What So Big Deal About China
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The current Mainland China is not as ideology-centred as you think, nor is it so idealistic. The whole story about TW is fundamentally concerning nantional sovereignty and interests, just the same as Singapore must safeguard its own sovereignty and interests.Originally posted by loudmonkey:Democracy may or may not come to China, but China should always be peaceful and reasonable. That I agree.
Taiwan I guess is "unfinished business" because if Taiwan continues to exist, there will always be the problem of 2 Chinas, which is itself an ideological THREAT to the fact that there must and should only be one China. There cannot be 2 "middle kingdoms". Independence of Taiwan is therefore unacceptable to PRC, and is a matter of principle and national pride to the government in the PRC. Not only would there be a severe loss of face by China if Taiwan becomes independent, it would mean the breakdown of the fundemental chinese identity of a common people, common values and common social norm, none of which the govt in Beijing is willing to accept. -
I think just typo error lah. relek relek.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:and lastly , please stop calling us "Singaporians"
i don't know about the rest of them , but i'm annoyed by that
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Yup I agree with you.Originally posted by creamtart:The current Mainland China is not as ideology-centred as you think, nor is it so idealistic. The whole story about TW is fundamentally concerning nantional sovereignty and interests, just the same as Singapore must safeguard its own sovereignty and interests.
The views that I had written comes from a chinese online article that I read from the internet a while back (about 2 months back) . I dont have the link now. Just to let u know that I wrote what I wrote based on some readings. -
TW Case...
rofl..a case since 1949...took back Hong Kong & Macau..
but left taiwan.
Taiwan , in US point of view = Democratic country
China , in US Point of view = Threat
US , in Taiwan point of view = Protector
China , in Taiwan Point of view = Threat
Taiwan , in China Point of View = Threat
US , in China Point of view = Threat
has own "parliament"
president
healthcare
constitution
referendum soon
engages in international trade
military
Everything in taiwan is also similar in other independent countries
only thing different is official proclaimation...
I believe a compromise could be reached when China offers
taiwan some really good stuff like $$ , access to economic
something like a merger which malaysia offered SG during the 1963 times
The only reason why China need taiwan
is...access to pacific ocean ( challenge the US Navy in the future)
use taiwan economic success
lesser threat facing it
expansion of influence
get "mian zi"
You can see them protesting everyday and u know 1 thing is for sure
pple of taiwan love democracy and even in some shows...
not having freedom is like being controlled
lemme tell u..dangle some carrots and no need to restrict arm sales
or restrict foreign visitors
Its like wanting a forbidden fruit..the thing which u want more is the thing which is impossible
A Forbidden fruit taste good...but has unforseen circumstances..
Encourage democracy...
Give pple in China more freedom , less censorship
less crackdown..
Create political parties..
Use HongKong as a example
Anyway if i were the President of China now..
all i need is 5 years to get back taiwan without force =)
if they willing to follow these steps
1.Encourage elections in HongKong
2.Remove tung
3.Stop off those 500 missiles ( taiwan won't pre-empt)
4.Lesser military and censorship in HongKong
5.Stop THREATENING the radio announcers , encourage more pple to speak up
6.Stop building up a big force of might
7.Encourage taiwanese to see china as a hinterland
8.Stress about the unity once again
9.Propaganda in Taiwanese's show channels
10. Send china's artistes..zhang ziyi and hu bing all these..
it will help cuz it will show how pple there is like..
11.MOST IMPORTANTLY..THE PRESIDENT AND VP OF TAIWAN WILL WORRY
ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THEM IF IT REUNITES..
MAKE CHEN AND ANNETTE LU BACK AS THE GOVERNOR...AND GOVERNESS
12. If head of state and the taiwanese pple say ok..good luck
if they don't want , offer 50 billion USD in aids...
and send in china officials..and engage them in-depth..
become friends...MOST importantly show why taiwan+China pple bond is closer den taiwan+us bond
THEY ARE MOST WORRIED ABOUT THE DIS-INTERGRATION OF THEIR
TW ARMED FORCES, SO MUST THINK OF A PROPER SOLUTION!!
