DIPLOMA USELESS IN SINGAPORE
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Been quite fed up recently. I just ORD from army last year and have been holding a temp job until recently. Been looking around for another admin job since my diploma was in business but to no avail! I notice that people with no diploma also get about the same pay as us so whats the point of getting one. I thought of getting a degree but I am now having second thoughts as most companies do not like you to study. Now wonder they say Singapore only cares about the rich people. They think all the kids out there can afford to get a university degree full time is it! Plus the guys with well to do families have an advantage as they usually defer their NS to go U. That means they still can get to study for 3 whole years in peace. What about us poly guys? Have to serve NS liabilties at the risk of still finding a job. Too bad only highly educated people can migrate overseas. I don't think I will hesitate if given the chance! At least they don't have the mindset that "you should know your place in life" like companies here.[/b]
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Originally posted by Xenthar:
Nowadays, banks even hire degree holders for bank teller positions lor. The job market is so depressed and employers know now is the right time to hire degree holders and pay them diploma-like salaries. Likewise, for diploma holders, they have to be contented with 'leftover' jobs that has lousy remuneration.
Been quite fed up recently. I just ORD from army last year and have been holding a temp job until recently. Been looking around for another admin job since my diploma was in business but to no avail! I notice that people with no diploma also get about the same pay as us so whats the point of getting one. I thought of getting a degree but I am now having second thoughts as most companies do not like you to study. Now wonder they say Singapore only cares about the rich people. They think all the kids out there can afford to get a university degree full time is it! Plus the guys with well to do families have an advantage as they usually defer their NS to go U. That means they still can get to study for 3 whole years in peace. What about us poly guys? Have to serve NS liabilties at the risk of still finding a job. Too bad only highly educated people can migrate overseas. I don't think I will hesitate if given the chance! At least they don't have the mindset that "you should know your place in life" like companies here.[/b]
By the way, will like to advise people who are thinking of taking up distance learning to consider carefully. If possible, try to go for local or foreign on-campus studies. Why study so hard for a qualification that is not widely recognised by local employers? -
yes, i agree with u.Originally posted by cooleo:Nowadays, banks even hire degree holders for bank teller positions lor. The job market is so depressed and employers know now is the right time to hire degree holders and pay them diploma-like salaries. Likewise, for diploma holders, they have to be contented with 'leftover' jobs that has lousy remuneration.
By the way, will like to advise people who are thinking of taking up distance learning to consider carefully. If possible, try to go for local or foreign on-campus studies. Why study so hard for a qualification that is not widely recognised by local employers? -
Ya..could understand how u feel xenthar
. But wat to do..life is like this. Even b4 u apply for a company...example ExxonMobil or other giant companies...they will try to tell u like ...no first class no need apply. Getting a degree is already not easy....wat more a first class. So...a poor degree wouldnt help u much and u will be most likely to work in company where they pay u a diploma $$ for a degree. Still...luck counts! Gd luck to u anyway. 
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Degree oso got problem now, diploma holder i dun think will go for anything that is below 1.3k yah
Comon start low, get some experience and achievement and job hop. those so call coy will want ppl with experience and achievement and so the pay will go up somehow. dun worry abt job hopping, most are doing it now as there is no more job security today. as long as you know you can do it better than other you are in for the new ball game today. and take some 'professional', say again professional and not 'academic' course.
Just too bad you like many other have fall into a fail education system so now the oni thing is to follow all the way but change you view point and nothing else.
Lucky I am not in the 'system' I give it up after my 'N' level, no ITE nothing else but some pro course, thanks whoever is up there.
getting more than most degree not to say diploma and as years goes by it will still keep going up as I keep on hopping till i reach the top/max ceilling.(ceiling as in world market and not singapore market.)example of world and singapore market in my field.
World is paying US 96k to US 124k annually where else in Singapore I am just being pay US 17k to abt US 23k.
Again we were told we are highly paid?
Thing to think abt is next time you kids how? Is he going into the same saystem again. -
well... I think the companies out there have every right to reject whoever they, since they are paying those they hire right? Since the economy is so bad, and so many degree holders are out of job, why hire a diploma holders when u can hire degree holders for the same salary? On the other hand, some ppl prefer diploma holders because they usually post a lesser threat to those who are already working in that company....
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muehahahahah
here's wat some ppl at the other end thinks......
