Ten Der of GOV projects.
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as it was out of point from http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=83176&page=1 i bring it here
Originally posted by stupidissmart:Sorry... I happened to be nobody... I have no connection with the circle line watsoever...
Ya after reading I know you are no one or just trying to hide in this forums. Whoever, this is just to know what it about(not all yet)for the nation project like NELP, CCL and the upcoming Pinnacle @ DuxtonThe point about "Do u think they will build out something tat cannot earn money ? " is to mention tat the company tat had caused the collapse had taken into account all the cost yet manage to come up with a cost price tat is cheaper than the other companies, thus should be awarded the contract.
The point is you still did not know what is low and way way below the cost of building. It mention in the last 2 post on 3) they simply do not know anything.As for "high technology" i will come to it in the below part. read on what high tech is!!!
About NEL, r u sure they purposely go and find a contractor tat had request for a high price ? I thought the cost of NEL is due to the implementation of "high technology"...Maybe u can try to cut down words like JV as probably few people knew wat it is about. Why don't u try to provide information about the JV instead ? BTW the company tat cause the collapse is not a local contractor...
JV ~ Joint Venture, you din even know what the whole thing is and try to defend it. Never mind read on, lots of Singaporean dun know fxxk sh|t what is going on anyway. Yes it one Jap company and WHO?? do you know? Most national projects will be done by this so call JV thing as the garment know that the local had and till today has no such knowledge and equipment.(Why not you find out more a years back or so why one of the LTA SPE in that nicoll site kill himself, and btw SPE stand for senior project engineer if like what you say you are no one and dun even know what JV is. After nicoll his wife did say that before he kill himself, he keep saying it not a safe site to work in.)WAAAAAAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAAAA ! Big difference leh !!!
yes, it is.Wat is your point ? The fees for NEL is still higher than the MRT line owned by SMRT isn't it ? They use their cost price to determien the fare for the public, thus is they spent more on building out the stations, tis costs inevitably will be passed down to us consumers. Therefore it make sense for LTA or watever to accept low bidders isn't it ?
The point to you is you can offer to the reasonably low tender but sure not to those way way below which as they know that there is no way they themselves can build on that budget.
Back to high technology. high tech. ~ Driverless? if you never take the NEL b4 or din notice the news or whatever maybe you dun know it driverless. Driverless ~ safe cost? It was say to be have save cost as it cut down manpower. So from you that they used their cost price to set the fare back than but why it is still higher than SMART? In your case all was count in than why it still higher?JV = ? Who he JV with ? Since u know he is Jap company and hold certain standard, then wat is your complains ?
Look at what JV is from above and fine out which locol coy is with them. even they are not bad to you, it is still hinder lots of thing within the site. Most of all what was LTA doing than. Go check, ask aroundSince the safety factor is higher or the same, then why complain tat they do not calculate the safety cost when they bid in your earlier reply ?
Read again, I am asking you can you say that the safety factor is the higher if not the same? And hello, for design and cost is 2 diff things, design it self need cost and to carry the safety measure you need the other cost.So in the end there is checks conducted to make sure they do not use shortcut or inferior materials. So why blame Gov for accepting low bids ?
Again you try to jump away from the point. What do you know abt the check done by them? At what frequency? How detail? Last, till now I am trying to say it was and most of the time given to the low and way below bids. Get back to HDB, which MNC will want to tender and do you think HDB will give to them for that kind of bid HDB had in mind. It is still PUBLIC but becoming privatise. smartisstupid. -
so chim....can summarise or not?
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I want to be moderator for Speaker's Corner because I want to scribble rubbish in everyone's post
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The point is you still did not know what is low and way way below the cost of building. It mention in the last 2 post on 3) they simply do not know anything.As for "high technology" i will come to it in the below part. read on what high tech is!!!
I have been talking about tis for some time now. I do not have the figures with me but wat is the rationale for the company to bid way way way low ? Checks is still going to be conducted regularly to see if there has been shortchanging. There certainly won't bid to lose money either. They r certainly from a reputable company and won't run halfway during the construction neither r they going to calculate wrongly. Why will they bid way way below other rivals ?JV ~ Joint Venture, you din even know what the whole thing is and try to defend it. Never mind read on, lots of Singaporean dun know fxxk sh|t what is going on anyway. Yes it one Jap company and WHO?? do you know? Most national projects will be done by this so call JV thing as the garment know that the local had and till today has no such knowledge and equipment.(Why not you find out more a years back or so why one of the LTA SPE in that nicoll site kill himself, and btw SPE stand for senior project engineer if like what you say you are no one and dun even know what JV is. After nicoll his wife did say that before he kill himself, he keep saying it not a safe site to work in.)
I believe a lot of other people do not know wat does JV means in the first place. Instead of blaming me for not knowing about it, I suppose it is your responsibility to inform others before using relatively unknown shortform.
So in other words u feel tat local construction companies shouldn't get involved in building singapore... anyway I suppose tat japan company should choose some companies he feel comfortable with.
About the person who commit suicide... he should have perservere or something instead of just die and let the tragic occurs. From wat u had said u mean LTA knows something wrong is going to happened but turn a blind eye to it ? Or have u read too much conspiracy theories ?The point to you is you can offer to the reasonably low tender but sure not to those way way below which as they know that there is no way they themselves can build on that budget.
How low is your "way way below" ? Do u have any figures to show tat the figures is really beyond comprehension ? Again i got to ask, wat is the rationale for bidding way way below ?
Back to high technology. high tech. ~ Driverless? if you never take the NEL b4 or din notice the news or whatever maybe you dun know it driverless. Driverless ~ safe cost? It was say to be have save cost as it cut down manpower. So from you that they used their cost price to set the fare back than but why it is still higher than SMART? In your case all was count in than why it still higher?
In case u misunderstood, which u obviously did now, the "high technology" is purposely quoted with an open and inverted commas. They admitted tat the cost increases and part of the reason is because they implemented a manless system which in the end cost more.Look at what JV is from above and fine out which locol coy is with them. even they are not bad to you, it is still hinder lots of thing within the site. Most of all what was LTA doing than. Go check, ask around
Since u appears to have much hatred about tat company, why don't u just tell us wat company tat is instead ? Wat was LTA doing then ? From the tone, u clearly have a good idea on wat it is.Read again, I am asking you can you say that the safety factor is the higher if not the same? And hello, for design and cost is 2 diff things, design it self need cost and to carry the safety measure you need the other cost.
Hello, please use understandable english and repharse "the safety factor is the higher if not the same"
As for the design, it from LTA not like the NELP. Can you say that the safety-factor is the higher if not the same?
Wat r u talking about ? Wat safety factor is higher than wat ? The design is not part of the cost for construction since the design had already been set isn't it ?And for the check by GOV in SAFETY will be MOM, STRUCTURE will be BCA. What do you know abt the check done by MOM. Which safety standard are we talking abt now?(For info I am a SAFETY PAX on site) PPL within LTA dun feel safe themselves, ppl like me, what do you think get out for? Money is one factor, nothing to denial abt it.
Again you try to jump away from the point. What do you know abt the check done by them? At what frequency? How detail? Last, till now I am trying to say it was and most of the time given to the low and way below bids. Get back to HDB, which MNC will want to tender and do you think HDB will give to them for that kind of bid HDB had in mind. It is still PUBLIC but becoming privatise. smartisstupid.
I be absolutely frank with u... u need to cool down and repharse the wordings of this paragraph so tat people can understand them. I don't really know wat r u writing about. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
I have been talking about tis for some time now. I do not have the figures with me but wat is the rationale for the company to bid way way way low ? Checks is still going to be conducted regularly to see if there has been shortchanging. There certainly won't bid to lose money either. They r certainly from a reputable company and won't run halfway during the construction neither r they going to calculate wrongly. Why will they bid way way below other rivals?
What rationale only the company itself know. IMO is to get some more time for them to get out or I should say get what ever they can get out with.
Have we not seen some so call reputable company run away and or closed up in the end?I believe a lot of other people do not know wat does JV means in the first place. Instead of blaming me for not knowing about it, I suppose it is your responsibility to inform others before using relatively unknown shortform.
If it sound or seem and you feel it is blame than it shall be smartisstupid.
So in other words u feel tat local construction companies shouldn't get involved in building singapore... anyway I suppose tat japan company should choose some companies he feel comfortable with.
About the person who commit suicide... he should have perservere or something instead of just die and let the tragic occurs. From wat u had said u mean LTA knows something wrong is going to happened but turn a blind eye to it ? Or have u read too much conspiracy theories ?
As for local construction coy, if they are good they are. if not even another 10 years will be the same. Simple project like roads, drainage low HDB that most of us stay in, yes they can. High Tech, Complex design, underground... ... I wonder?
Even after someone die, LTA still cann't do much... ... ... Conspiracy or theories as you may wish to call it, it a facts that CCL are behind time and LTA are 'cashless' than and now.How low is your "way way below" ? Do u have any figures to show tat the figures is really beyond comprehension ? Again i got to ask, wat is the rationale for bidding way way below ?
