Role of NTUC and need union leader be part of politics?
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anyone ever ponder what is the role of our worker union? does tripatite really exist in singapore and will anyone care for labour movement in singapore.
i really question the function and role of NTUC play in our labour movement. impartiality of NTUC.
my question:
1. why union leaders from NTUC need to join PAP. isnt union to stand alone and just fight solely for the benefits for the workers iregardless who is in power? of coz they may explain by working inside PAP they can get opinion of workers to the party more easily. i say, so that the party can control the union more easily.
can anymore share their experience with labour movement in another country as compare to ours?
i white collar worker and not eligible to join union in my industry. but i really concern for the stage of our union. to some ppl, they cant even distinguish between NTUC and PAP. to such extend NTUC to some ppl are basically supermarket chain that offer points redemption for members. -
Combative Korean labour unions is that a good example for you.Originally posted by reyes:anyone ever ponder what is the role of our worker union? does tripatite really exist in singapore and will anyone care for labour movement in singapore.
i really question the function and role of NTUC play in our labour movement. impartiality of NTUC.
my question:
1. why union leaders from NTUC need to join PAP. isnt union to stand alone and just fight solely for the benefits for the workers iregardless who is in power? of coz they may explain by working inside PAP they can get opinion of workers to the party more easily. i say, so that the party can control the union more easily.
can anymore share their experience with labour movement in another country as compare to ours?
i white collar worker and not eligible to join union in my industry. but i really concern for the stage of our union. to some ppl, they cant even distinguish between NTUC and PAP. to such extend NTUC to some ppl are basically supermarket chain that offer points redemption for members.
SG depends a lot on foreign investment a combative union will scare a lot of them away. Will that be good for us ?
Union is for blue collar workers because they tend to be the less educated cohort and needs the help of the union to protect their rights and that they are fairly treated.
As for white-collar workers you can approach MOM or seek a lawyer if you have any grievances.
Hope I have answered your questions. Thank you. -
but NTUC isn't doing anything for them if its rights you're talking about, its just relocating them or retraining them for another jobOriginally posted by tspg:Combative Korean labour unions is that a good example for you.
SG depends a lot on foreign investment a combative union will scare a lot of them away. Will that be good for us ?
Union is for blue collar workers because they tend to be the less educated cohort and needs the help of the union to protect their rights and that they are fairly treated.
As for white-collar workers you can approach MOM or seek a lawyer if you have any grievances.
Hope I have answered your questions. Thank you. -
what's a "Minister without Portfolio"??
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it has been so long ago tat the post of "M without portfolio" has been relinquished....where were someone when it happened? in a welll??? whahahahhahaa.... tok lor
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i'm asking what the heck is it supposed to be... it does not have to exist now.. it existed some time ago.. just want to know what the heck is it...
your obsession with "tok lor" is showing itself... whatever your motive, i could not care less..
back to the question... what the heck is a Minister without Portfolio?Originally posted by sgboy2004:it has been so long ago tat the post of "M without portfolio" has been relinquished....where were someone when it happened? in a welll??? whahahahhahaa.... tok lor -
why ask motive if one care less... tok lor ...wahahahhahaha
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union leader who dun really lead??? who need one? i sure dun need one who lead you to no where.
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again, you have destroyed a discussion with your incessant nonsense...
that is the reason why.. personally vendettas with me, i don't care.. you don't exist in the real world anyway... trying my damnest to not be part of anything that causes discussions to come to a halt because of your nonsense... mayhap i can prevent it...
enough of the reptile...
back to the politics bit...
why should a union leader be part of politics?
and what the heck was a minister without portfolio about?
further BS from the reptile will be ignored by me... you guys wanna have a go, go ahead...Originally posted by sgboy2004:why ask motive if one care less... tok lor ...wahahahhahaha -
whahahah... *take dictionary to try to understand wat u toking....dun understand.... disappear *Originally posted by the Bear:again, you have destroyed a discussion with your incessant nonsense...
that is the reason why.. personally vendettas with me, i don't care.. you don't exist in the real world anyway... trying my damnest to not be part of anything that causes discussions to come to a halt because of your nonsense... mayhap i can prevent it...
enough of the reptile...
back to the politics bit...
why should a union leader be part of politics?
and what the heck was a minister without portfolio about?
further BS from the reptile will be ignored by me... you guys wanna have a go, go ahead... -
During the recession some employers didnt pay wages on time or didnt pay their CPF. The union take against the errant employers. The union also help retrench workers find new jobs and retraining as you mention.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:but NTUC isn't doing anything for them if its rights you're talking about, its just relocating them or retraining them for another job
What rights are you talking about, can clarify or give some examples? Thank You. The right I am talking about is the right to receive fair wages for work done.
