Poverty and Discontent On the Rise In Singapore?
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Nowadays I am seeing more and more elderly people working as cleaners in hawker centers. When I walk along the east coast beach I see homeless people sleeping at the seaside. I live near Bedok Interchange and whenever I come back home late at night I notice there are quite a few unkempt men make bed with cardboard paper. I have also noticed that there is an increase in the number of families who can't afford to pay their utility bills and therefore have to live in darkness.
Whenever I go to coffeeshops, I hear people complaining about the PAP and how they are kanna exploited at work all the time.
What do u guys think? -
Originally posted by Blueray:Nowadays I am seeing more and more elderly people working as cleaners in hawker centers. When I walk along the east coast beach I see homeless people sleeping at the seaside. I live near Bedok Interchange and whenever I come back home late at night I notice there are quite a few unkempt men make bed with cardboard paper. I have also noticed that there is an increase in the number of families who can't afford to pay their utility bills and therefore have to live in darkness.
Whenever I go to coffeeshops, I hear people complaining about the PAP and how they are kanna exploited at work all the time.
What do u guys think?
some days back over heard some old man say:
"aiya si gin na cae wee liao, si mi lan jiao ge kee gai... ... ..." ~~ "hazi the brat is taking over, all price are going up... ... ..."
ya some of the things have or going up now
i think the next will be the cark park, season parking, and parking coupon...
yo!!! many more to come man cheers to all of us that going to pay more... -
The price of everything is skyrocketing....For young people like myself who are still very energetic and needs to chong, it is a nightmare.Originally posted by Joshua1975:yo!!! many more to come man cheers to all of us that going to pay more... -
The sad thing is these people are usually lowly educated and can only do menial work.Originally posted by Blueray:Nowadays I am seeing more and more elderly people working as cleaners in hawker centers. When I walk along the east coast beach I see homeless people sleeping at the seaside. I live near Bedok Interchange and whenever I come back home late at night I notice there are quite a few unkempt men make bed with cardboard paper. I have also noticed that there is an increase in the number of families who can't afford to pay their utility bills and therefore have to live in darkness.
Whenever I go to coffeeshops, I hear people complaining about the PAP and how they are kanna exploited at work all the time.
What do u guys think?
How do you define exploited at work? The foreign workers command a lower pay for menial work and they tend to work harder. Singaporeans will need to compete with them. Have you seen the Chinese in China work for a contract. They are so effecient and effective that it is scary. At the rate most Singaporeans work and want their rights, we will fall behind the chinese in terms of competition soon.
The government is trying to change most Singaporean mindset to stop looking to them for help when there is trouble. I think that we are too pampered a nation really.
Anyway, there are 2 sides of a coin. You see the homeless sleeping in the streets and yet at the same time, you can see ppl queueing up to buy Louis Vuitton bags at their boutique. You also get people who don't think twice paying S$150 for a dress.
There will always be a gap between the rich and the poor, the only question is, is the gap widening too much? Call it a vicious cycle but in most cases, the rich gets richer while the poor gets poorer. -
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Well, they will have to justify even after staying at home for so many years, they can still add value to their work in the current job market.Originally posted by I_love_korea_n:even though some got education , after bearing the children and bringing them up, nobody wants to employ already la, saying too old, even if they are willing to learn also nobody gives chance.
All becos of too many chinese, malaysian etc coming here to find work, so singaporean gets kick out of the market.
we must support singaporean workers , right?
employers must treat own singapore workers better.
The thing is that the chinese and malaysians have lower expectations and they are hard workers as well. The company will always weigh the pros and cons. If all things constant in terms in work output, the company will logically choose someone who is of lower cost.
