Where's all our CPF money gone to?
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Why can't we ask the whereabouts of our CPF savings? Is it so wrong to insist government show us what it is doing with OUR MONEY ?
And why is GIC so afraid to reveal the sums? Government's explaination ("afraid of financial sabotage...) is so stupid even a fool won't believe it!
Should'nt CPF board show the account books and assure Singaporeans that their CPF savings are in safe hands - or properly invested?
Who should be held accountable if GIC invest CPF money and lost heavily?
Will we ever know about such bad investments that went very wrong?
x x x x x x x x
Academic warns Singapore must overhaul CPF..
By Jame DiBiasio 06 September 2000
" Tinkering with the Central Provident Fund's parameters won't be enough to meet Singapore's social security goals.
The Singaporean government must stop its implicit taxation of its citizens through the Central Provident Fund (CPF) and give more weight to its fiduciary responsibility to them if Singapore is to sufficiently provide for its aged, says Mukul Asher, professor of public policy at National University of Singapore. He estimates that by 1998, the average balance members could withdraw upon retirement had declined to the equivalent of a mere 10 months' wages.
The table below illustrates this problem. Asher calculates the average monthly wage for a Singaporean, both including the CPF contribution and without, and the estimated lump sum that members will withdraw from CPF upon retirement. The problem is especially acute for women: Asher's numbers are a median between the higher salaries of men and the lower salaries of women. Considering Singapore has been a high-growth economy for decades, the numbers are alarming.
For table please Refer: http://www.sfdonline.org/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/Political%20Freedom/financea060900.html
CPF funds are invested by the Singapore government through vehicles such as the Singapore Government Investment Corp. (SGIC), Asher believes. The government does not say how CPF funds are invested, on what criteria or what returns they achieve. Although many observers have guessed the government invests CPF funds directly into infrastructure and public housing, Asher says the numbers don't support this view: it has persistently run large budget surpluses. That has led him to suspect CPF funds are largely invested offshore.
The professor cites anonymous SGIC executives as saying it aims for an inflation-adjusted annual return of 3-4% in Singapore dollar terms. He assumes if a 3.5% annual return was achieved from 1987 to 1999, when the average actual return to CPF members was 0.88%, then Singaporean citizens are being implicitly taxed the remaining 2.62% return, or S$2.3 billion ($1.4 billion) -- the equivalent of 20.9% of corporate and personal income tax revenue in 1999.
Government officials accept the need for change, Asher says. But so far the options they have floated, such as raising contribution rates allowed in accounts with higher interest rates or increasing the withdrawal age, are going to have only a minimum impact. The additional contributions required by individuals to sustain a monthly income in retirement of two-thirds their working salary are so high as to be unrealistic. �"Unless [the government] is willing to end the implicit taxation of CPF wealth, and unless it increases the weight given to its fiduciary responsibility to its members, the progress towards providing the adequate replacement rate will be limited," he says.
He calls for more public accountability for how CPF funds are invested and their returns, and for allowing CPF members to choose among allocations of varying risk. Individual annuity markets or similar options must also be developed. Asher will present his findings in Rayong, Thailand at a seminar sponsored by the World Bank and Thailand's Ministry of Finance later this month. -
They are all cover up,u will never get the answer.
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CPF is just a number game where someone show you the number 6mth or so and you feel happy abt it
for those in 30 now do you think you will still get to see your CPF... or i should say your money when you reach retirement age?(by the way no one know when the garment will set the new retirement age the next time.)
correct me if I am wrong, by 2013 all retired CPF member must have 120k or 125k in CPF only the balance can be withdraw. and after 2013 CPF going to increase the number every year.
now to 2013, that is 9 more year to go and for those in 30 you have 30 to 35 more year to go before you retired. What do you think by than the limit will be
For those who have got a flat most likely CPF will be at $0. say you 1mth pay is 3k (now where to find for some) 20% is to $600 + your boss say same 20%, another $600 making it $1.2k x 12mth = $14.4k x 9 years = 129.6k of which abt 72% that is abt 93.3k in ordinary account. 93.3k is the number that have not deduct for the loan from HDB yet meaning when you are 39 your CPF will still be at $0. say CPF add 5% every year
so what do you think you chances of seeing you CPF money when you can so call take it out for retirement? For me, I dun see any, so I had stop contribute to CPF oredi by doing contract work.
