Homosexual
-
to each his own... no one has the right to judge anyone in the first place...
-
Hey lighten up people, think PRP is just trying to understand more about gays. Can't say his first post was diplomatic. Maybe he should rephrase his first post?
"Most people are heterosexual and by right according to nature, guy should love girl and girl should love guy. Then why is it that homosexuality exists, just wondering, why do people turn homosexual?" -
the "by right according to nature" part is by itself offensive already. in case you don't know, in ancient greece, by right according to nature, it is normal to be gay. don't use our shallow modern standards to judge things which go way back a few thousand years.Originally posted by SumOne:Hey lighten up people, think PRP is just trying to understand more about gays. Can't say his first post was diplomatic. Maybe he should rephrase his first post?
"Most people are heterosexual and by right according to nature, guy should love girl and girl should love guy. Then why is it that homosexuality exists, just wondering, why do people turn homosexual?" -
PRECISELY!!! i was wondering when someone would bring this up!!!Originally posted by HENG@:the "by right according to nature" part is by itself offensive already. in case you don't know, in ancient greece, by right according to nature, it is normal to be gay. don't use our shallow modern standards to judge things which go way back a few thousand years.
we read greek philosophy, greek history and greek mythology, hollywood just made a movie about helen of troy starring brad pitt, but we don't know THIS aspect of hellenic civilization...
but just to refine the point... it was not "normal to be gay" because there was no conception of "gay" ... they just did and there was no conception that it was "wrong" or "abnormal" ...
the greek society was patriarchal, but they certainly had a healthier, more open attitude towards sex and sexuality than we did... -
basically, it was "by right according to nature" ok to be anything, no distinctions! that is the true hallmark of an advanced societyOriginally posted by CX:PRECISELY!!! i was wondering when someone would bring this up!!!
we read greek philosophy, greek history and greek mythology, hollywood just made a movie about helen of troy starring brad pitt, but we don't know THIS aspect of hellenic civilization...
but just to refine the point... it was not "normal to be gay" because there was no conception of "gay" ... they just did and there was no conception that it was "wrong" or "abnormal" ...
the greek society was patriarchal, but they certainly had a healthier, more open attitude towards sex and sexuality than we did... -
no lah... they had distinctions in other things... it was patriarchal so they were a bit misogynistic...Originally posted by HENG@:basically, it was "by right according to nature" ok to be anything, no distinctions! that is the true hallmark of an advanced society
the athenians practiced a form of "democracy" but not everybody could vote and they practiced slavery (though they were generally regarded to have treated their slaves properly) ...
it was just in the realm of sexuality that they were very open in their thinking...
incidentally, one wonders if china was similarly advance as confucianism was often perceived as misogynistic and homophobic. but historians have always emphasised that there was often a gap between rhetoric and actual situation on the ground.
southeast asia certainly was more open in issues of sexuality before the coming of islam... hinduism and buddhism did not have such prejudices. -
PRP,Originally posted by PRP:In order not to out of the topic "What do S'poreans want?",I start this topic.
Homosexual is abnormal.For most ppl,heterosexual is natural inclination.Would gays enlighten us why they become homosexual?
please quote correctly. The topic is "What does Singapore need?" not want. There is a big difference. I personally do not think homosexuality falls outside the topic. I think Singapore must emphasis more on equality, being a multiracial society and all. But when looked in depth, it is easy to find that there are other fractions in society that needs a voice because they have been oppressed. Understand this, in a democracy, there is AWAYS going to be someone that is going to get hurt. The majoriy will always win the minority. However, I am not saying that communism is the way to go, all I am saying is that we should find the weak spots in democracy and solve those problems; such as helping the disabled, equality for women and homosexuals, stuff like that.
In one of your posts,You also wondering why people are attacking your statement. What you said is just plain offensive, rude, discriminative, and unacceptable (to me)
you just made a statement without providing facts. What is so abnormal about homosexuality and what is so natural about heterosexuality? Haven't you been reading what we discussed about socialization etc. Let me ask you what made you heterosexual? When did you become straight? come on enlighten me.
Homosexual is abnormal.For most ppl,heterosexual is natural inclination.
But I think this is a great topic, fear can only be defeated through knowledge. Hopefully this topic will help others talk about their fears. Discussing homosexuality as a topic could enlighten narrow minded individuals. But when you judge others based on self rightous beliefs, don't be shocked when people to put you down.
