can't stand singaporeans who think they are ang mor
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Originally posted by YaoRockets:1. "Ang mor" wanna be.
2. self-prescribed westerners in Asia and asians in the west.
well said, but fortunately not all singaporean are like that. -
Originally posted by YaoRockets:
mind telling me what is the meaning of Ang mor??? thanks..
what do you mean by [b]Asianized chinese? it doesn't make sense. chinese are asians, the biggest one actually. chinese defines asians.
this is my impression of singaporean:
1. "Ang mor" wanna be.
2. self-prescribed westerners in Asia and asians in the west. [/b] -
thank you very much.Originally posted by Qitai:Help you a bit here.
Angmor = western white people. Direct translation from Hokkien meaning "red hair" or "red devil"
Noe = Know
Peepur = People
Oso = Also -
haha. i am working in CAAS changi airport. the Air Transport department alot of people with the ang mo slang. dunno leh. i think the girls slang damn sexy
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Just to comment and point out, just as how you all are quarreling with each other here, the Americans and British have been quarreling with ech other for many years whose english is the right kind of english.Originally posted by cunnibal:Hmm, when i say ur grandpa speaks chinese, i meant he speaks part of the Han chinese family of dialects, in ur case it's hokkien.
Mandarin or rather putong hua is derived from the beijing dialect for use as the lingua franca or official language of china, this is of course also chinese.
So u see here, when I say I speak chinese, what do i mean? do I mean i speak the official language, or any of the many dialects? the word 'chinese' is the universal set of languages, slangs and dialects pertaining to the chinese while mandarin, putong hua, hokkien, shanghainese, cantonese etc are just subsets of this universal set.
Well, at least that's what I meant and what I understood...
Can tell you one thing, we Singaporeans grew up learning what is supposed to be British English, but I have more trouble understanding a Brit than an American. -
Some may find it sad, but quite honestly, I do not really feel a sense of attachment to my roots in China. And I believe I'm not alone. It's not that I despise being Chinese or whatever, it's just that I don't see Singapore as an extension to the most populated country in the world.
Wherever our ancestors came from, we are now our own nation. Japan itself started out as a bunch of manchurians who left china for another island. But has now become a completely diff nation and country, with seemingly no links to China.
And if you think of the black people in America or Europe. People like Michael Jordan or soccer players like Edgar Davids, Andy Cole. Their ancestry started out in Africa. But do they feel any sense on ancestry towards the countries their forefathers came from?
To me, being chinese is but a race. It doesn't automatically create a bond between me and china. I am Singaporean, that's all I know. And unless China takes over Singapore, China is not my country.
If you ask me there is no correct form of chinese and there is no correct form of english. The very people who think are the masters of their own mother tongue quarrel among themselves.
People from different provinces in China argue with each other whose pronounciation is correct and whose isn't. Already said, the American's and British can't agree on inches and metres. Even Americans make fun of themselves how you get different slang from different states.
Language is dependant on where you are. Just like culture is affected by the surroundings you are in, not the surroundings your forefathers came from. -
we are not here to ask ourself to have sense of self belongment to china. i do agree we are singaporean chinese , not china chinese. but no need to look down on fellow chinese from china and up ourself that my point.
anyway, singaporean do have little problem with own heritage, the reason the previous writer wrote abt japanese coming from manchurian i am not sure but sure they from china somewhere. but after that they dont really consider themselves chinese anymore. they can only be call yellow skin.
but can we not call ourself chinese in singapore. maybe nothing wrong with ppl who feel speak with angmo slang to feel and look cool and up themselves by doing so. whose fault?
let it be lah, singapore chinese do have problems with own heritage, most prefer to be angmo than chinese. by the way, most feel this way are ppl visionise angmo as those moviestar on the big screen and TV. if u travel more extensively, hey, you will be able to see ugly side of them.
singaporean= one kind of attitude who idolise the west and dispising the fellow colors ( some ppl) -
That my friend is because we watch more american movies, TV shows then british ones - the Sun has already set for the british empire, and the new global master is the Yanks. Even brit DJs in UK try to slang like an american....Originally posted by SumOne:Just to comment and point out, just as how you all are quarreling with each other here, the Americans and British have been quarreling with ech other for many years whose english is the right kind of english.