If you did not follow the whole thing in the 1st place. pls check it out and not waste time asking for figures. If you have check it up you will not be here writing all this but noding away in front of your screen. smartisstupid.
In case u misunderstood, which u obviously did now, the "high technology" is purposely quoted with an open and inverted commas. They admitted tat the cost increases and part of the reason is because they implemented a manless system which in the end cost more.
Rationale again, tsk tsk tsk....hazi... read the top.
Before it go full run to build it, it was told to the ppl that it will save cost on the operator as part of the reason that it was driverless and fare will not be of any higher than SMART. Meaning that the system was already calculate in. Than why cost still increases? One more fact, Singapore is the only country where it public transport is making money every year.Since u appears to have much hatred about tat company, why don't u just tell us wat company tat is instead ? Wat was LTA doing then ? From the tone, u clearly have a good idea on wat it is.
tsk tsk tsk... it not that coy i hate or anything like that, it most of the local coy that i am talking abt here really smartisstupid.
In the 1st place I did not bring in nicoll, is it you the one?
What is LTA doing??? What a good question. From my own experienced, the T.O. will only give you question(just like what you did here.)problems and when you get things done they will still come back to you saying it not good and without any constructive suggestion from them or what or how do they want it to be done, they walk off? It just their luck to meet my team and of cause I had a strong management support(MNC. of cause.)
This servant are alike everywhere, be it in LTA, HDB... ... ...Hello, please use understandable english and repharse "the safety factor is the higher if not the same"
Well let me see what english i should used... kay
As for the design, it from LTA not like the NELP. Can you say that the safety-factor is the higher if not the same?
Wat r u talking about ? Wat safety factor is higher than wat ? The design is not part of the cost for construction since the design had already been set isn't it ?
Dare you say that the safety-factor is higher for CCL than to NEL? (the higher the safety-factor the higher the cost is)
When did design is not part of the cost for construction. What has been set in???? If design is in, doesn't it mean part of the cost is used for that?
Why design do not need to be paid for? Which building, structure or anything that you see that the design is "free"
To those in this field they know very well what it is, ppl like you may not. ppl who follow do get some pt.
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And for the check by GOV in SAFETY will be MOM, STRUCTURE will be BCA. What do you know abt the check done by MOM. Which safety standard are we talking abt now?(For info I am a SAFETY PAX on site) PPL within LTA dun feel safe themselves, ppl like me, what do you think get out for? Money is one factor, nothing to denial abt it.
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Again you try to jump away from the point. What do you know abt the check done by them? At what frequency? How detail? Last, till now I am trying to say it was and most of the time given to the low and way below bids. Get back to HDB, which MNC will want to tender and do you think HDB will give to them for that kind of bid HDB had in mind. It is still PUBLIC but becoming privatise. smartisstupid.
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I be absolutely frank with u... u need to cool down and repharse the wordings of this paragraph so tat people can understand them. I don't really know wat r u writing about.
What is it? is it the GOV, MOM, BCA, PAX, HDB, MNC or privatise of what you dun get?
Last, happy staying on the top floor of Pinnacle if it did complete. -
What rationale only the company itself know. IMO is to get some more time for them to get out or I should say get what ever they can get out with.
Since it is totally senseless to bid lower than the cost price, then surely somewhere in your brain should u realise tat they do have a valid reason to bid low. Obviously that Jap company has not pack up and ran at tis moment as we speak. All u have is just wild accusation..
Have we not seen some so call reputable company run away and or closed up in the end?If it sound or seem and you feel it is blame than it shall be smartisstupid.
IMO people who use relatively unknown abbreviation r probably LKK, KNN, CCB person who PCC all day long in their house... ROTFL. These r all legitimate but porbably unknown abbreviaitons terms huh... don't think on the wrong side....As for local construction coy, if they are good they are. if not even another 10 years will be the same. Simple project like roads, drainage low HDB that most of us stay in, yes they can. High Tech, Complex design, underground... ... I wonder?
Doesn't the term "joint venture" with a Japanese firm help
If u have so little confidence of local company, certainly working with another foreign company should be good exposure to them.Even after someone die, LTA still cann't do much... ... ... Conspiracy or theories as you may wish to call it, it a facts that CCL are behind time and LTA are 'cashless' than and now.
Even if CCL is behind time, they can certainly delay the date like they did to NEL too. Even if LTA is cashless, gov will still be there to bail him out.If you did not follow the whole thing in the 1st place. pls check it out and not waste time asking for figures. If you have check it up you will not be here writing all this but noding away in front of your screen. smartisstupid.
Wat amazing facts do u manage to dish out yourself other than silly abreviations or wild accusations ?Rationale again, tsk tsk tsk....hazi... read the top.
I am going to say it again despite wat I had written before. Since it is absolutely senseless to bid "way way below" then doesn't tat means your idea of market rate is probably "way way above" the cost price. I don't know where u r working in but it probably means u have a bad sense of judgement on prices or can't remains competitive enough to offer low pricesBefore it go full run to build it, it was told to the ppl that it will save cost on the operator as part of the reason that it was driverless and fare will not be of any higher than SMART. Meaning that the system was already calculate in. Than why cost still increases? One more fact, Singapore is the only country where it public transport is making money every year
I said before, it is quoted with an open and close inverted commas. And here u r blaring about the problem of NEL being manless when I personnally felt it is dumb to make it manless as well. Nevermind, carry on condemning... u think things will be better if u r in charge ?
Public transport here is the only country tat earns money.. so ? I know tat fact too. Wat has tat got to do with anything here ?tsk tsk tsk... it not that coy i hate or anything like that, it most of the local coy that i am talking abt here really smartisstupid.
Okie, so u do not hate local companies, just tat u find them stupid ? wow, big improvement man !comon our mr. shorty for sure will give to the lowest tender as he say "in the past we had 28% of tender not given to the lowest." when ask is it true that all tender was given to the lowest with check? So in the past we had 78% of tender was given to the lowest rite?
Tis is original stated by u before... when does the gov mention about the % of tender being offered to the lowest ? Doesn't tat already link itself with nicoll event ?
till I
slap himself rite in front of the nation.
that why so many builder(in hdb contract, contractor are known as builder) all closed shop, do you think they really broke? No, just pack up and shake leg at home.
I don't know about your age, but u don't even know the idea of quotations is to find out the companies tat can provide a service at the cheapest price. Here u r laughing tat 78% of tender is offered to the lower bidders, when naturally it should be 100%. In other words 78% really means they do consider other factors in as well and prove their point. I really unsure wat the heck r u laughing or happy about when they manage to prove their point...What is LTA doing??? What a good question. From my own experienced, the T.O. will only give you question(just like what you did here.)problems and when you get things done they will still come back to you saying it not good and without any constructive suggestion from them or what or how do they want it to be done, they walk off? It just their luck to meet my team and of cause I had a strong management support(MNC. of cause.)
If they can provide a good solution, then they probably should work on it themselves instead of employing the service of your company. I thought they employ u to give the solution... SO wat happened when they meet your team ? U show them your attitude problem ? U rate them as servants so u think u r at a higher or better posiiton to comment ? Too bad for u u even have to work under the servants
This servant are alike everywhere, be it in LTA, HDB... ... ...Well let me see what english i should used... kay
Why don't I ask u tis question instead, since u r suppose to be in tis industry. Dare u say tat the safety factor for NEL is higher than CCL ?
Dare you say that the safety-factor is higher for CCL than to NEL? (the higher the safety-factor the higher the cost is)To those in this field they know very well what it is, ppl like you may not. ppl who follow do get some pt.
For the above few question it is the general flow of english. Maybe u should alter the flow of english for it to be more comprehensible.
What is it? is it the GOV, MOM, BCA, PAX, HDB, MNC or privatise of what you dun get?Last, happy staying on the top floor of Pinnacle if it did complete
SO u think there will be another accident when they r building the pinnacle ? How do u know ? Is it because they have employed the use of your company ? Personally I never see the esplanade or other big projects in singapore fail before other than the nicoll highway incident. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
The oni thing you can drill on is this Jap coy where you see that is still around and yes it a fact it still around. But do you know how many had pack up and get away/closed shop for the local. I start of as How many local coy going to pack up for this Pinnacl for tender low? I m still talking abt the local coy here, why do you want to change the point of local coy to MNC.
[quote]Since it is totally senseless to bid lower than the cost price, then surely somewhere in your brain should u realise tat they do have a valid reason to bid low. Obviously that Jap company has not pack up and ran at tis moment as we speak. All u have is just wild accusation..
It a culture that Jap go for the reputation of the coy but for local construction coy, it oni what they can make now, the company is not going to last more than 100 years. I dare say by end or even b4 the completion of CCL this so call local coy will closed shop and shake leg at home.IMO people who use relatively unknown abbreviation r probably LKK, KNN, CCB person who PCC all day long in their house... ROTFL. These r all legitimate but porbably unknown abbreviaitons terms huh... don't think on the wrong side...
