wat do you think is lacking...
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in the education system for students who are not in the express / special stream?
from primary school all the way to ITE (if they get into poly eventually, they would haf in a sense "joined" those who were in express).
wat do you think could be done to improve the education for this group of youngsters? wat do they want from education?
and any other related comments are welcomed too. -
actually, i personally believe that our education system needs to be torn down and reconstructed from scratch. in it, we have far too many colonial constructs and "traditions" that need to be removed.Originally posted by wuming78:in the education system for students who are not in the express / special stream?
from primary school all the way to ITE (if they get into poly eventually, they would haf in a sense "joined" those who were in express).
wat do you think could be done to improve the education for this group of youngsters? wat do they want from education?
and any other related comments are welcomed too.
for one, the streaming system needs to be destroyed. In place of that, we could have more elective programmes. for these programmes, admission should be freely open. That way, everyoen gets to benefit.
guess that's all, in a nutshell.
pikamaster -
well i am glad i came from a neighbourhood school and went to ITE. without the education and the people i met there... i wouldn't be where i am today.
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tts good. but for urself, the route tt u took, wat do u think could haf been done better?Originally posted by kopiosatu:well i am glad i came from a neighbourhood school and went to ITE. without the education and the people i met there... i wouldn't be where i am today. -
the education system is undergoing a lot of changes now... sometimes too drastic and too swift too.
this is partially due to the external influences and the claim to be educational excellence for all...
expect more changes to come
_______________________
sgboy2004, the Good Boi
Croco Corner
Croco Movie -
but u realise alot of these changes are targeted at those performing kids, those whom the system is already taking good care of them. wat about those who are not so academically inclined? they still need education. but why is it that none of these improvements are targeted at them?Originally posted by sgboy2004:the education system is undergoing a lot of changes now... sometimes too drastic and too swift too.
this is partially due to the external influences and the claim to be educational excellence for all...
expect more changes to come
_______________________
sgboy2004, the Good Boi
Croco Corner
Croco Movie
hence my thread is to gather views on wat kind of improvements they deserve too, along wif all the current changes. -
nothing actually, during that time i was just pissed that i didn't make it to poly. Now that i think of it, i was glad i didn't for i might have a different mindset and the route i took in NS would have been affected.Originally posted by wuming78:tts good. but for urself, the route tt u took, wat do u think could haf been done better? -
i mus say u made it good man!Originally posted by kopiosatu:nothing actually, during that time i was just pissed that i didn't make it to poly. Now that i think of it, i was glad i didn't for i might have a different mindset and the route i took in NS would have been affected.
at least it shows tt the system works even for those who are not as good in studying. but i realli hope more can be done for them. -
I would consider myself sibeh heng.Originally posted by wuming78:i mus say u made it good man! at least it shows tt the system works even for those who are not as good in studying. but i realli hope more can be done for them.
i can't speak for the rest though, i went through the route i didn't want, in the end i got what i wanted. -
ok ok i just saw the other topic...
The question is, not what is lacking. Its the extra things they teach.
Personally during secondary school, I hated science, yet its one of the core subjects. I hated literature, yet it was a subject i had to take.
I loved technical, but being good at only one subject isn't gonna help much during my O levels.
In the end, i went to ITE.
I guess the government feels that those who are better with hands and less so with studies should head to ITE. Recently you see them trying to promote ITE as a premier institute, BUT because it used to be VITB that why there's this stereotype hanging over the head of ITE.
I wanted to say something about degrees but i'm too lazy to type, hahahah! -
so i guess u mean students should be able to choose wat they wan to do, apart from wat is necessary to get to say ITE, esp for those who dun realli like studying but like technical / related subj?Originally posted by kopiosatu:ok ok i just saw the other topic...
The question is, not what is lacking. Its the extra things they teach.
Personally during secondary school, I hated science, yet its one of the core subjects. I hated literature, yet it was a subject i had to take.
I loved technical, but being good at only one subject isn't gonna help much during my O levels.
In the end, i went to ITE.
I guess the government feels that those who are better with hands and less so with studies should head to ITE. Recently you see them trying to promote ITE as a premier institute, BUT because it used to be VITB that why there's this stereotype hanging over the head of ITE.
