Homosexual
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probably YOU don't know... that's why u're so sure there is a right and wrong. as if it wasn't enough that u judge people without cause, u now claim others to be ignorant?Originally posted by PRP:CX,
Probalby u don't know,that's why u think there is no right or wrong on this issue.
In the past and even today,majority of the ppl think homosexuality is not right.Are their belief wrong?Why do so many ppl think like that?
I have given by reaon why i think homosexuality is wrong.Your rebutal is not convincing to me.
in the past, HOMOSEXUAL WAS NOT SEEN AS A CRIME! how many times do i have to tell u! go read some greek philosophy.
THE IDEA THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG, UNNATURAL AND SINFUL IS DISTINCTLY MODERN!
your "reasons" are the results of a faulty pre-conceived notion. -
hey there have been already 2 different cases of men becoming lesbian trans reported in the papers. don't u read the papers?Originally posted by PRP:Heng,
U said some tran became lesbian.
I don't believe what u said.Tran is a man who do sex op to become a 'woman'.If he can have sexual relationship with a woman,why did he have sex-change op?
u dun have to believe or not. fact is fact. as for the why, u have to ask those trans themselves, because nobody really knows what they were thinking. -
CX: just occured to me... PRP's siggy is a sort of irony...
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Heng said he is homophobia.If homo is considered normal,why should he be homophobia?
CX,
Is heterosexuality right or wrong? -
eating durian or eating hum is normal but why some people scared eat durian or hum?Originally posted by PRP:Heng said he is homophobia.If homo is considered normal,why should he be homophobia?
CX,
Is heterosexuality right or wrong?
duh u sure u know wad u asking? -
i fear women, damn i should have known that they're all abnormal especially those beautiful onesOriginally posted by PRP:Heng said he is homophobia.If homo is considered normal,why should he be homophobia?
CX,
Is heterosexuality right or wrong? -
that is a VERY enlightened viewOriginally posted by oldbreadstinks:i fear women, damn i should have known that they're all abnormal especially those beautiful ones 
but don't fear them... conquer them
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Heng@ didn't say that its normal or abnormal... the way i read his views, it simply means that he occupies that extreme that decides to be hetrosexual.Originally posted by PRP:Heng said he is homophobia.If homo is considered normal,why should he be homophobia?
CX,
Is heterosexuality right or wrong?
and he believes that though he does not agree, he does not discriminate against the other extreme or everything in between... to me, as well as him, the judgement of whether it is normal or not is simply NOT ours to make.
i am a little more extreme in my opinion... i feel that homophobia is a socially inflicted state of mind based on certain pre-conceived notions that were basically invented over time. it is not consistent, rooted in history or fact, and simply the construct of certain narrow minds.
as for right or wrong, i would say that it is an irrelevent question because why is it ANYONE's business who we choose to fúck... -
humankind exists only to contradict and confuse... existence is but varying degree of this contradiction and confusion...Originally posted by HENG@:CX: just occured to me... PRP's siggy is a sort of irony...
ultimately, narrow minds believe what they want to believe... i merely try to express a possible alternative when i can so our brains do not atrophy -
woah.. read about heng@ and CX's post.. you both so great~ nice go~
enjoy reading hee -
right on there.Originally posted by CX:humankind exists only to contradict and confuse... existence is but varying degree of this contradiction and confusion...
ultimately, narrow minds believe what they want to believe... i merely try to express a possible alternative when i can so our brains do not atrophy -
CX,
Sure,u can do whatever u like -- even illegal act.But there is morality or right or wrong dimention to whatever action.So u can't say there is no question of right or wrong about homo.
So i asked:Is heterosexuality right or wrong? Surely u can easily answer that question.But some of u say there is no right or wrong for homo.Why?It can't be.Don't ask that question so that homo can enjoy themseves without any quilt?
Heng,
An arrogant person can't be very intelligent. -
Originally posted by PRP:
what is "morality" to you? morality is a socially defined standard. as i've already told u, sexuality was not always part of this "package" u call morality, or right and wrong.
CX,
Sure,u can do whatever u like -- even illegal act.But there is morality or right or wrong dimention to whatever action.So u can't say there is no question of right or wrong about homo.
and when u say "legal", what is the foundation of our legal code today? it is the british common law. and the law against homosexuality is basically a relic of victorian prudishness... the same society who saw sex as sin, pleasure as shameful, women couldn't vote, and the white man was right to conquer and enslave inferior black and brown indigeneous pple all over the world.
