge a secure peace with the Palestinians, pull troops out of Lebanon in a year and heal the deep divisions among Israelis.
Sep. 1999 An agreement has been reached with Israel concerning the release of Palestinian prisoners. Such release was a major point of contention in negotiations concerning the implementation of the Wye River peace accord.
Oct.1999 Israel and the Palestinians agreed to establish the first open land link between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip so-called "safe passage".
Mar.2000 Kissing Palestinian earth and warmly welcomed byYasser Arafat, Pope John Paul II made a prayerful pilgrimage to the town of Jesus' birth. -
maybe the 2 sides deserve each other....
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were they given everything they need?
if israel wanted peace, they should comply with International law and to UN resolutions related to the Arab-Israeli conflict (194, 242 and others), which consider the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands in stolen 1967 as illegal, stipulating Israel must end it's occupation.
By ending the occupation and solving the issues caused by it, such as Palestinian refugees issue and the issue of Israel settlement in West Bank and Gaza Strip, and giving the Palestinian there legitimate right to rule themselves in their own country, to decide for themselves, to take care of there own future and to have their FREEDOM. was it ever granted, they were just being 'entertained' by the americans and israelis.
and on the point on Intifadah, pardon mi bear, the relations between Israel and the palestinians entered a new phase in the late 1987 with the Intifada, a series of uprisings in the occupied territories that included demonstrations, strikes, and rock-throwing attacks on Israeli soldiers .
Israel responded by sending crack troopers in and launching majot attacks on palestine. and how in the eyes of god are thousands of innocent palestinians women and children considered collateral damages?
The harsh response by the Israeli government drew criticism from both the United States and the UN.
The uprising began Dec 1987 in the Gaza Strip. Rumours that a fatal traffic collision had been caused by Israeli security service agents in retaliation for the stabbing of an Israeli the previous week led to demonstrations by teenagers armed with slingshots. It subsequently spread, despite attempts at repression. Some 1,300 Palestinians and 80 Israelis were killed in the uprising up to the end of 1991. Many Palestinian private homes were dynamited by military order. they were forced by circumstances to put up a armed struggle.
they started the Intifadah, but was it even an armed conflict?
if we were to say who were right or wrong, it would be same as asking whether egg came first or chicken first.
innocents palestinians women and children killed by armed israeli, suicide bombers killing innocent israelis.Originally posted by the Bear:i wonder about Israel being called "terrorists"...
it's hard to deal with people like the PLO whose manifesto is the total destruction of the country you tried to share with them, even when they had no claim to it...
oh well.. remember this: about a couple of years ago, they gave the PLO everything they demanded, but Arafat started the Intifadah instead..
terrorists? then bloody condemn BOTH sides!! -
Do u know where is the most populated place in the world?
Not Tokyo,Spore or Monaco but WEST BANK! 1.3 milion palestinian cram in a area smaller than spore with no high rise building to house them! Thet will all drive out by the israeli from their home and relocate at West bank. Can u image their living condition! -
Originally posted by foga:
I dont think the fighting will end even when Israel give in to the palestinian what they want. Those neighbouring countries whose lands was taken by the Israel in previous war will see it as a chance to demand those land back. Dont think Israel will wanna go into that kind of situation.
were they given everything they need?
if israel wanted peace, they should comply with International law and to UN resolutions related to the Arab-Israeli conflict (194, 242 and others), which consider the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands in stolen 1967 as illegal, stipulating Israel must end it's occupation.
By ending the occupation and solving the issues caused by it, such as Palestinian refugees issue and the issue of Israel settlement in West Bank and Gaza Strip, and [b]giving the Palestinian there legitimate right to rule themselves in their own country, to decide for themselves, to take care of there own future and to have their FREEDOM. was it ever granted, they were just being 'entertained' by the americans and israelis. [/b] -
maybe they should just lock the maniacs of Hamas, Arafat, Sharon and his cronies in a steel cage and let them decide..
there is no right in this whole sorry mess...
i tend to look at the current situation now...
indiscriminate murder of women and children in marketplaces with pointless suicide bombings?
vs
murder of the people who perpetrate and promote senseless suicide bombings?
which is worse?
who knows?
also i think of this: why is it that Arafat, with a personal wealth of about US$3 billion, and a family in the French Riviera, doesn't do anything to improve the lot of his people? and, where the hell did he get his US$3 billion from? some have said it was corruption, and his squeezing of his own people as he has monopoly of all trade in "his territory"...
yet, he's their president?
oh well...
it's a sad sorry state...
now, again, i find double standards.. condemnation of Israel, yet when nailbombs strapped to the chests of youths go off, no one bats an eyelid...
sad sad sad.
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fighting would never stop if they dun take sincere actions to prove that they want peace.Originally posted by Bochupi:I dont think the fighting will end even when Israel give in to the palestinian what they want. Those neighbouring countries whose lands was taken by the Israel in previous war will see it as a chance to demand those land back. Dont think Israel will wanna go into that kind of situation.