Can tell you one thing, we Singaporeans grew up learning what is supposed to be British English, but I have more trouble understanding a Brit than an American. -
Japan oldest written histories are the KOJIKI, AD712 and NIHONGI, AD720, But origins of the Jap remain largely a mystery. Scientists believe as early as 4500 BC there were ppl living in the islands. It is believed that by AD100 the ppl living throughout the islands closely resembled the present day Jap, in language and appearance. Chinese, Korean and a group of ppl called Ainu made up the largest minority group.Originally posted by SumOne:Some may find it sad, but quite honestly, I do not really feel a sense of attachment to my roots in China. And I believe I'm not alone. It's not that I despise being Chinese or whatever, it's just that I don't see Singapore as an extension to the most populated country in the world.
Wherever our ancestors came from, we are now our own nation. Japan itself started out as a bunch of manchurians who left china for another island. But has now become a completely diff nation and country, with seemingly no links to China.
And if you think of the black people in America or Europe. People like Michael Jordan or soccer players like Edgar Davids, Andy Cole. Their ancestry started out in Africa. But do they feel any sense on ancestry towards the countries their forefathers came from?
To me, being chinese is but a race. It doesn't automatically create a bond between me and china. I am Singaporean, that's all I know. And unless China takes over Singapore, China is not my country.
If you ask me there is no correct form of chinese and there is no correct form of english. The very people who think are the masters of their own mother tongue quarrel among themselves.
People from different provinces in China argue with each other whose pronounciation is correct and whose isn't. Already said, the American's and British can't agree on inches and metres. Even Americans make fun of themselves how you get different slang from different states.
Language is dependant on where you are. Just like culture is affected by the surroundings you are in, not the surroundings your forefathers came from.
Chinese influence in Japan came at late 400's, among other things, system of writing, advanced method of calculating the calendar, confucianism and by 552, Buddhism came in from China.
Scientists believe the Korean people were in korea 30,000 yrs ago.
did japan started out as manchurians?? Not likely.
japanese were never linked to china. in fact, japanese are the most conservative ppl. While their way of life may be very americanized, their heritage, their language, their culture remain very much similar to what it was centuries ago.
World mass immigration happened between 1700-1820, mainly to America, three fifth of the immigrants were of english origin, hence English was the dominant language. The greatest immigration happened between 1820 to 1830 'cos of the Great Famine in Europe. These europeans moved to south america, africa and Australia. That explains why in these places, many european languages are spoken even up till today.
What it says here is that the immigrants brought their languages and culture to where they went. They did not go and assimilate with the locals, and it was because they were proud of their heritage and culture!!
Chinese immigrants left China in much later dates and where they landed they were already local languages and culture . China towns were established in places where the chinese wanted to retain their heritage, especially in places where they were visibly different, from the whites or the black.
Most European immigrants were able to migrate because they were rich, to pay for the trip out of Europe to places like america and australia. Many Chinese immigrants left China because they were poor, many were sold as labourers.
The rich were educated and the poor were not educated. In new settlements, schools, like hospitals were built by westerners. Chinese who can afford send their children back to china for education, otherwise stay locals. In British colonies like singapore, most took up studied english, easy to find job. So where is our culture and heritage..... if our parents did not pass on to us?
It is not anybody's fault that some of us do not feel the link with China. To put it correctly, mainland China, especially when under the communists, was not a place we would like to have link with. Finding root is to explain why we are what we are today. Singapore is too young a nation to develop our own culture and heritage, yet.
HK, have come under the british for 150 yrs have not lost their chineseness and the ability to speak cantonese. The jews around the world can be citizens for generations in many countries outside Isreal but they are jews and their heritage remains, since the time of Abraham.
Why? Looking at the history of the jewist people, there were persecuted left right centre so there is nothing to shout about, but they remain jews as a people.