AND that it was important to spread this narrow idea of "civilization" to the ones they conquered.
i still say, that u're barking up the wrong tree by insisting that there is a "right" and "wrong" in this.So i asked:Is heterosexuality right or wrong? Surely u can easily answer that question.But some of u say there is no right or wrong for homo.Why?It can't be.Don't ask that question so that homo can enjoy themseves without any quilt?
sex has no right and wrong. it is a biological function and sex is MEANT to be enjoyed without ANY guilt. the very notion of sex as sin, is a sick mix of medieval christian and prudish victorian.
in ancient southeast asia before the coming of islam and christianity, hemaphrodites were believed to have access to great spiritual prowess. this changed only with the coming of islam to the islands. what is the right and wrong here???
that is exactly what i mean: norms are shaped by philosophies and ideologies that are essentially products of different thought-worlds. they are not "more" or "less" relevant... they are just DIFFERENT.
throughout history, extreme homophobia was always a position employed by the bigoted, the ignorant and the sexually repressed.
it is NOT a question of right and wrong, but WHERE did these notions of right and wrong come from??? and what is the OTHER way to look at the situation. it is STUPID to take all these positions at face value and accept them without question.
if u intend to just keep pushing your pig-ignorant OPINION, then i guess this discussion is over.
u have not brought up ANY evidence beyond your narrow mind and your self-righteous stance, that homosexuality is "unnatural" or "wrong".Heng,
u talking about yourself?
An arrogant person can't be very intelligent. -
heh... so u have to resort to personal attacks now? ta da! ladies n gents. PRP exposed for what he is.Originally posted by PRP:CX,
Sure,u can do whatever u like -- even illegal act.But there is morality or right or wrong dimention to whatever action.So u can't say there is no question of right or wrong about homo.
So i asked:Is heterosexuality right or wrong? Surely u can easily answer that question.But some of u say there is no right or wrong for homo.Why?It can't be.Don't ask that question so that homo can enjoy themseves without any quilt?
Heng,
An arrogant person can't be very intelligent. -
depending on what you based your arguement on, you can stated the homosexuality is "abnormal" , since all that is based on "society"
but here, we are the "society" and we don't find it "abnormal"hemaphrodites
huh? is that something you get on your a$$ when you sit for too long?
sex has no right and wrong. it is a biological function and sex is MEANT to be enjoyed without ANY guilt. the very notion of sex as sin, is a sick mix of medieval christian and prudish victorian.
sex was considered a sin by most cultures, i think -
hemaphrodites r ppl with both male and female sex organsOriginally posted by oldbreadstinks:depending on what you based your arguement on, you can stated the homosexuality is "abnormal" , since all that is based on "society"
but here, we are the "society" and we don't find it "abnormal"
sex was considered a sin by most cultures, i think -
eh hello... THAT is the kind of nonsensical myth i am arguing against...Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:sex was considered a sin by most cultures, i think
don't be vague... be explicit. WHICH cultures. it certainly was NOT considered a sin in animist societies... neither was it a sin in hindu society, and it is not a sin in both mahayana and theravada buddhist societies.
china also did not see sex as a sinful act... the were conservative and prudish, but they certainly acknowledged its existence as a legitimate biological function and though it is shrouded in confucian ideas of rites, family and responsibility, they certainly did not see it as sin.
as for homosexuality, hindu-buddhist cultures certainly almost NEVER had a problem with it. in tantric buddhism, sex was in fact, religious... shall not get into the kinky details here though.
and in theravada buddhism, sex was an attachment that was a potential source of temptation that distracted the individuals from attaining nirvana... nevertheless, sex was not a "sin"...
the whole pre-occupation of buddhism was not the redemption of sin, but the accumulation of merit.
in ancient greek society, they had an even more open attitude towards sex. sex CERTAINLY wasn't a sin there and one might even argue that they did not even have a strict conception of "gender" like us today. so homosexuality was certainly not an issue with them.
just read Ovid... there are several homosexual references.
so the very concept of "sin" strictly speaking, is judeo-christian... it is not universal.
the concept of sex as sin, is frankly speaking, misogynistic, hypocritical and plain dumb. -
CX,
So u like Heng resort to insulting me.Readers can now judge what kind of person u are.
Just make a small summary at this stage:
Is heterosexuallity right? YES!
Is homosexuality right? Some ppl say there is no right or wrong on this questio.If it is so,why can the first question be easily answered.
u have a big brain,u say there is no answer to this question.Do i need to ask a professor to tell u that u are absolutely wrong on this.Maybe you don't want to admit the answer to the question is "no" or u have too much knowledge to answer the question.Well, u don't know but a lot of ppl know the answer. -
Heng,
U hurled insults at me first.Then u think "an arrogant person cannot be very intelligent" is a personal attack on u.It is not an attack,it is a comment. -
CX,
U strongly think u are right.I also strong believe i'm right.Let the readers make their own verdicts
If u can't keep your cool,pls note there is no obligation for u to debate with me.If u want to debate, plse debate it rationally. -
Let me try to add a bit of my views here. This is quite a sensitive issue here and all comments should be objective and everyone should not take it as offensive.
Firstly, it doesnt mean that if anyone thinks something is wrong, that something is a crime. It is just like when a child sulks sometimes to get what he wants. Some would think thats wrong. Some would think it is cute. Many things are subjective. But sure, go ahead and think it is wrong. it is important to know that while we think something may be wrong but we do impose this on every single other person we meet.
Homosexuality is present from i dun noe since when. The reason why this topic seems to be very sensitive in recent times is because of the tension between the homosexuals and the heterosexuals.
