Is SDP anti-Singapore ?
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Do we need an opposition like them ?
Read what they post on there website and decide for yourself.
http://www.singaporedemocrat.org/index.php?id=headlines.html -
Better not. Seem to catch some virus from there lor.
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Originally posted by tspg:
After declaring yourself as a member of the NSP, do we need you to develop and worsen further the inter-opposition politiking in this sgForums ?
Do we need an opposition like them ?
Read what they post on there website and decide for yourself.
http://www.singaporedemocrat.org/index.php?id=headlines.html
Is the effort of the Opposition Party not weaken enough that we need you to make the current fractious inter-Opposition Parties relationship to be further worsened and perpetuated in this sgForums ?
If all Opposition Parties are expected to be agreeable to the policies of the Ruling Party, so as to be loyal to Singapore, then all the Opposition Parties might as well close their operations and the members may as well join the Ruling Party.
Incidentally, opposing the Ruling Party does not mean being disloyal to Singapore.
Are you mature enough to be in politics ?
As stated in one of my replies to your other threads, it is time for Opposition Parties to amalgamate and form stronger and larger entities to compete with a monolithic organization such as the Ruling Party - (much like the mergers of Singapore Banks to be bigger entities to face the challenges of foreign banks). -
CREATING TROUBLE AND CHAOS
IN THE NAME OF DEMORCRACY
HOW NOBLE -
Originally posted by tspg:
Too long under the strong and intolerant rule of a Single Political Party, has imbued Singaporeans with the same intolerance towards different opinions and views.
[b]CREATING TROUBLE AND CHAOS
IN THE NAME OF DEMORCRACY
HOW NOBLE [/b]
In a democracy, PLURALITY and DIVERSITY are the characteristic.
Why equate such differences in views and opinions as 'creating trouble and chaos' ?
Is trouble brewing ?
Is chaos evident here ?
Why chicken out and not hold your position, and put your views to a test ?
If you cannot stand the heat in the sgForums, can you stand up to the heat put on you, if you ever enter Parliament ? -
sdp website dangerous got malicious code. stay away.
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If you have an Anti-Virus programme, most of the virus will have been removed, or quarantined.Originally posted by noel:sdp website dangerous got malicious code. stay away. -
Originally posted by tspg:
For those who are afraid to enter the virus infected website, here is one of the articles extracted from the stated SDP site:
Do we need an opposition like them ?
Read what they post on there website and decide for yourself.
http://www.singaporedemocrat.org/index.php?id=headlines.html
The glorious years according to Mr Goh II
17 August 2004
Far away on another planet, a former leader of a country called Singapore celebrated the end of his reign, claiming his 14-year tenure as a “glorious” one. Curiously, there was another country also by the name of Singapore on planet earth. This former leader, Mr Goh Chok Tong, seemed to have confused the two.
One dead giveaway was his claim that under his leadership, Singapore had become a “kinder and gentler” place. The Singapore that earthling Singaporeans are familiar with could not be any more different.
Not even close
For example, it was reported that a family had to “bathe in [a] public toilet because the water supply had been reduced to a trickle and the electricity disconnected” because the occupant of the flat, a retrenched worker, a Ms Dilaram, said: “I have no money even to buy candles.” (ST, Apr 12, 2003)
The government’s response? “Power supply is not a welfare organization,” said former DPM and current PM Lee Hsien Loong. (ST, Mar 13, 2003)
As if competing to outdo each other on the meanness scale, Minister Lim Hng Kiang said that for Singaporeans “older than 60, with no income, or are from families with incomes below $1000" their subsidies for “overstaying” in a hospital would be cut off. "If these patients want to treat hospitals like a hotel,” he snorted, “then they'll have to be charged hotel rates." (ST, March 1, 2002)
Mr Lim was on a roll. A couple of months later he declared that he regretted an intervention he made to admit a prematurely born baby into KKH because “the baby continued to be in intensive care, and KKH now runs a bill of more than $300,000." (ST, May 21, 2002) If this is kinder and gentler, we hate to see what cold and pragmatic means.
In 2003, “more than 3,000 Singaporeans have applied for a government assistance scheme in the first two weeks of the year...but no one has qualified." (ST, Jan 26, 2003)
With ministers showing how tough they can be, Mr Goh Chok Tong had to polish up his hard side lest he be pushed out of his leadership role: "...the PAP is not going to become soft and effete under my leadership. If the party were getting soft underneath, you can be sure I would not be here talking to you. I would be pushed out." (Asiaweek, 2000)
Opening up?
Mr Goh claims that under his rule, political and civil space has opened up. How? Let us count the ways.
