Nicoll Highway Collapse Investigation
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After reading the newspaper report on the first day of investigation, I am sad for the deceased families that the concerned parties are shifting blame to each other and not really focused in finding out the root cause of the collapse.
It takes both hands to clap.
Therefore, it is clearly not the fault of ONE sole party.
The contractors will take the major part of the responsibility for the flawed design.
It would also require the authorisation of LTA to perform the work.
So, if I am the judge or the lawyer involved, I will have a big headache in passing the verdict.
I pray for the investigation committee have the wisdom and courage to finding out the real truth and in performing the purnishment. -
When I see the headlines, I was saying to myself, "Here to the first round of finger pointing"
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If forumites might still remember, Today newspaper published a report a few days after the Nicol accident, on a reader's comment (myself) to the following effect: Due to presence of marine clay and dewatering taking place, whole surrounding surrounding road and bridges will be affected by subsidence and as a result acting as if they are a whole structure weighing in on the retaining wall.
LTA should have asked contractors concerned to produce full calculations to show how a simple retaining wall could possibly underpin such an inordinate combination of total weights of surrounding roads and bridges. It is crucial that any such lack of foreseeing of this type of problem be uncovered too by the inquiry.
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The judge will surely side the LTA,becoz its a government sector.This morning the newspaper already keep taking side of the LTA liao.Sucks right?
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Confirm LTA will win this lawsuit. LTA belongs to government.
Wait a minute....LTA did get fined few years back regarding the LRT incident?? -
both side will kena one lah.. then government will come out say u see ... LTA u notti notti i also fine u... government very fair one hor...
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let's wait to see who pays at the end...
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i think the more important role of the committee is not to aportion blame and to punish, but to ensure that lessons are learnt to ensure that similar incidents do not occur again in future.Originally posted by Medicated Oil:After reading the newspaper report on the first day of investigation, I am sad for the deceased families that the concerned parties are shifting blame to each other and not really focused in finding out the root cause of the collapse.
It takes both hands to clap.
Therefore, it is clearly not the fault of ONE sole party.
The contractors will take the major part of the responsibility for the flawed design.
It would also require the authorisation of LTA to perform the work.
So, if I am the judge or the lawyer involved, I will have a big headache in passing the verdict.
I pray for the investigation committee have the wisdom and courage to finding out the real truth and in performing the purnishment. -
my thoughts:
Line all the parties up; everyone!!
ask them one by one > touch your heart and soul > are you guilty!!
I bet all say guilty!!!!
but alas we live in the world of imperfection, lies and deception are here to stay.
regards -
ultimately LTA wins, but internally somebody's head there will roll probably the team who awarded the tender, that's the way it's always been.Originally posted by sans-culotte:Confirm LTA will win this lawsuit. LTA belongs to government.
Wait a minute....LTA did get fined few years back regarding the LRT incident??
then they have "lessons learned" commitee to satisfy the public after that they will become more kiasu, every project phase in future with contractor must sign countless indemnity forms or something like that.
what's new -
Did you guys noticed that it was only after the collapse of the Nicoll highway that BCA/LTA made the decision to suspend several tunnel projects. Therefore is goes to show that those engineers are sitting on their arse doing nothing..
And when something like this happen, they just come out and point their fingers at the contractors.
From my observation, the bottom line is still cost....if LTA has been more realistic and generous about their budget, I think this incident wont have happen..
As we all know the cost of buidling material, such as steel and cements has gone up so much so fast, therefore you cant blame the contractor to try to save on material cost.
Just take a look at the construction industry now...how many of them are actually make profits...? consider this, dont you think the LTA or even HDB havent doing their homework to do the costing for the project they have awarded to their contractors? -
maybe LTA has not pay full attention to the cost factor..but as a company..be it a goverment sector or private sector..when u are giving out a project for contractors to do...normally the lowest price will really attractive u ..if u are saying that the contractors are earning nth over the hdb or tunnel construction...than why in the first place they did not make out a gd cost factor...instead of cutting short in this and that...just to get the bid..i would say both are in the fault ba..for this incident .
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Point of Observation:
This is not the first time that the company with the lowest bidding price winning a government project.
We have already seen cases of company going bankrupt after obtaining government projects.
It also involved the government in monitoring the integrity of the project, not just the time schedule.
But, sad to say, the MOST important factor, SAFETY, is neglected.
As more evidence prevails, it will be obvious that the collapse is probably not caused by accident, but by human ignorance and delay in reaction to meet schedule.
The collapse happened as a wake-up call.
I hope the right party is woken up. -
i do not wish to comment on the tender system.Originally posted by Medicated Oil:Point of Observation:
This is not the first time that the company with the lowest bidding price winning a government project.
We have already seen cases of company going bankrupt after obtaining government projects.
It also involved the government in monitoring the integrity of the project, not just the time schedule.
But, sad to say, the MOST important factor, SAFETY, is neglected.
As more evidence prevails, it will be obvious that the collapse is probably not caused by accident, but by human ignorance and delay in reaction to meet schedule.
The collapse happened as a wake-up call.
