What So Big Deal About China
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As a Singaporean Chinese, i guess it would be the most appropriate race and nationality to comment on this issue.
Taiwan is an instrumental ally to us, this cannot be doubted. They provided us with land for our military exercises, and provided us with economical and technologcal security in the midst of China's Cultural Revolution, and Big Four's chaos. Hence historically, we are indebted to them, for they did not turn away a ailing small nation.
China in turn, has become something like a two-faced man. Relations blow hot, blow cold, and this is something not promising for a country dependent on global trade(Singapore). Singapore has so far done nothing that should infuriate China. And even though we have a population of 70% Chinese, we are not subordinated to any Chinese Govt. Taiwan has remained our ally through these years, due our American relations, and due to our commitments there.
But i have to say that, China-Bashing is no answer. No matter what govt is in control of China, our roots are still in the land mass of China. We are still Chinese, and we'll still support one another. Why let politics destroy your roots?
The Communist Party had their Cultural Revolution and other upheavals. But what makes you think we're so much off better? We had our dialects waved away in order to make the political climate in Singapore more favorable for the ruling party, and we had so many other customs, cultures taken away in order for us to feel nothing for China, as during the 60s-70s, China was communists, and we're non-communists.
But all these posts by so many of us proves something, that after all of that "Speak Mandarin Campagin", "Speak English Campaign", we're still fundementally Chinese at heart.
So leave the Taiwan Politics to still chair-throwing and pie-slinging, and leave the China Politics to their threats to curb their insecurity. We're still Chinese at heart.
However, beneath all this. There is but one clear winner. As Chinese throw one another at each throat, who stands to gain? -
To Qkool,Originally posted by Qkool:To Roquet,
there are lot of thing i want to say..but when i know China have sold missile and tranfer missiles tech to malaysia..i dont wish to discuss over any topic with any china man..
dont forget who chase out the chinese before singapore independent.
who help the chinese more than China did when Indonesia killing chinese not long ago.
so long to any hope to become any truth friend to chinaman or PRC .
maybe to you is fair... but thank for china let us face the same threat as taiwanese.
I have throught singaporeans do better in seeking truth from facts than Taiwanese. But now, you and another guy did not so good this time. Please see
http://www.zaobao.com/gj/yx504_210704.html
The missiles are short range surface-to-air missiles. what's the meaning of the missiles? This is a knid of defensive weapon, which can only attack air targets within 5 miles. I think if there is no hostile fighters flying into Malaysia, then the missile is just like a garnish. It is funny to treat a shield as threat.
China never forgets those who have ever helped us, we always try our best to return even with double. Just as we never forget it is the singaporean who offered us an ambulance to finght with japanese in 1940s, and lots of aid from many countries during the big flood in1998.
If you review the relationship between singapore and china before and after
establishing diplomatic relation, you will see, no other country can have the same convenience as singapore's leader to visit China before establishing diplomatic relation. After that day, no other country can have the same convenience as singapore's leader to visit Taiwan. (See http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl501_240704.html, http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl504_210704.html). Certainly, it is not strange to singapore, but very strange to any other country. This is only because we treat Singapore as a trustable friend, and Singapore did push all things to good side in the past. But now, see, does your DPM visit bring any positive influence to the local relationship?
Now, it still is a very tough time for China and chinese. We are so poor during the past 100 years, so as to be discriminated even including some overseas chinese. As your said: chinaman.
Whatever you are a chinese or not, since you expressed your stupid arrogance and the ignorance in some basic knowledge, you are not worth for us to make a friend! You can stay "cool" aside. -
Serious discussion is appreciate. I am very sorry to bring your memory back to SARS crisis. I do believe all what you quoted. However, I also do believe the behaviours recorded in our files which are "missing" in yours, just like "I never heard" and some things in the Asean leaders meeting. So, I am sorry for that. We talked too much about our PMs, let we just look at other side. Of course, if you want to know more about the PMs, you can do by yourself.Originally posted by stupidissmart:My comments on your report is given above. Please ponder on it...