If you wish to exchange pt here in this topic than you should go check up on things, facts, and what abbreaviation ppl in this field used, if not what the pt here? Trying to show me you good english. All that abb you mention above for chat or whatever you used that for I dun want to know, but for discussion and exchange pt of view you better know what to key in. What are you telling me you are a LKK, KNNBCCB who PCC all day.Doesn't the term "joint venture" with a Japanese firm help
What a good point here, 1st we have MRT stage 1, stage 2, stage 3, all now run by SMRT follow by NELP. For more than 10 years what had the local coy been exposure too and what did the local learn? Why till now for CCL we still call the MNC in? If the management willing too learn and pick up, (in local coy case it only the boss who decide, management just for show) 'they' will.
If u have so little confidence of local company, certainly working with another foreign company should be good exposure to them.
Sad to say and as i mention above it what the boss see now, he and the coy will not last for 100 years. Maybe just his life time only say 30 to 40 years. Can you name me just one local construction that last til today from the day Singapore is form and is doing very well?
Let me tell you and i had mention it b4. the local is just a sleeping partner, if you dun know what it is let me tell you, the coy will just leave the coy name behind say they are in but they dun do anything. every mth just make sure the bank account got $$$ went in. That what local is doing for the past and now most are still doing it.Even if CCL is behind time, they can certainly delay the date like they did to NEL too. Even if LTA is cashless, gov will still be there to bail him out.
Good pt. on the delay like NEL. Do you know what is the claim made by SBS on LTA? This is only the 2 of them, what abt the rest of the contractors doing the whole line? Do you know the types of claim was made for the delay? Why? Cover lost? Delay is never an option in construction.
Another good pt. GOV will bail him out. Is it good for us when gov bail him out, whose money is the gov using than? As this will lead to other subject in the gov and blah blah blah. I will not want to go in any more. Get bak to cashless LTA. How LTA going to pay for the progress claim to the contractors. GOV bail him out will take time. during this time who get hit the most? Contractors? No? Sub-Contractors? No? Workers get hit the most.Wat amazing facts do u manage to dish out yourself other than silly abreviations or wild accusations ?
You are lost for words or what Or you dun have facts at all I am going to say it again despite wat I had written before. Since it is absolutely senseless to bid "way way below" then doesn't tat means your idea of market rate is probably "way way above" the cost price. I don't know where u r working in but it probably means u have a bad sense of judgement on prices or can't remains competitive enough to offer low prices
You are not in this field is one reason why you still dun know what do I mean by get out/closed shop for the coy. The coy itself is just a one man thing in Singapore. As you keep saying dun know what I am writing here. so a simple way to put it.
You had a coy and been doing just fine for the past years and made some $$$. now things turn bad and you do not wish to lost any $$$ that you had made b4 but still you need to fine way to get it out to a safe place. For you to do that a few way and one is to get the coy still running while you get out with as many as you can.(how to get the coy still running? tender low, get the project, the $$$ that come in is just for the worker if there is any) when you are almost done and the coy had become a empty shell. You will just closed up leaving whatever that is still on. Does this make sense to you now. Or you want it more simpler why coy going to tender low and it way below?I said before, it is quoted with an open and close inverted commas. And here u r blaring about the problem of NEL being manless when I personnally felt it is dumb to make it manless as well. Nevermind, carry on condemning... u think things will be better if u r in charge ?
It a pt who start off? I just exchange view. From the pt by youI thought the cost of NEL is due to the implementation of "high technology"... to 'They admitted tat the cost increases and part of the reason is because they implemented a manless system which in the end cost more.'
Public transport here is the only country tat earns money.. so ? I know tat fact too. Wat has tat got to do with anything here ?
Why not you confrim 1st?
Why they dun ask the ppl want a low fare or higher fare?
Har, things will not be better when I am in charge because of ppl like you around.Okie, so u do not hate local companies, just tat u find them stupid ? wow, big improvement man !
It always the case for me in the construction field.Tis is original stated by u before... when does the gov mention about the % of tender being offered to the lowest ? Doesn't tat already link itself with nicoll event ?
As i say b4 if you did not follow on the case pls check it up. It was bring up by shorty just for HDB case where some big contractors close shop just like that. When had it ever link to nicoll. Btw, I remind you for the 3rd time. nicoll was bring into the topic here by you where you dun seem to have much facts for your stand.I don't know about your age, but u don't even know the idea of quotations is to find out the companies tat can provide a service at the cheapest price. Here u r laughing tat 78% of tender is offered to the lower bidders, when naturally it should be 100%. In other words 78% really means they do consider other factors in as well and prove their point. I really unsure wat the heck r u laughing or happy about when they manage to prove their point...
I am still laughing at that 78% and thinking how many still around? Look at the problems of these 78% cause like leaking, crackes, power seach, delay of handing over etc etc. So what is the pt here? Lowest is good How many of them still around and how many sub sub sub contractors are closing because of this main builder.If they can provide a good solution, then they probably should work on it themselves instead of employing the service of your company. I thought they employ u to give the solution... SO wat happened when they meet your team ? U show them your attitude problem ? U rate them as servants so u think u r at a higher or better posiiton to comment ? Too bad for u u even have to work under the servants
The pt here is not on provide of solution or not but do they know anything in the 1st place? They are not the only one who know it wrong, but do they know why it wrong in the 1st place? If you cannot give any better solution than my than just shut up and let the site do the job. meetings after meetings but still a double job.
Never did i ever say i work under the servant. It is my job to get thing done to my best skill and knowledge and if you think it not good and had better idea to contribute you do so and not just walk off. this is what i call servant attitude.Why don't I ask u tis question instead, since u r suppose to be in tis industry. Dare u say tat the safety factor for NEL is higher than CCL ?
Dare why not? CCL is LOWER b4 nicoll event. Why? Who know it is higher now? You?For the above few question it is the general flow of english. Maybe u should alter the flow of english for it to be more comprehensible.
Lost of words or facts again. Ya ya my english no good, GCE N level what you can get like this.SO u think there will be another accident when they r building the pinnacle ? How do u know ? Is it because they have employed the use of your company ? Personally I never see the esplanade or other big projects in singapore fail before other than the nicoll highway incident.
Watch your words! KNNBCCB. you saying I am and will cause accident?
Thanks whoever up or down there, I no longer in construction. and i had say b4, last year i get out of construction from CCL. what are you reading really??? If you are talking accidents, doesn't mean building or road collapse than it one accident. -
The oni thing you can drill on is this Jap coy where you see that is still around and yes it a fact it still around. But do you know how many had pack up and get away/closed shop for the local. I start of as How many local coy going to pack up for this Pinnacl for tender low? I m still talking abt the local coy here, why do you want to change the point of local coy to MNC.
Unless he like the status of being pronounced as a bankrupt or love to flee the country after failing his business, then I do not see a reason for him to deliberately bid low to the point of losing money
It a culture that Jap go for the reputation of the coy but for local construction coy, it oni what they can make now, the company is not going to last more than 100 years. I dare say by end or even b4 the completion of CCL this so call local coy will closed shop and shake leg at home.
SO wat do u suggest all companies in the world do ? Scrapped away the quotation system ?If you wish to exchange pt here in this topic than you should go check up on things, facts, and what abbreaviation ppl in this field used, if not what the pt here? Trying to show me you good english. All that abb you mention above for chat or whatever you used that for I dun want to know, but for discussion and exchange pt of view you better know what to key in. What are you telling me you are a LKK, KNNBCCB who PCC all day.
The point is using unknown abbreviation insisting everyone to know about it is a wrong assumption. After using the wrong assumption and committing a inconsiderate action, u can turn around and mock others for not having enough general knowledge on the field. Talking about corrcting english, I am just doing tit for tat action for your ingenious "public" transport fees.What a good point here, 1st we have MRT stage 1, stage 2, stage 3, all now run by SMRT follow by NELP. For more than 10 years what had the local coy been exposure too and what did the local learn? Why till now for CCL we still call the MNC in? If the management willing too learn and pick up, (in local coy case it only the boss who decide, management just for show) 'they' will.
Too bad the foreign companies can afford to bid lower and have the necessary equipment for such big projects.Sad to say and as i mention above it what the boss see now, he and the coy will not last for 100 years. Maybe just his life time only say 30 to 40 years. Can you name me just one local construction that last til today from the day Singapore is form and is doing very well?
Do u know the boss at a personal level ? How about Eng Seng Lee, Chip Huat, Lean Hin Lee, Thong Huat, Hua Kok, Sim Lian, Lian Beng, Evan Lim & Co, Hong Lai Huat, Chip and Seng, Hck Chuan Ann, Tiong Seng, Hor Kew, Thiong Aik, Chip hup Hup Kee, Ann Lee and Straits contruction ?Let me tell you and i had mention it b4. the local is just a sleeping partner, if you dun know what it is let me tell you, the coy will just leave the coy name behind say they are in but they dun do anything. every mth just make sure the bank account got $$$ went in. That what local is doing for the past and now most are still doing it.
I don't know how bad your experience is but maybe u r just using your own experience to condemn the whole industry ? Is it the case of because of a bamboo stick in the boat, u abandon the whole boat ?Good pt. on the delay like NEL. Do you know what is the claim made by SBS on LTA? This is only the 2 of them, what abt the rest of the contractors doing the whole line? Do you know the types of claim was made for the delay? Why? Cover lost? Delay is never an option in construction.