BTW I am not PAP supporter but I am a union member. -
which recession? in the current one the union didn't seem to be helping much in preventing retrenchmentsOriginally posted by tspg:During the recession some employers didnt pay wages on time or didnt pay their CPF. The union take against the errant employers. The union also help retrench workers find new jobs and retraining as you mention.
What rights are you talking about, can clarify or give some examples? Thank You. The right I am talking about is the right to receive fair wages for work done.
BTW I am not PAP supporter but I am a union member.
to me , NTUC's turning into something more of a country club for the poor rather than a union
just look at the stuff they keep coming up with
same as our MPs ,they used to be people we elected to voice our opinions in the govt.
but now? they're more busy helping children stay in school by interfering with how the schools are runned
maybe if they spend more time running the area they're in charge off , the charges wouldn't go up -
The union is the union, PAP is PAP I think you are lumping the two together.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:which recession? in the current one the union didn't seem to be helping much in preventing retrenchments
to me , NTUC's turning into something more of a country club for the poor rather than a union
just look at the stuff they keep coming up with
same as our MPs ,they used to be people we elected to voice our opinions in the govt.
but now? they're more busy helping children stay in school by interfering with how the schools are runned
maybe if they spend more time running the area they're in charge off , the charges wouldn't go up
This thread is abt the union.
Nobody owes the workers a living. If the company is unprofitable they have to retrench to survive. You dun expect the union to force loss-making companies to keep its workers do you. What the union can is to help retrenched workers find new jobs in other sectors.
The work of job-creation belongs to the PAP govt. The second part of your post Out-of-POint liao. As I say PAP and Union are two separated entities please dun lump them together or confuse one for the other. -
To me, the union's role is to ensure that workers are not unfairly exploited. By that it can mean either unreasonable low salary or unreasonable firing or retrenchment of worker. As Singapore is a mature economy, these things seldom happen now.
One thing that we need to be catious about is not to push the above principal to the extreme, where instead of the employee being exploited, the employer becomes the victim. In a ideal environment, all parties should gain from the employee-employer relationship, where the employee gets to earn a living with a reasonable pay for his effort and the employer gets a profit from running the business.
Currently, the business environment works in such a way that companies generally do not fire any one when they are still profitable, even when some workers are unproductive. And when the company goes into reds (usually during crisis), they frantically find ways to cut cost. Usually this means retrechment since labour is usually the biggest cost for most companies. For the union, they do not have good reason to stop that since if the company goes bust, all workers are affected rather than just those who are retreched. Alternatively, everyone gets a pay cut. This was done in some companies during the crisis period, which is usually more humane.
The above scenario really leaves us little choice during crisis. This creates a very unhealthy situation of having the market being swarm by high unemployment during this period, making it difficult for those who are retreched to find another job.
Ideally, I think firing of unproductive worker should take place during even good years. The benefits are (1) They can find another job easily since it is in a good year; (2) They learn earlier in their working life that they are unproductive and needs retraining and not after they get comfortable. Then in the bad years, the company should just cut the salary of workers to get by those years, keeping all workers and getting themselves ready for the good years to come. This way, the impact of bad economy is shared equally by all rather than hitting it hard on the unproductive workers who were never told that they need retraining, until the economy goes bad.
Just my view of how things should really work. The problem now is that unions and companies do not tell unproductive worker they need to improve themselves until it is too late and in a situation where these unproductive worker has no alternative employment. -
TPSG,
i feel ashame to hear ur from union. i bet u r PAP union spy.
i ask this question which i bet u dont ask yourself before.
why ppl are confusing between PAP and NTUC? because our very union leader instead of sticking to their job as union leaders and protect welfare spent time, campaigning for the PAP during election.
now come the question why union leader need to join political party.
they have given reason as so that their voices from the worker can be better pass to the minister. but how can a person wearing 2 hats be consider unbias??
why all our union secretary need to be ppl from the PAP.
first lim boon heng now lim swee say.
i like lim swee say because i think is he a heartlander ppl who will think for the lower educated.
what we are trying to say, union might be doing a good job now, it would be better if all union leader leave the political scene and focus on the union role.
we are not asking to be following korean labour union. but by the way, which country who has a strong labour union are not doing well economically?
korean , HK, australia, japan??
hey, strong labour movement doesnt mean all affect the development of the economy if manage properly.
if time all union leaders and union members to wake up their idea.
by the way, im non union. im not looking to join one. just feel sad for the blue collar worker who are manupulated by the poor leadership of their respective labour union. -
TPSG,
i feel ashame to hear ur from union. i bet u r PAP union spy.
