gov's double standards
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i quote the follwing article from Weekend Today ( 10th July)
http://www.todayonline.com/index_home.htm
Why upgrade when some degrees go unrecognised?
After reading the letter by Mr Kelvin Goh Chin Teck, "Degree from reputable Aussie university not recognised" (July 1) and the Ministry of Education's reply (July
, I am really bothered.
Years ago, I read about a non-graduate woman teacher who earned a part-time degree in English at the Open University. She was shocked that the MOE did not recognise it and continued to pay her a non-graduate's wage.
The Government is constantly encouraging people to upgrade themselves to stay relevant. But the public service's attitude seems more ambiguous.
Based on the experiences of my peers, Government bodies do not seem to recognise degrees from part-time overseas programs based here, even if they are awarded by well-known universities.
I do not understand why the civil service can't simply come out and say that it does not recognise degrees from part-time overseas programs here. Do not make us invest our time and money in upgrades that are not recognised.
William Tneah Chye Heng -
i suggested to one of my junior staff who wanted to get a part-time degree to seek greener pastures as the department will not recognise his..
which i think is weird....
the part-timers work even harder and show that they are capable of juggling both a job and studies... and are therefore better equipped to handle things at their jobs...
oh well.. we are led by a bunch of "scholars" who haven't a clue... -
Well, officially the civil service, or rather the PM said himself that degrees from places such as SIM-OUC are recognised. In SIMOUC, many people earn part time degree from foreign universities.
Well ,according to few people I met who have encounters with MOE or SPF, such degrees are not recognised or are not given the qulaification they deserve.
Its logical to say we have to give priority to degree gotten from local uni first, but its absurd to make a statement that the civil serivce recognise them, and followed by ambiguities arising when one approach a ministry HR dept. -
precisely.
my previous boss missed out on a promotion exercise not because
he was not performing. but because the one who got promoted, is a scholar.
my boss was a poly grad when he 1st joined the organisation. left to further study. came back, slogged for 21 years jus to be a section head. 50 plus liao and full of experience yet a 32 years old scholar who jus joined the org for 3 years got the post.
when tat guy was promoted, eveyone in the department chim xim about the org. and it was a sady day for us when my ex boss opted for early retirement a few months later. chim xim. i left months later.Originally posted by the Bear:i suggested to one of my junior staff who wanted to get a part-time degree to seek greener pastures as the department will not recognise his..
which i think is weird....
the part-timers work even harder and show that they are capable of juggling both a job and studies... and are therefore better equipped to handle things at their jobs...
oh well.. we are led by a bunch of "scholars" who haven't a clue... -
Sometimes the knowledge from courses also not used during work. SO what's the big deal about certification? -
Is my 1.85m problematic, high sex drive, unfaithful, gangster, sexy model, a bit tranvastite and fake nehsnehs brea$t, Panikehumdingdong, Tiao Zha WIFE and the baby recognised?
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gov cannot come out and admit they have an unofficial rules on this overseas degree... coz... they are trying to promote sg as an educational hub....coz it's a big business....
but....most ppl in sg know about it..... so my advice to ppl... die die try go jc then sg uni lor...dun be siao on and go poly then part time study and think u can save money and time and still can a degree...... like mine also not recognise.. want to take my MBA in ntu or nus also cannot now.. sighz
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so u mean cannot use Overseas part-time degree to apply for MASTER in NTU or NUS?.Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):gov cannot come out and admit they have an unofficial rules on this overseas degree... coz... they are trying to promote sg as an educational hub....coz it's a big business....
but....most ppl in sg know about it..... so my advice to ppl... die die try go jc then sg uni lor...dun be siao on and go poly then part time study and think u can save money and time and still can a degree...... like mine also not recognise.. want to take my MBA in ntu or nus also cannot now.. sighz -
does overseas part-time degree recognised in their native country like Australia?
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depend on which one lor.. some i know is officially they accept ur application but will never select u for it lor... but for mine... i can't even apply lah..... long story lah...Originally posted by The Hobbit:so u mean cannot use Overseas part-time degree to apply for MASTER in NTU or NUS?. -
Well, I think best advise here is to check out whether a degree is recognized before signing up for it loh. Maybe they have bad experience with previous person who hold the same degree, who knows.
