My views on Singapore's position
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China can in 30 years:
1. Feed 25% of the world's population.
2. Develop the coastal cities to 2nd world standard
Currently, their people can at least enjoy more political freedom than Singaporeans.(Can stage rallies, protests, can criticise their leaders...etc)
What right have we to call them arrogant and oppressive?
China has always enjoyed good relationship with Singapore, the problem now lies in that of economical profits but not hatred. I believe the problem should solve it self rather quick and hope our new Prime Minister would clean up his own behind. If not, some poor soul would have to clean it up for him.
If China starts to develop its rivers and forgo the need to use the Malacca Straits, what would happen to Singapore? What would we become?
We have to give respect to America, and still give face to China. We cannot offend the Jews, nor can we ignore the Muslims. Who is capable of really dealing with all of these problems ? Lee? -
What we have always done in the past is try to understand others, now what we need is for others to understand our position.
We need more wisdom and courage, as well as the modesty
What we need is something made in Singapore, to let them know we exist. -
What rivers?The last time I heard, China is landlocked towards the Indian Ocean.Originally posted by Stevenson101:China can in 30 years:
1. Feed 25% of the world's population.
2. Develop the coastal cities to 2nd world standard
Currently, their people can at least enjoy more political freedom than Singaporeans.(Can stage rallies, protests, can criticise their leaders...etc)
What right have we to call them arrogant and oppressive?
China has always enjoyed good relationship with Singapore, the problem now lies in that of economical profits but not hatred. I believe the problem should solve it self rather quick and hope our new Prime Minister would clean up his own behind. If not, some poor soul would have to clean it up for him.
If China starts to develop its rivers and forgo the need to use the Malacca Straits, what would happen to Singapore? What would we become?
We have to give respect to America, and still give face to China. We cannot offend the Jews, nor can we ignore the Muslims. Who is capable of really dealing with all of these problems ? Lee?
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i agree some of the point. however, we are too small for big player to understand our position. about china policy, it a matter who need who more. of course china need our technology know how and we need their market for both benefits. but china can survive without our investment and recover by another country investment. but we will lose more if we lose china market.
american case is even more lopsided. basically we depend on them for market and investment. for american they are basically our customer and supplier, what position can we have against them for unfair foreign policy? we are basically at their mercy for relocation. imagine if HP pull out of singapore operation and shifted to low cost production country with high skill labout such as Thailand. how many singapore company will be affected.
if we can he humble towards america, why not towards china? afterall we are yellow skin, we shouldnt discriminate against our own color ppl.
not asking for beg towards china, just fair treatment we show to american and china. -
I think he is referring to the "Kra Canal" project. A canal that cuts through the Thai isthmus and create a short cut allowing ships to by-pass the Malacca Straits. If it were ever to be built, days of Singapore as a shipping hub would be over.Originally posted by LazerLordz:What rivers?The last time I heard, China is landlocked towards the Indian Ocean. -
Hi, I am a newcomer here, I am a Chinese mainlander.Originally posted by Stevenson101:China can in 30 years:
1. Feed 25% of the world's population.
2. Develop the coastal cities to 2nd world standard
Currently, their people can at least enjoy more political freedom than Singaporeans.(Can stage rallies, protests, can criticise their leaders...etc)
What right have we to call them arrogant and oppressive?
China has always enjoyed good relationship with Singapore, the problem now lies in that of economical profits but not hatred. I believe the problem should solve it self rather quick and hope our new Prime Minister would clean up his own behind. If not, some poor soul would have to clean it up for him.
If China starts to develop its rivers and forgo the need to use the Malacca Straits, what would happen to Singapore? What would we become?
We have to give respect to America, and still give face to China. We cannot offend the Jews, nor can we ignore the Muslims. Who is capable of really dealing with all of these problems ? Lee?
Firstly, it is good to see that Singapore also has such nice people! Second, I support a healthy and friendly relationship between Sinagpore and China.
Under the general situation, when most of the world (especially when the US governed by neocons) have "anti-China" trends. Singapore is unavoidable to be neutural! It is too small to aviod influence from big countries. Currently, Singapore's security and prosperity largely depends on the US. As the US can use many means (such as military, economical, political...etc) to influences Singapore, if it feels the needs to do so.
In the case of your vice-premier's visit to Taiwan, my explanation is that it is a show to Americans, to let the the US's neocon believe that though Singapore is Chinese majority country, it will stand on the US's side if any conflicts happen between the Mainland China and the US.
