What So Big Deal About China
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I guess only LHL will know the answers himself.Originally posted by besen:Just be calm.
I am not to comment who is right or wrong on this matter. I just hope both sides should be sensitive to the other's interests, respect each other and try to make up the demage as much as possible.
A few questions:
1. What did SG gain from this visit?
2. What did China lose?
3. is there any alternative way? -
My view is that China has a right to reintegrate Taiwan and we cannot dispute that Taiwan is a legitimate province of China. Saying you want independence after 50 years of warfare doesn't make it right, just or happen. Singapore needs to continue to play an intermediary role and be viewed as a negotiator in a peaceful reunification process by both sides, that is the palatable position to be in. Technically they are still at war and one nation simply divided by the course of recent history. The United States carried out its Civil War when southern states wanted to separate over a matter of diffenet lifestyles and politics...and at massive cost the victor ensured the country remained together...China has the same right to prevent Taiwan from independence, for the US to prevent it is hyprocrisy.
I don't really think so... As I said before, Taiwan is still under chinese Gov, except tat it is KMT and not Communists. Looking from a history prospect, I don't really see any right for China to force taiwan to be part of the state. They r not at war anymore... No one is attacking the other. And this has carried on for many years. Even if u classified tat they r still having a war, they still have sovereign of their own country unless they surrender. It is like malaysia being occupied by japan during WW2, unless japan carry on its attack and conquer singapore (which it did), singapore is still under the british.
U can say about South and North forces in America war, but before the war is finished, the south remains under the jurisdiction of the south while the north is under its own control. Unless they complete the war, which america did, it remains as such. So unless china really occupied taiwan, then taiwan is very much its own nation.
Singapore better don't be kaypoh and do anything to both parties. Tis is not appreciated work and may develop potential problems. -
Originally posted by Qkool:what i say is internet..(cnn.com , bbc.com and so on)of-cos they can't block the satellite...and tons of unpay and 'fei fa' install satellite dishes ...
prove me wrong...
I managed to get to CNN.com, no problem at all! -
No, my dear, that super huge satellite uplink is not the radar system. It is a satcom system. A radar system is used for detection and navigation. A com system is used for...communications.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:opps i believe the super huge radar which they have on thier ship is for satellite uplink and simultaneous tracking of 100 targets leh...
The heart of the AEGIS systems is the AN/SPY-1, a multi-functional phased-array radar capable of automatic detection and tracking of targets. This high-powered (four megawatt) radar is able to perform search, track and missile guidance functions simultaneously with a capability of over 100 targets. The first Engineering Development Model (EDM-1) was installed in the test ship, USS Norton Sound (AVM 1) in 1973.
The system's computer- based command and decision element is the core of the AEGIS combat system. This interface makes the AEGIS combat system capable of simultaneous operation against a multi-mission threat: anti-air, anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare. [/img]
The entire Aegis system appears to be a combination of a Command & Control System integrated with a search and fire control radar. The phased array radar itself is capable of using its multiple beams for detection and tracking. The satcom uplink provides possibly some other strategic theatre functions. It is unlikely to play a direct part in the tracking of the 100 targets. -
go_china, i did read some of ur content regarding this sing-sino issue. im glad that u r proud to be PRC but as u hav seen or read...tat is if u really understood what ridiculous PRC govt threatened sing,,..its all but BS<----Bull Shit! Lets say if u wanted to visit a sick friend in hospital n another friend says no...what would u do?...You'd listen to whatever he said?...Moron if u did lol. I'd say well, Go ahead and visit your friend if you want to...I'll not threaten you or bla bla bla...lol...i'll be crazy to stop a friend from visiting his other friend...even if i hate the other friend lmao!! so?..whats the big problem?...Singapore is its own nation ..so i support DMP Lee for visiting any country...same goes to if your friend dont want to visit the friend in hospital, its the same , you cant just force him to go visit!!...becourse its our own life we r living and our freedom too...no one can take it away from us unless if we did some crime ..lol...LMFAO...as though visiting a country that PRC hate is a crime LMAO......c'mon PRC..let it go..dont start saying (s h i t) or bla bla bla...you cant force or tell Singapore who they can or cannot visit...its the same...Singapore cant tell PRC who they should visit or not!....Grow up. its no more of those Emperor days where every life will live or die at the hands of the Chinese Emperor. Its past MILLENIUM PRC dudes....so stop think of DICTATING LOL. maybe u PRC peeps r used to being dictated lol..but this is Singapore...no Dictating of ppl here...its called Control and not Dictate...