-
we should try to unravel these pre-conceived notions and discover the roots of it and see if they in fact, make sense.
confucianism had been cited as one main root of homophobia... the idea that procreation is a duty and the failure to do so makes one un-fillial...
this stems from the notion that homosexuals do not engage in hetrosexual sex, which may not be true...
hence, i venture to suggest that the dichotomy between homosexual vs hetrosexual vs bisexual is meaningless. people should not be judged by who they fúck...
and some clowns have ventured to suggest that since we face an aging population and the gov't wants more babies, homosexuality runs contrary to this goal... and these SAME pple have spoken out against that hateful speech the last time procreation was tied in with civic duty!!!
what blatant hypocrisy! speaking AGAINST policies when it affects them and speaking out FOR it when it affects others they do not agree with... -
Wah, gay supporters are so talkative!6 against 1,how can i 'win'?Would you all just send one representative to argue with me?
U see,the heterosexual majority is so toralent towards the views of gay advocators.
Is homosexuality of a person born to be so?Pls explain with reason.I believe heterosexuality is by nature. -
I said: "homosexual is abnormal." Some think this is an insult.What would u say if the statement is a fact. I believe it is a fact.Homosex is a CRIMINAL act in S'pore and other countries!!!So can homosexual be considered normal????
I'm not here to offend anyone but to argue my belief.Sorry if my opinions offend anyone. -
Originally posted by PRP:
we seek better understand through discussion and debate. we do not seek to "win" ... if u're just here to get pple to agree with u, u're in the wrong place.
Wah, gay supporters are so talkative!6 against 1,how can i 'win'?Would you all just send one representative to argue with me?
the fact that so many pple replied suggests that views are multi-faceted and diverse. we are not all saying the same thing and all these views should be addressed..
if u are too lazy to reply to at least some of us, then why do we post for? in fact... if u're too lazy to reply, why do YOU post for???U see,the heterosexual majority is so toralent towards the views of gay advocators.
and why should anyone be "intolerant" ?
Heng@ is no gay activist... he said himself that he is homophobic... but he respects individuals for the choices they make. he does not see a need to voice out or reject people. he just leaves them alone.
it is not a point of view i agree with in total however... i see no need to fear or abhore individuals for the choices the make, or who they are born to be. i do not judge people for who they sleep with.
i care more for the quality of their mind and their personality. when i work with them, i care more that the work is done. either way, their sex life does not come into the picture at all.Is homosexuality of a person born to be so?
read previous discussion in "what Singapore Needs?" ... that has already been addressed. we disagreed on everything else there, but we agreed that there is no ONE cause.Pls explain with reason.I believe heterosexuality is by nature.
u can believe what u want... we've discussed causuality to death already. we waste time by going over points already debated to death. -
6 vs 1 u considered alot...?Originally posted by PRP:Wah, gay supporters are so talkative!6 against 1,how can i 'win'?Would you all just send one representative to argue with me?
U see,the heterosexual majority is so toralent towards the views of gay advocators.
Is homosexuality of a person born to be so?Pls explain with reason.I believe heterosexuality is by nature.
i never join in nia... don say me la... alot ppl never join in... if nt will be like 100 vs 1? -
Just trying to make things less hostile here. Not really part of the main conversation so don't be so fierce to me?Originally posted by HENG@:the "by right according to nature" part is by itself offensive already. in case you don't know, in ancient greece, by right according to nature, it is normal to be gay. don't use our shallow modern standards to judge things which go way back a few thousand years.
-
open discussions.. so PRP, you said that now they are discussing ah.. but not agreeing to what you post nia.. relax guys.. slowly..
-
Fellow peace advocate. Hello.Originally posted by ^sylvia^:open discussions.. so PRP, you said that now they are discussing ah.. but not agreeing to what you post nia.. relax guys.. slowly.. -
halo~Originally posted by SumOne:Fellow peace advocate. Hello.
yah.. though we didn't share same views in other topics.. but i hope we won't quarrel face to face yeah?
good luck in everything u do
-
Like you say, different people will have different views. End of the day, everybody one big happy family.Originally posted by ^sylvia^:halo~
yah.. though we didn't share same views in other topics.. but i hope we won't quarrel face to face yeah?
good luck in everything u do -
yup~Originally posted by SumOne:Like you say, different people will have different views. End of the day, everybody one big happy family. jia you in everything you do oh~ -
You too. Enjoy your weekend.Originally posted by ^sylvia^:yup~ jia you in everything you do oh~ -
Heng, making a statement as ridiculous as his.