IMO, this is a wise option, becoz in case the war break out in 2006-2008 becoz of taiwan's declare of independent (actual modification of their constitution), most of people in China don't want to see Singapore also being embroiled. After all, we have same ancestors, just like the UK and the US, and China also learned many things from past Sinagpore's success.
As far as I know, most of my friends have a friendly view on Singapore. And
we admire that as a Chinese majority country, Singapore can have such big economic success. I think the current mistrusts are just temporary, we deserve a much better relationship when China becomes stronger and stronger! -
Our new challenges:-
(1) Open Up more intellectual spaces.
(2) De-regulate all archaic laws, regulations and unworkable past policies.
(3) Motivate the whole populations to work together as in-house talents.
(4) Get all employees to participate in ideas and application of knowledge.
(5) Be humble to serve the people as elected representatives and servants not as masters. (China's PM Wen Jia Pau had said: He is people's servant)
(6) Be less self-aggrandizing and self-centred. Not talent or leadership but mass participation will save Singapore from extinction. -
I agree with that totally.We are in this state because we have an establishment that is fearful of change and prefers to remain in the comfort zone that change becomes absolutely vital.Forecasting trends should be made a top priority.And mass participation instead of a pool of talent found in one place alone will turn around our current malaise and inertia.
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Originally posted by sbs1zc:Hi, I am a newcomer here, I am a Chinese mainlander.
Firstly, it is good to see that Singapore also has such nice people! Second, I support a healthy and friendly relationship between Sinagpore and China.
Under the general situation, when most of the world (especially when the US governed by neocons) have "anti-China" trends. Singapore is unavoidable to be neutural! It is too small to aviod influence from big countries. Currently, Singapore's security and prosperity largely depends on the US. As the US can use many means (such as military, economical, political...etc) to influences Singapore, if it feels the needs to do so.
In the case of your vice-premier's visit to Taiwan, my explanation is that it is a show to Americans, to let the the US's neocon believe that though Singapore is Chinese majority country, it will stand on the US's side if any conflicts happen between the Mainland China and the US.
IMO, this is a wise option, becoz in case the war break out in 2006-2008 becoz of taiwan's declare of independent (actual modification of their constitution), most of people in China don't want to see Singapore also being embroiled. After all, we have same ancestors, just like the UK and the US, and China also learned many things from past Sinagpore's success.
As far as I know, most of my friends have a friendly view on Singapore. And
we admire that as a Chinese majority country, Singapore can have such big economic success. I think the current mistrusts are just temporary, we deserve a much better relationship when China becomes stronger and stronger!
First of all, thank you for identifying as a Chinese mainlander, glad to see some positive response here. Every country have nice and not so nice people. I myself have some good friends and colleagues from China. They are the nice people I know.
As our Premier to be, he has to put the country's interest, be it political or economical, first priority. He has nothing to gain if he gain the support of Taiwan and lost his status and support of his own country and the region leaders. I could just prayed that the politics leaders of China to put themselves in the shoes of Singpore leaders being a country surrounded by Muslim states, big economic powers (China, US, Japan). Mr. Lee and his predecessors (Mr. Goh & Snr. Mr. Lee) has tried very much effort to maintain the country's political peace (being neutral yet firm on certain national & internatonal issues).
I hold no grudges with Chinese nationals here in Singapore, but iwth so much negative views on Xinghuanet. I hope that they will look at the situation at a much higher view than just making negative comments. -
Well said, sbs1zc.
Singapore perhaps needs to harken back to the model upon which it first built itself -- a non-aligned SE Asian model of Switzerland...neutral, going about its business quietly, and dealing equally with everyone while being armed sufficiently to detere any hostility.
It seems in the last 10 years or more that it has moved away from that stance and decided to play an active leadership role in the region wherever it believes it can influence and guide for its own agenda...that is making it enemies, a target, a magnet for criticism, and a pawn to be used any side when it suits them to do so.
I don't see any Swiss soldiers in Iraq doing reconstruction work, nor do you see them negotiating peace agreements between combatants...yet they manage a strong and vibrant economy, and no one considers them a threat. -
A steady hand to chart us across a turbulent sea.
A unequivocal foreign policy after Soviet Union demise is a good stead.
A play-it-cool swiss diplomacy will make us quietly efficient and strong.
There is no need to lead from the front.
Leading from the middle or the rear is just as fine.
We will have friends around us if we consider their aspirations and needs.
Let us not be brash but patient and supple in coping with change.