They have agreed on a time for completion of work. If they cannot finish in time, then don't agree. When they delay projects, SBS r really losing money since opening earlier will result in making money earlier.Another good pt. GOV will bail him out. Is it good for us when gov bail him out, whose money is the gov using than? As this will lead to other subject in the gov and blah blah blah. I will not want to go in any more. Get bak to cashless LTA. How LTA going to pay for the progress claim to the contractors. GOV bail him out will take time. during this time who get hit the most? Contractors? No? Sub-Contractors? No? Workers get hit the most.
BTW how do u know LTA has lack of fund in the first place ? The above statement is only true is u manage to substantiate your point of a fundless LTAYou are not in this field is one reason why you still dun know what do I mean by get out/closed shop for the coy. The coy itself is just a one man thing in Singapore. As you keep saying dun know what I am writing here. so a simple way to put it.
I am pretty sure a reputable company with a wealth of projects under his name will not be a one man show here. As said before, LTA did look into the company portfolio before deciding who is being offered the contract. Is there any example of LTA giving project to a one man company before ? -
You had a coy and been doing just fine for the past years and made some $$$. now things turn bad and you do not wish to lost any $$$ that you had made b4 but still you need to fine way to get it out to a safe place. For you to do that a few way and one is to get the coy still running while you get out with as many as you can.(how to get the coy still running? tender low, get the project, the $$$ that come in is just for the worker if there is any) when you are almost done and the coy had become a empty shell. You will just closed up leaving whatever that is still on. Does this make sense to you now. Or you want it more simpler why coy going to tender low and it way below?
Tat can be a possible scenario, but if a company is prepared to play fraud, then there seems very limited for the other party to do anything.
If we follow wat u say, then everyone here should not work for companies. Why ? Because there r cases of boss running away from the company because they had asconded with their money. People should not put a deposit for stuff like cars or houses as well. Why ? Because there r cases of companies running away with their money and never deliver the product.
So wat do u suggest then ? Don't use quotations at all ?It a pt who start off? I just exchange view. From the pt by youI thought the cost of NEL is due to the implementation of "high technology"... to 'They admitted tat the cost increases and part of the reason is because they implemented a manless system which in the end cost more.'
They confirm it themselves before isn't it ? They cite one of the reason for the higher cost is due to the manless system. Wat do u mean by asking the people if they want a low fare or high fare ? Being a user I will ask it to be free, i.e no fare to be paid. Surely a company has to gage the price of its service instead of asking a customer to set one. Customer of course choose it to be free or near free.
Why not you confrim 1st?
Why they dun ask the ppl want a low fare or higher fare?
Har, things will not be better when I am in charge because of ppl like you around.As i say b4 if you did not follow on the case pls check it up. It was bring up by shorty just for HDB case where some big contractors close shop just like that. When had it ever link to nicoll. Btw, I remind you for the 3rd time. nicoll was bring into the topic here by you where you dun seem to have much facts for your stand.
t was linked because the media and people r suggesting the possibility of the disaster is due to the acceptance of low bids. I guess u better check out tis facts yourself.I am still laughing at that 78% and thinking how many still around? Look at the problems of these 78% cause like leaking, crackes, power seach, delay of handing over etc etc. So what is the pt here? Lowest is good How many of them still around and how many sub sub sub contractors are closing because of this main builder.
Can u be certain tat if the tender is given to a higher bidder, all the problems will vanish ? The 28% may be the one tat cause leaking, crackes, power seach, delay of handing over etc etc as well. So wat is the point here ? In the absence of ability in predicting the future, a company should use logical business sense and accept a low bid instead of a high one. Will u pay a higher price for the same goods ?The pt here is not on provide of solution or not but do they know anything in the 1st place? They are not the only one who know it wrong, but do they know why it wrong in the 1st place? If you cannot give any better solution than my than just shut up and let the site do the job. meetings after meetings but still a double job.
Do u know wat u r suggesting ? U r preventing the gov from doing a robust check on construction projects in singapore. If Gov cannot question or prohibit unsafe system, then we r goinna see more nicoll higway incidents.Never did i ever say i work under the servant. It is my job to get thing done to my best skill and knowledge and if you think it not good and had better idea to contribute you do so and not just walk off. this is what i call servant attitude.
Well u have to present your work to the "servants" to get their approval or satisfy their complaints. Aren't u already under the servants ? Why don't u tell us wat happened ? Because from wat I see, tis is probably your side of the story and from the "servant" side it may be something totally different.Dare why not? CCL is LOWER b4 nicoll event. Why? Who know it is higher now? You?
How do u substantiate your stand then ?Watch your words! KNNBCCB. you saying I am and will cause accident?
IMO u r already cursing the people and singapore tat the pinnacle project will definitely fail and never be successfully built. There r many peopel choosing this housing and before work has been done u r already condemning somthing is gonna happen there. The only logical reason for u to know an accident is gonna happen before any work is being done is probably because u r the one tat is gonna cause it. So doesn't tat make perfectly good reason on my part to ask if u r involved in the project.
Thanks whoever up or down there, I no longer in construction. and i had say b4, last year i get out of construction from CCL. what are you reading really??? If you are talking accidents, doesn't mean building or road collapse than it one accident. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Isn't almost all local coy that closed shop end up bankrupt or receivership.
Unless he like the status of being pronounced as a bankrupt or love to flee the country after failing his business, then I do not see a reason for him to deliberately bid low to the point of losing money
SO wat do u suggest all companies in the world do ? Scrapped away the quotation system ?The point is using unknown abbreviation insisting everyone to know about it is a wrong assumption. After using the wrong assumption and committing a inconsiderate action, u can turn around and mock others for not having enough general knowledge on the field. Talking about corrcting english, I am just doing tit for tat action for your ingenious "public" transport fees.
Get this pt. again If you wish to exchange pt here in this topic than you should go check up on things, facts, and what abbreaviation ppl in this field used, if not what the pt here?Your reply is empty other than my english is poor.Too bad the foreign companies can afford to bid lower and have the necessary equipment for such big projects.
Out of point. You had no idea of what equipment/s you are talking for such project. MNC can bid lower? For you knowledge, for this tunnel project, the machine and equipment can only be used once due to geotechnic reason. Again empty If like you say than MNC dun have to buy the machine, local must? Why not say the local have no idea on how to bid on such project.Do u know the boss at a personal level ? How about Eng Seng Lee, Chip Huat, Lean Hin Lee, Thong Huat, Hua Kok, Sim Lian, Lian Beng, Evan Lim & Co, Hong Lai Huat, Chip and Seng, Hck Chuan Ann, Tiong Seng, Hor Kew, Thiong Aik, Chip hup Hup Kee, Ann Lee and Straits contruction ?
Again out of pt. Anything to do with knowing this ppl personally? If yes, so? NAME just one coy that start when Singapore form till today that is doing very well. None that you mention is. Lian Beng, Hong Lai Huat, Chip Eng Seng had call me few time. Hock Chuan Ann back out from CCL. Know this ppl, ya they are good at paying themselves 1st, end year say not making, all get nothing but they change bigger or new car?I don't know how bad your experience is but maybe u r just using your own experience to condemn the whole industry ? Is it the case of because of a bamboo stick in the boat, u abandon the whole boat ?
As long local Constructions Bosses carry on paying peanuts, he will just keep getting monkeys on site. Till today none is changing for better? Even Hyflux Ltd are not paying local but rather pay FT(foreign talent) Singapore dun have construction manager? Why need one FT(Expensive one)? Singapore dun have Safety Office? Why again get FT(Cheap FT)?They have agreed on a time for completion of work. If they cannot finish in time, then don't agree. When they delay projects, SBS r really losing money since opening earlier will result in making money earlier.
Empty and out of pt.BTW how do u know LTA has lack of fund in the first place ? The above statement is only true is u manage to substantiate your point of a fundless LTA
You had name so many coy above, why not check with them. Check with Hock Chuan Ann, why they back out, is one of the reason due to progress claim? You say you are not in this field, you dun take what i said, than you will have to check it out and than get back at me. it just show you are emptyI am pretty sure a reputable company with a wealth of projects under his name will not be a one man show here. As said before, LTA did look into the company portfolio before deciding who is being offered the contract. Is there any example of LTA giving project to a one man company before ?
Hazi... what is that you dun get, the 'team management' is for show, it has no say at all, the PM(project manager) CM(construction manager) SM(site M.) engineer and ppl down the line had no a single power of decision making, even for ordering of material for work? All only the PD(Project Director) can. Isn't this a one man local coy? LTA only start to look into details after so many incident had happened, but till now for CCL stage 4 and 5 tender it is said that C854 still the lowest get. Source from within LTA.
Hyundai/ Strait Constrn JV - $459,400,000
Sembcorp Engrs - $444,632,800
Zublin/ NCC/ Koh Brothers JV - $428,888,800
Obayashi/ Sato Kogyo/ Greatearth JV - $418,532,000
Taisei Corporation - $390,769,300
Why such a big diff of $29.762,700?between last and last 2nd and the diff between 2nd and 3rd is just $14,767,200Why the rest need so much?