As to Taiwan, maybe you can see my post to Qkool. China has never attacked the relationship between Singapore and Taiwan, but, this is subjected to the agreement when we established diplomatic relation. Now, the fact, Chen Shui Bian is very happy with your DPM visit, so that Chen treated DPM Lee as the highest level official visitor. "private visit" becomes a word only in speaking. So, if there are somthing out of control, whose fault?
You can see http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl504_210704.html
I am quite accustomed to those like "I can only see china ....".
Now Singaporeans have free entrance permit to China for fiften days, do chinese obtain the same right from Singapore?
btw, so tired... -
what a military Noob..Originally posted by Roquet:To Qkool,
I have throught singaporeans do better in seeking truth from facts than Taiwanese. But now, you and another guy did not so good this time. Please see
http://www.zaobao.com/gj/yx504_210704.html
The missiles are short range surface-to-air missiles. what's the meaning of the missiles? This is a knid of defensive weapon, which can only attack air targets within 5 miles. I think if there is no hostile fighters flying into Malaysia, then the missile is just like a garnish. It is funny to treat a shield as threat.
dont even know ur own weapon
http://bbs.china.com/military/html/board_57_post/604811/2454638.html
and if you free, read this..
http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl501_220704.html -
Things seems to be getting brighter now. About the other forumers who had are more "patriotic", just treat it as part and parcel of things in a forum.
Serious discussion is appreciate. I am very sorry to bring your memory back to SARS crisis. I do believe all what you quoted. However, I also do believe the behaviours recorded in our files which are "missing" in yours, just like "I never heard" and some things in the Asean leaders meeting. So, I am sorry for that. We talked too much about our PMs, let we just look at other side. Of course, if you want to know more about the PMs, you can do by yourself.
Frankly I realise tat media is censored by the gov.. it seems to be happeneing even in US itself during Iraq war too.Now, the fact, Chen Shui Bian is very happy with your DPM visit, so that Chen treated DPM Lee as the highest level official visitor. "private visit" becomes a word only in speaking. So, if there are somthing out of control, whose fault?
Looking from another light, we r victims of circumstances ourselves. As i said before, it is meant to be low-keyed. Even in our newspaper and news we do not know tat our DPM has travel to taiwan. Only when it has blown big in taiwan then do we know about it...Now Singaporeans have free entrance permit to China for fiften days, do chinese obtain the same right from Singapore?
I believe tat singapore is one of the easiest and cheapest visa to obtain for chinese or for most of the world. I had a China chinese friend who had much much trouble trying to obtain visa for a business trip to japan or germany. For a visa to japan, they demand a guarantor from a japanese resident residing in japan. For a visa to Indonesia it costs $70 US too. -
haiz...sian wor KS-1 missile system how it works??
it seems like a clone of stinger..
Anyway , Regarding the TW issue.. , no comments lol..
just hope singapore and china can patch up
and i hope china in turn, will sabotage the missiles with duds -
Originally posted by creamtart:
[b]
Fans of the family argue that this concentration of power stems simply from its members' remarkable talent, not their connections. They claim the younger Mr Lee's rapid ascent through the ranks of the army to become a brigadier-general by the age of 32 rested purely on merit, as did his promotion to the post of deputy prime minister after only six years in politics.
The prime-minister-to-be certainly projects great intelligence and determination. He has survived a bout of cancer and stoically endured the death of his first wife. While in the army, he directed the dramatic rescue of passengers stranded in a disabled cable car. As finance minister, he has presided over a much-needed and much-delayed liberalisation of the financial sector. His father says that he would already be prime minister were it not for misplaced concerns about nepotism.
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WELL... *BIG and STUPID and UNCIVILIZED china* is not supposed to be a conclusion for Chinese.
I don't know where u get this, but i could probably imagine how old u r.
Go back to kindergarden, darl. This forum is too close to the reality.
Think about Malaysia and singapore;
then malaysia and china;
Finally compare china and singapore.