1st I dun have to pay my 20% CPF meaning I get more in my pocket and 2nd the coy dun pay the 16% as well. by doing this I am oso helping the coy in cutting cost. I belived most coy will do that if you tell them and some will even pay you a bit more but still lesses than they pay CPF for you.
Facts
I need hard cash with me now than to see the number they send me ain't it? -
Ya, the present generation can forget abt. getting any money from CPF when we reaches 55 cos all our money already used up to buy homes/ children's edn. Our parents are luckier cos they get their homes very cheap, (terr. hse cost below $200K), know of many older people who retired & have $100K- $200K but not now.
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simply love the topic of CPF. i have been working for 13 years , still cant see any money inside after buying a HDB flats.
will we get to see our money again? I agree, prolly no. the education minister has started hint us we will be paying our uni fees by ourselves base on his statistic of subisdies 75% yet our uni students still pay $5000-$6000/year. it come to staggering $24k without subsidies to study in singapore? if our child study 4 year honours it mean $100K/child. if you have 2 child, $200k. we can jump off our precious HDB flats in no time.
if we let our child handle by themselves this amount, i dont think they can ever be free of debts, not to mention more problems for our birth rate.
will govt let our CPF pay for the uni fees for our child? if base on the top calculation, i dont think so because if they do, many elderly will use up their saving in no time and govt have to spent money on them for the elder age.
sound passimistic? my idea: buy a house in JB and working in singapore. for those not rich when they retire, migrate to thailand/ malaysia. for those rich and educated, stay and pay the govt. for those middle class, migrate australia/ NZ/canada. -
In simple English:
"It is there."
"Where?"
"There"
"Where? I can't see it."
"You will"
"When?"
"Someday"
"What?"
"Yes"
"I don't believe."
"How dare you"
"sorry"
"Don't think too much, don't slack, don't be complacent." -
Originally posted by miong:
in our CPF acct?!?!?
Why cant we have the legal right to ask the whereabouts of our CPF savings? Is it so wrong to ask what the government is doing with[b] OUR MONEY ?
Should'nt CPF board show the account books and assure Singaporeans that their CPF savings are in safe hands - or properly invested?
Who should be held accountable if GIC invest CPF money and lost heavily? Will we ever know about such bad investments that went very wrong?
[/b]
Isnt that obvious?!
HAhaha...okie guys, if u think u cant see ur CPF money...juz buy more expensive flat...at least make sure its all used up....
Buy large large flats...
or buy small small flat that is expensive.
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Originally posted by miong:
heard that in the future, can use CPF to buy car!!!
Why cant we have the legal right to ask the whereabouts of our CPF savings? Is it so wrong to ask what the government is doing with[b] OUR MONEY ?
Should'nt CPF board show the account books and assure Singaporeans that their CPF savings are in safe hands - or properly invested?
Who should be held accountable if GIC invest CPF money and lost heavily? Will we ever know about such bad investments that went very wrong?
[/b]
Waaaooooooooooooooooooo.................. -
u go wait long long......Originally posted by no_speeding:heard that in the future, can use CPF to buy car!!!
Waaaooooooooooooooooooo.................. -
Originally posted by miong:
No no no, for those who have tons of $$$ in CPF now better dun ask, if not later he really show you all lost how? either you stop or carry on, but for sure you will never see your CPF $$$ anymore.
Why can't we ask the whereabouts of our CPF savings? Is it so wrong to insist government show us what it is doing with[b] OUR MONEY ?
Should'nt CPF board show the account books and assure Singaporeans that their CPF savings are in safe hands - or properly invested?
Who should be held accountable if GIC invest CPF money and lost heavily? Will we ever know about such bad investments that went very wrong?
Go to: http://www.sfdonline.org/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/Political%20Freedom/financea060900.html
[/b]
Face it. we know, they know, nothing can be done, it not ours it belong to the the Lee empire. Law say so, so you comply. Why LAW say so, because paliament say so, Who Parliament? Haha it a cycle that goes on. -
Guys guys. ALrighty. This is all i know about your CPF thingy. Every working person has gotta have a % of his salary stored in a government account called CPF fund right? Then this person keeps on setting aside this % on and on until his retirement right? Then when he retires, the government gives back all his money.