i ask this question which i bet u dont ask yourself before.
why ppl are confusing between PAP and NTUC? because our very union leader instead of sticking to their job as union leaders and protect welfare spent time, campaigning for the PAP during election.
now come the question why union leader need to join political party.
they have given reason as so that their voices from the worker can be better pass to the minister. but how can a person wearing 2 hats be consider unbias??
why all our union secretary need to be ppl from the PAP.
first lim boon heng now lim swee say.
i like lim swee say because i think is he a heartlander ppl who will think for the lower educated.
what we are trying to say, union might be doing a good job now, it would be better if all union leader leave the political scene and focus on the union role.
we are not asking to be following korean labour union. but by the way, which country who has a strong labour union are not doing well economically?
korean , HK, australia, japan??
hey, strong labour movement doesnt mean all affect the development of the economy if manage properly.
if time all union leaders and union members to wake up their idea.
by the way, im non union. im not looking to join one. just feel sad for the blue collar worker who are manupulated by the poor leadership of their respective labour union. -
You are making a baseless accusation against me ! I am going to call my lawyer !
As you say it, you are not a union member. Who are you to judge then ? When recruiting new members, we always tell them, dun be a free loader, the more ppl to join the stronger the union, dun let others fight the battle for you.
If the crime rate in SG is rising, is it the problem of the police or the firefighters ? I think you are confusing issues here.
Thats my last post for the thread. I dun wish to continue in a pointless debate. -
tspg, i remember someone was forced out of the union movement because he was a member of the opposition...
see that happening to the PAP members? i have not... -
Haiz .... I tot thats my last post.Originally posted by the Bear:tspg, i remember someone was forced out of the union movement because he was a member of the opposition...
see that happening to the PAP members? i have not...
Maybe we should look at why he was forced out instead of looking at his party affilations. If he is the trouble maker type like Chee or that pilot from Alpha S, then I dun think any would be surprised that he is forced out. -
alpha S?
you mean the roger fella?
what did he do wrong?Originally posted by tspg:Haiz .... I tot thats my last post.
Maybe we should look at why he was forced out instead of looking at his party affilations. If he is the trouble maker type like Chee or that pilot from Alpha S, then I dun think any would be surprised that he is forced out. -
He was a stumbling block in the negotiation between Alpha S and SIA .The other unions have accept the paycuts and other measures to help SIA tide around. The pilots of Alpha S refuse to do so and he was the one inciting them. If the pilots were to go on strike, the repurcussion will not only be felt in SIA, but throughout SG economy.Originally posted by the Bear:alpha S?
you mean the roger fella?
what did he do wrong? -
so, are you saying that we should accept being taken for a ride by our union leaders who tell us that we must be happy being financially sodomised?
oh, fyi, the AUPE "union leaders" and their families went to Perth for their "retreat"... i know coz someone i know went on that "working trip"...Originally posted by tspg:He was a stumbling block in the negotiation between Alpha S and SIA .The other unions have accept the paycuts and other measures to help SIA tide around. The pilots of Alpha S refuse to do so and he was the one inciting them. If the pilots were to go on strike, the repurcussion will not only be felt in SIA, but throughout SG economy. -
Never like pilot union. Earn so much and still always complain they earn not enough. And it has happen in so many airlines that these pilots are willing to go on strike just for their own sake, allowing the airline to lose millions of dollars EVERYDAY just to get more $$ for themselves.Originally posted by the Bear:alpha S?
you mean the roger fella?
what did he do wrong?
Below is a famous quote from United Airline pilot union when United Airline tries to negotiate with their pilot union telling them not to kill the golden goose which lays the egg. At that time, united airline has already filed for bankruptcy protection (Chapter 11).
"We don't want to kill the golden goose. We just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg." - united airline pilot union. -
My stand is based on the role of the union as a whole. In that aspect I feel that the union has done a good job. If people want to criticise individuals, it is not fair to point finger at the entire union.Originally posted by the Bear:so, are you saying that we should accept being taken for a ride by our union leaders who tell us that we must be happy being financially sodomised?
oh, fyi, the AUPE "union leaders" and their families went to Perth for their "retreat"... i know coz someone i know went on that "working trip"...
If you have other juicy bits of gossip to share, feel free to air them here.
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here's the thing.. the union there, i feel, failed the members.. the members then have the right to throw out the exco...
if i read rightly, they've lost that right?Originally posted by tspg:My stand is based on the role of the union as a whole. In that aspect I feel that the union has done a good job. If people want to criticise individuals, it is not fair to point finger at the entire union.
If you have other juicy bits of gossip to share, feel free to air them here.