I wanted to say something about degrees but i'm too lazy to type, hahahah! -
i say abolish JCs.
integrate the tertiary institutes together to form 1 mega institute, , upon graduation each student will have a diploma, upon further studies, they will have a degree, and so on. use each campus for different specialisations, -> NYP & IT, NP & bio, TP & design, etc..
and since we don't have JCs we can scrap the O and A levels too. remove streaming from pri and sec school, integrate science, commerce, arts and science together.
let the students choose whatever subjects they want to study. the subjects they choose to study must be relevant to the course they intend to apply for in poly. -
I have no problems with the physical structure of the Education System itself.
However, it will do this country a lot more justice if the focus and interpretation of ‘education’ can shift from the current paradigm which places dominant preference over the mere regurgitation of text and formulas to one which actually promotes reflection, investigation, understanding and finally improvements onto an existing concept, theory or awareness.
What’s the point of having a 100% pass percentage for all PSLE, GCE ‘N’, ‘O’, ‘A’, polytechnic diploma, and university degree examination candidates when the promotion onto each level is based predominantly from memory regurgitations?
I will rather see fundamental stages of the Education System focusing more heavily in the communication of essential understanding on areas say, in English, the structure of Grammar, usage of Vocabulary, the manner of sentence constructions as well as life skills such as working well together in groups, individual abilities on self expression and heavier emphasis on moral and ethics values.
Review the structure.
Improve it into one which places more emphasis on true learning.
And there is also no need to really place super stringent and ‘mission impossible’ type of examination time limits on young students.
Even if a student might really understand a subject, he / she could still fail a paper because he / she might be having difficulties in trying to express themselves out in writing.
Of course weÂ’re not talking about giving students a 6 hours duration for a simple primary 5 Math paper. But fundamentally, the understanding is that is the students know the answers, they will be allowed the chance to communicate that understanding on a subject fully and eventually.
And in the event that they really lack in necessary knowledge, then the answer script will still remain a clean blank even if we allow a student to camp in the classroom for one week. -
in fact i would say the education system has been moving in this general direction away from rote learning.Originally posted by [ Neo ]:I have no problems with the physical structure of the Education System itself.
However, it will do this country a lot more justice if the focus and interpretation of ‘education’ can shift from the current paradigm which places dominant preference over the mere regurgitation of text and formulas to one which actually promotes reflection, investigation, understanding and finally improvements onto an existing concept, theory or awareness.
What’s the point of having a 100% pass percentage for all PSLE, GCE ‘N’, ‘O’, ‘A’, polytechnic diploma, and university degree examination candidates when the promotion onto each level is based predominantly from memory regurgitations?
I will rather see fundamental stages of the Education System focusing more heavily in the communication of essential understanding on areas say, in English, the structure of Grammar, usage of Vocabulary, the manner of sentence constructions as well as life skills such as working well together in groups, individual abilities on self expression and heavier emphasis on moral and ethics values.
however, my topic here really focuses on the "non-mainstream" education - kids who are not entirely academically inclined.
do you think the same type of changes would benefit these kids? -
I get where you are heading. Guess I might have not been exactly clear in my earlier post. Apologize for that.Originally posted by wuming78:in fact i would say the education system has been moving in this general direction away from rote learning.
however, my topic here really focuses on the "non-mainstream" education - kids who are not entirely academically inclined.
do you think the same type of changes would benefit these kids?
Anyway back to the topic proper, I was actually thinking along the line that if the current screening process could have been improved upon, then we might not even have the current pool size of ‘less-academically-inclined’ students.
For all we know, it could be well be a matter of sufficient time for the effective communication of understanding currently allowed in the existing examination structure and duration which may be inaccurately classifying students into the above mentioned categories.
Regardless of that particular concern for the moment, I believe the main interest that you are looking forward for discussion would be whether we should have an alternate system that in theory, is supposed to be better and more effective in maximizing the full talent and potential of these ‘Less-Academically-Inclined’ (herein after referred to as ‘LAI’) students.
The notion if implemented, would probably come as something similar like the recent Sports or Art Schools? Except that this alternate system will cater mainly for LAI Students of course.
Ideally, the allowing of more time and slowing of teaching pace should be something which can be viewed as beneficial to the LAI students.
However, taking into considerations that this will actually be something which involves even more drastic and significant of an even more in-depth form of ‘Streaming’ for the students, my personal view is that it would probably be better if we remain as of the current path – which is to continue having all EM1, EM2 and EM3 students housed under a single school AND to gradually do away with the untimely streaming process at the primary school level.