I hope the right party is woken up.
but i agree that the culture of safety is somehow not apparent.
there seems, in place, a sense of complacency - that "nothing will happen" attitude. and i fear that this sense of invulnerability permeates not just in that particular incident but within society in general.
a result of over-reliance of the authorities? waiting for instructions? lack of initiative? the go-through-motion attitude?
yes indeed it is a wake up call. i think destiny has been kind that there were only 4 mortal casualties - there could have been more. -
In a public sector design and build contract, the main contractor for Nicole Highway MRT circle line should have undertaken the following:-
(1) Submitting all design development in detailed shop drawings with evaluations and soil investigation tests to the requirements of LTA.
(2) Compliance with all site and soil conditions in carrying out the works.
(3) Warranting the design to meet all conditions, adequacy, suitability and integrity.
LTA should have obtained all these shop drawings and soil reports and method statements and endorsed its consent before proceeding with works.
Did report show presence of prevalent marine clay. How much quantities of water will be drained out from the surrounding and how dewatering will affect the subsidence of surrounding roads and bridges causing the whole roads and bridge structures to weigh in our the retaining wall below the excavated site.
If design and build contract is to be administered according to the contractual terms and conditions then there is no possibility of overlooking the need to strengthen the retaining wall sufficiently to prevent massive loading from the subsided roads and bridges or other structures.
The inquiry needs to be holistic and look at the big picture as well as the small picture at foremen and supervisors' level to get to the truths. Regards.
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If this were really a democratic nation... someone has to take the fall... but we've not heard of any minister leaving the office out of shame for what they did...
Why only now do they mentioned that they have found faults with Nishimatsu's designs since way back in like 2001? If this is true, why was nothing done?
If you ask me, this is the main body to blame is LTA. Lets just picture this, this project does not belong to Nishimatsu, they are only the contractors... Where is the logic that if project goes on smoothly and LTA gets to make all the bucks by the end of the day and if the project has some glitch, they do not shoulder the responsibility?
When LTA hands over the project to be done by the contractors, its just like you'll put your child in the hands of the baby-sitter. If you'd cared for your child, you'll monitor the baby-sitter, and not wait till when your child is hurt or dies then you blame the baby-sitter only, would you?
Why hadn't the authorities carried out random checks on these contractors and ensuring that the jobs done correctly and in the safety of all....sigh....what can we say, except that the authorities do fail us one too many times. -
If LTA is FINE it like just from pocket A go to pocket B.
The system is wrong from the start of tender for the project.
Domino effect in play now, one leads to another, who pays for it? Those who are no longer around and the one still left behind.
Who gain? Really I dun give a damn today. 'They' can gain all they want. -
Can some one explain to me so what if LTA get fined $10m ?
Where does LTA get its $$$
Raise more funds by increasing Road Tax and COE and other innovative schemes?
Are we going to see heads roll ? Or just transfer to another government department ? -
Potential candidate to shoulder all the responsibilty = The engineer that commited suicide and the engineer that died in the collapse.
They will be "responsible" for not performing sufficient inspections and check on the site design.
No head will roll.
We have the WORLD lowest rate of INDUSTRY ACCIDENT !!!!
Come on, we have the lowest record of injury so we should not be purnished.
We should be given a medal for keeping that records.
Maybe Singapore should put their name in the Guiness World of Lowest Industry Accident Award ! -
then what makes you think the Japanese worksites has accidents every other day?Originally posted by Medicated Oil:Potential candidate to shoulder all the responsibilty = The engineer that commited suicide and the engineer that died in the collapse.
They will be "responsible" for not performing sufficient inspections and check on the site design.
No head will roll.
We have the WORLD lowest rate of INDUSTRY ACCIDENT !!!!
Come on, we have the lowest record of injury so we should not be purnished.
We should be given a medal for keeping that records.
Maybe Singapore should put their name in the Guiness World of Lowest Industry Accident Award !
come one.. this poll S.H.I.T are just bodies that the bloody authority pays to "survey" and don't you think they'll definitely be biased towards the salary payer? -
Forumites might still remember the Hotel New World collapse, where 33 persons were killed when the whole building collapsed due to malpractices and lack of supervision of building processes.
The Minister promised to leave no stone unturned and take thorough measures to prevent another accident. A committee of inquiry was also set up to establish the cause of the collapse and recommend preventive measures to avoid future occurrences.
MOM/MND/LTA/BCA were charged with responsibilities to prevent similar accidents or collapses as recommended by Committee of Inquiry whose report was widely hailed as the final solution to check on sporadic site safety problems.
Since Hotel New World collapse, have we improved our worksite safety. There were many more structural collapses such as collapses of veranda in Toa Payoh factory and many more.
In view of repeated work site and building failures, isn't it time again to re-examine the efficiency and effectiveness of our BCA/LTA/MOM/MND in overseeing and preventing further accidents.
Will public projects like MRT lines come under strict supervision? Perhaps, doable work processes should be set up in Department Report (Enforcement)/Work Processes as suggested in "HOW TO DO IT" posting. Without doable processes, can policies or measures really be implemented consistently and successfully. Just my humble opinion. Regards to all.