Let me guess? You will say because the last one is better, he can do it more cheaper. Ha.. if one or more minor or not factor/s is missing during the calculation this what you get. Why LTA dun have a guide as where is the cost prize be. Let say they have done it and ranger at $500,000,000 now if you are LTA will you decide to let the one with the lowest get the job knowing that it impossible??? LTA will. Local developer HDB will.
MNC developer (not contractor) will not and infact they will top up to $500,000,000 to get the job done.
The whole pt here is that local (GOV and businessman) who can call the shot here are not working on it and till today for more than 10 years of building track works they still know not much. -
Isn't almost all local coy that closed shop end up bankrupt or receivership.
I thoguht I have listed so many construction comanies before. R they closed shop or at receivership ? To build up a reputation need time and many successful projects. DO u think they will just default and ran everytime ? Why don't u just admit tat there is no reason for them to bid low unless they can afford it ?Get this pt. again If you wish to exchange pt here in this topic than you should go check up on things, facts, and what abbreaviation ppl in this field used, if not what the pt here?Your reply is empty other than my english is poor.
U r right, tat is the whole point of tat passage. But then u have earlier include passages tat speak nothing but my bad english like using "public" transport fees or condemning me for not knowing your little abbreviations like JV etc. As I said before, it is your responsibility to explain each abbreviation before u write it, not I to find it out the meaning for every abbreviation u find it interesting to write it down.Out of point. You had no idea of what equipment/s you are talking for such project. MNC can bid lower? For you knowledge, for this tunnel project, the machine and equipment can only be used once due to geotechnic reason. Again empty If like you say than MNC dun have to buy the machine, local must? Why not say the local have no idea on how to bid on such project.
I am pretty sure the number of cranes, trunks and cement mixer can be accounted as equipment. MNC probably can deploy more cranes, trucks, pile driver and workers etc to a project isn't it ? They know how to bid for your one time equipment too, isn't tat considered equipment as well ? maybe they have a closer connection than u think and can buy it in discounts. And r u sure the do not need the use of special equipments tat can be used many times ? If u r so smart, maybe u can try to be your own boss and bid against the foreigner too.Again out of pt. Anything to do with knowing this ppl personally? If yes, so? NAME just one coy that start when Singapore form till today that is doing very well. None that you mention is. Lian Beng, Hong Lai Huat, Chip Eng Seng had call me few time. Hock Chuan Ann back out from CCL. Know this ppl, ya they are good at paying themselves 1st, end year say not making, all get nothing but they change bigger or new car?
Firstly, u seems to be interested in just "history" of companies. I am showing examples of companies tat were relatively successful up till now. Why do number of years the companies r in have to be considered into tis discussion ? I believe some of them r already at least 10 years old, u dare to say all of them r younger than 10 years ? Isn't 10 years good enough ?
They change to bigger cars and watever just means they r good at milking their employees... it doesn't mean they r bad in business.
Lastly, why does Hock Chuan Ann back out in the last minute ? I thought u have this impression that thgey will go around and bid incredibly low prices then ran away altogether ? Why don't Hock Chuan Ann do tat ? It is because he want to maintain his reputation and he want to continue doing business. There is no rationale for bidding lowAs long local Constructions Bosses carry on paying peanuts, he will just keep getting monkeys on site. Till today none is changing for better? Even Hyflux Ltd are not paying local but rather pay FT(foreign talent) Singapore dun have construction manager? Why need one FT(Expensive one)? Singapore dun have Safety Office? Why again get FT(Cheap FT)?
Paying foreign talent not people meh ? Do u think u will be a better boss than them ? Does paying highly to local people means better busines sense ? Do u judge a company just by how much salary they give ?
They have agreed on a time for completion of work. If they cannot finish in time, then don't agree. When they delay projects, SBS r really losing money since opening earlier will result in making money earlier.
WHy is the above out of point ? U have no answer for it so it is out of point ?You had name so many coy above, why not check with them. Check with Hock Chuan Ann, why they back out, is one of the reason due to progress claim? You say you are not in this field, you dun take what i said, than you will have to check it out and than get back at me. it just show you are empty
So u have a problem with Progress claim ? So when they switch their policy to progress claim u felt it is a sign they r running out of funds ?Hazi... what is that you dun get, the 'team management' is for show, it has no say at all, the PM(project manager) CM(construction manager) SM(site M.) engineer and ppl down the line had no a single power of decision making, even for ordering of material for work? All only the PD(Project Director) can. Isn't this a one man local coy?
So in your opinion if only a man can decide certain decisions, then it is a one man team ? In Macdonald only the manager can decide if they can compensate certain items for an angry customer. Does tat means it is a one man team and the cashiers, cooks and cleaners doesn't count ?LTA only start to look into details after so many incident had happened, but till now for CCL stage 4 and 5 tender it is said that C854 still the lowest get. Source from within LTA.
For your figures, it is misleading to give figures instead of comparing by pecentage. FYI, the percentage difference between Taisei and Obayashi is a mere 7% difference. As u have known, tis is an approximation and people have known to charge 10% for profits and 5% for negotiation fees and another 10% more for safety margin. SO a difference in 7% of the price means Taisei is going to ran after taking the cash ? Wat is the rationale for bidding low till they make a lost ?
Hyundai/ Strait Constrn JV - $459,400,000
Sembcorp Engrs - $444,632,800
Zublin/ NCC/ Koh Brothers JV - $428,888,800
Obayashi/ Sato Kogyo/ Greatearth JV - $418,532,000
Taisei Corporation - $390,769,300
Why such a big diff of $29.762,700?between last and last 2nd and the diff between 2nd and 3rd is just $14,767,200Why the rest need so much?Let me guess? You will say because the last one is better, he can do it more cheaper. Ha.. if one or more minor or not factor/s is missing during the calculation this what you get. Why LTA dun have a guide as where is the cost prize be. Let say they have done it and ranger at $500,000,000 now if you are LTA will you decide to let the one with the lowest get the job knowing that it impossible??? LTA will. Local developer HDB will.
If he calculate one thing lesser, then it just means the contractor either have to talk again with the company again or he have to top it up with their own cash. Tat is the price of them making a bad calculation in the first place.
MNC developer (not contractor) will not and infact they will top up to $500,000,000 to get the job done.
MNC do tat ? Dare u say all MNC do tat ? I am pretty sure there r some companies tat work lik HDB or LTAThe whole pt here is that local (GOV and businessman) who can call the shot here are not working on it and till today for more than 10 years of building track works they still know not much.
Too bad for them then. My whole point is accepting a low bid for a quotation is normal business sense -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Tat can be a possible scenario, but if a company is prepared to play fraud, then there seems very limited for the other party to do anything.
I am saying ppl down here should not work for local construction (one man) company.And you have say there r cases of companies running away with their money and never deliver the product.So what do you mean by now?
If we follow wat u say, then everyone here should not work for companies. Why ? Because there r cases of boss running away from the company because they had asconded with their money. People should not put a deposit for stuff like cars or houses as well. Why ? Because there r cases of companies running away with their money and never deliver the product.
So wat do u suggest then ? Don't use quotations at all ?They confirm it themselves before isn't it ? They cite one of the reason for the higher cost is due to the manless system. Wat do u mean by asking the people if they want a low fare or high fare ? Being a user I will ask it to be free, i.e no fare to be paid. Surely a company has to gage the price of its service instead of asking a customer to set one. Customer of course choose it to be free or near free.
I am saying that GOV keep on saying they will ask ppl pt b4 any decision is made but in this case why the reason given in the end was mention differently 1st place as high tech cost more. If high tech cost more, why not used manual and it will also create job as well.t was linked because the media and people r suggesting the possibility of the disaster is due to the acceptance of low bids. I guess u better check out tis facts yourself.
It is still 2 diff thing. It is HDB and LTA. If it the same why 2 MP need to answer to the question? ppl like you just like to link things together anyhow. Well that has been the way. I wrote that all those local coy that tender in Pinnacle with way below cost prize to go bust. But somehow it ended up here with nicoll incident in it of which you can drill on it only without much fact.Can u be certain tat if the tender is given to a higher bidder, all the problems will vanish ? The 28% may be the one tat cause leaking, crackes, power seach, delay of handing over etc etc as well. So wat is the point here ? In the absence of ability in predicting the future, a company should use logical business sense and accept a low bid instead of a high one. Will u pay a higher price for the same goods ?
As your wish if you still insist that those work way under the cost can do it and not have any problem on the finish product as in this case blocks of HDB flat, than be it. Who is in the field b4, me or you? As you say something like you are no one and not in the field. You can insist all you want without fact or witness it yourself for all I care.
As a developer (company is not the words here) all will used logical business sence to give to the bider that he can work on a comfortable margine as the developer will calculate and have in mind what it is going to cost. Simple math, if it need $10 to do it and some one come with $0.10 and you give it to him, what logical business sence are you talking here?Do u know wat u r suggesting ? U r preventing the gov from doing a robust check on construction projects in singapore. If Gov cannot question or prohibit unsafe system, then we r goinna see more nicoll higway incidents.