If we are truly sincere in making proper improvements to the general Education System, then we should strive along this paradigm shift with the reminder to keep the level of unnecessary stress level low and to maximize real learning under a more generous and flexible pace, WITHOUT compromise to invisible but important concerns such as taking into account how an identified LAI student may view or be viewed upon by his /her immediate surrounding environment.
To do this, a possible arrangement could be to introduce and extend flexi-learning hours in schools after the official school hours.
To do this, participating schools should first have a single session which officially should end by 1300hr.
With one hour of break allowed for meal and relaxing, Flexi-learning time can commence after 1400hr with a DIFFERENT teacher who is not responsible for the normal classroom time teaching of the subjects to the particular class of students.
A ideal Flexi-learning class can be grouped according to subjects, and the students in it made up of the various classrooms from the same level.
Apart from promoting lateral interaction opportunities, the self confidence of students could be raised when stigmas about EM1 students being extremely smart and EM3 students being lousy in studies can also be corrected more easily thru the students’ efforts in communications as well. In a way, parents can also sigh a breath of relief when they know that their children will no longer need to be tagged with a very distinctive and perceptional disadvantage of being publicly declared a ‘LAI’ student, i.e. EM3.
Having a teacher who does not teaches the levelsÂ’ normal classes also helps to ensure that inherent skeptics or perspectives about a studentÂ’s can be more effectively minimized to a level where the occurrence of teacher biasness can be better controlled.
In implementation, the Flexi-Learning class should be made open to walk-in volunteers so as to convey clear that such classes are not remedial in nature, but rather, a more in-depth and relaxed alternate pace of learning opportunity. For identified LAI students however, they should be involved under as a compulsory practice.
The concept of Flexi-Learning does not only apply merely to academic related areas. Alternatively, variety of non-examinable but personal improving course could also be introduced to students under this mechanism.
For the Science avid, more complex and non-curriculum covered areas such as basic botany could be introduced earlier to interested takers who need not fear learning as a phenomena which will ALWAYS come to be associated with an examination at the end of the course.
While the above in mention only covers Operational concerns, we do need to take into account that there will still be an Administrative burden which existing teachers in schools are unlikely to carry on in additional to their already packed spectrum of duties.
Hence this is just a note to acknowledge that in order for the Flexi-Learning alternative to be introduced or even work, consideration and re-design of existing systems in place will also have to be tweaked along for the fine tuning of the entire concept. -
Something need to be done for those who drop out of school early without even doing their "N' level. I know of someone like that, she drop out without doing her "N' level, is now hanging around at home & the parents are at their wits end cos at 17, she is too young to work & has no qualifications. They tried enrolling her in pte. sch but she is not interested in studying. Maybe they should be allowed to choose the subjects that interest them & can help them to earn a living.
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Why bother? Real changes will only occur when the ONE shows up.
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i agree.Originally posted by gerrykoh:Something need to be done for those who drop out of school early without even doing their "N' level. I know of someone like that, she drop out without doing her "N' level, is now hanging around at home & the parents are at their wits end cos at 17, she is too young to work & has no qualifications. They tried enrolling her in pte. sch but she is not interested in studying. Maybe they should be allowed to choose the subjects that interest them & can help them to earn a living.
for those who can remain within the school system at least they are engaged.
for those who cannot even remain in school there should be avenues for them - vocational training (subsidised), apprenticeship, temp job, etc.
but for those who are underaged to work and who have dropped out of school... hm.. any suggestions? -
i agree that whatever change in the system has to be supported by a parallel change in mindset.Originally posted by [ Neo ]:If we are truly sincere in making proper improvements to the general Education System, then we should strive along this paradigm shift with the reminder to keep the level of unnecessary stress level low and to maximize real learning under a more generous and flexible pace, WITHOUT compromise to invisible but important concerns such as taking into account how an identified LAI student may view or be viewed upon by his /her immediate surrounding environment.
To do this, a possible arrangement could be to introduce and extend flexi-learning hours in schools after the official school hours.
To do this, participating schools should first have a single session which officially should end by 1300hr.
With one hour of break allowed for meal and relaxing, Flexi-learning time can commence after 1400hr with a DIFFERENT teacher who is not responsible for the normal classroom time teaching of the subjects to the particular class of students.