And if you check, make sure you remember who you talk to. So, if next time information not correct, at least you can quote who said it is recognized. -
let's me if u a real life example.
a former colleague of mine was taking a part-time Language course before she came to the organisation. She was told during her interview that she would have to start as a lower grade officer and upon her completion of her studies, she would then be given a higher grade.
however during the annual SAR review, her Manager told her tat part -time degree is still not recognised in the civil service. after her completion of the degree course she would jus be a grade higher than the initial batch she started with. meaning she would still be in the same scheme as poly grads and A' levels holders. , but a fresh degree holder would start his/her career in a different scheme.
so whether or notthe cert is a relevant cert or not, as long as it's a part-time degree, chances are u would still be stuck in the same scheme as u started before.Originally posted by Parka: Sometimes the knowledge from courses also not used during work. SO what's the big deal about certification? -
Ladies n gentlemen, if you die die wan2 join the gahmen sector, OF CORS you need to study local/overseas full-time! NO PART_TIME DEGREES!!!! you mean your counsellors or teachers or whoever neber tell you?! Oh...too bad..you dun have my sympathies if you have a part-time degree and neh-see wan2 join the gahmen., and start to complain this one not recog, dat one not recog.
The gahmen neber tell you go upgrade and join the pubic sector, the gahmen tell you to go upgrade to aid you in finding a job a better!
In western MNCS, they recog any reputable degree. Not juz some US colleges who calls themselves XXX State University or some UK/Aust polytechnics that call themselves WYSIWYG University of Technology.
In eastern companies, they recog many part-time deg, but so as long as you are worth that higher post then you can climb. Even if you ITE/Poly, you still can climb as long as you achieve something which management appreciates.
Tips: Karaoke with the Japs, work OT with the Japs, smoke with the Japs, shag with the Japs!
But not in western MNCs, if you want that Snr title, you better get a degree! -
Not just the government but all employers need to be wary about recognition of degrees.
NUS, NTU, SMU, SIM and other local degrees are generally recognised because of their familiarity, as they are all homegrown. Some are government supported and work with the MOE. So it is only natural that recognition is taken for granted.
But there are many, many other universities in the world. In some cases, degrees are conferred without even having to attend any courses. You can even gain doctorate degrees thataway!! Pay your money, and buy that degree!
So what's to be recognised or not is a fairly complicated matter. If one is worried about recognition, one should make sure that the institution one selects is reputable. The US Ivy League unis are universally recognised, as are the top uni degrees from England and Australia. As for the rest....
At the bottomline of course, what counts is job-performance. Degrees are supposed to give a rough gauge of what a person is supposed to be able to do, or to achieve, with some experience. -
BINGO! you've hit the nail on the head.Originally posted by the Bear:oh well.. we are led by a bunch of "scholars" who haven't a clue...
Our HDB, SpringSingapore and most of the government is and will continue to be ruined by Clueless Scholars who are better off in academics. -
hmm how about degrees thru PSB academy? i supposed that is related to civil service somehow right??? me interested in getting IT degree from there leh, now working in garment sectorOriginally posted by witness:Not just the government but all employers need to be wary about recognition of degrees.
NUS, NTU, SMU, SIM and other local degrees are generally recognised because of their familiarity, as they are all homegrown. Some are government supported and work with the MOE. So it is only natural that recognition is taken for granted. -
There r too many university in the world... in china there more than 1000 of them. If they come from recognise Univesity, they will treat him better than the one graduate from local U. I see it is unfair to recognise everyone the same from any university... Even in private sector or other companies, they do look at which university u come from.
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guys, hear me out...
the minute you start to play by their recog vs. unrecog rules, you endorse the system's relevance. the world is much much DIVERSE than singapore, maybe you should look at alternative offerings, you have a CHOICE, why let others dictate the terms of your life? but if you tell yourself, nah all my friends and family are here, so cannot move, then dont complain
and...
before you invest in another higher learning course, i highly recommend you go read this book written by Henry Mintzberg a professor teaching management at McGill, the books is called MANAGERS, NOT MBAs. The tide is changing -
public service huh. u're div II officer?
if u're taking a part time degree course, regardless SIM or NTU or NUS or PSB
u'll still be stuck in the scheme as before. jus tat u would have an additional pay increment or abt 50 to 150.Originally posted by thoreldan:hmm how about degrees thru PSB academy? i supposed that is related to civil service somehow right??? me interested in getting IT degree from there leh, now working in garment sector -
How abt full time from SIM? also cannot right?Originally posted by foga:public service huh. u're div II officer?
if u're taking a part time degree course, regardless SIM or NTU or NUS or PSB
u'll still be stuck in the scheme as before. jus tat u would have an additional pay increment or abt 50 to 150.