I was born in Singapore, but was not born an indian, malay or angmoh, but chinese, like my father and mother. I thus was born with their heritage. In singapore, I am glad I have the opportunity to learn about Chinese, language and culture to be more of a chinese. At the same time, as a Singaporean, my life with the different races here in Singapore add on to my heritage as a singaporean. This chinese singaporean heritage will be passed on to my children...until such days when my descendents married indian or angmoh in Singapore and they cannot call them chinese anymore but only Singaporean, but if they migrate to another country, then they cannot call themselve Singaporean anymore, but they remain Chinese.
Just to share with you about my feeling, sorry a bit long winded.
have a good evening. -
Very good post
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The people I really applaud are those who take their time to learn as many languages as they can, and use them proudly, even though these languages have no connexion (or was it connection? Same?) to their cultures at all. I believe there's this guy who have learnt almost FORTY(!) languages, most of which he had acquired before he was 20. Proficiently, too. And these languages are not just Indo-European alone. It is diversified. Talk about trying to beat the curse of Babel (or something).
There are people who can be blamed, but some cannot be, because they've never been exposed to that language when young, but we can't tell until they tell us so. But sadly, we as human beings would judge at first impression most of the time, though, so even truly innocent individuals are dragged into the water.
Anyway, if anyone's interested: Amongst linguists, they can't really decide if Hokkien, Cantonese, etc, should be classified as separate languages or dialects. According to some, they should be languages because they're mutually unintelligible, but some stick to the dialect classification. I choose the latter, since the grammar, writing systems, etc, are the same. In fact, except for the slight differences in expression between the two countries, we might even call them different accents for the same Chinese words.
WJTW -
cunnibal , u r rite in saying that everyone has their own piorities...so respect that.... u know and i know dat there are a lot of people like that everywhere....just dun let them bother u...or u will be a very unhappy person..... Singaporeans do really have to learn to be more courteous and polite though....5 yrs staying in brisbane.....when i returned to singapore..i was shocked and very much ashamed at how rude singaporeans can be....Originally posted by cunnibal:I know they are peranakans, no excuse!!8-)) I know every one has their own priorities- learning about ur own culture and language may not be amongst them, but I utterly despise peepur who are such pretenders - i've came across lotsa peepur who think that by anouncing that they are very poor in mandarin it makes them high class. U may not agree with me, but just sit down and look carefully, there are, there are such peepur.
I've had this classmate of mine, who confessed to me that he felt ashame being a chinese - what the freak u wanna be? ang mor? u can speak, walk, crap and eat like one, but ultimately u still look, smell bleed like a chinese.
Till now , when i thank somebody for a service eg. cleaning lady at the food court....... they look at me in "shock" like i just spoke something foreign.
Truth is ...there is alot we can criticise about...learn to let live .....or u will never been happy.... people might see you as a person who " is self-opinionated " "self-declared perfect " and "has to be always rite" type of person...are you? time to self-reflect.
cheers -
Just to void your statement, I do have friends who are quite Anglicized Indians and Malays.Regardless of your opinions, no one should condemn such people for their heritage and should look at their achievements.We all live our lives differently, it's when we recognize that reality, then we can truly say we are a informed and mature society.Or else, we are no different than a bunch of narrow-minded misogynists of language, not of gender.Originally posted by sgdiehard:In reality, billions of people in this world do not speak chinese! can't look down on them for this reason. We do not look down on ABC because they were born into an environment where they have no chance to learn their mother tongue. I pity them for their parents have not passed down to them their heritage and culture, including language. Compared to the ABC, I applaud the peranakan parents for they speak hokkien even after generations.
But we are talking about people who first look down on their own culture and think everything angmoh is good. People who do not want to learn their own culture and language because they think english is better and is enough. Unfortunately we find many of such people among the Chinese in singapore. You don't find malay who don't speak malay or indian who don't speak tamil or hindi, do you? -
The question is not if they speak english or not, it is whether they choose to speak english in place of their mother tongue, Tamil, Hindi or Malay! If they speak both then there is no question. Fully agree that no one should look down on others heritage, the question is do they know their own heritage and are they proud of it? If they do not know or do not recognise their heritage, than there is nothing for others to look down on.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Just to void your statement, I do have friends who are quite Anglicized Indians and Malays.Regardless of your opinions, no one should condemn such people for their heritage and should look at their achievements.We all live our lives differently, it's when we recognize that reality, then we can truly say we are a informed and mature society.Or else, we are no different than a bunch of narrow-minded misogynists of language, not of gender.