U get a clearer conclusion now, BRO? -
Uh...the Chinese were invaded by the Mongolians during the tail end of the Song dynasty. The Mongolians then took over the Chinese system of government and formed the Yuan dynasty (that was when Marco Polo came). The local Han Chinese overthrew the Mongolians and formed the Ming dynasty. The Manchurians came in at the tail end of the Ming dynasty and formed the Qing dynasty.Originally posted by baplov:But in China's tainted history, there are a lot of corruptions between the government officials. For example, In the Ming Dynasty, China is invaded by the mongolians and was replaced by the Qing Dynasty. This is because that the officials are corrupted and blinded by power. -
Haha i only hate the time when chinese kana bullyOriginally posted by Beijingduck:WELL... *BIG and STUPID and UNCIVILIZED china* is not supposed to be a conclusion for Chinese.
I don't know where u get this, but i could probably imagine how old u r.
Go back to kindergarden, darl. This forum is too close to the reality.
Think about Malaysia and singapore;
then malaysia and china;
Finally compare china and singapore.
U get a clearer conclusion now, BRO?
by JAPANESE, BRITISH, GERMANS , ITALY AND LOST ALOT OF AREA
LOST HONG KONG AND MACAU
due to the weakness of the emperor!
China's population at that time so huge
and officials all smoking opium
and some racism occur in own country! -
The past is irrelevant when compared to the present and future. Currently china is playing an important rule by driving economic growth around asia. It is one of the most influential countries in the world along with the US, Japan and germany. Like my lecturer said if the Chinese economy sweats, asia will kanna heatstroke.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Haha i only hate the time when chinese kana bully
by JAPANESE, BRITISH, GERMANS , ITALY AND LOST ALOT OF AREA
LOST HONG KONG AND MACAU
due to the weakness of the emperor!
China's population at that time so huge
and officials all smoking opium
and some racism occur in own country! -
just a silly question. what is the meaning of "kana"? mind giving me an answer?
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In this case it means to be infected with an illness.Originally posted by j28w32:just a silly question. what is the meaning of "kana"? mind giving me an answer? -
I am a citizen of PRC. This topic interests me. In China nowadays, ADSL, broadband and BBS are part of people's life, and we spend a lot of time lingering in our favorite forums. Yes Chinese government controls the access to foreign media including websites such as CNN and forbides private installing of satellite TV equipment. You can watch CNN news only in three-star hotel or above. But you know anybody with some experience of internet know how to use proxies.
People in mainland China only know general information about Singapore. To many, she is a city state with an area less than Hong Kong, and keeps a busthling economy. Singapore investment in China is not big and noisy enough to raise our attention. Before Li HianLong's visit of Taiwan, many people thinks Singapore government is pro-PRC instead of pro-Taiwan. Some liberalists in our forums attacks Singapore as a dictatorship that appeases the Chinese government. Now I read some posts about Singapore, accusing her two-face agitating in ASEAN over Na Shan Islands (or the Spratly islands), her yearly exercise with 4 nations against "submarines from northern socialist big nation", her eagerness to drag US military force based in her port, the ex-PM Mr. Wu's call for abandoning mainland China when the Chinese government was fighting against SARS, the unspoken support of Taiwan independence (?), against her weird arrogance over mainland Chinese developed from decades of white man's colonist rule.
Unfortunately, after reading the posts here, I found some Singaporean does inclines to Taiwan independence. I understand in international relations, interests and economic/military power talk. I understand the small state of Singapore has interests in the careful balance caculation between mainland China, US, Malaysia and Taiwan.
To Chinese government and many Chinese like me, Taiwan is a spike in China's ecological circle of national security. Its independence and hostile existence blocks China's outlet to ocean and threats China's energy import line. The pity of Taiwan separatists is being two close to mainland. If Singapore is that close to mainland China, I cannot imagine how can you achieve independence.
I have said all I want to say. As individual, Chinese are multitude of grey profiles, but as a nation it has mighty demand and force. China is changing. I hope it will become democratic politically and respect rule of law. However, that does not mean a democratic China will tolerate the independence of Taiwan. When you bet US and Chinese market, I understand. When bet Taiwan independence... -
To Chinese government and many Chinese like me, Taiwan is a spike in China's ecological circle of national security. Its independence and hostile existence blocks China's outlet to ocean and threats China's energy import line. The pity of Taiwan separatists is being two close to mainland. If Singapore is that close to mainland China, I cannot imagine how can you achieve independence.