(its simply like u want back ur wife and u going to PUNCH YOUR WIFE IN ORDER TO ASK HER TO MARRY YOU BACK!!!!!) Use love to move ur wife.. -
In my understanding, the case of TW is completely different from that of Vietnam, North Korea, Nepal, etc. TW has historically, culturally, politically, and geographically been part of China.
please take note tat the previous reply is to answer comacoma or his view tat countries close to china have to be control by china. Singapore has nothing to do with china or soverignity yet he claims tat if we r close to them, then we will be atttacked or threathened.
If Singapore is that close to mainland China, I cannot imagine how can you achieve independence.Even it broke off from the mainland due to civil wars in 1940s, it had been acknowledged to be Chinese and part of China(as about this point, even Jiang Kashi and his son did not deny it). From this point of view, though the Jiangs were anti-communism, they were still strongly petriotic in saying that they were Chinese, TW was Chinese and TW was part of China.
Its true mah, Jiang used to be the head of the china, including taiwan too. He lost the civil war so he retreated to taiwan. He say he is part of china, but he probably meant himself (he is from china too mah) or he intend to attack back central china instead.But about the current TW, Li Denghui and Chen Shuibian have defiantly deviated from the policy, and thus betrayed TW and China. What is more, in order to get TW seperated from China, they are even licking the ass of America and Japan to trade for support from the two. In this sense, Li and Chen are traitors, not only to China as a nation, but also to the Jiangs.
practically speaking, taiwan has really no links with china now... taiwan is under intense pressure since they can't go to WTO, WHO not allowed to visit and other pressure tat forbid them to integrate with the world body. All this pressure will ultimately force them to declare independence, not integration.So, can u understand that Mainland China's sovereignty and reputation will also inevitably take the precedence when your PM visited TW and hurt China?
I don't know wat is central china right to have taiwan. Reputation get worse after an attack bah...
just an ending story for people who like aesop fable.
The wind and the sun cannot determine who has greater power over men, and so they decide to test it out by betting which side can make a traveller take off his poncho. The wind start first and he became to start blowing hard at the man, hoping tat it will blow the poncho away. He blow and he blow, but the man start to huddle it tighter and tighter instead. No matter how hard he blows, he cannot blow the poncho away. In the end the wind gives out and let the sun have a try. The sun instead start to shine very brightly. Son the man felt the intense heat and after some time, decide to take off the poncho as the poncho make him hotter. Thus in the end, the sun had won
Lesson learnt: Sometime diplomacy and soft tactics may work better than hard edge method -
To the United States, Taiwan is just a pawn that can be used to disrupt China. If they really want to help Taiwan, they wouldn't be selling weapons at such exorbitant prices. I know a few Taiwanese who are really pissed off with the US for shortchanging them. Here's an article about Taiwanese protesting arms sales:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200406/s1135868.htm -
you guys keep harping on a democratic China.
but u guys don't see the implication of a democratic China. if people in China now has the wish to eliminate Taiwan, what will Democracy give? People's power becomes the crux in democracy, so China will go to war.
u guys talk of democracy as if it's the most realistic type of governence in the world. but look around at most democractic country. while some of their decisions can be deemed brave, and for the people, MOST of their decisions are bull shit.
i certainly do not want to see thousands of people in China's People Congress to start punching each other, a la Taiwan. that will be a joke.
and the Chinese people shall once again be the joke of the world.
we gave the world the compass, gunpower etc.
i will hate to see Chinese jokes, alongside Nigger Jokes and Blonde Jokes. -
you guys keep harping on a democratic China.