A ideal Flexi-learning class can be grouped according to subjects, and the students in it made up of the various classrooms from the same level.
Apart from promoting lateral interaction opportunities, the self confidence of students could be raised when stigmas about EM1 students being extremely smart and EM3 students being lousy in studies can also be corrected more easily thru the students’ efforts in communications as well. In a way, parents can also sigh a breath of relief when they know that their children will no longer need to be tagged with a very distinctive and perceptional disadvantage of being publicly declared a ‘LAI’ student, i.e. EM3.
Having a teacher who does not teaches the levelsÂ’ normal classes also helps to ensure that inherent skeptics or perspectives about a studentÂ’s can be more effectively minimized to a level where the occurrence of teacher biasness can be better controlled.
In implementation, the Flexi-Learning class should be made open to walk-in volunteers so as to convey clear that such classes are not remedial in nature, but rather, a more in-depth and relaxed alternate pace of learning opportunity. For identified LAI students however, they should be involved under as a compulsory practice.
The concept of Flexi-Learning does not only apply merely to academic related areas. Alternatively, variety of non-examinable but personal improving course could also be introduced to students under this mechanism.
For the Science avid, more complex and non-curriculum covered areas such as basic botany could be introduced earlier to interested takers who need not fear learning as a phenomena which will ALWAYS come to be associated with an examination at the end of the course.
While the above in mention only covers Operational concerns, we do need to take into account that there will still be an Administrative burden which existing teachers in schools are unlikely to carry on in additional to their already packed spectrum of duties.
Hence this is just a note to acknowledge that in order for the Flexi-Learning alternative to be introduced or even work, consideration and re-design of existing systems in place will also have to be tweaked along for the fine tuning of the entire concept.
if our people are going to be fixated over the form rather than the substance then a perfect system wont get us anywhere.
your idea of a flexi-learning system sounds interesting! in the end what we would like to do, i think, is to cater to the learning needs of these group of students, and more importantly their interests and strengths.
but more importantly we have to send the clear message that being less academically achieved does not equate you to a failure in our society - and u do not need to be the best in sports, music, arts etc too.
what is important is for all to excel to the best of each's ability.
but of course again, this would require the concurrent support from society to absorb these students whatever their background and level of strengths.
but would the mainstream consider putting resources into this area? or remain status quo?
it depends on the priorities of our people and the leadership.
and im afraid there is a strong opinion to develop and reap on the top x% of the cohort, who will lead and pull the rest along, rather than spread more resources to push up the bottom. the disparity will exist and even widen.
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With regards to your remarks highlighted in red, I believe your statement have effectively sum up what Education is and should really be all about.Originally posted by wuming78:i agree that whatever change in the system has to be supported by a parallel change in mindset.
if our people are going to be fixated over the form rather than the substance then a perfect system wont get us anywhere.
your idea of a flexi-learning system sounds interesting! in the end what we would like to do, i think, is to cater to the learning needs of these group of students, and more importantly their interests and strengths.
but more importantly we have to send the clear message that being less academically achieved does not equate you to a failure in our society - and u do not need to be the best in sports, music, arts etc too.
what is important is for all to excel to the best of each's ability.
but of course again, this would require the concurrent support from society to absorb these students whatever their background and level of strengths.
but would the mainstream consider putting resources into this area? or remain status quo?
it depends on the priorities of our people and the leadership.
and im afraid there is a strong opinion to develop and reap on the top x% of the cohort, who will lead and pull the rest along, rather than spread more resources to push up the bottom. the disparity will exist and even widen.
As for those in blue, I am not sure about your stance.
For me however, I see our race as one which is against Time and Furiously Competing Talents.
We face tremendous pressure from the arise of new economic engines that are currently being built with greater relevance to the technologies and global trends as compared to our slightly older version, masterplanned several decades ago.
To remain passive, await changes and improvements to our systems from the Top where Change is traditionally initated from.
This will be a suicidal phenomena for us - under present day situation.
Sometimes things must be initaited from us - nobodies from the bottom of the foodchain.
We have to try evolutionise these changes, and not force change into effect through sudden revoluntionary styles.
If we fail in such effort once, nevermind.
If we fail again, then nevermind too.
And if we were to fail again for the third time, nevermind that too as we would have already gotten used to the feel of being rejected.