Support is one thing. Singaporeans must be able to add value to their work to justify their higher pay. If not, we will continue to lose jobs to the foreigners -
I remember half a year ago when my friend just finished his O level exams, he was trying to look for a job as a factory worker or something like that.... He called on phone to enquire about the job. The first words he heard coming from the opposite end of the phone were "We only employ Malaysians".Originally posted by I_love_korea_n:even though some got education , after bearing the children and bringing them up, nobody wants to employ already la, saying too old, even if they are willing to learn also nobody gives chance.
All becos of too many chinese, malaysian etc coming here to find work, so singaporean gets kick out of the market.
we must support singaporean workers , right?
employers must treat own singapore workers better. -
i love the topic.good point elindra. in fact i do agree the gap in singapore is getting wider and wider, this is effect due to our country to focus up the value chain in our industry. more work will be focus on skill and professional service than just manual job. moreover our govt open arms to cheap labour taking over lower levels jobs set the salaryceiling . singaporean who are less educated will get stuck in the pay bracket and will be use as comparison with worker from foriegn country.
those job who are paying well, will be compare to jobs in UK, states and western europe which in terms of salary, singapore still relative competitive and are less subjective to foreign talents influx.
can we live without foreign workers?yes and no answer. if we say no , do we have enough singaporean to perform the job. doesn anyone wana pay town council $120a mth for conservation charges so that a local singaporean can do the job. currently $61 for 5 room, bangla job.
i never like P.P, as the name go, pay and pay. if we are paying for what we get reasonably, its fine. only things unreasonable to me is HDB. no doubt i agree no ministries with exception of defence or home affair should lose money, but it shouldnt be making billions of singaporean hard earn cash.
10 years ago, my parents bought 4 room only 100k area 110msq. now name change 5room , floor area same, cost 200k. byt compare to 10 years ago, salary dint jump by 100%. we afford it because of easy loans these days. so that singapore can have booming banking sector and everyone has a shelter only to be in debt for the next 30 years. you can die but you cannot sick. sound familiar, but it true.
will we see a singapore govern by another party? not in the next 10 years or unless singapore have a big disaster. Hitler will not be in power has the country not in depression and rich gap getting wider as the jews prosper and average germans suffer. discontment exist and demands change of govt.
on th avergae singapore are still surviving but when things come to stage where majority singapore is really not meeting end needs, things will change. and new arena will be born.
all my personal opinion, if it conflict with anyone pt, my apology -
Usually, structural unemployment will have a gap where the economy moves on to a higher-order sector but the workforce skills lag behind due to human factors.
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Poverty and discontent
started when Anti-welfare policy,
With good intent,
Got mis-carried into a cost-recovery binge,
Pursued in the name of efficiency,
To ultimate high costs,
Alas, it will take yet a mighty new ideology,
Like mass participation,
Equal opportunity for everyone,
To undo what was done,
To reach final enlightenment and nationhood once again.
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Haiz....... complain also no use! we'll koe when the time comes!
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complains are from the financial incompetant. If you cannot afford things like petrol or expensive dining, then don't try to be like the jones. lose the car, take a bus or something else.
sleeping in the streets will fall under the destitute persons act. People who sleep in corners of streets and buidlings are a nuisence to society. they pee and shit all over the place. poor financial planning cannot be confused for government abuse.
blame yourself. dont blame government.
from my observation i see many people moving to condos and landed property. in any society, destitutes and useless people plague the streets. is the whole world government inefficient? i believe singapore is already doing a great job as a 1st world nation. -
agree in some sense that some singaporean who complain they are poor are actually living in condos and driving a japanese car. well, these ppl should just downgrade and live comfortably.
what we are saying is generally the lower educated ppl who are willing to work but could not meet end needs. i agree singapore are facing structural unemployment at this stage, but are this problem here to stay for a long time, besides, we also face age discrimination in the workforce. how many times have we heard in the news, radio, newspaper about cases of discimination by employer in our singapore society. this kind of discrimination are more serious problem that structural unemplloyment. at least structural unemployment problem would be resolve by the next generation but age discrimination in the working place is tough problem to tackle and often less able to detect and catch the company, as each company has the right to employ the right workers to suit their requirement.