Do u think the communist party is a better political system than democracy ? Sure, there r no people punching each other but then we do see cases such as corruption, massacre of students, withhelding of information, banning of movies and a lot of other unpopular policies. At least when democracy is around, people have the power. Otherwise only the Gov have power. For the case of china... frankly they don't seem to give a thought on the people... why banned shrek 2 or shaolin soccer or Zhang Hui mei ? U r not just harming these industries u r also depriving the people themselves... Why do they care more about attacking taiwan than develop the countryside ?
but u guys don't see the implication of a democratic China. if people in China now has the wish to eliminate Taiwan, what will Democracy give? People's power becomes the crux in democracy, so China will go to war.
u guys talk of democracy as if it's the most realistic type of governence in the world. but look around at most democractic country. while some of their decisions can be deemed brave, and for the people, MOST of their decisions are bull &&!!.
i certainly do not want to see thousands of people in China's People Congress to start punching each other, a la Taiwan. that will be a joke.
and the Chinese people shall once again be the joke of the world.
we gave the world the compass, gunpower etc.
i will hate to see Chinese jokes, alongside Nigger Jokes and Blonde Jokes.
Chinese give the world a compass but they never travel outside much , at least travel like the british to america or establish trade settlement. Chinese invent firepowder but they never made them into guns. In the end it just help other to become stronger than himself. In the end, it doesn't even matter
Though I hate to see chinese jokes etc but actually I love blonde, indian or nigger joke... I am not really sure about u but there r ton of people who love these racists joke... Just don't take jokes too seriously u know...
Maybe it is time to reflect again... though I think they r too arrogant for their own good, at least US appear to share more than... china... if given a choice of who to become superpower in tis world, I guess an arrogant person is better than a dangerous one tat do extreme actions over the slightest thing... -
i don't see people punching each other in indonesia ,malaysia and singapore's parlimentsOriginally posted by runningismylife:you guys keep harping on a democratic China.
but u guys don't see the implication of a democratic China. if people in China now has the wish to eliminate Taiwan, what will Democracy give? People's power becomes the crux in democracy, so China will go to war.
u guys talk of democracy as if it's the most realistic type of governence in the world. but look around at most democractic country. while some of their decisions can be deemed brave, and for the people, MOST of their decisions are bull shit.
i certainly do not want to see thousands of people in China's People Congress to start punching each other, a la Taiwan. that will be a joke.
and the Chinese people shall once again be the joke of the world.
we gave the world the compass, gunpower etc.
i will hate to see Chinese jokes, alongside Nigger Jokes and Blonde Jokes.
taiwanese politics scene is a joke, not their democracy
please respect that -
Even though china may not be a democracy but unlike other countries, they are not terrorising others in the name of fighting terrorism and democracy. No country is perfect. Even in the USA, students were shot dead for protesting against the Vietnam War back in the 60s, 70s. And we are talking about the USA, the world's best democracy.
Frankly I don't think we s'poreans have any right to label any other countries undemocratic. Are we any better? This is a country where the government has the right to ban us from eating what we want(chewing gum) and where gathering of 5 or more people is considered illegal assembly. What nonsense! -
Even though china may not be a democracy but unlike other countries, they are not terrorising others in the name of fighting terrorism and democracy. No country is perfect. Even in the USA, students were shot dead for protesting against the Vietnam War back in the 60s, 70s. And we are talking about the USA, the world's best democracy.
Frankly I don't think we s'poreans have any right to label any other countries undemocratic. Are we any better? This is a country where the government has the right to ban us from eating what we want(chewing gum) and where gathering of 5 or more people is considered illegal assembly. What nonsense! -
So what if we live in undemocratic country?I do not think that should certainly restrict us from talking about other nations' political systems.To say that we do not have brains here just because the environment we live in is quite sterile, is simply hogwash.Call me interventionist if you like, but the plain fact for all to see is that China for one hates others, especially states smaller in clout, to pass comments about them.Sensitivity and past inferiority complex is the reason behind this.
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ever seen a dog chasing its own tail.