--->wonder if PRC govt ordered their ppl not to go toilet when they r urgent for the call of nature...dont tell me u would obey that !!! ROFL.... -
No big deal at all, just that our GOV think so, wanna bet? someone will change what was say or do somthing after sometime for the big deal.
maybe the father busy making call everyday now... -
thx for correcting my mistakeOriginally posted by StMichael:No, my dear, that super huge satellite uplink is not the radar system. It is a satcom system. A radar system is used for detection and navigation. A com system is used for...communications.
The entire Aegis system appears to be a combination of a Command & Control System integrated with a search and fire control radar. The phased array radar itself is capable of using its multiple beams for detection and tracking. The satcom uplink provides possibly some other strategic theatre functions. It is unlikely to play a direct part in the tracking of the 100 targets. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:I don't really think so... As I said before, Taiwan is still under chinese Gov, except tat it is KMT and not Communists. Looking from a history prospect, I don't really see any right for China to force taiwan to be part of the state. They r not at war anymore... No one is attacking the other. And this has carried on for many years. Even if u classified tat they r still having a war, they still have sovereign of their own country unless they surrender. It is like malaysia being occupied by japan during WW2, unless japan carry on its attack and conquer singapore (which it did), singapore is still under the british.
U can say about South and North forces in America war, but before the war is finished, the south remains under the jurisdiction of the south while the north is under its own control. Unless they complete the war, which america did, it remains as such. So unless china really occupied taiwan, then taiwan is very much its own nation.
Singapore better don't be kaypoh and do anything to both parties. Tis is not appreciated work and may develop potential problems. -
creating a big hoo-ha over a small matter
china's stance is very dominating. Too sensitive over this...
maybe put it as accidental tourist? haha -
anyway ... as i mentioned in my earlier post ... unless the Chinese government don't learn to behave properly .... they will continue to create big problems out of a small mole .... and as history shown .... the Chinese government are more inclined t0 be proud and think they are the greatest
If they behaved properly and be more democratic in the past, I believed that China is already a stronghold nation now.
But in China's tainted history, there are a lot of corruptions between the government officials. For example, In the Ming Dynasty, China is invaded by the mongolians and was replaced by the Qing Dynasty. This is because that the officials are corrupted and blinded by power.
An Example that the Chinese Government love to cover up things is that the Recent SARS case. What did Dr. Jiang do to be detained ? He only told the world the truth.
I strongly believe that the Chinese Government needs to be changed for China to be a stronghold nation. I am sad that the Chinese Government has changed too much since Deng Xiao Peng.
By the way, Hong Kong sinced the Chinese Government took over has not been doing well as in the past when the British Goverment controlled it. -
to me, the true leader of PRC is xiao ping and mao 'tongzi'.Originally posted by baplov:anyway ... as i mentioned in my earlier post ... unless the Chinese government don't learn to behave properly .... they will continue to create big problems out of a small mole .... and as history shown .... the Chinese government are more inclined t0 be proud and think they are the greatest
If they behaved properly and be more democratic in the past, I believed that China is already a stronghold nation now.
But in China's tainted history, there are a lot of corruptions between the government officials. For example, In the Ming Dynasty, China is invaded by the mongolians and was replaced by the Qing Dynasty. This is because that the officials are corrupted and blinded by power.
An Example that the Chinese Government love to cover up things is that the Recent SARS case. What did Dr. Jiang do to be detained ? He only told the world the truth.
I strongly believe that the Chinese Government needs to be changed for China to be a stronghold nation. I am sad that the Chinese Government has changed too much since Deng Xiao Peng.
By the way, Hong Kong sinced the Chinese Government took over has not been doing well as in the past when the British Goverment controlled it.
dare to speak up to the strong nation and understand small country like singapore. -
Yeah true..XiaoPing and ZhiDong may have been harsh on their own ppl but at least they they how and when things are just petty issues...and they dont really bother about other nation's business. they were not so petty n narrow minded like the current leaders. making things look like a disaster over this issue. LMAO i cant believe this...making the news so HARD when they kept sooooo very quiet abt SARS and only admitted when they cant hide it any further!...LMFAO! what a sham and full of Shame! Im not trying to say they created Sars or anything..at least they could have shared and alerted the world that a new deadly virus has surfaced! maybe PRC giovt wanted to get nobel prize to be the first to find a cure lol! how wrong and it killed many. what can u say abt that?....thats a crime for covering up too but the world is more forgiving to overlook PRCs misgivings!....so PRC govt.....stfu, grow up.