how many of us are not worrying abt retrenchment when you hit late 30s and 40s. even if we are to lower our requirement, but yet not given a chance in the workforce for the elderly.
save enough for retirement is the answer, if we can live what we can afford today and not living on tomorrow money. but still, can we save enough for retirement, 2 million?? gosh, then must hit bigsweep from now before i retire. -
When there is trouble and we cant look to the government for help,then why the hell do we need this kind of "useless" government?One thing we have to remember,GST,increase of utility fees,education fees,transportation fees,medical fees etc,all these is not within our control,its the "government" who take charge of it.And high jobless rate,high rental fees,poor economy etc,all these are poor management of the "government".If all the goodies the "government" know how to take,and every year taxing more n more fiercelyand when we are getting poorer n poorer and they come to us and say "u die ur business,we are not going to responsible for it!"This kind of "f**k up government better go n die!Dont forget u know,our dear PM Goh salary is higher than that of the U.S president,if he n his colleagues cant do the job well,why the hell do we need them for?To eat finish our rice?Originally posted by elindra:The sad thing is these people are usually lowly educated and can only do menial work.
How do you define exploited at work? The foreign workers command a lower pay for menial work and they tend to work harder. Singaporeans will need to compete with them. Have you seen the Chinese in China work for a contract. They are so effecient and effective that it is scary. At the rate most Singaporeans work and want their rights, we will fall behind the chinese in terms of competition soon.
The government is trying to change most Singaporean mindset to stop looking to them for help when there is trouble. I think that we are too pampered a nation really.
Anyway, there are 2 sides of a coin. You see the homeless sleeping in the streets and yet at the same time, you can see ppl queueing up to buy Louis Vuitton bags at their boutique. You also get people who don't think twice paying S$150 for a dress.
There will always be a gap between the rich and the poor, the only question is, is the gap widening too much? Call it a vicious cycle but in most cases, the rich gets richer while the poor gets poorer. -
Croco is poor
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Croco dun need money to survice de ...Originally posted by sgboy2004:Croco is poor -
Why wait for the government to help you? Better to help yourself then to wait for them. Become skeleton liao if you wait for them.Originally posted by drawer:When there is trouble and we cant look to the government for help,then why the hell do we need this kind of "useless" government?One thing we have to remember,GST,increase of utility fees,education fees,transportation fees,medical fees etc,all these is not within our control,its the "government" who take charge of it.And high jobless rate,high rental fees,poor economy etc,all these are poor management of the "government".If all the goodies the "government" know how to take,and every year taxing more n more fiercelyand when we are getting poorer n poorer and they come to us and say "u die ur business,we are not going to responsible for it!"This kind of "f**k up government better go n die!Dont forget u know,our dear PM Goh salary is higher than that of the U.S president,if he n his colleagues cant do the job well,why the hell do we need them for?To eat finish our rice? -
Saving lotsa money for emergencies and retirement is indeed the key. I think many are realising this, hence the falling birth rate. The cost of raising children is just way too high. Notice how those families that have problems paying their bills usually have 2 or more kids? You're much more mobile and able to work overseas at a moment's notice if you're not saddled with children and a high overhead, also able to save a much larger percentage of your income.
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I hate to admit it, but I agree with av98m. Cost of having children is too high!
Start from marraige; the cost of a 'dun lose face' wedding can be quite high ($5k, or $10k??? I dun really know) to be spent at 1 shot, assuming you decide that you don't want your honeymoon.
Then all the cost of buying a new home (think i saw another thread about HDB prices being too high). Assuming that you still want to stay in your parents' basement, then you can save on that.
Then educating the child. Kindergarten 2 years, 6 years primary school, 4 years secondary school, 3 years poly. Total 15 years of studies you have to pay for. I'm assuming that you want to save money on JC and uni (local $5.5k a year I think).