-
guess what? chewing gum seems to be illegal here too, i guess we're an abnormal bunch to ban that , aren't we?Originally posted by CX:we should try to unravel these pre-conceived notions and discover the roots of it and see if they in fact, make sense.
confucianism had been cited as one main root of homophobia... the idea that procreation is a duty and the failure to do so makes one un-fillial...
this stems from the notion that homosexuals do not engage in hetrosexual sex, which may not be true...
hence, i venture to suggest that the dichotomy between homosexual vs hetrosexual vs bisexual is [b]meaningless. people should not be judged by who they fúck...
and some clowns have ventured to suggest that since we face an aging population and the gov't wants more babies, homosexuality runs contrary to this goal... and these SAME pple have spoken out against that hateful speech the last time procreation was tied in with civic duty!!!
what blatant hypocrisy! speaking AGAINST policies when it affects them and speaking out FOR it when it affects others they do not agree with...[/b][/quote]
you have often spoken about being realistic and rational especially to pikamaster, but this post seems to be going against that with your mention of "blatant hypocrisy"
[quote]Originally posted by PRP:
I said: "homosexual is abnormal." Some think this is an insult.What would u say if the statement is a fact. I believe it is a fact.Homosex is a CRIMINAL act in S'pore and other countries!!!So can homosexual be considered normal????
I'm not here to offend anyone but to argue my belief.Sorry if my opinions offend anyone.
gay supporters? hope you didn't mean me, i'm not one, infact i consider myself homophobic, but i feel that your view about gays being "abnormal" in too muchOriginally posted by PRP:Wah, gay supporters are so talkative!6 against 1,how can i 'win'?Would you all just send one representative to argue with me?
U see,the heterosexual majority is so toralent towards the views of gay advocators.
Is homosexuality of a person born to be so?Pls explain with reason.I believe heterosexuality is by nature.
i bet you have some "abnormal" habbit that would make some of us freak out
you believe that heterosexuality is by nature that fine by me
i too do not believe homosexuality is by nature at least not all the way
what i believe is, all of us are born bisexual, but the majority of us have choosen to be "straight" -
Give me a break PRP, I do not see people here advocating for others to be gay. I don't see people saying be gay or else...Originally posted by PRP:Wah, gay supporters are so talkative!6 against 1,how can i 'win'?Would you all just send one representative to argue with me?
U see,the heterosexual majority is so toralent towards the views of gay advocators.
Is homosexuality of a person born to be so?Pls explain with reason.I believe heterosexuality is by nature.
I think we are here, or at least I am here to state that gay or not, no one should be discriminated against and thought of as abnormal, freaks, or even deviants. In this world where eveyone is different, diversity must move beyond tolarance. Accepting difference is the goal I think. But equally important is dealing with intolarant hate mongers
First off, does what people do in their bedrooms affect you in anyway? Do you really care who does who? Seems a little voyeristic to me.
Are you also a representative for those gay bashers and hate starters? Why I am saying this is because you seem to have taken the 'other' side. Are you feeling overwhelmed by all the posts that are against you, that you are calling for representatives?
In another post it was stated that it is law that homosexuality is wrong. Please remember that laws are made up by people, they are not natural and some laws are made through discriminative ideologies so there is a need to debunk these ideologies. If laws stated that women were only objects of men's desire and satisfaction, where they were not allowed to vote or have a say, what would you do?
if there are 6 against 1 and you think you are not winning, maybe it is time to reevaluate your reasoning. Maybe majority of heterosexuals do not care about what goes on behind closed doors and just want to live in peace and harmony with all people, gay or straight. So you don't believe that homosexuality is natural, so do I, neither is heterosexuality, that is alright. but lets get to the juicy part. What do you think of gay marriages or changing the laws so that homosexuals will get equal status as heterosexuals?
Stop giving one line answers, show some facts and some reasoning skills, put what you have learnt in school to the test.
If you want to understand more about nature vs nurture, go read the posts in the topic "what does SG need". -
Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:
i do... and i still believe in that... but is it realistic or rational to consider a personal issue of sexuality a crime? why is oral sex a crime?
you have often spoken about being realistic and rational especially to pikamaster, but this post seems to be going against that with your mention of "blatant hypocrisy"
is it rational or realistic to discriminate and reject pple for who they choose to sleep with?
but on the other hand, is it realistic or rational to assume the best in people AFTER they have been caught committing murder and evidence of their violence had been brought to bear in a court of law?
homosexuals do not disturb the peace or intentionally hurt people... they're not bum-buggering, perverted sex offenders (thought THOSE who engage in rape deserve to be dealt with according to the law)...
what we're talking about are people like u and me, students, employees, employers, people, who just happen to be homosexuals. why is that so objectionable?
the "blatant hypocrisy" points to pple with elastic principles... who on one hand oppose policies when it negatively affects them, while on the other hand, supporting it when it adversely affects someone else more than themselves.
i do not think it contradicts my views in any way... -
eh?Originally posted by Lingos:Heng, making a statement as ridiculous as his. -
for him, i rest my case. i already said i am homophobic, but i have also said i do not condemn them for being gay. its up to him to get that into his narrow head