If it a robust check, ppl will oni make nosie how how stringent is it and not on double work. My pt is do they know anything in the 1st placeBtw FT was not bring into the picture here. It will just get more complex. The pt you drill on nicoll got more pts, facts, reasons in it and this are only some hear say you can bring out.Well u have to present your work to the "servants" to get their approval or satisfy their complaints. Aren't u already under the servants ? Why don't u tell us wat happened ? Because from wat I see, tis is probably your side of the story and from the "servant" side it may be something totally different.
Well well well, if you want to look at it this pt, than yes I am under this 'servant' And on which side of story why not you give one from the servant side than I give you mine.How do u substantiate your stand then ?
Really even I have any paper to show, It will not be shown here. By exchange pt with you, who know who will be knocking my door next. Try harder for the next pt.IMO u r already cursing the people and singapore tat the pinnacle project will definitely fail and never be successfully built. There r many peopel choosing this housing and before work has been done u r already condemning somthing is gonna happen there. The only logical reason for u to know an accident is gonna happen before any work is being done is probably because u r the one tat is gonna cause it. So doesn't tat make perfectly good reason on my part to ask if u r involved in the project.
You must have a very poor understanding of english. Hmmm... no must be my english that you dun understand, more than 2 time i did wrote that I am out of construction field and here you drill on it. It a fact from what i had see in the past where and when I am around. So why you had to say I am the cause. When did I curse the ppl and singapore that pinnacle will fail?
One man local coy will cause it to fail. Why not you just take note how many one man local coy will closed shop for this project. I will see how long this project will take. It was say to be complete by 2009 and full completion is somewhere 2013 if I am not wrong. I will like to see how many crane going to topple for this project as well.
I stress again, the project will not fail for even if it take 20 years it will still be complete. If it takes more than the contract stated time frame 1 day to 20 years, you and those who had pay the deposit is not consider fail than it not. So far no one has ever claim any delay from HDB.
I stress one more time, the pt within this discussion was on the poor management of local construction company and poor logical business sence that the developer had and have today. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
I thoguht I have listed so many construction comanies before. R they closed shop or at receivership ? To build up a reputation need time and many successful projects. DO u think they will just default and ran everytime ? Why don't u just admit tat there is no reason for them to bid low unless they can afford it ?
Yes they will.
Yes you listed many but who is doing well now? You did not list any.U r right, tat is the whole point of tat passage. But then u have earlier include passages tat speak nothing but my bad english like using "public" transport fees or condemning me for not knowing your little abbreviations like JV etc. As I said before, it is your responsibility to explain each abbreviation before u write it, not I to find it out the meaning for every abbreviation u find it interesting to write it down.
My responsibility? Common you want to ex change your view and it has to be my responsibility. It show what you are here. JV had and has been using in this field for as long as it been around, what do you mean I find it interesting to write it down. And you can just come withh all those KNN, LKK etc etc on me. What has KNN, LKK, NNB, CCB and PCC got to do here. EMPTY as ever.I am pretty sure the number of cranes, trunks and cement mixer can be accounted as equipment. MNC probably can deploy more cranes, trucks, pile driver and workers etc to a project isn't it ? They know how to bid for your one time equipment too, isn't tat considered equipment as well ? maybe they have a closer connection than u think and can buy it in discounts. And r u sure the do not need the use of special equipments tat can be used many times ? If u r so smart, maybe u can try to be your own boss and bid against the foreigner too.
Do you know what you are saying? more cranes, trucks, pile rig doesn't it cost more this way and more does not mean will be good. As mention, because of geotechnic reason, used once mean once why still drill on it? Even it can be used at other site, it will still be cheaper to get new one as the recover cost of the machine in the tunnel is higher than buy new one. Seriously me tired of explaining most of the thing here to you.
Oh I am not smart, just that in this case I know a bit more than you as you had say you have no link to any and a no body.Firstly, u seems to be interested in just "history" of companies. I am showing examples of companies tat were relatively successful up till now. Why do number of years the companies r in have to be considered into tis discussion ? I believe some of them r already at least 10 years old, u dare to say all of them r younger than 10 years ? Isn't 10 years good enough ?
Successful? All you mention infact are hanging around. I am asking for doing very well till now. If they are, why the share are not for those listed? and one more not all you mention are listed.They change to bigger cars and watever just means they r good at milking their employees... it doesn't mean they r bad in business.
Anyone who milk on employee will never be good in business as the employee are not working to the best and it a pt where you quote me that I am telling all not to work for companies.Lastly, why does Hock Chuan Ann back out in the last minute ? I thought u have this impression that thgey will go around and bid incredibly low prices then ran away altogether ? Why don't Hock Chuan Ann do tat ? It is because he want to maintain his reputation and he want to continue doing business. There is no rationale for bidding low
Is there any more reputation to maintain here when he back out? It a fact ppl remember bad pts. It a No for the construction field. So what and where do you think they are at now? Still around? packing up or go into hibernation now? Why not you find out 1st rather than you down here say thing which you not sure at all Just another empty point from you.Paying foreign talent not people meh ? Do u think u will be a better boss than them ? Does paying highly to local people means better busines sense ? Do u judge a company just by how much salary they give ?
Sound like you are one FT. Again which pt you dun get on one man company, monkey business, 2nd post Anyone who milk on employee will never be good in business as the employee are not working to the best You are just shallow to say I judge company by how much they pay and it out of pt as well. (lost count on how many out of pt here) It in (-) as high pay FT and low pay FT.1st Good pt. on the delay like NEL. Do you know what is the claim made by SBS on LTA? This is only the 2 of them, what abt the rest of the contractors doing the whole line? Do you know the types of claim was made for the delay? Why? Cover lost? Delay is never an option in construction.
Reply They have agreed on a time for completion of work. If they cannot finish in time, then don't agree. When they delay projects, SBS r really losing money since opening earlier will result in making money earlier.
Talking abt what types and how many claims was made and the what sub sub contractor had to do with all this delay? Isn't this out of pt here.So u have a problem with Progress claim ? So when they switch their policy to progress claim u felt it is a sign they r running out of funds ?
So a no one is talking abt policy now??? A progress is met and a claim submitted why payment had to be delay. Policy? It a contract here. Internal policy has nothing to do with it at all. If this is not out of pt, pls tell me what base on this pt?So in your opinion if only a man can decide certain decisions, then it is a one man team ? In Macdonald only the manager can decide if they can compensate certain items for an angry customer. Does tat means it is a one man team and the cashiers, cooks and cleaners doesn't count ?
Thank for a good example. the manager here is like the PM, CM, SM. The one in MacDonald can decide, he did not need to call back US for instruction. But in construction this so call manager need to call the PD as in your example than he will have to call US for instruction. So if this is not a one man coy to you, what can I say.For your figures, it is misleading to give figures instead of comparing by pecentage. FYI, the percentage difference between Taisei and Obayashi is a mere 7% difference. As u have known, tis is an approximation and people have known to charge 10% for profits and 5% for negotiation fees and another 10% more for safety margin. SO a difference in 7% of the price means Taisei is going to ran after taking the cash ? Wat is the rationale for bidding low till they make a lost ?
So again some no one here give % to me. I did say a guide or a benchmark is needed b4 offer to the bider if it is near there it fine with me dun you get?If he calculate one thing lesser, then it just means the contractor either have to talk again with the company again or he have to top it up with their own cash. Tat is the price of them making a bad calculation in the first place.
What do you mean by talk again, so you are telling me there is under table going on here is it? And to top it up with cash is that not a lost? If the lost is too great will they not pack up and run?MNC do tat ? Dare u say all MNC do tat ? I am pretty sure there r some companies tat work lik HDB or LTA
Yes and I dare. MNC do do that. We are talking abt Construction field here and inculde those in the Oil, petrol, gas and chemical and some building developer they the MNC will top up to the contractor as I have witness it myself when the next closer tender to the benchmark calculated by MNC. Even with the top up, that contractor oso cannot make it. So what do you have to say now for those who had no idea or simply they dun know how tender. Why talk to them as you memtion earlier is it? For the local context it never a win win situation but for the MNC it seem like it or I should say YES it is.Too bad for them then. My whole point is accepting a low bid for a quotation is normal business sense
I had never say low is wrong business sence as i had stress a few time, It way below. The same example again, if you need $10 to do something and some one come saying he can do it with $0.10 and you let him. it just show how good you are. -
I am saying ppl down here should not work for local construction (one man) company.And you have say there r cases of companies running away with their money and never deliver the product.So what do you mean by now?
Do u have a concept with time ? Tat post is to reply your earlier post onYou had a coy and been doing just fine for the past years and made some $$$. now things turn bad and you do not wish to lost any $$$ that you had made b4 but still you need to fine way to get it out to a safe place. For you to do that a few way and one is to get the coy still running while you get out with as many as you can.(how to get the coy still running? tender low, get the project, the $$$ that come in is just for the worker if there is any) when you are almost done and the coy had become a empty shell. You will just closed up leaving whatever that is still on. Does this make sense to you now. Or you want it more simpler why coy going to tender low and it way below?