I don't know man... vietnam is also close to china if I am not wrong.. so does north korea and lot of other countries. Even Nepal is seperated from china by the himalayas. If just because a country is close to china gives justification for war, then slowly china can swallow up the whole world. They can attck taiwan, vietnam, korea, nepal, russia and after tat they can attack hawaii, laos, middle east, europe and so on and so forth since the newly acquired country adds to the perimeter of china.
If one justify the reason for war just because conquring it will make its own country richer or better, than we r really going back to the 17 century where there r such a post called minister of war and people launch war so they can get some benefits from it. Japanese is right to attack China u know, they want to get its resources and its path toward the mainland. When the 8 nations united to fight china, they r right too as they get to profit from it and force china to open out its port. In tat case maybe US is right when it fight Iraq so tat they can get to control its oil. Heck, maybe malaysia is right to attack singpore in future as they can utilise our island for a port. Wat happend to international law and order, justice and freedom ?
BTW the official stand from our politicians maintain the one china policy. The views of the people here remains much individual views. -
Talking about bad policies or unfriendiness, china doesn't really lose to anyone... Shrek 2 is banned, tiananmen incident, falungong, poisonous baby powder etc... every country has its ugly side, and singapore is not necessary the ugliest...
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I agree with comacoma that Taiwan is indeed a thorn in China's flesh. Though there is no war now, technically they are still at civil war, probably similar to the situation in North and South Korea. Being in a civil war, unless ROC is conquered, there is little that the PRC can do to try to curb its influence.
Nobody wants a war. If there is a war, Singapore should stay neutral, and be like the Swiss during the two world wars, since both ROC and PRC are friends to Singapore. Singapore must not side with either side, and also should not grant the US usage of Changi base to help the Taiwanese.
Consider this: the disruptions in exchanges between PRC and Singapore are really insignificant. They will resume with time. These "threats" do not do permanent damage.
Ours is really unlike US-Sino ties. China has so much more to be angry with the US, especially with the plan to sell advanced weapons to Taiwan, and the strong influence of the Taiwan lobby in Washington. Those actions hurt China's "core interests" much much much more, more than LHL's visit to Taiwan. It is indeed worrying that from what LHL said, the Taiwanese do believe that should war break out, the US will come into the picture. LHL's assessment of the "taiwan problem" is indeed bleak.
Furthermore, Singapore has a Chinese majority in its population, with its top leader of Chinese descent. In fact, we are the only country to have a PM who has Chinese roots. Naturally the PM, being Chinese by race, must understand chinese culture and values, including the concepts of giving face, maintaining guan xi, keeping bad news within the family (remember the SARS episode) and all the rest of the social norms. Which is why there is now an emphasis of trying to groom bicultural elites? China's actions will affect Singapore, we are too small to be unswayed by it. -
shrek 2 was banned?? why?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Talking about bad policies or unfriendiness, china doesn't really lose to anyone... Shrek 2 is banned, tiananmen incident, falungong, poisonous baby powder etc... every country has its ugly side, and singapore is not necessary the ugliest...
and btw i don't think the baby powder was poisonous, it just doesn't have enough nutrients, hence the babies dying
though that was pretty bad too -
Well, congratulations on finding your way to our humble forums.I agree with you that China is changing and it should respect the rule of law.But there's one thing I fail to understand, and that is why you guys consider Taiwan such a threat?From what I can see, Taiwan sees you as a threat and vice-versa.Our relations with Taiwan go back a long way, after all , they did help us when we needed help in securing our own survival.As a Chinese, you would be able to appreciate what it means by giving thanks to those who have helped you and honoring them.What we have done is to maintain a balance of relations and ties.While realising that China is recognised by the UN as of this moment, we accord your government the respect it needs.We will equally respect Taiwan as an independant economic entity and remember her for the assistance rendered to us.China never lifted a finger to help us when we were in need, therefore we brook no more towards China than basic international courtesy, which is based on the principle of mutual interest.Our sovereignty and reputation will inevitably take precedence over your "unfinished business" with Taiwan, since you do not consider Taiwan to be a political entity by itself.We nay be small and insignificant to your eyes but since your government chose to portray us like some big , bad villain threatening to steal from you, I must say that we have already been quite accomodating already.Originally posted by comacoma:I am a citizen of PRC. This topic interests me. In China nowadays, ADSL, broadband and BBS are part of people's life, and we spend a lot of time lingering in our favorite forums. Yes Chinese government controls the access to foreign media including websites such as CNN and forbides private installing of satellite TV equipment. You can watch CNN news only in three-star hotel or above. But you know anybody with some experience of internet know how to use proxies.