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=82491 -
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Originally posted by Valandil:
Valandil, you sound bias against diploma holders (correct me if I am wrong). Unless the job requires very specialised work (e.g. wafer fabrication engineer), why not hire a diploma/ITE ppl? It does not mean that diploma holders are less brilliant/intelligent/EQ/hardworking than degree holders. I see many poly grads who can function better in career/work than degree holders.
well... I think the companies out there have every right to reject whoever they, since they are paying those they hire right? Since the economy is so bad, and so many degree holders are out of job, why hire a diploma holders when u can hire degree holders for the same salary? On the other hand, some ppl prefer diploma holders because they usually post a lesser threat to those who are already working in that company....
I do not fully agree what you meant by "On the other hand, some ppl prefer diploma holders because they usually post a lesser threat to those who are already working in that company...." (Although it might be true in a small way). Companies prefer diploma holders because they can work better than degree holders, and you can see better creativity and synergy. -
I agree that you must not really need a degree to succeed in life. But the economy is bad and Singapore is a very corporate society. A degree can at least give you a better chance of clinching a job. The rest of course is up to you.
The thing is if your education is low, most people might not even want to give you a chance. Besides, at the risk of sounding a bit bias there is one fact I want to state. People in higher position usually have better chances of grabbing opportunities. When I was in the army, due to the fact that I had a clerical job instead of being a mechanic in my camp and also due to the fact that I got a 3SG rank, any "opportunities" were always shared among us people at the "top" first. Since I have got hight ambition, I don't want to start low if possible. Its not that I am not realistic but its just that people in low positions takes a long time to climb up an miss a lot of chances along the way 
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No choice, after NS only got diploma(s), no money for uni have to find work.
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mi o level...no job
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diploma is NOT useless......
it might be a rough start (compared to degree).....but when u accumulated enuf experience, u are able to proceed to "next level"
and the disciplines are different for diploma and degrees.....some jobs requires the expertise and skills by dip holders......some jobs requires the analytical and organisational aspects tt degree holders can provide....
u jus have to look in the right industries and job opportunities are plenty....... -
I agree wif FireIce on some jobs require a degree, while some require a diploma. All these while i am not nailing down on diploma, but stating that companies prefer diploma holders because they can work better than degree holders is a dirrect assault. y dun say better than PHD ...better right? come on, degree provides a solid foundation for education, if u can, proceed to master and phd. If u think degree is useless, y r so many poly students apply to uni? And how u work actually depends on each individual character, not our cert. We MUST know where we stand in the society in order to survive. Know what u r good at, and make a living out of ur gift. Try applying to Multi International Company , those giant cooperation like Shell, Exxon...u can feel it man!! Even a degree with poor honest wouldnt stand a chance!! Go to thier webpage and read wat they wan...u will feel it. That's y we must know where is our aim in life, and what company is suitable and not suitable. If u have good honest degree/ master /phd...no doubt company like BMW, MERC, FERARRI would hire u man to design thier car...like one of my fren. I ADMIT that he is indeed brilliant and capable. Earning about USD S$200K a year in german is wat he deserve. Am i going to compare wif him or am i going to try my best...u think for urself. And pls do not state such statment like a diploma holder have better creativity and synergy than degree...again..it is not the CERT, but personality. Come on...how many degree holders are working for NASA....dun they have any creative and innovative mind??Originally posted by thinker:Valandil, you sound bias against diploma holders (correct me if I am wrong). Unless the job requires very specialised work (e.g. wafer fabrication engineer), why not hire a diploma/ITE ppl? It does not mean that diploma holders are less brilliant/intelligent/EQ/hardworking than degree holders. I see many poly grads who can function better in career/work than degree holders.
I do not fully agree what you meant by "On the other hand, some ppl prefer diploma holders because they usually post a lesser threat to those who are already working in that company...." (Although it might be true in a small way). [color=red]Companies prefer diploma holders because they can work better than degree holders, and you can see better creativity and synergy.[/color] -
wat honest?Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:Even a degree with poor honest wouldnt stand a chance!!
honours u mean? -
oopsOriginally posted by FireIce:wat honest?
honours u mean?
..ya honours...thx! -
Dun need to study lah.
Study so much...also so little pay.
I work OT abit...i'll earn more than those diploma & degree holders liao..
hahaha...
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Originally posted by FireIce:
yes but how come even a simple job like IT helpdesk or customer service job the requirement stated clearly as Dip/Degree yet those diploma application is not even considered? does these job really need some1 so smart to handle? do u think a diploma holder is so dumb until they can't even handle such a simple job?
[b]some jobs requires the expertise and skills by dip holders......some jobs requires the analytical and organisational aspects tt degree holders can provide....