What matters is that as civil servants, our loyalty remains - with the best interest / welfare of the People conscientiously placed as the highest priority throughout the discharge of our duties. -
Originally posted by [ Neo ]:
first: u a civil servant too?
With regards to your remarks highlighted in red, I believe your statement have effectively sum up what Education [b]is and should really be all about.
As for those in blue, I am not sure about your stance.
For me however, I see our race as one which is against Time and Furiously Competing Talents.
We face tremendous pressure from the arise of new economic engines that are currently being built with greater relevance to the technologies and global trends as compared to our slightly older version, masterplanned several decades ago.
To remain passive, await changes and improvements to our systems from the Top where Change is traditionally initated from.
This will be a suicidal phenomena for us - under present day situation.
Sometimes things must be initaited from us - nobodies from the bottom of the foodchain.
We have to try evolutionise these changes, and not force change into effect through sudden revoluntionary styles.
If we fail in such effort once, nevermind.
If we fail again, then nevermind too.
And if we were to fail again for the third time, nevermind that too as we would have already gotten used to the feel of being rejected.
What matters is that as civil servants, our loyalty remains - with the best interest / welfare of the People conscientiously placed as the highest priority throughout the discharge of our duties.[/b]
secondly, ok.. let's see if i got u correctly. u r saying tt in these testing times we need to be nimble and flexible and also willing to change rather than wait for change to be imposed on us. so if i understand u correctly, rather than change the system, u hope tt people who make up the system bring about change in their own ways, hopefully guided by the same priorities and aims with the well being of the people at heart.
yes indeed the people who make up the system has to be willing to initiate and carry change. but this doesnt mean the system should be left alone.
wat i had lamented above, is the fact tt current priorities of the leadership, and perhaps even the people, is to put in our resources to bring up the best, even when they are already very good. the rest will just have to follow along - kicking, resisting, crying, limping, tts too bad.
why cant we push up the bottom while pulling up the top? is it really a zero sum game?
perhaps if the change in system or increase in support is never going to come, wat u espouse as the people being change agents, change being initiated and carried on the ground - basically the self-help spirit, will certainly be important.
but tt is second best for these group of people. why cant we do something for them too - afterall we have been doing so much for the mainstream. wat happens to those who fall through the cracks?
of course, tt is my opinion - tt wat is being done for these students is insufficient, tt more can be done for them. i could be wrong. tt's why i posted this thread, to seek opinions on where the gaps are and how we can bridge them. -
In reply to your first enquiry, yes, I am one too – from the bottom most of the food chain.Originally posted by wuming78:first: u a civil servant too?
secondly, ok.. let's see if i got u correctly. u r saying tt in these testing times we need to be nimble and flexible and also willing to change rather than wait for change to be imposed on us. so if i understand u correctly, rather than change the system, u hope tt people who make up the system bring about change in their own ways, hopefully guided by the same priorities and aims with the well being of the people at heart.
yes indeed the people who make up the system has to be willing to initiate and carry change. but this doesnt mean the system should be left alone.
wat i had lamented above, is the fact tt current priorities of the leadership, and perhaps even the people, is to put in our resources to bring up the best, even when they are already very good. the rest will just have to follow along - kicking, resisting, crying, limping, tts too bad.
why cant we push up the bottom while pulling up the top? is it really a zero sum game?
perhaps if the change in system or increase in support is never going to come, wat u espouse as the people being change agents, change being initiated and carried on the ground - basically the self-help spirit, will certainly be important.
but tt is second best for these group of people. why cant we do something for them too - afterall we have been doing so much for the mainstream. wat happens to those who fall through the cracks?
of course, tt is my opinion - tt wat is being done for these students is insufficient, tt more can be done for them. i could be wrong. tt's why i posted this thread, to seek opinions on where the gaps are and how we can bridge them.
And just to set the record straight, I am only making opinions in here from the perspective as an ordinary person.
On the second note, you have in essence grasped the main points of my earlier post. And just to rectify on a particular misconception above also, I am for any suitable changes to the System as well.
The only concern that I have expressed above is that I feel an Evolutionary paced style of Change would come to be better accepted by the general public, and on controlling concerns, more effectively and efficiently manageable as compared to those which belonged to a Revolutionary style.
Coming on to the concern with regards to the cluster of population who may not be able to follow up with the pace of the Mainstream and be falling through the gaps, we have to acknowledge that this is actually not a simple or isolated matter to take care.