In 1999, Mr GohÂ’s government scanned the computers of nearly half the Internet subscribers in Singapore without their knowledge ostensibly to determine if the systems are vulnerable to hacker attacks. (South China Morning Post, May 1, 1999)
Two years later, the government ordered a popular website, Sintercom, to register as a political website. Sintercom refused and decided to close down instead. (Reuters, July 18, 2001) A few years later, another think-tank, Roundtable, disbanded. (ST, Apr 13, 2004)
Not long after, Mr Goh passed a law forbidding campaigning over the Internet and barring the publication of opinion polls during a general election. (Reuters, August 13, 2001) He even prohibited the use of short message service to send political messages during elections!
Under his watch election boundary redrawing reached new heights (think Marine Parade GRC and Braddell Heights). He introduced the Political Donations Act, which in effect killed off any meaningful funding for the opposition. He threatened voters with HDB upgrading in 1997, gave them shares to convert to cash on the eve of polling in 2001, and increased the election deposit for election candidates further crippling the oppositionÂ’s ability to compete in elections.
All this resulted in the number of opposition candidates at an all-time low in the 2001 GE. (2001 walkover 66.8%, 1997 walkover 59.3%, 1991 walkover 49.9%). (http://www.singapore-elections.com/)
But why should we be surprised? Mr Goh boasted: “I believe we have found a good way to keep Singapore going, and Singaporeans have accepted it. They don't buy the line that you must have an opposition in Parliament." (ST, Nov 4, 2001) Opening up?
Together with others in his party, Mr Goh sued and made bankrupt Messrs Tang Liang Hong and J. B. Jeyaretnam, and is in the process of doing the same to Dr Chee Soon Juan. He also took legal action against the International Herald Tribune and The Economist and prosecuted professor Christopher Lingle for an op-ed piece that the academic wrote. He detained Mr Robert Ho for his Internet posts and then later confiscated Mr HoÂ’s computer and investigated the internet activist for criminal defamation. The same treatment was meted out to another activist Zulfikar Mohd.
Application after application for permits to hold public gatherings made by groups such as the Open Singapore Centre, Think Centre, and the Fun Stage (drama group) were denied. Even an application to hold a public event to mark International Day Against Violence Against Women was turned down. (ST, Nov 22, 2003)
All this kindness and gentleness has had a lasting effect on the countryÂ’s youth: "Youths averse to disagree with Government...most of the 800 young Singaporeans in Singapore Polytechnic said they were uncomfortable doing so. In fact, only 14 per cent had no qualms speaking out. Apathy was the main reason...fear appeared to be another reason." (ST, Feb 26 2003)
As for Mr Goh being more consultative, “80 per cent...felt strongly that the Government was not willing to listen and consider differing views." (ST, June 19, 2002)
Advice from the old to the new
With such serious problems with Singapore’s economic and political systems, and the dismal state of people’s lives, one would imagine that the former prime minister would have important words of caution for the incoming one. Instead, all Mr Goh could impart was that “Loong” should wear more red shirts to soften his image. (National Day Rally speech, 2003)
Calling PAP leaders, you need to visit our Singapore a little more often. -
Ya, my virus scan caught a virus trying to sneak in too when I click on that link. Dangerous sia. Oei.... next time don't post sites with virus lah......also have to wonder why SDP website got virus one??!!Originally posted by noel:sdp website dangerous got malicious code. stay away.
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Originally posted by Qitai:
It is quite obvious that it is a conspiracy to sabotage the SDP site with a virus, so that all those anti-Ruling Party articles will not be accessible.
Ya, my virus scan caught a virus trying to sneak in too when I click on that link. Dangerous sia. Oei.... next time don't post sites with virus lah......also have to wonder why SDP website got virus one??!!
Just like you have been frightened off by the initial warning of the existence of a virus.
If you have an anti-virus software, it should be able to give you several options to handle the virus - quarantined it, delete it, or not to open that infected file. -
Staging a protest outside the Istana not troublemaking ?Originally posted by Atobe:Too long under the strong and intolerant rule of a Single Political Party, has imbued Singaporeans with the same intolerance towards different opinions and views.
In a democracy, PLURALITY and DIVERSITY are the characteristic.
Why equate such differences in views and opinions as 'creating trouble and chaos' ?
Is trouble brewing ?
Is chaos evident here ?
Why chicken out and not hold your position, and put your views to a test ?
If you cannot stand the heat in the sgForums, can you stand up to the heat put on you, if you ever enter Parliament ?
Fanning racial sentiments based on the Tudang issue is it not trying to create chaos ?
I have already hold back my punches.
I can easily kick your backside anytime in an open debate.
I just dun have the time to waste with low level irritants like you. -
Oei.... you veri kiang hor. So much conspiracy theory. Hate people who make baseless attacks. And how come you so comfortable with the virus there har? Virus you plant one izit??!!Originally posted by Atobe:It is quite obvious that it is a conspiracy to sabotage the SDP site with a virus, so that all those anti-Ruling Party articles will not be accessible.