So you people are GUARANTEEED to have your money returned right? So what's the big deal? Are you all afraid the gahmen won't give it back?
I dont see the issues, care 2 share? -
You sure you will get back all the $$$ you put so call aside? This year for those going or oredi retired need to put $80,000.00 in CPF and than he can oni withdraw the rest.Originally posted by men_@_arms:Guys guys. ALrighty. This is all i know about your CPF thingy. Every working person has gotta have a % of his salary stored in a government account called CPF fund right? Then this person keeps on setting aside this % on and on until his retirement right? Then when he retires, the government gives back all his money.
So you people are GUARANTEEED to have your money returned right? So what's the big deal? Are you all afraid the gahmen won't give it back?
I dont see the issues, care 2 share?
Do you math with what the new ruling than come back. To let you start off,
by 2013 if you are in your retirement age, you need $120,000.00 or $125,000.00 in CPF, the rest or what is left remain than you can withdraw out from CPF. After 2013 every year CPF going to add a small number of %.
So what will be the number be if it is year 2023 your CPF need before you can do a withdraw by than.
Let me remind you one thing, if you buy a flat at age 30, you CPF will start at 0 at you age 30 as all will be deduct to pay the 1st down. Retired at 60 so within 30 years how much can you put aside in the CPF? -
aiyo... you wan to complain?? you wan to hear my story??
I bought insurance investment plan with my CPF, insurance company took monie from MY CPF then got bill at end of year from CPF board asking me to pay interest for the monie I invested.... a few hundred dollars which will be deducted from my account.... you got the point, you pay interest for using yr own monie... wat logic? I think the garments calculator spoilt -
Actually they haf juz revised the min sum scheme amt to $84,500 this yr.Originally posted by Joshua1975:You sure you will get back all the $$$ you put so call aside? This year for those going or oredi retired need to put $80,000.00 in CPF and than he can oni withdraw the rest.
Do you math with what the new ruling than come back. To let you start off,
by 2013 if you are in your retirement age, you need $120,000.00 or $125,000.00 in CPF, the rest or what is left remain than you can withdraw out from CPF. After 2013 every year CPF going to add a small number of %.
So what will be the number be if it is year 2023 your CPF need before you can do a withdraw by than.
Let me remind you one thing, if you buy a flat at age 30, you CPF will start at 0 at you age 30 as all will be deduct to pay the 1st down. Retired at 60 so within 30 years how much can you put aside in the CPF?
briefly,in 2013, @age55 for one to be able to draw out the from the retirement acct( oa + sa),he must 1st clear the min sum scheme amt ,next the medisave min sum scheme of $25,000.then he is able to withdraw the remaining sum OVER AND ABOVE the Min Sum.Meaning if by then u haf $150,000 and the min.sum is $120,000 u can only draw out $30,000!!! the remainning $120,000 will be kept till age 62, den u will beable to withdraw it monthly till age 80.
however pls note that we are able to "claim" a max of 50% in this case to housing, thus 4 this case u juz need to haf $60,000 in yr retirement acct to clear the min sum scheme level, the other 60k is pleged to housing.
as for after the 1st downpayment, ur oa gets to zero...well there are ways to work round it
perfectly legal...pm me if u wanna noe more abt that.
hope that my input helps...
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Originally posted by my_name_is_Natasha:
hmm tats interesting...mind telling me if your insurance plan is those tat are 4 pure investment or those tat are actually like life insurance and endowment savings plan bought wif cash but only here u pay by cpf?
aiyo... you wan to complain?? you wan to hear my story??
I bought insurance investment plan with my CPF, insurance company took monie from [b]MY CPF then got bill at end of year from CPF board asking me to pay interest for the monie I invested.... a few hundred dollars which will be deducted from my account.... you got the point, you pay interest for using yr own monie... wat logic? I think the garments calculator spoilt[/b] -
Ok but isn't this $80,000 already metred out in the compulsory % of salary that you must set aside every month????Originally posted by Joshua1975:You sure you will get back all the $$$ you put so call aside? This year for those going or oredi retired need to put $80,000.00 in CPF and than he can oni withdraw the rest.