Non of the gals I date want to have children.
Anyway, in my personal opinion, I do not think Sg is a nanny state. A nanny state is one that doles out free food and unemployment benefits for those who cannot find jobs for certain reasons. Their education is free, including local uni. Their medical is also free (I know there are exceptions, conditions and flaws in such a system). In such a state, the taxes imposed on the working ppl is rather heavy.
If sg was a nanny state, we would not be discussing this topic in this thread right? It will seem more like, "Why should I work when I'm taxed to feed those too lazy to work?" -
Originally posted by SilverPal:I hate to admit it, but I agree with av98m. Cost of having children is too high! etc etc
It all depends on the expectation of the individual (plus how one cave in into the demands of the family. The marriage can be made simple, why it is not, is as you'd said, "saving face". I wanted my wedding to be simple, but my parents didn't want that. My dad even allow his guest to drink Guinness by the glass... ok with me... he paid for it. Cost of children is not too high, if one can dispense with the frills eg, extra lessons, etc. I have two children. They are relatively low maintenance. No tuition, no music lessons, no ballet, no singing lessons etc. Best part is that they are doing well in school. The issue with the desolete may not necessarily lie with the government. How about people who did abandon their own parents? Or people who refuse to be frugal when they were rich? Old folks working in food court? Many of them may be doing by choice ie. do not wish to sit around at home. When my dad was retrenched (or retired), I told him he had three choices: 1. Work because he need to (financial reason), 2. Work because he choose to (psychological reason) 3. or what the heck, stay at home (don't want, don't need to work). He choose 3. Not because he (or I) is stinking rich, but because we have a simpler life style.
... please don't get me wrong. I am not a government lackey. Just that it is too easy to blame someone else for our own follies.... -
One MAJOR cause of discontentment:
Lots of points have been brought up. Rising costs of living, losing our jobs to cheaper foreign "talent", our leaders telling us to work longer, add value, re-train, accept less pay etc. My question is, why are our ministers still taking home their huge salaries? Compare that to the leaders of the other countries including the US! To say nothing of their lifelong pensions (even for normal MPs who have served a minimum of 2 terms, I think). Pension scheme is longer offered in the civil service but the MPs and ministers are still enjoying the benefits. Have they added any value to their "work"? Do they work harder than their counterparts in other countries? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Perhaps we should outsource our entire Cabinet to China or India. -
poverty and discontentment on rise in singapore can be view through the election results. if the election results can reflect the real voice of the ppl or needs than the citizen itself has to bear some responsibilities. some mitgh argue because we dont have a good opposition party/ candidate, isnt capability need chance to prove themselves.
if singaporean are really discontented then i think next election we can see a better fight, otherwise most just complaining and asking for more. -
The reason for the cabinet to have such high pay bracket was to prevent any chances for the MPs to accept bribery. ThatÂ’s why our cabinet staffs are very well paid so that they wonÂ’t fall into the possibility like their counterpart in this Asia region. But nonetheless they are ok with the citizen here to accept lower pay and not themselves as MPs. Oh by the way their pay will be back to where they have drop before, this coming Sept I think.Originally posted by av98m:One MAJOR cause of discontentment:
Lots of points have been brought up. Rising costs of living, losing our jobs to cheaper foreign "talent", our leaders telling us to work longer, add value, re-train, accept less pay etc. My question is, why are our ministers still taking home their huge salaries? Compare that to the leaders of the other countries including the US! To say nothing of their lifelong pensions (even for normal MPs who have served a minimum of 2 terms, I think). Pension scheme is longer offered in the civil service but the MPs and ministers are still enjoying the benefits. Have they added any value to their "work"? Do they work harder than their counterparts in other countries? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Perhaps we should outsource our entire Cabinet to China or India.