Dont make ppl see you as little children in a man suit. We, Singaporeans have every RIGHTS to visit when and where we want to. Not to sound bias, the Prc ppl also hav every rights to go where they want to. But talking (S.H.I.T) and trying to decide which nation can visit which country, its as good as trying to undermine Sing govt's decision and intelligence. so thats <---BS (BullS h i t!)
we maynot be united in our countrie's policies but thats for our own singaporean to say or bear abt it...but Alien verbal threat and abuse?...Its A F u c k i n g BIG NO NO!...so shut it PRC and get on with life...unless if this is the only kinda life u love living going around ordering ppl bla bla bla...=SAD [/quote] -
Actually HongKong is doing fine. Their economy is fast recovering. HongKong may appear chaotic to many of you but that's because they are a matured democracy. Unlike Singapore where gathering of 5 or more people is considered illegal assembly, the people of HongKong have every right to protest and speak up against matters they don't like. This is how a real democracy works.Originally posted by baplov:By the way, Hong Kong sinced the Chinese Government took over has not been doing well as in the past when the British Goverment controlled it. -
One must not be simplistic in comparing Hong Kong before and after China took over. Bear in mind that China took over in 1997, the same yr financial crisis struck Asia and HK was hit in no way lighter than any other country.Originally posted by baplov:By the way, Hong Kong sinced the Chinese Government took over has not been doing well as in the past when the British Goverment controlled it.
HK has actually done well. What they were facing were much worse than Singapore: 1. Properties prices went down, Shenzhen and other Chinese southern cities grew stronger and really threaten their position. Many HK ppl now go to these places for properties. 2. Ports in Guangzhou and Zhuhai are taking away HK business. 3. Taiwanese can now go into China via Macau, hence reduce reliance on HK airport. 4. HK have to continue to depend on trade, services and finance, without manufacturing. 5. Shanghai threatening their financial center position.
With so much against them, they have done well.
What is interesting to see is that they are moving a step further, going for more political freedom. We see year after year over half a million ppl take to the streets. Even in Indonesia we saw a big election with 5 parties involved went on peacefully. In Singapore, our government is still afraid that any strong opposition will jeopardise our political stability, any political rally will fraighten away investors.
Sigh!! It is about time Singapore can show others that we have also grown up. Sorry I digress a bit, just can't help seeing the difference. -
it seems a lot of people in Singapore appears to understand China? But is it so? Truelly speaking, many of you dont know what china is.
I am self a Chinese, I confess I dont know much about Singapore. Despite that, whenever Singapore is mentioned in China, Chinese people would mostly fondly take it as a country, with which we share a common cultural and historical root. So in our hearts, we dont have any animosity towards u. But here in this forum, i am so sorry to learn that common singaporians should have so much ill feeling towards us and even intend to look down upon us. As a Chinese, that is completely unacceptable to me.
About your Prince Lee's visit to TW, he has intentionally stepped upon a red line that China has always warned about. OK, if Singaporians think that it is their country's right to decide which country their head should visit, then china equally have right to react in its own way, and your Prince should already have known what the consequence would be before he went to TW. -
so what ppl in singaporean have ill feeling toward china chinese, the % of china chinese who been brainwash by china media sure more than the whole population of singapore.Originally posted by creamtart:it seems a lot of people in Singapore appears to understand China? But is it so? Truelly speaking, many of you dont know what china is.
I am self a Chinese, I confess I dont know much about Singapore. Despite that, whenever Singapore is mentioned in China, Chinese people would mostly fondly take it as a country, with which we share a common cultural and historical root. So in our hearts, we dont have any animosity towards u. But here in this forum, i am so sorry to learn that common singaporians should have so much ill feeling towards us and even intend to look down upon us. As a Chinese, that is completely unacceptable to me.
About your Prince Lee's visit to TW, he has intentionally stepped upon a red line that China has always warned about. OK, if Singaporians think that it is their country's right to decide which country their head should visit, then china equally have right to react in its own way, and your Prince should already have known what the consequence would be before he went to TW.
btw, the so call 'thin red line' , u china also dont know how to define.
anyway, thank for the missiles and missiles tech sold to malaysia.
Fair enough? still need any woman or anything? -
To say 'brainwash', singaporians like u are really 'brainwashed'. About u, i should agree with comments already made by others.Originally posted by Qkool:so what ppl in singaporean have ill feeling toward china chinese, the % of china chinese who been brainwash by china media sure more than the whole population of singapore.
btw, the so call 'thin red line' , u china also dont know how to define.
anyway, thank for the missiles and missiles tech sold to malaysia.