Going back to a couple of extracts that both you and gerrykoh has provided us with in some of the earlier posts above, gerrykoh has actually mentioned a young 17 year old girl who is without qualifications and without interest in studying, while you raised a concern on what nature of help could be made available for those who are1) underage to work and 2) whom have dropped out of school.
What is worth noting from the two different cases above is that while gerrykohÂ’s example involved someone without the market deemed appropriate qualification, the subject in mention is however, of legal age to work.
By the longitudinal view, it is without a doubt that gaining employment for the young lady would be a severe challenge given todayÂ’s employer expectations.
But so long as the young lady is WILLING to lower her expectations on her beginning working career path, she will still hold a chance of gaining success eventually over the long run – should she preserve and work on diligently towards her goals.
The doors of Education in Singapore, fortunately remains relatively open to most even when they can be way pass the typical student age.
For the young lady, the avenues for her to return back into a private school once more for her ‘N’ or ‘O’ levels, an ITE certificate, a polytechnic diploma, or even a basic degree. These avenues and opportunities has always been open to people of higher age as we may see from working class in age 30s and 40s furthering their knowledge in ITE or polytechnic night classes.
Returning back to your example of someone who is underage and out of school however, when the Law prescribes the minimum age allowed for a minor to work, the stipulated age limits stays, irregardless of who the employers are – be them from the Private or Public sector.
This could be a sad fact, but we must remain firm that there can be no double standards allowed.
The vacuum which is created in the example is regrettable.
Under such circumstances, the only possible option that comes to mind at the moment might only be to intervene INDIRECTLY to effective eradicate on the possible arise of such scenarios again.
A possible stoppage to such scenarios could be enforced through extend the duration and coverage of Compulsory Education in Singapore from its current six years coverage over primary education, to an additional of 4 years over secondary education to make up on a minimum of 10 years compulsory education.
Not only will this extension serve to provide a more realistic match to the minimum level of Education that the population in Singapore will require in order to stay relevant to the changing world, the extension can also go on to ensure that under all possible worst case scenarios – even the most academically un-inclined student will still be educated to at least a ‘N’ level qualification, even if it means he / she may only have 3 or 4 subject passes.
The mere possession of a GCE ‘N’ level certification can at least help to open doors to positions in basic office or secretary work. This in turn, improves and better ensures on higher survivability rate for a ‘LAI’ individual for a worst case scenario when he / she will need to fend for their livelihood after coming out from school and they do not receive any more form of Education from then onwards.
While it will be truly a challenge to fully address and attempt to extend a helping hand out to every single one of those whom may have unfortunately fallen through such gaps away from the Mainstream, the minimum help that the public sector may in the least offer to this particular group in conjunction to the above, would be to open employment opportunity doors for low complexity jobs such as those of a Corporate Support nature.
With the candidature selection criteria preference REVERSED, the selecting job seeking candidates as based on those with the lowest BUT within the established qualification criteria parameters and on age factor, e.g. giving selection preference on an open position to a 40 years old over a 20 years old, this will all be a form of help to LAI individuals.
The principles for the above should be based on considerations with regards to qualifications, age and factors like, in comparative assessment to the probability chances of the same candidate securing another job out in the private sector.
On ending note, my personal opinion is that the task and responsibility of ‘pulling the bottom up’ should be more of the responsibilities of the Elites.
Under the Doctrines of Sun Tze, a country as akin to an organizational body, establish Elite Systems because upon training, an Elite can then disseminate, pass on, and handle knowledge and order of diversified natures downwards in a more effective and efficient manner as compared to multiple directives coming straight down from only a centralized source.
Since such is the order, and having been armed with better and more accurate understanding on the actual conditions going on at the Ground level, Elitists should bear on their shoulders, more of such inherited responsibilities and to constantly review and introduced improvements and relief changes to the respective system or field which they either be leading or charged with the care of .
And reverting this into the education-related context of our discussion, perhaps this could imply something by the relevant policy analysts maybe?
Change need not always come one way only from the CRPP. -
wah.. ur reply super long... mind if u can highlight the main points and main ideas?
going to reply oni later.. -
Don't worry too much about main points or ideas. You can just take my post as a casual read.Originally posted by wuming78:wah.. ur reply super long... mind if u can highlight the main points and main ideas?
going to reply oni later..
And take your time to reply. We're not in an exam. -
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