The observation made by Blueray is real, it basically tells that the current society and cost of living does not allow any people to be poor and/or entirely retired even when youÂ’re old. Though these folks who works at the hawker center as cleaner has low education, all I can say is that they live in a time without a choice. But they should be given a chance to live their lives without the stress of worrying will their money be enough for their bills or even a simple meal. They have contribute to our nation during their younger days however much they may have contribute, it is only right to help these folks to have their bills and meals taken care of. After all I believe the reserve that we have would or may have enough funds in taking care of these poorer folks, anyway strictly speaking the amount of funds in the reserve has their contribution too.
Everything here cost money, ranging from basic necessity to medical & education. The amount has rise and nothing has fall. So why are we complaining and relying on our government? Basically to seek for a chance of relieves or at least give us a chance to take a breather. At the rate that they are trying to “drain” us, eventually this country is only good for the “rich” and the “poor”, but not for the in between, because the in-between are the one feeding both end.
It may be true that we should not complain our government for our poor financial planning, but then again if only our government could ease us on the basic necessity then we certainly would be better off for awhile. Not when economies are in the recovery state then everything starts to goes up. What about when economies are down would the price of the necessity follow suit? Our Power station get our supply from Indonesia when both countries government signed a few years of contract without the change of price but yet when oil prices rise our electrical bills follow suit too. How fair is this?
It may be true that the foreigners have lower expectation but you must understand that they come from a place where their cost is so much lower than ours. After staying here for a period of times they would end up like us too, finding it difficult to survive even with the pay they are drawing. The fundamental cost on the necessity is still presence however low their expectation may be, why then would these Chinese ladies who bring the children here for further study requires to earn “extra” cash. This is because the cost of living here is something that they have never expected to be, then again you may say to differ. Let ask ourselves would a normal lady be willing to “sleep” around to earn an extra buck if they have a choice? This is also a classic case of poor financial planning (as describe in previous comment) and they shouldn’t blame on the government, but themselves and also creating a nuisance to the society too.
The way I notice is that the trend of our employer is different as before. Previously they would ask for loyalty staff. Nowadays it cost before loyalty, the only value added that you could differ yourself from others is when you are able to bring extra business or money or saving some cost to the company. Then you are considered “value added”, otherwise you’re no difference from the rest of the workforce be it local or foreigners. Think about it. Just to give you an example imagines in an administrative role, would a newbies be of any different from an old bird? Other than the experience, the boss would believe that everything could be trained or taught to the newbies, all they waste is only time but in long run they save on the cost… think about it. The trend of outsourcing is happening too, be it sooner or later such role could be outsourced too. Now look at your own role in the company, can or will your job be outsource too? -
It may be true that the reflection of the election would tell the discontentment of the people here, but that how the come about of the GRC which divides the discontentment people to small fraction. And also if you remembered in the last election it happened such that in the last hours the government throws out news on the share allotment, which ended up their vote went up more than the opposition.Originally posted by reyes:poverty and discontentment on rise in singapore can be view through the election results. if the election results can reflect the real voice of the ppl or needs than the citizen itself has to bear some responsibilities. some mitgh argue because we dont have a good opposition party/ candidate, isnt capability need chance to prove themselves.
if singaporean are really discontented then i think next election we can see a better fight, otherwise most just complaining and asking for more.
The complaining noise would continue as the older folks would only complain while the up and coming younger ones would be more vocal, so to really see a good fight this would take at least another five to ten years. From now till then the current party would have a smooth sailing victory, because by then the opposition parties would have more daring vocal people as compared to those we have now. -
Yes, its true. We do end up with the government that we deserve. What the people should do if they really want to send a message is to ignore the "carrots" dangled in front of them before the elections, be it upgrading of flats or share allotments. However I will bet on the same thing happening again. The majority of the people will go for the carrots. Voters in Singapore have very short term memory, based on the results of the last few GEs. It does not help that we don't really have much of an opposition movement here, since most of us are content to complain and do nothing. It may take a very serious economic crisis to wake us up.