Age Discrimination in Singapore - the old cannot find jobs
-
50 no job? go work macdonalds lah...even those auntie always talking to themselves also can have a second chance in life over there...
you're just picky... -
Thailand hero, I think you are missing the point. The point is some people have the experience and the expertise but due to their age they are discriminated from that job. They are looked down by employers who want to pay less, make more profit, and not to have to worry about medical expenses etc.
I agree with shutterbug that the government is not doing anything much to help those that already inhabit this land. But I think the government has hit the nail on the head by concentrating also on birth rates. However, I think there is a greater need to help those already here, so that they will not be left behind. We cannot always just think about the future and not care about the present.
I know some people, like shutterbug that wants to leave ASAP, but others here have family, memories, and a bond with this country. So what should be done? Those that have they mind set on leaving do not care for this country anymore, maybe dealing with this discrimination might help stir some people to work harder for the better of society.
I think it is wrong for the government to leave employment issues to the hands of employers, if what one reader said is correct, where there has already been an issue and the gov said that it is up to the companies. I think there is a limit on how much any government should leave companies to their own devices, government control and intervention is always needed. So what can we do? dealing with this is crucial to our future as singaporeans, and people who work in Singapore.
What should we do? lets deliberate further.
-
It is very sad in Spore, to see old folks struggling out to find a job!
They shld be enjoying retirement instead of worrying abt finding a job!
Of cors, some of the folks work because they've got nuttin to do in the day, at least work a few hrs in the day, get some "allowance" and cheong karaoke at RC centres in the night, that's how many snr citizens spend their old age, provided they no need to worry about health and money or cors.
However, there're folks who need to slog it out in kopitiam, factories or companies as cleaners, dishwasher, etc to earn a living becos they've got no money to enjoy retirement!
For Malaysians, it's different. The young ones will piah like crazy, earn OTs in factories, work in 12/16 hr shifts, 5-7 days a week. Earn enuf money, then they go back malaysia and do business until they grow old, hit 50 and they can start retiring. You seldom see old folks working in msia you know...
Why is this so? Coz it's the standard of living in spore is higher than msia. If you want quality of life, look across the causeway, young people start driving cars and living in semi-Ds aleady!
Look at spore youths, struggling with low pay jobs or never ending education! -
age discrmination in working place is already instill in singapore culture. who causes that? we singaporea are setting the trend for ourselves. unresponsible employers are everywhere. taking care of their own interest is more important than employee esp older workers.
i feel sad to hear some older workers being retrench and feel helpless under the merciless society we are in. he some employer wage freeze your dad for 3 years due to poor performace of company, i have no complain on that but if company is doing well and wage freeze, obviously discrimination and abusing the helpless older workers. "take it or leave it", if employer say this by paying $900 salary. the only reason i can think of because he has a cheaper source, where ? from neighbouring country where cheaper worker are abundance. Our singapore do not have strict laws to protect fellow singaporean workforce.
final point to note, our tripatite is too harmonous. sometimes i cant distinguish what role our NTUC are holding. they seem to merge with PAP. all top position in NTUC are MP. whether is this Lim passing baton to another Lim is no difference, coz all are party member of PAP. isnt they wearing 2 hats? unionist doesn exist here. we do not have a strong union to protect their members not to mention non unionist.
we will be old somedays, even at 30 i feel some pressure and demoralise looking 10 years ahead. im university educated, but do not have highly specialise skill that cannot be replace. i think youngster around my age feel the same way, educated but with bleak future looking ahead.
what can we do? nothing.
im locally breed but getting disappointed with our society and country. -
Originally posted by SGglobalist:..........
I think it is wrong for the government to leave employment issues to the hands of employers, if what one reader said is correct, where there has already been an issue and the gov said that it is up to the companies. I think there is a limit on how much any government should leave companies to their own devices, government control and intervention is always needed. So what can we do? dealing with this is crucial to our future as singaporeans, and people who work in Singapore.
What should we do? lets deliberate further. 
Like what I have said, the government is pretty powerless in this matter.
When governments interfer, the company will go," We're trying to make money and boost the economy. How are we going to do that when......"
You know the rest of the story. -
If this trend of discriminating the older Singaporean worker/employee, Singapore in time to come, will be filled with senior jobless people. IMAGINE!!!
What kind of developed country will this then be???
Of course, so long as this age discrimination does not reduce revenues for our government, they won't give a crap about the issue. Of course, until it is too late - when there are mounting number of jobless and financially dependant and childless old couples in our streets.
That's called looking for the loo, only when s-h-i-t is coming out of your a-s-s. -
If u r a company boss, who will u employ ? A chap who is 20 or someone who is almost similar but 60 ?