We recognise the reality that such people exist in Singapore, but that does not mean we have to agree with them. Nobody is putting a gun on their head to force them to change, but others should be allowed to give disapproving comments, this is also part of the requisite for a mature society. -
Bi-lingualism will solve the problem mentioned here.
If in addition to learning English for working purpose, we do learn our mother tongue, such feeling of Angmo will not arise.
I have a feeling that a few who need to behave like Angmo did not learn to be bi-lingual. They should take a trip to learn from bi-lingual countries who are proud of their own culture and language irrespective of how others receive or regard them.
They don't feel the need to be more Angmo or please others to be well-received in any environment. Foreigner will be happy to speak to us in our language if we are self-respecting as to honor our own culture and language. -
\Originally posted by laurence82:Blame Canada!
haha..why?? -
Well said!! Put it in another way, "if we are NOT self-respecting as to honor our own culture and language", then others will NOT respect us.Originally posted by robertteh:Bi-lingualism will solve the problem mentioned here.
If in addition to learning English for working purpose, we do learn our mother tongue, such feeling of Angmo will not arise.
I have a feeling that a few who need to behave like Angmo did not learn to be bi-lingual. They should take a trip to learn from bi-lingual countries who are proud of their own culture and language irrespective of how others receive or regard them.
They don't feel the need to be more Angmo or please others to be well-received in any environment. Foreigner will be happy to speak to us in our language if we are self-respecting as to honor our own culture and language. -
i agree, we chinkjiaporen just need to be more gracious, i'm glad to see that most of the time, when there is a pregnant lady or person in need of a seat on MRTs or buses, we will see kind hearted souls giving up their seats for these people.Originally posted by genxal:cunnibal , u r rite in saying that everyone has their own piorities...so respect that.... u know and i know dat there are a lot of people like that everywhere....just dun let them bother u...or u will be a very unhappy person..... Singaporeans do really have to learn to be more courteous and polite though....5 yrs staying in brisbane.....when i returned to singapore..i was shocked and very much ashamed at how rude singaporeans can be....
Till now , when i thank somebody for a service eg. cleaning lady at the food court....... they look at me in "shock" like i just spoke something foreign.
Truth is ...there is alot we can criticise about...learn to let live .....or u will never been happy.... people might see you as a person who " is self-opinionated " "self-declared perfect " and "has to be always rite" type of person...are you? time to self-reflect.
cheers
On the other hand, I hate it when peepur dun keep to the left on escalators when they are not overtaking.
Interestingly, when I compare australians and british, I find that peepur in brisbane is not as polite - in fact, I find them similar to singaporeans in terms of politeness- maybe just a bit more polite...
when u compare many singaporeans to Koreans and chinese - you'll find that we aren't the worst, but that's no excuse to slacken!! -
totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!Originally posted by sgdiehard:Well said!! Put it in another way, "if we are NOT self-respecting as to honor our own culture and language", then others will NOT respect us. -
Culture is built upon the society. Even schools have their own cultures. That is culture. It has little to do with language, very little.Originally posted by cunnibal:totally agree!!!!!!!!!!! -
as you have said, these are Anglicized - which mean they think that english culture is their culture or english is their mother tongue? Then, so be it! if they think that english is their culture then be proud of it, just like me or any of our malay and indian brothers, who are equally proud of their own non-english cultures.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Just to void your statement, I do have friends who are quite Anglicized Indians and Malays.Regardless of your opinions, no one should condemn such people for their heritage and should look at their achievements.We all live our lives differently, it's when we recognize that reality, then we can truly say we are a informed and mature society.Or else, we are no different than a bunch of narrow-minded misogynists of language, not of gender.
ps: If i try going around telling peepur dat my culture is english (esp. to a brit/yank/aussie), see the type of puzzled look you'll get from them - first - i dun look remotely angmor, second, my accent totally 'tak kena'.