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I don't agree with what u say.Don't u all remember there was almost peace when prime minister Yitzhak Rabin agree most of the palestinian demand,return Golan Height and legalise PLO.Remember the famous handshake of Arafat,Clinton and Rabin at Washington. There were peace throughout that period. No bombing,no killing.Originally posted by Bochupi:I dont think the fighting will end even when Israel give in to the palestinian what they want. Those neighbouring countries whose lands was taken by the Israel in previous war will see it as a chance to demand those land back. Dont think Israel will wanna go into that kind of situation.
It was only when PM Rabin killed by some israeli fanatics and breach of the peace settlement by new israeli government that sucide and bloodshed began. Why can't they return to the period under PM Rabin? I know it's hard but at least they try and proven it can be done. it just selfish thinking of some radical group that stop peace process! -
got peace meh? Dont think there's peace in Israel ever since they declare independence. Their neighbouring countries are just waiting for them to fall only....Originally posted by zenden9:I don't agree with what u say.Don't u all remember there was almost peace when prime minister Yitzhak Rabin agree most of the palestinian demand,return Golan Height and legalise PLO.Remember the famous handshake of Arafat,Clinton and Rabin at Washington. There were peace throughout that period. No bombing,no killing.
It was only when PM Rabin killed by some israeli fanatics and breach of the peace settlement by new israeli government that sucide and bloodshed began. Why can't they return to the period under PM Rabin? I know it's hard but at least they try and proven it can be done. it just selfish thinking of some radical group that stop peace process! -
Got! Got peace under PM Rabin but not under PM Sharon!
If they continue PM Rabin policy if will not turn out this way! -
okay.. what do you think about this:
Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan. -
Sharon is a bit aggressive in his policy lah. Arafat to me is a weak leader too...think he's losing control over his own men or he's closing both his eyes to what his people is doing. Suicide bombing on innocent people is really sickening....they say they are targetting Israel military personnel but they never think that it'll affect all those nearby too. I dont understand why Israel wanna kill Hamas leaders too. you kill one, another will just take over his place, how much more you r gonna kill b4 you stop?Originally posted by zenden9:Got! Got peace under PM Rabin but not under PM Sharon!
If they continue PM Rabin policy if will not turn out this way! -
Originally posted by foga:
Ahh and you would be wrong here.....because a certain PM Barak offered Arafat a deal where in 3-5 years Israel would have a complete pull out and return to the 1948 status if the PLO would declare to stop all attacks instantly!Guess what?Arafat said NO!!Said Israel could not exist at all and all lands are to be returned......the rest we know is history.
were they given everything they need?
if israel wanted peace, they should comply with International law and to UN resolutions related to the Arab-Israeli conflict (194, 242 and others), which consider the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands in stolen 1967 as illegal, stipulating Israel must end it's occupation.
By ending the occupation and solving the issues caused by it, such as Palestinian refugees issue and the issue of Israel settlement in West Bank and Gaza Strip, and [b]giving the Palestinian there legitimate right to rule themselves in their own country, to decide for themselves, to take care of there own future and to have their FREEDOM. was it ever granted, they were just being 'entertained' by the americans and israelis.
and on the point on Intifadah, pardon mi bear, the relations between Israel and the palestinians entered a new phase in the late 1987 with the Intifada, a series of uprisings in the occupied territories that included demonstrations, strikes, and rock-throwing attacks on Israeli soldiers .
Israel responded by sending crack troopers in and launching majot attacks on palestine. and how in the eyes of god are thousands of innocent palestinians women and children considered collateral damages?
The harsh response by the Israeli government drew criticism from both the United States and the UN.
The uprising began Dec 1987 in the Gaza Strip. Rumours that a fatal traffic collision had been caused by Israeli security service agents in retaliation for the stabbing of an Israeli the previous week led to demonstrations by teenagers armed with slingshots. It subsequently spread, despite attempts at repression. Some 1,300 Palestinians and 80 Israelis were killed in the uprising up to the end of 1991. Many Palestinian private homes were dynamited by military order. they were forced by circumstances to put up a armed struggle.
they started the Intifadah, but was it even an armed conflict?
if we were to say who were right or wrong, it would be same as asking whether egg came first or chicken first.
innocents palestinians women and children killed by armed israeli, suicide bombers killing innocent israelis.
[/b]
But then again Israel has been condemmed and infact is labelled terrorist in certain european countries...(namely France and Germany)and there have been UN mandates for them to stop but they havent.....still no action taken againest them because US veto -
the Bear,
You've barely scratch the surface about the topic.
Read the history and visit Israel/Palestin, don't make judgement from afar in comfortable Singapore.