People in mainland China only know general information about Singapore. To many, she is a city state with an area less than Hong Kong, and keeps a busthling economy. Singapore investment in China is not big and noisy enough to raise our attention. Before Li HianLong's visit of Taiwan, many people thinks Singapore government is pro-PRC instead of pro-Taiwan. Some liberalists in our forums attacks Singapore as a dictatorship that appeases the Chinese government. Now I read some posts about Singapore, accusing her two-face agitating in ASEAN over Na Shan Islands (or the Spratly islands), her yearly exercise with 4 nations against "submarines from northern socialist big nation", her eagerness to drag US military force based in her port, the ex-PM Mr. Wu's call for abandoning mainland China when the Chinese government was fighting against SARS, the unspoken support of Taiwan independence (?), against her weird arrogance over mainland Chinese developed from decades of white man's colonist rule.
Unfortunately, after reading the posts here, I found some Singaporean does inclines to Taiwan independence. I understand in international relations, interests and economic/military power talk. I understand the small state of Singapore has interests in the careful balance caculation between mainland China, US, Malaysia and Taiwan.
To Chinese government and many Chinese like me, Taiwan is a spike in China's ecological circle of national security. Its independence and hostile existence blocks China's outlet to ocean and threats China's energy import line. The pity of Taiwan separatists is being two close to mainland. If Singapore is that close to mainland China, I cannot imagine how can you achieve independence.
I have said all I want to say. As individual, Chinese are multitude of grey profiles, but as a nation it has mighty demand and force. China is changing. I hope it will become democratic politically and respect rule of law. However, that does not mean a democratic China will tolerate the independence of Taiwan. When you bet US and Chinese market, I understand. When bet Taiwan independence...
I really hope that a democratic, peaceful and reasonable China emerges from this troubling adolescence. -
Originally posted by loudmonkey:
Thats using the presumptious argument that ethnicity must equal to similar cultural outlook.I posted something about that somewhere.Gotta dig it up yeah.
I agree with comacoma that Taiwan is indeed a thorn in China's flesh. Though there is no war now, technically they are still at civil war, probably similar to the situation in North and South Korea. Being in a civil war, unless ROC is conquered, there is little that the PRC can do to try to curb its influence.
Nobody wants a war. If there is a war, Singapore should stay neutral, and be like the Swiss during the two world wars, since both ROC and PRC are friends to Singapore. Singapore must not side with either side, and also should not grant the US usage of Changi base to help the Taiwanese.
Consider this: the disruptions in exchanges between PRC and Singapore are really insignificant. They will resume with time. These "threats" do not do permanent damage.
Ours is really unlike US-Sino ties. China has so much more to be angry with the US, especially with the plan to sell advanced weapons to Taiwan, and the strong influence of the Taiwan lobby in Washington. Those actions hurt China's "core interests" much much much more, more than LHL's visit to Taiwan. It is indeed worrying that from what LHL said, the Taiwanese do believe that should war break out, the US will come into the picture. LHL's assessment of the "taiwan problem" is indeed bleak.
[b]Furthermore, Singapore has a Chinese majority in its population, with its top leader of Chinese descent. In fact, we are the only country to have a PM who has Chinese roots. Naturally the PM, being Chinese by race, must understand chinese culture and values, including the concepts of giving face, maintaining guan xi, keeping bad news within the family (remember the SARS episode) and all the rest of the social norms. Which is why there is now an emphasis of trying to groom bicultural elites? China's actions will affect Singapore, we are too small to be unswayed by it.