I'm proud of my accent, proud of my heritage as a farmer's descendent, and I have no needs of trying to identify myself with another culture - I'm singaporean and incidentally, I'm chinese.
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the only reason why a chinese should learn Western languages and culture is to make money from them. they are of no further use otherwiseOriginally posted by cunnibal:I really cannot stand chinese singaporean who act as though they do not have chinese ancestry, like the Zheng family of Joochiat - quote from old uncle zheng '...I dun understand mandarin...' and he say it with an air of arrogance - i know many singaporean has the same type of atitude and mentality, they thought that by denoucing their chinese-ness and by speaking their broken and laughable english(which to them is perfect), it makes them very ang mor.
Little do they know that they are the laughing stock that Ang Mors make fun of in their little potluck parties. I've came across these couple of American ladies when I was working in American club making fun of the way a singaporean auntie spoke on the MRT - for all u noe, the s'porean auntie may be thinking that "U see, I showed the angmor lady that I oso can speak English, wat!" without knowing that in actual fact, she is just making a fool out of herself.
I always feel that if you can't even master ur own mother tongue, or attempt to master it, and know your own culture, how can you demand respect from others? I'm sorry for the strong words, but I despise peepur who despise their own language and culture.
Dunno if this problem exist among our Malay and indian brothers? do u have peepur of ur own race who are like these chinese counterparts? -
Since the day your ancestor left China, you ceased to be Chinese.
Since the day your ancestors drank the water of singapore, you became a Singaporean.
javascript:emoticon('')
Mr. Green Forget Mandarin, it was never the tongue of your ancestors. Hokkien or Cantonese perhaps, but never Mandarin unless your ancestors hail from Beijing.
Singlish rules OK ? -
Actually, its purely one's deduction of another person's action or speech.Originally posted by cunnibal:I really cannot stand chinese singaporean who act as though they do not have chinese ancestry, like the Zheng family of Joochiat - quote from old uncle zheng '...I dun understand mandarin...' and he say it with an air of arrogance - i know many singaporean has the same type of atitude and mentality, they thought that by denoucing their chinese-ness and by speaking their broken and laughable english(which to them is perfect), it makes them very ang mor.
Little do they know that they are the laughing stock that Ang Mors make fun of in their little potluck parties. I've came across these couple of American ladies when I was working in American club making fun of the way a singaporean auntie spoke on the MRT - for all u noe, the s'porean auntie may be thinking that "U see, I showed the angmor lady that I oso can speak English, wat!" without knowing that in actual fact, she is just making a fool out of herself.
I always feel that if you can't even master ur own mother tongue, or attempt to master it, and know your own culture, how can you demand respect from others? I'm sorry for the strong words, but I despise peepur who despise their own language and culture.
Dunno if this problem exist among our Malay and indian brothers? do u have peepur of ur own race who are like these chinese counterparts?
The auntie put in the effort of speaking another person's language, despite of our initial roots - we never knew English, but we learnt it.
Wouldnt someone from a foreign country feel more native and welcomed, if they heard their mother tongue being spoken. Just as u would, if u are in japan, india, africa, europe or america and someone spoke mandarin, when ur onli mandarin lingualistic.
The auntie's rationale may just be a form of courtesy.
Never mind, wat foreigners might think ( that we are fools )
Just be gracious. -
hmmm i prefer to refer to myself as a Singaporean
seriously, the gov made a major mistake in putting 'race' in our IC...i mean, whats the purpose of that?! why not just put 'singaporean' can liao?
some foreigners are quite amazed about that fact
there was once when i was in Aussie and this ang moh auntie came and welcomed me... she ask, are you japanese? i replied no i'm chinese.. and then i started to think...crap she must have thought i'm from china..should have said i'm Singaporean
i mean well yea, our ancestors were from china, india etc but the american ancestors were also from the European nations! we dont see them refering themselves as british, spanish, portuguese etc
anyway, my mandarin sucks.... but my english and hokkien are way better