Big brothers might even respect us more. -
yeah, forging close international ties is vital. But it seems now that prob has worsened. I just cant fathom why china reacts so strongly over a small visit... It somehow give me the perception that singapore has to listen to them and oblige to their standing. This is way too unreasonable. we must have our own standing and rights. To visit or not to, is our own decision.Originally posted by Stevenson101:China can in 30 years:
1. Feed 25% of the world's population.
2. Develop the coastal cities to 2nd world standard
Currently, their people can at least enjoy more political freedom than Singaporeans.(Can stage rallies, protests, can criticise their leaders...etc)
What right have we to call them arrogant and oppressive?
China has always enjoyed good relationship with Singapore, the problem now lies in that of economical profits but not hatred. I believe the problem should solve it self rather quick and hope our new Prime Minister would clean up his own behind. If not, some poor soul would have to clean it up for him.
If China starts to develop its rivers and forgo the need to use the Malacca Straits, what would happen to Singapore? What would we become?
We have to give respect to America, and still give face to China. We cannot offend the Jews, nor can we ignore the Muslims. Who is capable of really dealing with all of these problems ? Lee? -
finally a good post..cheersOriginally posted by sbs1zc:Hi, I am a newcomer here, I am a Chinese mainlander.
Firstly, it is good to see that Singapore also has such nice people! Second, I support a healthy and friendly relationship between Sinagpore and China.
Under the general situation, when most of the world (especially when the US governed by neocons) have "anti-China" trends. Singapore is unavoidable to be neutural! It is too small to aviod influence from big countries. Currently, Singapore's security and prosperity largely depends on the US. As the US can use many means (such as military, economical, political...etc) to influences Singapore, if it feels the needs to do so.
In the case of your vice-premier's visit to Taiwan, my explanation is that it is a show to Americans, to let the the US's neocon believe that though Singapore is Chinese majority country, it will stand on the US's side if any conflicts happen between the Mainland China and the US.
IMO, this is a wise option, becoz in case the war break out in 2006-2008 becoz of taiwan's declare of independent (actual modification of their constitution), most of people in China don't want to see Singapore also being embroiled. After all, we have same ancestors, just like the UK and the US, and China also learned many things from past Sinagpore's success.
As far as I know, most of my friends have a friendly view on Singapore. And
we admire that as a Chinese majority country, Singapore can have such big economic success. I think the current mistrusts are just temporary, we deserve a much better relationship when China becomes stronger and stronger! -
afaha gqwmtgahbslaym qeytqey mgtOriginally posted by SibeiSuayKia:finally a good post..cheers -
%gbghjgsfjfajsfjaioashjdoaosf% *Cough*Originally posted by the.raven:afaha gqwmtgahbslaym qeytqey mgt
Could u plz use english, or at least provide a brief explanation? -
I think for developing their rivers, the most important raw material among all their commodities is their oil. Having said that they will never rely 100% on a pipeline in thailand, reasoning is simple, thailand is quite big fan of the americans, the americans have a huge secret airbase somewhere in thailand and very often they conduct huge military exercises together. In a war between China and Taiwan would oil in thailand's pipeline still contniue to flow towards china?Originally posted by Stevenson101:China can in 30 years:
China has always enjoyed good relationship with Singapore, the problem now lies in that of economical profits but not hatred. I believe the problem should solve it self rather quick and hope our new Prime Minister would clean up his own behind. If not, some poor soul would have to clean it up for him.
If China starts to develop its rivers and forgo the need to use the Malacca Straits, what would happen to Singapore? What would we become?
We have to give respect to America, and still give face to China. We cannot offend the Jews, nor can we ignore the Muslims. Who is capable of really dealing with all of these problems ? Lee?
The pipeline in myanmmar is more feasible as myanmmar is currently mostly embargoed by most of the western world including americans hence no western influence there, but still very friendly towards china. This could give myanmmar a new lease of life to it's economy in supporting their huge standing army, geographically their lands are also very close to China which would be easy to reinforce overland in the event of any conflict which threatens the pipeline. They also have an indifferent posture towards thailand(fans of americans) which makes them excellent candidates for guarding the pipeline.
This would in a little way benefit some of us. We could offer our expertise in say a joint venture to build and operate a refinery with the burmese government, help them develop some primary industries in oil and port management which complement our own higher industries?
Survival wise if you think abt it, if thailand builds a refinery all the industries related to it will move there because of easier access to oil, cheap labor, low cost and what not, malaysia not wanting to lose out will they jump the gun and build their own pipeline across their mainland? If everybody does that we will lose out big time! This way at least we still able to manage something from as far away as myanmmar. Maybe our citizens being more experienced, educated and already welcome there could enjoy a rich expatriate life?