[b]
i have a fren who is working in a MNC company & he is doing the staffing & interview....he told me that they don't even look at the application from diploma holder. -
on the contrary, i was rejected many times as IT helpdesk or CSO becos....errrmm.....they want dip holders......Originally posted by Sir_Horny:yes but how come even a simple job like IT helpdesk or customer service job the requirement stated clearly as Dip/Degree yet those diploma application is not even considered? does these job really need some1 so smart to handle? do u think a diploma holder is so dumb until they can't even handle such a simple job?
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Erm...my advise would be...juz find a job 1st related to your field...then work for 1-2yrs n then try to search for job opportunities..in the current situation..work experiences weighs much more than certifications..it's the truth as i've seen real life examples..right now people are fighting for jobs..even most fresh deg. holders are setting down their expected salary...some even asking 1.3-1.4k...so..dip. holders out there will be geting a hard time...so...if got job..juz work 1st..get the experiences 1st then say..
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yup.....experience and contacts bring u further than ur cert.....
the cert determines ur starting pay.....after tt is ur work performance and ur ability to prove ur worth.....
no harm to work first and at the same time, keep a lookout for better opportunities and greener fields
most ppl kena one setback then they lost the will and motivation and start putting the blame on this and that......
the first step is always difficult....but everyone mus go thru this phrase.....some ppl are jus a little luckier......
huang tian bu fu ku xin ren......
hang hang chu zhuang yuan
jus have to be more positive and look on the bright side and do ur best.....and perhaps adjust ur expectations (material-wise) and complain less........... -
By employing someone with a degree cert. over a diploma holder for a simple job like 1st level IT helpdesk shows how shallow employers/HR are. It might also be due to the fact that the HR do not understand the requirements of the job, thinking that degree holders are suited for the job. It is a great mismatch.Originally posted by Sir_Horny:yes but how come even a simple job like IT helpdesk or customer service job the requirement stated clearly as Dip/Degree yet those diploma application is not even considered? does these job really need some1 so smart to handle? do u think a diploma holder is so dumb until they can't even handle such a simple job?
i have a fren who is working in a MNC company & he is doing the staffing & interview....he told me that they don't even look at the application from diploma holder.
I have work in helpdesk b4. Even 'O' levels with experience or IT certs (e.g. MCSE, CCNA, etc) can be employed to do this simple job. -
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Duplicated
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I wouldn't refuse your opinion if u insist on your great paper qualification. Take note that what I have stated refers to job that can be done by both dip/deg holders. Pls dun take master/PHD into it. That is another topic and it doesn't make sense to compare with them.Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:I agree wif FireIce on some jobs require a degree, while some require a diploma. All these while i am not nailing down on diploma, but stating that companies prefer diploma holders because they can work better than degree holders is a dirrect assault. y dun say better than PHD ...better right? come on, degree provides a solid foundation for education, if u can, proceed to master and phd. If u think degree is useless, y r so many poly students apply to uni? And how u work actually depends on each individual character, not our cert. We MUST know where we stand in the society in order to survive. Know what u r good at, and make a living out of ur gift. Try applying to Multi International Company , those giant cooperation like Shell, Exxon...u can feel it man!! Even a degree with poor honest wouldnt stand a chance!! Go to thier webpage and read wat they wan...u will feel it. That's y we must know where is our aim in life, and what company is suitable and not suitable. If u have good honest degree/ master /phd...no doubt company like BMW, MERC, FERARRI would hire u man to design thier car...like one of my fren. I ADMIT that he is indeed brilliant and capable. Earning about USD S$200K a year in german is wat he deserve. Am i going to compare wif him or am i going to try my best...u think for urself. And pls do not state such statment like a diploma holder have better creativity and synergy than degree...again..it is not the CERT, but personality. Come on...how many degree holders are working for NASA....dun they have any creative and innovative mind??
Furthering your education is another topic. Its good to further your education to gain in-depth knowledge to help you understand better in your career. I dun believe in furthering your education for the sake of getting the 'paper' only. In the end, its still your capability/character/interest/accumulated skills and knowledge that will let you advance in your career.
Given a choice as a non-degree holders, I wouldn't establish my career in a MNC. MNC judge your capability by your paper qualification. This is having great impact not only to the dip/ITE, even some degree holders felt demoralised/stagnant by it.
You mentioned about a fren of yours who is "indeed brilliant and capable" and is "Earning about USD S$200K a year in german". Great, I am glad that there are talented Singaporean. Note that my opinion is based on general/average ppl and jobs that can be done by both dip/deg holders. Dun take the cream of the lot to compare.