Years of experience ? It will work if u stay in your own job like SM or the COE of UOB. However if u r changing your job and have to start things anew, wat is the use of experience ? Nowsdays everything is changing fast, depending on the field, 2-5 years experience is already comparably better then 20-50 years of experiences. If u r in a career where experiences r everything, then u won't be afraid of losing your job. But then again... wat or how limited can tat field can tat be ?
Old people fall sick easier, old people tend to be less agile, less edurance and healthy, old people tend to learn thing slower, old folks tend to be more forgetful, old people tend to stay in a company shorter, old people r physically less attractive, if old folk stay in same company, they tend to have higher pay and feel more "lao jiao" compared with a new 20 year old chap.
U think tat is crap ? Too bad tat is wat almost everyone think. I am setting a company, I am not setting a charity. I don't care if he is going to beg or if he is going to commit suicide after I retrenced him. My bottom line is profit. The only way I will recruit an old person if I am the boss is because they r cheaper. Face it man... this is reality. How r u going to persuade a company boss to think otherwise ?
As a previous forumer describe, wat is the thing tat old folk can do while younger folks can't ? -
Yes, Bottom Line is profit, Dollars and cents.
If it is a simple relation between employer and empolyee, the world will be "great". So, how come the company dun practise OT pay but insist the workers to work extra time but no extra pay since its juz abt money?
How come most companies expect the workers to devote themselves wholeheartedly to the company and yet expect them to recieve peanuts. Come on, everybody is earning a living
I am not being ideaistic or being a saint, i am juz asking for "fairness"(although its diffcult to be all the same).
My dad's company is earning and getting profit(boss is earning lah)
Of course, they dun ask for few thousands or millions increment, but juz a $50 or $100 increment and i dun see y not if the company is EARNING.
So, if its liked wat u said, profit and nothing else, me sympathised those who work under u, caused u lack of one thing....
COMPASSION.
And to answer ur question, ( dunn the field of work u refer to. So i take it as admin work)
Some older guys (ard 40 to 50) are more mature and stable in handling situation than the (24 to 29)young man.
RegardsOriginally posted by stupidissmart:If u r a company boss, who will u employ ? A chap who is 20 or someone who is almost similar but 60 ?
Years of experience ? It will work if u stay in your own job like SM or the COE of UOB. However if u r changing your job and have to start things anew, wat is the use of experience ? Nowsdays everything is changing fast, depending on the field, 2-5 years experience is already comparably better then 20-50 years of experiences. If u r in a career where experiences r everything, then u won't be afraid of losing your job. But then again... wat or how limited can tat field can tat be ?
Old people fall sick easier, old people tend to be less agile, less edurance and healthy, old people tend to learn thing slower, old folks tend to be more forgetful, old people tend to stay in a company shorter, old people r physically less attractive, if old folk stay in same company, they tend to have higher pay and feel more "lao jiao" compared with a new 20 year old chap.
U think tat is crap ? Too bad tat is wat almost everyone think. I am setting a company, I am not setting a charity. I don't care if he is going to beg or if he is going to commit suicide after I retrenced him. My bottom line is profit. The only way I will recruit an old person if I am the boss is because they r cheaper. Face it man... this is reality. How r u going to persuade a company boss to think otherwise ?
As a previous forumer describe, wat is the thing tat old folk can do while younger folks can't ? -
Keyword to note is tend. What's to say there aren't stupid, arrogant, tactless, unethical even unheathly youngsters? Nuff labelling, there are such people on both ends so stereotyping them to back your cause is to say the least, flawed.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If u r a company boss, who will u employ ? A chap who is 20 or someone who is almost similar but 60 ?
Years of experience ? It will work if u stay in your own job like SM or the COE of UOB. However if u r changing your job and have to start things anew, wat is the use of experience ? Nowsdays everything is changing fast, depending on the field, 2-5 years experience is already comparably better then 20-50 years of experiences. If u r in a career where experiences r everything, then u won't be afraid of losing your job. But then again... wat or how limited can tat field can tat be ?
Old people fall sick easier, old people tend to be less agile, less edurance and healthy, old people tend to learn thing slower, old folks tend to be more forgetful, old people tend to stay in a company shorter, old people r physically less attractive, if old folk stay in same company, they tend to have higher pay and feel more "lao jiao" compared with a new 20 year old chap.
U think tat is crap ? Too bad tat is wat almost everyone think. I am setting a company, I am not setting a charity. I don't care if he is going to beg or if he is going to commit suicide after I retrenced him. My bottom line is profit. The only way I will recruit an old person if I am the boss is because they r cheaper. Face it man... this is reality. How r u going to persuade a company boss to think otherwise ?
As a previous forumer describe, wat is the thing tat old folk can do while younger folks can't ?