Make an effort to visit the Middle East and learn about the people and culture, there 2 sides to a story. -
i know.. the first step is to ask around...
share what you know...
when i read that article, it sorta destroyed everything the PLO said they were fighting for... and with that, every shred of credibility they claimed to have..Originally posted by Temujin:the Bear,
You've barely scratch the surface about the topic.
Read the history and visit Israel/Palestin, don't make judgement from afar in comfortable Singapore.
Make an effort to visit the Middle East and learn about the people and culture, there 2 sides to a story. -
If Israel ordered an immediate pull-out from the west bank and occupied lands, relocate their jewish settlers, give palestinians unconditional independence and even after this, Hamas, Hizbollah etc etc continue to homicide bomb (take note, suicide bombers are not martyrs but mass murderers) israelis, then i would give full support to their systematic assassination project.
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firstly, back then in nov 2000, days before the the peace talk at the white house, Israeli army assasinated one of Mr Arafat's right hand man, people killing him, and a couple of innocent bystanders on the West Bank. is that a act of sincerity? or like chinese like to put it, xia ma wei?
Barak faces an uncertain coalition situation back home then before the Middle East peace summit at Camp David, Maryland
Writing in the New York Review of Books, Robert Malley, who was Mr Clinton's special adviser on Arab-Israeli affairs, claims that Mr Barak failed to honour previous Israeli agreements – assurances which Mr Clinton had been personally guaranteed to Mr Arafat. Mr Barak, the author writes, failed to fulfil promises to withdraw from three villages around Jerusalem and to release Palestinian prisoners – provoking an angry confrontation with Mr Clinton.
Immediately after the Camp David talks broke down, Israel mounted a huge public relations exercise to convince the international community that it had made unprecedented offers to Mr Arafat which amounted to the return of almost the entire occupied Palestinian territories. Israeli embassies wined and dined Western newspaper editors with stories of the supposed 96 per cent of land which was offered to Mr Arafat, repeating the tired old shibboleth that the Palestinian leader "never lost an opportunity to lose an opportunity".
Mr Clinton took the unprecedented step of appearing on Israeli television to blame Mr Arafat. American journalists dutifully reported that the Palestinian Authority president – out of greed or stupidity – had demanded the return of 100 per cent of the occupied land and, failing to achieve this, opted for a second intifada in which more than 600 men, women and children, the vast majority of them Palestinians, have been killed by Israeli soldiers, Jewish settlers, Palestinian guerrillas and suicide bombers.
In reality, Palestinian officials and American sources – the latter wisely avoiding Israeli condemnation by talking anonymously – have pointed out that the figure of 96 per cent represented the percentage of the land over which Israel was prepared to negotiate – not 96 per cent of the entire West Bank and Gaza Strip. ~~~talking about sincerity...~~~
Palestine did not asked for all the land. in fact left out of the equation was arab east jerusalem – illegally annexed by israel after the 1967 arab-israeli 6-day war – the huge belt of jewish settlements, including 'male adumim', around the city and a 10-mile wide military buffer zone around the palestinian territories.
along with the obligation to lease back settlements – built illegally under international law on arab land – to israel for 25 years, the total palestinian land from which israel was prepared to withdraw came to only around 46 per cent – a far cry from the 96 per cent touted after Camp David.
The israelis had only offered the palestinians "control" over some arab streets in jerusalem – a miniature version of the little "bantustans" that already exist in the west bank – and "control" over the Al Aqsa mosque and its surrounds, the territory beneath (including the remains of the jewish temple) being under israeli sovereignty. the palestinians were apparently to receive some territorial waters in the dead sea – upon which they could hardly build any houses.
The US State Depart. have often (back then) refer the palestinian murder of Israelis as a barbaric attack of "unconscionable vigilantism" rather than 'terrorism'.
~~~the terror word catches on onli in recent years.~~~
Footnote: the above infor were extracts from a news commentary on Mr. Robert Malley, who was Mr Clinton's special adviser on Arab-Israeli affairs. as i the above were taken from an analysis report which i had did quite some time ago, i'm unable to provide the exact link to the page. any kind souls out there to provide the links?Originally posted by |-|05|:Ahh and you would be wrong here.....because a certain PM Barak offered Arafat a deal where in 3-5 years Israel would have a complete pull out and return to the 1948 status if the PLO would declare to stop all attacks instantly!Guess what?Arafat said NO!!Said Israel could not exist at all and all lands are to be returned......the rest we know is history.
But then again Israel has been condemmed and infact is labelled terrorist in certain european countries...(namely France and Germany)and there have been UN mandates for them to stop but they havent.....still no action taken againest them because US veto -
Hi Foga,
May I request that when you include or paste work from other people/sources inside your comments, please give due credit to them, or provide a reference to the original articles.
That said, I'm sure it's not your intention to let us think you wrote them all yourself.
This is where you got the info for your latest post:
http://www.al-bushra.org/israel/jul23.html
BTW did you compile/write the history timeline yourself, or was it taken from somewhere? If so, may we know where?
Thanks for the insights you've provided!