In anyway, me dont think me want to go public service, so many ZHL here seems to have suffered -
i think robertteh wanted to post this but click on the private msg instead.
It is very tough act to ask government to recognize open uni degree for two reasons. (1) Major government policy of old guard - talents or meritocracy remain in place and unchanged (2) Existing system is deeply entrenched to prove the point that the old guards are right.
Pride, pride and pride cannot be hurt.
Changes : Old economy cannot work. Two recessions cannot be altered by talents who were helplessly at a loss. Talents policy were proven mistaken.
If talent policy was found misplaced, the proof is clear closed uni system does not guarantee results. Let open degree holders be the new generation to lead Singapore from position of underdog. -
the degree u'll get upon grad would be from the Uni, for ur case, RMIT itself.
in public sector, a degree is not enough.
Mr philllip( dunno whether he still around in A-Star) yeo once commented abt grads. "without a good degree, go wash test-tubes" - something like tat.
frankly speaking, i dunno how a full time degree earned from distance learning via SIM would fare against say a full time NTU/NUS grad ( assuming the same level ) in the eyes of the HR's manager.Originally posted by laurence82:How abt full time from SIM? also cannot right?
In anyway, me dont think me want to go public service, so many ZHL here seems to have suffered -
Hi everyone
I am a diploma holder fresh out of the army and can understand the situation. Its not just even about degree holders actually. For govt jobs that are suitable for diploma holders, they actually prefer to give to degree holders. I went for a quite a lot so I sort of get the idea. As for degree posts, go do a check and you will notice most of those employed are honours students.
To address the issue of why they don't openly admit it is simple. Not moral and ethical to do it openly. Simple as that. You can't expect the govt to "declare" they only want to accept NTU and NUS top honours students cause they are interested in papers can't you?
Another point someone mentioned about studying full time vs studying part time is quite shallow. Not everyone can afford to study full time for three years. I often suspect that most of the people who make this kind of statements are the types who have their parents paying for everything. School fees, cars and for some I know of even marriage and hdb apartments!
I guess that most job seekers after getting poked a few times would know better.
As for the final point someone mentioned about having limited view and being restricted, I agree. I had a taiwan friend living in Singapore who only had an ITE cert. Complained a lot to me that people do not give him chances( Same for my case even though I got a diploma!) I scolded him and guess where he is now. In China learining business from his Father who has his own company there. Sometimes people are just blind to the opportunities that are rite in front of their eyes.
My closing comment might make some angry but I feel its the truth. Education is good as a stepping stone. But the ultimate guage of success is when you can have your company and can become very rich and have more than a million. In spite of what they say, with enough money you can even change your environment. The CEO of Novena Furnitures said that too!
Like Henry Ford said before " Why should I know everything when at the push of a button, I can have people to give that info to me!" Like they say cash is king and even a Phd holder will have to bow before a mutli billionaire to work for him! -
Originally posted by Xenthar:
good point so no point in getting a doctorate now?
Hi everyone I am a diploma holder fresh out of the army and can understand the situation. Its not just even about degree holders actually. For govt jobs that are suitable for diploma holders, they actually prefer to give to degree holders. I went for a quite a lot so I sort of get the idea. As for degree posts, go do a check and you will notice most of those employed are honours students.
To address the issue of why they don't openly admit it is simple. Not moral and ethical to do it openly. Simple as that. You can't expect the govt to "declare" they only want to accept NTU and NUS top honours students cause they are interested in papers can't you?
Another point someone mentioned about studying full time vs studying part time is quite shallow. Not everyone can afford to study full time for three years. I often suspect that most of the people who make this kind of statements are the types who have their parents paying for everything. School fees, cars and for some I know of even marriage and hdb apartments!
I guess that most job seekers after getting poked a few times would know better.
As for the final point someone mentioned about having limited view and being restricted, I agree. I had a taiwan friend living in Singapore who only had an ITE cert. Complained a lot to me that people do not give him chances( Same for my case even though I got a diploma!) I scolded him and guess where he is now. In China learining business from his Father who has his own company there. Sometimes people are just blind to the opportunities that are rite in front of their eyes.
My closing comment might make some angry but I feel its the truth. Education is good as a stepping stone. But the ultimate guage of success is when you can have your company and can become very rich and have more than a million. In spite of what they say, with enough [b]money you can even change your environment. The CEO of Novena Furnitures said that too!
Like Henry Ford said before " Why should I know everything when at the push of a button, I can have people to give that info to me!" Like they say cash is king and even a Phd holder will have to bow before a mutli billionaire to work for him! [/b]