Point is if they can contribute value on par where biological attributes are secondary, should employers close the door on them, just because they have higher digits in age and more wrinkles. My POV, honchos who do so cut themselves out on the share of talents. -
Yes, Bottom Line is profit, Dollars and cents.
For those already working under u, it is in fact wise to increase their pays etc to moltivate them to perform better.
If it is a simple relation between employer and empolyee, the world will be "great". So, how come the company dun practise OT pay but insist the workers to work extra time but no extra pay since its juz abt money?
How come most companies expect the workers to devote themselves wholeheartedly to the company and yet expect them to recieve peanuts. Come on, everybody is earning a living
I am not being ideaistic or being a saint, i am juz asking for "fairness"(although its diffcult to be all the same).
My dad's company is earning and getting profit(boss is earning lah)
Of course, they dun ask for few thousands or millions increment, but juz a $50 or $100 increment and i dun see y not if the company is EARNING.
So, if its liked wat u said, profit and nothing else, me sympathised those who work under u, caused u lack of one thing....
COMPASSION.
And to answer ur question, ( dunn the field of work u refer to. So i take it as admin work)
Some older guys (ard 40 to 50) are more mature and stable in handling situation than the (24 to 29)young man.
Regards
However the situation here is not describing about workers already working in a company. It is about companies employing "OLD" workers into it. Why want to use the money tat can be used to better reward your current workers on someone who did not contribute neither do they seems to be contribute much in future ?
For your information. This forums is describing about people who had hit beyond 50+ finding a new job. Does a 50+ years old worker work harder and better than a 20-40 years old worker given both r applying for the same job ?
I know compassion. But do u know wat is practical and face reality ? U may say I am being uncompassionate. But which companies do it to such a point tat they employ old 50+ workers instead of young workers ?Keyword to note is tend. What's to say there aren't stupid, arrogant, tactless, unethical even unheathly youngsters? Nuff labelling, there are such people on both ends so stereotyping them to back your cause is to say the least, flawed.
The point to note is all else being equal except experiences and age. Is having a lot of experiences at a different companies really more beneficial tat it covers the problems tat old age bring ?
Point is if they can contribute value on par where biological attributes are secondary, should employers close the door on them, just because they have higher digits in age and more wrinkles. My POV, honchos who do so cut themselves out on the share of talents.
As I said before, some jobs do requires extensive experiences in a field. These workers will not be afraid of being kicked out of their companies if experiences is so important. As said before, SM Lee and the COE of UOB are already at retirement age. Do they worry about being retrench or kicked out by companies ? The companies r there to judge whether does tis older worker perform better than enlisting a new one who also got 10+ years of experiences. -
Now that we've gotten more levelled..Originally posted by stupidissmart:The point to note is all else being equal except experiences and age. Is having a lot of experiences at a different companies really more beneficial tat it covers the problems tat old age bring ?
As I said before, some jobs do requires extensive experiences in a field. These workers will not be afraid of being kicked out of their companies if experiences is so important. As said before, SM Lee and the COE of UOB are already at retirement age. Do they worry about being retrench or kicked out by companies ? The companies r there to judge whether does tis older worker perform better than enlisting a new one who also got 10+ years of experiences.
That question is two fold, there can also be problems which lack of experience invites. And perhaps you can agree with me that such is most suitably left for bosses to evaluate based on its needs, hopefully in a nondiscriminatory manner.
If industrial needs shift, experiences may be rendered irrelevant tho not useless. Allow me to pose in return, are SM and Mr. Wee retaining their position only because of their wealth of experience? -
Now that we've gotten more levelled..
Old age brings about many disadvantages compared with a young chap. There will be certainly some discrimination in it. Lets say companies can employ 2 person. One is a 50+ chap with weath of experiences. The other is a 30+ chap with 10 years experiences. Just by looking at the resume at their past acheivements, u find tat the older chap deserve 90 points while the 30+ chap get 85. Who will u employ ? I will employ the younger one since he is young, fit, can learn easier, can remember better and state of mind improves as they goes along. The performance of the older folks probably will go downhill as time went by. It is a fact of life.
That question is two fold, there can also be problems which lack of experience invites. And perhaps you can agree with me that such is most suitably left for bosses to evaluate based on its needs, hopefully in a nondiscriminatory manner.
If industrial needs shift, experiences may be rendered irrelevant tho not useless. Allow me to pose in return, are SM and Mr. Wee retaining their position only because of their wealth of experience?
For your second question, my answer is... not really so... Wat does tat just proves then ? Even people like SM Lee grow old and have to take a back seat. They r just there because they have made great contribution in the past or they owned the company. The problems tat old age bring is real. I mean isn't tis is biologically proven...