Many homosexuals presumed that just because heterosexuals reject their sort of lifestyles, they are being discriminated. But, I would like to say that for MOST heterosexuals that when they speak out against gay marriages or stuff as such, it is not a discrimantion against the person but rather the discomfort at the moment with accepting such practices. We must understand that this is after all not a social norm. The way that most heterosexuals look at homosexuality is just like how we look at people who farts in public. I mean, its ok to fart and sure you have the right to fart in public but...we do feel weird and it just feel right to just fart loudly in public. Thus, homosexuals should not feel discouraged becos personally I love homosexuals as who they are. I may not agree to their lifestyles just as some people do not agree with my laidback lifestyle but yet I think they deserve a chance equal to mine in work, in leisure and in society.
Homosexuals should be patient because they should understand that though they have human rights, most people in society need time to adjust to ideas of gay couples getting married, of legalising sex between 2 same sex person. It is not something that people can get used to easily.
And i think homosexuals should be more confident of who they are. With confidence, they can show society that they are more than their sexual orientation. Sometimes, by pushing for something just because you have numbers on ur side and also using human rights, it may just backfired on you.
If you say I am against homosexuality, you are right. This is my personal view. But, any objections should be that of a intellectual sense. It should not be a physical objection, emotional objection. It is just like at work, i disagree with my superiors on many things but at the end of the day, we go out for drinks and we share with one another our problems at home. This is how heterosexuals should treat homosexuals. Even friends can agree to disagree.
My 2 cents worth. I am not interested to engage in any quarrel or debate of a total acceptance of homosexuality or total discrimination of it. But i would love total tolerance of one another. -
Originally posted by gasband:
that is a well balanced view and i certainly would not quarrel with that. but
My 2 cents worth. I am not interested to engage in any quarrel or debate of a total acceptance of homosexuality or total discrimination of it. But i would love total tolerance of one another.[/b]any objections should be that of a intellectual sense. It should not be a physical objection, emotional objection.
how can anyone intellectualise a sense of objection that IS essentially a physical and emotional response? at best, it would reek of hypocrisy... not that u're a hypocrit, but that i think your views needs to be clarified.
there are afterall, evidence that supports the notion that homosexuality, had as u mentioned, existed since goodness knows when, and that homophobia was essentially a state of mind that was constructed and imposed on pple and societies over time.
shouldn't such knowledge serve to debunk the myth of homophobia as a legitimate intellectual position?
i do acknowledge that society has strong views about homosexuality... but whether such views are grounded in facts or just simply fear and prejudice needs to be explored.
personally, i wouldn't force a person to accept homosexuality if that person simply holds the view that it is unacceptable to him / her... but i would like to hear what the basis of such feelings are.
if it is simply personal and emotional, then everyone is entitled to their own opinions... but if it rests on a weak and misplaced "intellectual" basis, then i think there's much to say about it. -
Originally posted by PRP:
i already told u... nobody's interested in your OPINION... show me the PROOF... WHY is hetrosexuality so right and WHY in your OPINION, is homosexuality so WRONG???
CX,
So u like Heng resort to insulting me.Readers can now judge what kind of person u are.
Just make a small summary at this stage:
Is heterosexuallity right? YES!
Is homosexuality right? Some ppl say there is no right or wrong on this questio.If it is so,why can the first question be easily answered.u have a big brain,u say there is no answer to this question.Do i need to ask a professor to tell u that u are absolutely wrong on this.Maybe you don't want to admit the answer to the question is "no" or u have too much knowledge to answer the question.Well, u don't know but a lot of ppl know the answer.
a lot of pple? who? everybody here is telling you "DON'T JUDGE!!!" ... u're the only one who die die wants a "right" / "wrong" answer with no consideration for the complexities of the situation involved. how very unscholarly of u.
ask a professor? for a right / wrong answer ??? hahaha ... sure... ask a scientist... or an engineer... as if they're qualified to answer this question... u'll never get a right / wrong answer from a sociologist, a historian or a philosopher.
just one question though... HAVE U asked a uni professor this question before? cos though they may have a PERSONAL opnion on the issue, they're not gonna ignore the ACADEMIC evidence that had been generated in the study of sexuality.
u think i just INVENT all that i've been saying so far?
sexuality is a field of academia that had been very aggressively persued over the past few decades. your views simply suggests blatant ignorance and shallow prejudices.
and why ask a professor to tell me that i'm wrong? can't YOU prove that i'm wrong if your views are so damn right???
you are interestedf in having a debate on perceptions on sexuality and i've shown u proof that what we think and believe today are not without loopholes.
all i've been saying to YOU is "WHERE IS YOUR PROOF???" -
Morality is mostly BS, and a dream we humans created for ourselves.
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hahaha u sure its a comment? u sure its smart to issue a statement on me when u dun even know me?Originally posted by PRP:Heng,
U hurled insults at me first.Then u think "an arrogant person cannot be very intelligent" is a personal attack on u.It is not an attack,it is a comment.
then all i can say is "look, another one joins the tua kang club"
pls show statement that i am:
1) arrogant
2) not very intelligent
and if u want advice, here... if im u i'd back down because, well, i gurantee u'd lose on at least one count.
give u a chance to get off the stage before u r forced to eat your "comments"