Fair enough? still need any woman or anything? -
it seems a lot of people in Singapore appears to understand China? But is it so? Truelly speaking, many of you dont know what china is.
it shuld be noted tat there r always people tat have extreme views in forums. Their stand is not the common stand of singapore, and we do not take the comments taken from chinese forums seriously either. I believe tat in chinese forums they r also badmouthing singapore agressively too. It is impossible to stop people from posting politically correct messages, just like it is impossible for chinese forum to stop posting insensitive messages too
I am self a Chinese, I confess I dont know much about Singapore. Despite that, whenever Singapore is mentioned in China, Chinese people would mostly fondly take it as a country, with which we share a common cultural and historical root. So in our hearts, we dont have any animosity towards u. But here in this forum, i am so sorry to learn that common singaporians should have so much ill feeling towards us and even intend to look down upon us. As a Chinese, that is completely unacceptable to me.About your Prince Lee's visit to TW, he has intentionally stepped upon a red line that China has always warned about. OK, if Singaporians think that it is their country's right to decide which country their head should visit, then china equally have right to react in its own way, and your Prince should already have known what the consequence would be before he went to TW.
The thing is tat it had resort to threats. Lets say US forces chinese to unpeg the value of RMB, othewise they will launch a war against u. It is their right to launch a war they desire too isn't it ? They have an equal right to react in its own way too ? Japan insist of using his army in searching a soldier in china who they claimed is a desertee. If chinese do not allow them to search, they will launch a war against them. China really refuse and Japanese really start the war against chinese during WW2. So chinese has the right to reject japan, but japan is right since he has the right to react in his own ways ?
No country should threathen other nations to perform they things they wanted. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Chinese government just gives warnings and never threatens war against Singapore. I think there is fundamental difference between the two concepts. If Prince Lee went to TW and the mainland government vioced no complaint(just as you wish), that would indeed be strange.
The thing is tat it had resort to [b]threats. Lets say US forces chinese to unpeg the value of RMB, othewise they will launch a war against u. It is their right to launch a war they desire too isn't it ? They have an equal right to react in its own way too ? Japan insist of using his army in searching a soldier in china who they claimed is a desertee. If chinese do not allow them to search, they will launch a war against them. China really refuse and Japanese really start the war against chinese during WW2. So chinese has the right to reject japan, but japan is right since he has the right to react in his own ways ?
No country should threathen other nations to perform they things they wanted. [/b] -
Do not assume that those who post here represent the views and opinion of common singaporean. Just like I do not think you represent generally the mainland Chinese.Originally posted by creamtart:it seems a lot of people in Singapore appears to understand China? But is it so? Truelly speaking, many of you dont know what china is.
I am self a Chinese, I confess I dont know much about Singapore. Despite that, whenever Singapore is mentioned in China, Chinese people would mostly fondly take it as a country, with which we share a common cultural and historical root. So in our hearts, we dont have any animosity towards u. But here in this forum, i am so sorry to learn that common singaporians should have so much ill feeling towards us and even intend to look down upon us. As a Chinese, that is completely unacceptable to me.
About your Prince Lee's visit to TW, he has intentionally stepped upon a red line that China has always warned about. OK, if Singaporians think that it is their country's right to decide which country their head should visit, then china equally have right to react in its own way, and your Prince should already have known what the consequence would be before he went to TW.
As a person, whether you are mainland Chinese or Singaporean, you uphold yoursellf by they way you behave, or in such forum, what you say. People will also look down on you if you say stupid things.
Do not crown LHL as prince, please. We don do that in Singapore. We vote PAP into the parliament and PAP selected the PM to run the cabinet and the country. Not even in China do you crown anybody as emperor or prince anymore, even if you still do not have the right to vote. -
1. What I say here in the forum only represents what I think as a common PRC citizen.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Do not assume that those who post here represent the views and opinion of common singaporean. Just like I do not think you represent generally the mainland Chinese.
As a person, whether you are mainland Chinese or Singaporean, you uphold yoursellf by they way you behave, or in such forum, what you say. People will also look down on you if you say stupid things.
Do not crown LHL as prince, please. We don do that in Singapore. We vote PAP into the parliament and PAP selected the PM to run the cabinet and the country. Not even in China do you crown anybody as emperor or prince anymore, even if you still do not have the right to vote.
2. I dont think what I do and say here degrades or shames myself. you should look down upon those singaporians who said and did stupid things. -
I think the issues here is all about sovereignty.. Every state in the world is very protective of their soversignty... After all it is the very reason for their (the state) exsitence.