My reply is thusTat can be a possible scenario, but if a company is prepared to play fraud, then there seems very limited for the other party to do anything.
THEREFORE tis reply had NOTHING to do with your one man company theory. Is about TENDERING LOW BIDS ! Why don't u read it all back again.
If we follow wat u say, then everyone here should not work for companies. Why ? Because there r cases of boss running away from the company because they had asconded with their money. People should not put a deposit for stuff like cars or houses as well. Why ? Because there r cases of companies running away with their money and never deliver the product.
So wat do u suggest then ? Don't use quotations at all ?I am saying that GOV keep on saying they will ask ppl pt b4 any decision is made but in this case why the reason given in the end was mention differently 1st place as high tech cost more. If high tech cost more, why not used manual and it will also create job as well.
Tat is out of point to tis topic. I never say tat gov had listen to the people before making decision either. I never say tat the manless system is better than the manned system either. Why do u want to tell tis to me ?It is still 2 diff thing. It is HDB and LTA. If it the same why 2 MP need to answer to the question? ppl like you just like to link things together anyhow. Well that has been the way. I wrote that all those local coy that tender in Pinnacle with way below cost prize to go bust. But somehow it ended up here with nicoll incident in it of which you can drill on it only without much fact.
Why is it 2 different things ? People r suggesting the reason for nicoll highway incident is due to the low bid, tat is why the problem of bidding low suddenly surfaces. Before nicoll incident, nobody actually pay much attention about it. 2 different minister had reply to it, so ? The emphasis on chinese education is only an issue, but there appears to have tons of minister like LKY talking about it too. Does 2 minister talking about the same topic means anything ?
Again I ask, why the heck do they wanna bid way below cost price ? WHY ? U keep accusing them of bidding below cost price, but WHY will they wanna do tat ???? How do u know they r bidding below cost price ? So they can run away with the money ? I thought u say they r already in progress payment system ?As your wish if you still insist that those work way under the cost can do it and not have any problem on the finish product as in this case blocks of HDB flat, than be it. Who is in the field b4, me or you? As you say something like you are no one and not in the field. You can insist all you want without fact or witness it yourself for all I care.
I don't know who u r and I certainly don't know if u r in the field or not. Just because u say u r in tis field, makes u one ? Maybe I am in the field too but I do not say it out. Maybe u r just a construction worker and u claims u know a lot of things because u hear a lot of rumours. Without proving anything, u r probably nothingAs a developer (company is not the words here) all will used logical business sence to give to the bider that he can work on a comfortable margine as the developer will calculate and have in mind what it is going to cost. Simple math, if it need $10 to do it and some one come with $0.10 and you give it to him, what logical business sence are you talking here?
I think your figure is silly. If someone promise to sell u a nike shoe for $200 while the store next door sell u $180 for the same model, which will u choose ? This is not just business sense, it is common sense. I am pretty sure my figure r more realistic than yours, a difference of 100 times.If it a robust check, ppl will oni make nosie how how stringent is it and not on double work. My pt is do they know anything in the 1st placeBtw FT was not bring into the picture here. It will just get more complex. The pt you drill on nicoll got more pts, facts, reasons in it and this are only some hear say you can bring out.
From your post, u seems to be pissed off with them for doing stringent checks. The result of stringent checks may be double work, but it is for the best. If they do not know anything, since they r the customer u should do your part and inform them, not thought oneself as lao jiao, act as big f$#k and show them attitude problems . I thought now we r aiming to improve on our service ? I guess singapore construction company not only had to their technical skills, they had to improve on customer service as well.Well well well, if you want to look at it this pt, than yes I am under this 'servant' And on which side of story why not you give one from the servant side than I give you mine.
I am not on the Gov side either, I assure u. But for tis thread u seems eager to be on the contractor side so I have no better choice but be on the opposite side of the fence.Really even I have any paper to show, It will not be shown here. By exchange pt with you, who know who will be knocking my door next. Try harder for the next pt.
Then tat is just too bad. Seems most singaporean still has tis phobia of gov agents knocking on their doors for watever they do.You must have a very poor understanding of english. Hmmm... no must be my english that you dun understand, more than 2 time i did wrote that I am out of construction field and here you drill on it. It a fact from what i had see in the past where and when I am around. So why you had to say I am the cause. When did I curse the ppl and singapore that pinnacle will fail?
But u r in the field before isn't it. Wat is the point of the below statement then ?
Last, happy staying on the top floor of Pinnacle if it did complete
Wat do u mean by "if it did complete" ? Wat r u trying to imply here ? Who is the one tat bring pinnacle into the picture ? Aren't u saying tat because of low bids from construction company, tat is why something bad is gonna happened to it in the end ?One man local coy will cause it to fail. Why not you just take note how many one man local coy will closed shop for this project. I will see how long this project will take. It was say to be complete by 2009 and full completion is somewhere 2013 if I am not wrong. I will like to see how many crane going to topple for this project as well.
Okie, lets see about it. Lets see if they will extend the date of completion away from 2013 or not. Lets see if there r any companies gonna close shop because of tis project. Why don't we take note of this thread and if any of us still remember about it then we come to the conclusion about who is right or wrong about low bids. But then u r already cursing somethign wrong is gonna happened to the project isn't it ? Cranes toppling, date extended... something no future house owners like to hear...
I stress again, the project will not fail for even if it take 20 years it will still be complete. If it takes more than the contract stated time frame 1 day to 20 years, you and those who had pay the deposit is not consider fail than it not. So far no one has ever claim any delay from HDB.I stress one more time, the pt within this discussion was on the poor management of local construction company and poor logical business sence that the developer had and have today.
My point is taking low bid is common business sense. If u feel tat taking low bids r dumb, then too bad I am not gonna take it. -
Yes they will.
Yes you listed many but who is doing well now? You did not list any.
Never mind, if u feel tat these companies who r big enough to handle big projects like queenstown reallocation r not successful companies, then so be itMy responsibility? Common you want to ex change your view and it has to be my responsibility. It show what you are here. JV had and has been using in this field for as long as it been around, what do you mean I find it interesting to write it down. And you can just come withh all those KNN, LKK etc etc on me. What has KNN, LKK, NNB, CCB and PCC got to do here. EMPTY as ever.
U r writing something ths it is good sense to write down the full term for your abbreviations. It is your responsibility to inform the reader first about it. About those lkk, knn thingy, it is to illustrate tat putting down abbreviations tat no one knows is pretty dumb.Do you know what you are saying? more cranes, trucks, pile rig doesn't it cost more this way and more does not mean will be good. As mention, because of geotechnic reason, used once mean once why still drill on it? Even it can be used at other site, it will still be cheaper to get new one as the recover cost of the machine in the tunnel is higher than buy new one. Seriously me tired of explaining most of the thing here to you.
Well surely these cranes and trucks can be used many times. They can be used on other projects before and they can use it on future projects too. They r already paid for by previous projects. In the end the more they use these equipment, the lower cost price it had become. So in the end they can afford to bid lower isn't it ? Other than knowing about building, do u know about economy ? Can't recover the machine in the tunnel ? So they left it there and bury it ? Do they left cranes and trunks in the tunnel and bury it ?
Oh I am not smart, just that in this case I know a bit more than you as you had say you have no link to any and a no body.
U know why u r tired of explaining ? It is because u can't explain.Successful? All you mention infact are hanging around. I am asking for doing very well till now. If they are, why the share are not for those listed? and one more not all you mention are listed.
Why does it have to be listed in order for u to acknowledge they r successful ? Surely if they can handle certain big projects, they r already successful enough. How well do u want it to be ? World biggest construction company ? Then how about Sembcorp Construction ? He is listed isn't it ?Anyone who milk on employee will never be good in business as the employee are not working to the best and it a pt where you quote me that I am telling all not to work for companies.
Tat is your opinion. There r successful companies around tat r milking their employees to the max. I believe most Jap companies r like tat.Is there any more reputation to maintain here when he back out? It a fact ppl remember bad pts. It a No for the construction field. So what and where do you think they are at now? Still around? packing up or go into hibernation now? Why not you find out 1st rather than you down here say thing which you not sure at all Just another empty point from you.
Since u say it is a NO, then why the hell r u keep trying to say they PURPOSELY bid low, lower than cost price, then RUN away altogether ? Which reputable companies do tat ? U probably have bad reading skills... U don't even know wat point am I answering toSound like you are one FT. Again which pt you dun get on one man company, monkey business, 2nd post Anyone who milk on employee will never be good in business as the employee are not working to the best You are just shallow to say I judge company by how much they pay and it out of pt as well. (lost count on how many out of pt here) It in (-) as high pay FT and low pay FT
I am not a FT (foreign talent). As said before, it is your opinion tat those who milk employees r not good companies. IMO the important thing is moltivation, not just monetary. Japanese companies certainly milk their employees more than local companies, so they r all crap and unsuccessful ? Out of point ? U don't knwo how to read bah
Good pt. on the delay like NEL. Do you know what is the claim made by SBS on LTA? This is only the 2 of them, what abt the rest of the contractors doing the whole line? Do you know the types of claim was made for the delay? Why? Cover lost? Delay is never an option in construction.