Do you math with what the new ruling than come back. To let you start off,
by 2013 if you are in your retirement age, you need $120,000.00 or $125,000.00 in CPF, the rest or what is left remain than you can withdraw out from CPF. After 2013 every year CPF going to add a small number of %.
So what will be the number be if it is year 2023 your CPF need before you can do a withdraw by than.
Let me remind you one thing, if you buy a flat at age 30, you CPF will start at 0 at you age 30 as all will be deduct to pay the 1st down. Retired at 60 so within 30 years how much can you put aside in the CPF?
I really don't see what the issue is, i don't understand? Can explain in more detail in english pls?
But it sounds to me like a "legal" tropico way the government uses to get $$$ from the people heh. I wonder if the govt has swiss bank accounts overseas. -
That is for ppl who is 46 now and by 2013 will than be 55. That is 9 more year for him to have more than $120,000 than he can withdraw the remain of 120k or he will have to wait 62. Now with the housing loan that most Singaporean need to pay, "MOST" I say again MOST will not be able to put aside that amount.Originally posted by ah san:Actually they haf juz revised the min sum scheme amt to $84,500 this yr.
briefly,in 2013, @age55 for one to be able to draw out the from the retirement acct( oa + sa),he must 1st clear the min sum scheme amt ,next the medisave min sum scheme of $25,000.then he is able to withdraw the remaining sum OVER AND ABOVE the Min Sum.Meaning if by then u haf $150,000 and the min.sum is $120,000 u can only draw out $30,000!!! the remainning $120,000 will be kept till age 62, den u will beable to withdraw it monthly till age 80.
however pls note that we are able to "claim" a max of 50% in this case to housing, thus 4 this case u juz need to haf $60,000 in yr retirement acct to clear the min sum scheme level, the other 60k is pleged to housing.
as for after the 1st downpayment, ur oa gets to zero...well there are ways to work round it perfectly legal...pm me if u wanna noe more abt that.
hope that my input helps...
And next for all those around 30 or 30 now, most likely retirement age will be at 60 and that another 30 years meaning 2034. By than what will be the amount be as after 2013 cpf going to add certain % on the min every year?
You still dun see yah, as mention MOST will not be able to have that amount. Why? garment keep asking ppl to be cleaner and get paid at $900 to $1300?
I have stopped CPF oredi. To me it a number game where I decided not to play with CPF anymore. -
y no go ask cpf ppl or your MP who spea gd english 2 u. than hor mayb u can below stand. Oh i 4get you not a SG as you writeOriginally posted by men_@_arms:Ok but isn't this $80,000 already metred out in the compulsory % of salary that you must set aside every month????
I really don't see what the issue is, i don't understand? Can explain in more detail in english pls?
But it sounds to me like a "legal" tropico way the government uses to get $$$ from the people heh. I wonder if the govt has swiss bank accounts overseas.This is all i know about your CPF thingy.
in ur prv post -
It's purely for investment... 5 yr period... but now haiz... dunno the profits can cover interest or not....Originally posted by ah san:hmm tats interesting...mind telling me if your insurance plan is those tat are 4 pure investment or those tat are actually like life insurance and endowment savings plan bought wif cash but only here u pay by cpf? -
So, has anyone any idea where our CPF and reserves are invested in ?
Is the whole thing making money or is it bleeding badly ? I know many Tamasek investments have lost heavily.
I also know Government makes most of it's money from Singaporeans for eg :
COE and HDB - the 2 biggest cash cows
......... there are others, too many to mention all in here. and maybe boring to those who already know. -
Just a out of point question
Let' say if a person surrenders citizenship of singapore for another country
do they get their cpf back or do they have to top up to get their cpf out'
does anyone know? -
I am not so sure your statement is correct. I took a look at the HDB financial report recently and they are bleeding as well, taking government grant every year. You may want to take a look at it yourself by going to the hdb website. They post it there. The statement looks strange to me though so maybe, someone who is more financially trained can interpret it better than me.Originally posted by miong:So, has anyone any idea where our CPF and reserves are invested in ?
Is the whole thing making money or is it bleeding badly ? I know many Tamasek investments have lost heavily.