[/b]
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Democracy may or may not come to China, but China should always be peaceful and reasonable. That I agree.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Well, congratulations on finding your way to our humble forums.I agree with you that China is changing and it should respect the rule of law.But there's one thing I fail to understand, and that is why you guys consider Taiwan such a threat?From what I can see, Taiwan sees you as a threat and vice-versa.Our relations with Taiwan go back a long way, after all , they did help us when we needed help in securing our own survival.As a Chinese, you would be able to appreciate what it means by giving thanks to those who have helped you and honoring them.What we have done is to maintain a balance of relations and ties.While realising that China is recognised by the UN as of this moment, we accord your government the respect it needs.We will equally respect Taiwan as an independant economic entity and remember her for the assistance rendered to us.China never lifted a finger to help us when we were in need, therefore we brook no more towards China than basic international courtesy, which is based on the principle of mutual interest.Our sovereignty and reputation will inevitably take precedence over your "unfinished business" with Taiwan, since you do not consider Taiwan to be a political entity by itself.We nay be small and insignificant to your eyes but since your government chose to portray us like some big , bad villain threatening to steal from you, I must say that we have already been quite accomodating already.
I really hope that a democratic, peaceful and reasonable China emerges from this troubling adolescence.
Taiwan I guess is "unfinished business" because if Taiwan continues to exist, there will always be the problem of 2 Chinas, which is itself an ideological THREAT to the fact that there must and should only be one China. There cannot be 2 "middle kingdoms". Independence of Taiwan is therefore unacceptable to PRC, and is a matter of principle and national pride to the government in the PRC. Not only would there be a severe loss of face by China if Taiwan becomes independent, it would mean the breakdown of the fundemental chinese identity of a common people, common values and common social norm, none of which the govt in Beijing is willing to accept. -
Yes that presumption can be false I agree, but I believe there is also merit in that presumption. Perhaps you might like to give me the link to the argument.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Thats using the presumptious argument that ethnicity must equal to similar cultural outlook.I posted something about that somewhere.Gotta dig it up yeah.
In any case, the issue of ethnicity really cannot be overlooked, since the singapore govt want close and good relations with china, and they vice versa. We have certain expectations of the Chinese, and they have certain expectations of us. Skin colour and language will still play a significant part in our dealings with China, and this, we must admit, will give chinese singaporeans a much bigger advantage over other nationalities.
My example to support this position is the attempt by the govt to inculcate bicultural elites. I believe this move is spearheaded by economic and strategic needs by Singapore into the future more than anything else. To give these people an appreciation and understanding of the cultural outlook of China is probably something that is necessary. In fact, anyone wanting to have some business done in China should necessarily know about the cultural outlook of the country. -
In my understanding, the case of TW is completely different from that of Vietnam, North Korea, Nepal, etc. TW has historically, culturally, politically, and geographically been part of China. Even it broke off from the mainland due to civil wars in 1940s, it had been acknowledged to be Chinese and part of China(as about this point, even Jiang Kashi and his son did not deny it). From this point of view, though the Jiangs were anti-communism, they were still strongly petriotic in saying that they were Chinese, TW was Chinese and TW was part of China.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I don't know man... vietnam is also close to china if I am not wrong.. so does north korea and lot of other countries. Even Nepal is seperated from china by the himalayas. If just because a country is close to china gives justification for war, then slowly china can swallow up the whole world. They can attck taiwan, vietnam, korea, nepal, russia and after tat they can attack hawaii, laos, middle east, europe and so on and so forth since the newly acquired country adds to the perimeter of china.
If one justify the reason for war just because conquring it will make its own country richer or better, than we r really going back to the 17 century where there r such a post called minister of war and people launch war so they can get some benefits from it. Japanese is right to attack China u know, they want to get its resources and its path toward the mainland. When the 8 nations united to fight china, they r right too as they get to profit from it and force china to open out its port. In tat case maybe US is right when it fight Iraq so tat they can get to control its oil. Heck, maybe malaysia is right to attack singpore in future as they can utilise our island for a port. Wat happend to international law and order, justice and freedom ?
BTW the official stand from our politicians maintain the one china policy. The views of the people here remains much individual views.
But about the current TW, Li Denghui and Chen Shuibian have defiantly deviated from the policy, and thus betrayed TW and China. What is more, in order to get TW seperated from China, they are even licking the ass of America and Japan to trade for support from the two. In this sense, Li and Chen are traitors, not only to China as a nation, but also to the Jiangs.