They have agreed on a time for completion of work. If they cannot finish in time, then don't agree. When they delay projects, SBS r really losing money since opening earlier will result in making money earlier.Talking abt what types and how many claims was made and the what sub sub contractor had to do with all this delay? Isn't this out of pt here.
Tat is to reply on your "Do you know the types of claim was made for the delay? Why? Cover lost? Delay is never an option in construction" which is the later part of your reply. From your funny language here, the only idea I get is they claim something from the line of constructors because of some delay. So here I am saying tat if they cause delay then it is their fault. Why is it out of point ?So a no one is talking abt policy now??? A progress is met and a claim submitted why payment had to be delay. Policy? It a contract here. Internal policy has nothing to do with it at all. If this is not out of pt, pls tell me what base on this pt?
The thing here is on funds. They give a delay in giving payment doesn't mean they have no funds, to me it just means they suffer more red tape. BTW wat do u mean by "If this is not out of pt, pls tell me what base on this pt?". Have u ever read which reply am I answering to ?Thank for a good example. the manager here is like the PM, CM, SM. The one in MacDonald can decide, he did not need to call back US for instruction. But in construction this so call manager need to call the PD as in your example than he will have to call US for instruction. So if this is not a one man coy to you, what can I say.
The cashier here is not the manager and cannot decide on certain issues like compensation for customers. The cleaner do not have any rights either. Only the manager can make such a decision. However the manager need the help of the other worker for a successful Macdonald joint. It is not a one man team, but a team. Certain decisions have to made by higher management, but it doesn't mean it is only an individual working and not a team. I am sure the decision on sellign away the company has to be made by the board of director and not the cleaners there.So again some no one here give % to me. I did say a guide or a benchmark is needed b4 offer to the bider if it is near there it fine with me dun you get?
As said by u, it is just a guide. The guide do take into consideration safety margin, negotiation fess and profit. SO in the end u r empty and can't prove your point tat they purposely bid ultra low for ... well, IYO for running away...What do you mean by talk again, so you are telling me there is under table going on here is it? And to top it up with cash is that not a lost? If the lost is too great will they not pack up and run?
I am saying there r always discussion between the companies. They have to update on their progress and problems to the main company isn't it ? If they got problems they can always talk with them. Why does things have to be "under the table" ? Tis is an open and legal means isn't it ?
Will a reputable company pack up and run ? DO u think they r so dumb to bid ultra low to the point of heavy loss ? Again wat is the rationale for doing tat ?Yes and I dare. MNC do do that. We are talking abt Construction field here and inculde those in the Oil, petrol, gas and chemical and some building developer they the MNC will top up to the contractor as I have witness it myself when the next closer tender to the benchmark calculated by MNC. Even with the top up, that contractor oso cannot make it. So what do you have to say now for those who had no idea or simply they dun know how tender. Why talk to them as you memtion earlier is it? For the local context it never a win win situation but for the MNC it seem like it or I should say YES it is
I am saying does ALL MNC do tat. Can u say tat does all MNC do tat, not if any MNC do tat. I can be sure there r MNC tat operates like HDB too. And for your example, if they can't make it even with the top up, then it just means tat company is dumb, can't calculate and is just one case. I can give hundreds of examples tat the company refuse to top up and the contractor still finish the job.
BTW wat the hell do u mean by "For the local context it never a win win situation but for the MNC it seem like it or I should say YES it is"I had never say low is wrong business sence as i had stress a few time, It way below. The same example again, if you need $10 to do something and some one come saying he can do it with $0.10 and you let him. it just show how good you are.
I have give a good answer to tat before. Your definition of "way below" is not really way below. Your earlier real life example seems to be a mere difference of just 7%. Is tat way below ?? -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
It still a reply. Nothing to say, just leave it.
[b]
Do u have a concept with time ? Tat post is to reply your earlier post on
[b] -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Why not you read back what is your reply.
THEREFORE tis reply had NOTHING to do with your one man company theory. Is about TENDERING LOW BIDS ! Why don't u read it all back again. -
Again the pt on high tech is bring in by you. An out of pt reply from you get an out of pt reply from me.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Tat is out of point to tis topic. I never say tat gov had listen to the people before making decision either. I never say tat the manless system is better than the manned system either. Why do u want to tell tis to me ? -
I say way below why you still dun get it WAY BELOW read back on what progress claim again.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Again I ask, why the heck do they wanna bid way below cost price ? WHY ? U keep accusing them of bidding below cost price, but WHY will they wanna do tat ???? How do u know they r bidding below cost price ? So they can run away with the money ? I thought u say they r already in progress payment system ? -
Ha 1st my english poor, now I am just a worker. if you have no other pt, you can just leave it... you yourself wrote you are a no one or what so ever, now start to say I am one of you. EMPTYOriginally posted by stupidissmart:I don't know who u r and I certainly don't know if u r in the field or not. Just because u say u r in tis field, makes u one ? Maybe I am in the field too but I do not say it out. Maybe u r just a construction worker and u claims u know a lot of things because u hear a lot of rumours. Without proving anything, u r probably nothing -
Down here show you know nothing about number, nothing about what is cost prize and what is retail prize. My is exaggerate, so what if I had put it at $1.00 up to $4.00, to you will still be silly.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I think your figure is silly. If someone promise to sell u a nike shoe for $200 while the store next door sell u $180 for the same model, which will u choose ? This is not just business sense, it is common sense. I am pretty sure my figure r more realistic than yours, a difference of 100 times.
Again make clear what is cost prize and retail prize. shoe for $200 and next door $180, you will buy next door. I will buy at whole sale for $80. EMPTY and tatally out of pt with what 100times? -
Why not you read back what is your reply...
Sure,Tat can be a possible scenario, but if a company is prepared to play fraud, then there seems very limited for the other party to do anything.
I don't see any one man company in here after reading it again. care to enlighten me ?
If we follow wat u say, then everyone here should not work for companies. Why ? Because there r cases of boss running away from the company because they had asconded with their money. People should not put a deposit for stuff like cars or houses as well. Why ? Because there r cases of companies running away with their money and never deliver the product.
So wat do u suggest then ? Don't use quotations at all ?Again the pt on high tech is bring in by you. An out of pt reply from you get an out of pt reply from me.
Hmm when did Singapore did that. Even it has just like what you ask do u like to pay this extra ? the ppl pay and what can we the ppl say abt it. Isn't NELP supposed to cut and safe cost, look what excuse was used? why it was not factor in way back thanposted by joshua
About NEL, r u sure they purposely go and find a contractor tat had request for a high price ? I thought the cost of NEL is due to the implementation of "high technology"... my reply
Wat is out of point for my part ? U asked wat excuse they use for the high price of northeast line, I say the excuse they use for increasing cost is because they use "high technology" isn't it ? U ask I reply, wat is out of point to tis ? Aren't u the one out of point to talk about NEL in the first placeI say way below why you still dun get it WAY BELOW read back on what progress claim again.
I said your example of way way below is faulty and does not follow the example u yourself had given. R u not sure u r not the one tat need to read back the replies ?Ha 1st my english poor, now I am just a worker. if you have no other pt, you can just leave it... you yourself wrote you are a no one or what so ever, now start to say I am one of you
R u any better ? First u poke fun of my sign in name, then u try to correct my english when it is u who is wrong, then u say I am empty when u yourself had proven to be an empty vessel. Why can't I start off some verbal abuses on u too ? -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
unless you are one of 'them' or one of the contractor, what you write here just to shiock yourself.
From your post, u seems to be pissed off with them for doing stringent checks. The result of stringent checks may be double work, but it is for the best. If they do not know anything, since they r the customer u should do your part and inform them, not thought oneself as lao jiao, act as big f$#k and show them attitude problems . I thought now we r aiming to improve on our service ? I guess singapore construction company not only had to their technical skills, they had to improve on customer service as well. -
Try harder.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I am not on the Gov side either, I assure u. But for tis thread u seems eager to be on the contractor side so I have no better choice but be on the opposite side of the fence.
no choice??? dun write lor. contradict yourself??? -
Down here show you know nothing about number, nothing about what is cost prize and what is retail prize. My is exaggerate, so what if I had put it at $1.00 up to $4.00, to you will still be silly.
I am sure u r the empty vessel tat knows nothing about numbers. Giving me 0.10 bid for the cost price of $10. Empty, just empty. I give a better analogy and u still think u r better at figures. The issue is on the price, not whetehr it is retail or buying satays or hawkering. Pathetic, real pathetic. U go and buy from whole sale for $80, then doesn't tat makes u the same as HDB ? U also go for the lowest bid mah ! Empty 100 times over, boy man who is the empty vessel here. Don't even know wat your stand is.
Again make clear what is cost prize and retail prize. shoe for $200 and next door $180, you will buy next door. I will buy at whole sale for $80.