I also know Government makes most of it's money from Singaporeans for eg :
COE and HDB - the 2 biggest cash cows
......... there are others, too many to mention all in here. and maybe boring to those who already know. -
From what I can vaguely remember, you can take out your $$ once you declare you will not be returning to Singapore (by signing some declaration form I think). Not too sure though.Originally posted by fymk:Just a out of point question
Let' say if a person surrenders citizenship of singapore for another country
do they get their cpf back or do they have to top up to get their cpf out'
does anyone know? -
If ppl are not comfortable leaving $$ into CPF, then just take out and invest in Unit Trusts. Can invest 100%, or 35% in stocks.
http://www.cpf.gov.sg/cpf_info/Benefits/Asset/cpfishdbk.asp#Q3
CPF guarantees 2.5 % interest. If personally can do better, then do it. Even banks don't give 2.5% risk free these days. Special Acct is 4%.. which is actually not bad. -
Originally posted by miong:
if u wan e ans, go ask them lo..
Why can't we ask the whereabouts of our CPF savings? Is it so wrong to insist government show us what it is doing with[b] OUR MONEY ?
And why is GIC so afraid to reveal the sums? Government's explaination ("afraid of financial sabotage...) is so stupid even a fool won't believe it!
Should'nt CPF board show the account books and assure Singaporeans that their CPF savings are in safe hands - or properly invested?
Who should be held accountable if GIC invest CPF money and lost heavily?
Will we ever know about such bad investments that went very wrong?
x x x x x x x x
Academic warns Singapore must overhaul CPF..
By Jame DiBiasio 06 September 2000
" Tinkering with the Central Provident Fund's parameters won't be enough to meet Singapore's social security goals.
The Singaporean government must stop its implicit taxation of its citizens through the Central Provident Fund (CPF) and give more weight to its fiduciary responsibility to them if Singapore is to sufficiently provide for its aged, says Mukul Asher, professor of public policy at National University of Singapore. He estimates that by 1998, the average balance members could withdraw upon retirement had declined to the equivalent of a mere 10 months' wages.
The table below illustrates this problem. Asher calculates the average monthly wage for a Singaporean, both including the CPF contribution and without, and the estimated lump sum that members will withdraw from CPF upon retirement. The problem is especially acute for women: Asher's numbers are a median between the higher salaries of men and the lower salaries of women. Considering Singapore has been a high-growth economy for decades, the numbers are alarming.
For table please Refer: http://www.sfdonline.org/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/Political%20Freedom/financea060900.html
CPF funds are invested by the Singapore government through vehicles such as the Singapore Government Investment Corp. (SGIC), Asher believes. The government does not say how CPF funds are invested, on what criteria or what returns they achieve. Although many observers have guessed the government invests CPF funds directly into infrastructure and public housing, Asher says the numbers don't support this view: it has persistently run large budget surpluses. That has led him to suspect CPF funds are largely invested offshore.
The professor cites anonymous SGIC executives as saying it aims for an inflation-adjusted annual return of 3-4% in Singapore dollar terms. He assumes if a 3.5% annual return was achieved from 1987 to 1999, when the average actual return to CPF members was 0.88%, then Singaporean citizens are being implicitly taxed the remaining 2.62% return, or S$2.3 billion ($1.4 billion) -- the equivalent of 20.9% of corporate and personal income tax revenue in 1999.
Government officials accept the need for change, Asher says. But so far the options they have floated, such as raising contribution rates allowed in accounts with higher interest rates or increasing the withdrawal age, are going to have only a minimum impact. The additional contributions required by individuals to sustain a monthly income in retirement of two-thirds their working salary are so high as to be unrealistic. �"Unless [the government] is willing to end the implicit taxation of CPF wealth, and unless it increases the weight given to its fiduciary responsibility to its members, the progress towards providing the adequate replacement rate will be limited," he says.
He calls for more public accountability for how CPF funds are invested and their returns, and for allowing CPF members to choose among allocations of varying risk. Individual annuity markets or similar options must also be developed. Asher will present his findings in Rayong, Thailand at a seminar sponsored by the World Bank and Thailand's Ministry of Finance later this month.
[/b] or even sue them for not letting u know wheres ur own earn money gone 2...