As a Chinese, I dont think conquering TW will make mainland China richer and better. On a contrary, I believe many Chinese dont wish to see war break out between the two sides. After all, people on both sides of the straits are Chinese, so why to bother hurting the other? Besides, China are currently in a crucial period of economic development, therefore why to sacrifice what we have gained so strenuously in the past- 20 years for a war? ----- Despite these, i can tell you if the TW traitors acturally do something to seperate TW from China, then the mainland will have to fight back. The war is about national dignity, about the interests of China to be a sovereign country, and about China's chance of future development. That is the plain fact, and I wish Singaporians will undertand it. -
So, can u understand that Mainland China's sovereignty and reputation will also inevitably take the precedence when your PM visited TW and hurt China?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Well, congratulations on finding your way to our humble forums.I agree with you that China is changing and it should respect the rule of law.But there's one thing I fail to understand, and that is why you guys consider Taiwan such a threat?From what I can see, Taiwan sees you as a threat and vice-versa.Our relations with Taiwan go back a long way, after all , they did help us when we needed help in securing our own survival.As a Chinese, you would be able to appreciate what it means by giving thanks to those who have helped you and honoring them.What we have done is to maintain a balance of relations and ties.While realising that China is recognised by the UN as of this moment, we accord your government the respect it needs.We will equally respect Taiwan as an independant economic entity and remember her for the assistance rendered to us.China never lifted a finger to help us when we were in need, therefore we brook no more towards China than basic international courtesy, which is based on the principle of mutual interest.Our sovereignty and reputation will inevitably take precedence over your "unfinished business" with Taiwan, since you do not consider Taiwan to be a political entity by itself.We nay be small and insignificant to your eyes but since your government chose to portray us like some big , bad villain threatening to steal from you, I must say that we have already been quite accomodating already.
I really hope that a democratic, peaceful and reasonable China emerges from this troubling adolescence. -
i do not know what policy you're talking about, but i do not consider Li and Chen as traitors,Originally posted by creamtart:In my understanding, the case of TW is completely different from that of Vietnam, North Korea, Nepal, etc. TW has historically, culturally, politically, and geographically been part of China. Even it broke off from the mainland due to civil wars in 1940s, it had been acknowledged to be Chinese and part of China(as about this point, even Jiang Kashi and his son did not deny it). From this point of view, though the Jiangs were anti-communism, they were still strongly petriotic in saying that they were Chinese, TW was Chinese and TW was part of China.
But about the current TW, Li Denghui and Chen Shuibian have defiantly deviated from the policy, and thus betrayed TW and China. What is more, in order to get TW seperated from China, they are even licking the ass of America and Japan to trade for support from the two. In this sense, Li and Chen are traitors, not only to China as a nation, but also to the Jiangs.
As a Chinese, I dont think conquering TW will make mainland China richer and better. On a contrary, I believe many Chinese dont wish to see war break out between the two sides. After all, people on both sides of the straits are Chinese, so why to bother hurting the other? Besides, China are currently in a crucial period of economic development, therefore why to sacrifice what we have gained so strenuously in the past- 20 years for a war? ----- Despite these, i can tell you if the TW traitors acturally do something to seperate TW from China, then the mainland will have to fight back. The war is about national dignity, about the interests of China to be a sovereign country, and about China's chance of future development. That is the plain fact, and I wish Singaporians will undertand it.
firstly they do not consider themselves as citizens of PRC
secondly they're not serving the Jiangs
thirdly (giving them the benefit of doubt)their actions seem to be pro taiwan
i find china's actions concerning taiwan silly and immature, if you're already considering war on them, why the hell would you still care about whether they're declaring independence or not, since you're going to blow them up anyway, are you saying a law set up by the taiwanese is going to stop the chinese army?
the un has already recognised the one china policy, even if its only in name, its still enough to make any moves china seeking to undertake "legal "
after all this, all thats left is to reach out and grab taiwan back , not too hard since you've already had a deadline to keep
and lastly , please stop calling us "Singaporians"
i don't know about the rest of them , but i'm annoyed by that