But all this is still in on the drawing board. In the near future our waterway is still very much important to china current health and wealth much more so in a war with taiwan. Could be why they suddenly adopting this current attitude.
Maybe as a small gesture of neighbourliness and some "concrete measures" we could offer some limited access of our naval resupply facilities to them? -
How?? by doing silly sth like paying "unofficial visit" to Taiwan? Facing up the reality that what kind strength singapore has is always very hard.Originally posted by Stevenson101:What we have always done in the past is try to understand others, now what we need is for others to understand our position.
We need more wisdom and courage, as well as the modesty
What we need is something made in Singapore, to let them know we exist. -
i don't find the trip silly at all, only a mainland chinese would think this way, naturally , due to the tw issueOriginally posted by j28w32:How?? by doing silly sth like paying "unofficial visit" to Taiwan? Facing up the reality that what kind strength singapore has is always very hard.
but for sg, we have troops there, we have businesses there and who knows what else we have there,and we're not the only ones who have things in tw
and some crappy little guys wants to wack tw and they think its only between them and tw
maybe they're the ones who should wake up their own ideas and stop being so egoistic -
China needed Singapore as a startup model.
By now, they should have copied sufficiently from us. China has arrived - if their yearly near double digit growth is anything to judge by.
If that is the case - does China still look up on Singapore today, like they did 20 years ago?
I dont think they do.
And dont forget this chapter of our history- our Dear Leader spent alot of his energy purging, arresting and banishing his former mates and others who were leaning towards communism. In fact he still disallows a few of these aging banished communists from returning to die in Singapore.
Do you think China can easily forgive his persecution of communists?
Why this strong urge to trade with China, a communist country, when our dear leader had banished every communist in the country? -
hmmm ... actually if you read LKY's memoirs he actually went back and forth between singapore and china a few times to talk to Mao Tse Tung abt this.Originally posted by miong:China needed Singapore as a startup model.
By now, they should have copied sufficiently from us. China has arrived - if their yearly near double digit growth is anything to judge by.
If that is the case - does China still look up on Singapore today, like they did 20 years ago?
I dont think they do.
And dont forget this chapter of our history- our Dear Leader spent alot of his energy purging, arresting and banishing his former mates and others who were leaning towards communism. In fact he still disallows a few of these aging banished communists from returning to die in Singapore.
Do you think China can easily forgive his persecution of communists?
Why this strong urge to trade with China, a communist country, when our dear leader had banished every communist in the country?
Finally the Mao gave the ok to allow LKY to deal with the communist in singapore. -
please learn from your fellow china mates here..Originally posted by j28w32:How?? by doing silly sth like paying "unofficial visit" to Taiwan? Facing up the reality that what kind strength singapore has is always very hard.
some being such a pain in ass here
anyway + 1 -
Please do not anyhow change history. I am 99.99% sure that is not true. LKY only talked to the (secret) highest representative of Communist Malaysia-Singapore.Originally posted by arburthen?:hmmm ... actually if you read LKY's memoirs he actually went back and forth between singapore and china a few times to talk to Mao Tse Tung abt this.
Finally the Mao gave the ok to allow LKY to deal with the communist in singapore.
And LKY did not deal with communist. He let others do the dirty work before he took the PM post in 1959 when communist party is basically dealt with. Go read the book again. -
Further, the communist people were actually PART of PAP. They tried to control PAP and failed (Narrowly). Left PAP to form a party of their own. Fan the people to go on riot and got detained using the internal security act.Originally posted by arburthen?:hmmm ... actually if you read LKY's memoirs he actually went back and forth between singapore and china a few times to talk to Mao Tse Tung abt this.
Finally the Mao gave the ok to allow LKY to deal with the communist in singapore.
You need to read more. -
Whatever BG did, he did it for the good of everyone, including China.
Maybe through BG's actions, Chen Shui-bian will see that he is playing with fire and that he should back down from the road to war. But then the Taiwanese are thick skulled Min people who will not submit to China.
Remember that 2000 years ago, Emperor Han Wen-Ti had to deport the Fukien Min population to Central China when they refused Chinese overloadship. Up till today, the Hokkien dialect is stll refered to as the MIN Language.( Min-yue)
It's the same today
BG tries to change the course of Chinese/Min history. I doubt if he can do it, however good hid intentions -
hUh !??!