Sad to say, protecting one's sovereignty in this interconnecting world often means that we will have to infringe upon other's sovereignty... There is countless examples that one can quote. A simple example would be, we wanted haze-free air in Spore, so we wanted Indonesia to stop the forest fire. Indonesia has the right to say "it's my forest we are burning what.." or something aloong that line.. (Don't flame me.. as I know that this issues can well lead to another round of debate.. Just quoting an example)
In this case, Sporean will feel that it is our right to visit who we want to visit. PRC will feel that we are recongizing Taiwan as a independent state thus threatening their sovereignty.
I guess this is where diplomacy comes in. Negotiate something where every county will be satisifed.. -
And about the LEE 'empire'---quoto from The EconomistOriginally posted by sgdiehard:Do not assume that those who post here represent the views and opinion of common singaporean. Just like I do not think you represent generally the mainland Chinese.
As a person, whether you are mainland Chinese or Singaporean, you uphold yoursellf by they way you behave, or in such forum, what you say. People will also look down on you if you say stupid things.
Do not crown LHL as prince, please. We don do that in Singapore. We vote PAP into the parliament and PAP selected the PM to run the cabinet and the country. Not even in China do you crown anybody as emperor or prince anymore, even if you still do not have the right to vote.
Mr Lee hardly seems the plunging type. He is the son of Singapore' s founding father, Lee Kuan Yew, and shares his father's measured, practical and technocratic approach to government. He also shares a somewhat condescending, didactic bent, and a tendency to chide and admonish rather than charm and encourage. His speeches brim with grim economic prognoses and stern injunctions to Singaporeans to tighten their belts. After a 14-year interval under the affable Goh Chok Tong, most Singaporeans will find the reversion of leadership to the Lee dynasty more like a cold shower than an exhilarating leap into the unknown.
Mr Lee senior, now 80 years old, still sits in the cabinet (as senior minister, rather than prime minister), and supervises the Government Investment Corporation (GIC), which manages Singapore's foreign reserves. Meanwhile, Mr Lee junior's wife, Ho Ching, runs Temasek, a government holding company that owns stakes in Singapore's biggest firms, while his brother, Lee Hsien Yang, runs Singapore Telecommunications, the biggest local firm of all.
Fans of the family argue that this concentration of power stems simply from its members' remarkable talent, not their connections. They claim the younger Mr Lee's rapid ascent through the ranks of the army to become a brigadier-general by the age of 32 rested purely on merit, as did his promotion to the post of deputy prime minister after only six years in politics.
The prime-minister-to-be certainly projects great intelligence and determination. He has survived a bout of cancer and stoically endured the death of his first wife. While in the army, he directed the dramatic rescue of passengers stranded in a disabled cable car. As finance minister, he has presided over a much-needed and much-delayed liberalisation of the financial sector. His father says that he would already be prime minister were it not for misplaced concerns about nepotism.
But many Singaporeans assume that Mr Lee père struck a deal with Mr Goh, engineering his rise to power in exchange for a promise that he would eventually give way to Mr Lee fils. At any rate, Mr Goh made the younger Mr Lee his deputy from the moment he succeeded the elder Mr Lee as prime minister, in 1990. The new man has never had any rivals. The members of the ruling People's Action Party (PAP), which controls all but two seats in parliament, selected him unanimously as prime minister, as did the party's executive committee and the cabinet.
The new Mr Lee appears to see nothing wrong with this sort of arrangement. He fiercely defends the PAP's more underhand election tactics, such as threatening to put districts that vote for the opposition at the bottom of the list for public spending. He claims to want a more vigorous public debate, but promises to “demolish” any critic who undermines the government's standing. The threat is real: in recent years, one opposition figure found himself bankrupt after losing a defamation suit, while another wound up in jail. -
No, there is nothing you said that I should look down on you. Any way I do not form opinion based on one or two postings.Originally posted by creamtart:1. What I say here in the forum only represents what I think as a common PRC citizen.
2. I dont think what I do and say here degrades or shames myself. you should look down upon those singaporians who said and did stupid things.
In my opinion you are not a common PRC citizen, you are overseas and you expressed well in english.
Keep posting and let us hear more about what PRC chinese think, be constructive and positive. Thanks. -
Chinese government just gives warnings and never threatens war against Singapore. I think there is fundamental difference between the two concepts. If Prince Lee went to TW and the mainland government vioced no complaint(just as you wish), that would indeed be strange.
As i said before, china is threatening people not to go to taiwan which is really none of his business. Although war is a bit too heavy, but then the concept is the same. China refuse to obey Japan in letting them search for the soldier, thus Japan can have the right to launch a war ? We cannot resort to threats such as claiming the ties will be off and start a series of actions or war to force other people to do wat u want. Tat is threathening. How do u feel if u r threathen to do a thing which u do not desire ?