Just like you have been frightened off by the initial warning of the existence of a virus.
If you have an anti-virus software, it should be able to give you several options to handle the virus - quarantined it, delete it, or not to open that infected file.
Gzee....looks like I am starting another round of flaming here. -
can i ask u 1 simply question,
if singapore state is truth as what SDP had said.
Will SDP do more better than PAP?
i know SDP had been press by PAP hard, but at least tell the singaporean what can they do ,not by complain here complain there. can they afford to give singaporean a good future plan? tell singaorean what to do to when facing the growth of china and india? NO right?!
to me , they are just people who like to pick the bone out of the egg but no plan can perfectly benefit to all people. -
Politics is monotonous. Its like advertising the same bullshit over and over again. Although it is non-constructive to put the flaws of the current leaders under a microscope; would'nt it be the same empty talk if they all seem to be able to tackle issues like unemployment, taxes, social security etc? The sdp website provides a good counterbalance to what is shown on the otherwise passive press and news coverage. It allows us to view our country from a different perspective.Originally posted by paperduck:can i ask u 1 simply question,
if singapore state is truth as what SDP had said.
Will SDP do more better than PAP?
i know SDP had been press by PAP hard, but at least tell the singaporean what can they do ,not by complain here complain there. can they afford to give singaporean a good future plan? tell singaorean what to do to when facing the growth of china and india? NO right?!
to me , they are just people who like to pick the bone out of the egg but no plan can perfectly benefit to all people. -
ya..i do agree.but just the part where "allows us to view our country from a different perspective." onlyOriginally posted by noel:Politics is monotonous. Its like advertising the same bullshit over and over again. Although it is non-constructive to put the flaws of the current leaders under a microscope; would'nt it be the same empty talk if they all seem to be able to tackle issues like unemployment, taxes, social security etc? The sdp website provides a good counterbalance to what is shown on the otherwise passive press and news coverage. It allows us to view our country from a different perspective. -
Originally posted by tspg:
It is surprising that being a member of the NSP, you should not be interested in defending the fundamental principles enshrined in the Constitution.
[b]Staging a protest outside the Istana not troublemaking ?
Fanning racial sentiments based on the Tudang issue is it not trying to create chaos ?
I have already hold back my punches.
I can easily kick your backside anytime in an open debate.
I just dun have the time to waste with low level irritants like you.
[/b]
Was there a protest outside the Istana, or was it an individual Singaporean exercising his right to make a speech anywhere in Singapore - which so happened to be at the main gate of the Istana ?
Rather unusual approach, but surely stupid to test the limits of the law, which itself is contradicting the fundamental principles stated so clearly and simply in the Singapore Constitution.
Making trouble ?
It looks more like exposing the mockery that the Ruling Party has made to the Constitution of Singapore.
Was a discussion to defend the rights of the Malay community - for their womenfolk to wear the TUDUNG (not TudAng) - an exercise to fan racism ?
Now I begin to wonder if all the rumours about the NSP being an offshoot of the PAP is true ? -
Originally posted by Qitai:
From your posting, it looks like you have alot more to learn about Life.
Oei.... you veri kiang hor. So much conspiracy theory. Hate people who make baseless attacks. And how come you so comfortable with the virus there har? Virus you plant one izit??!!
Gzee....looks like I am starting another round of flaming here.
If you are well prepared for virus attack, will you not be comfortable ?
It does not take too much intelligence to use a NORTON Anti-Virus software, and it is cheap to buy the Original Software.
Conspiracy theory ?
Who hijacked the original SDP website, after they had posted quite a few very informative articles that the Singapore Press Holding refused to publish any information that is not complimentary to the Ruling Party ?
Even with the change to a new website, somehow every article is infected with a virus ?
Surely, it is not too far fetched that there is a conspiracy to prevent any timid Singaporeans from venturing to open these articles in the SDP website ?
Perhaps your age makes you too naive and spend most of your time stuck to the Real Player in your PC, and neglect the Real World at large ? -
Originally posted by paperduck:
Who are you asking when you write: "can i ask u 1 simply question, " ?
can i ask u 1 simply question,
if singapore state is truth as what SDP had said.
Will SDP do more better than PAP?
i know SDP had been press by PAP hard, but at least tell the singaporean what can they do ,not by complain here complain there. can they afford to give singaporean a good future plan? tell singaorean what to do to when facing the growth of china and india? NO right?!
to me , they are just people who like to pick the bone out of the egg but no plan can perfectly benefit to all people.
If you want to know about the SDP agenda, perhaps it is best that you write to SDP, or attend their 'meet the people sessions', or simply buy one of the books written by the Secretary-General of the SDP (whom everybody loves to hate).
If you truly want to develop your open mind about politics, then read both sides of the issues brought up by the various Political Parties in Singapore. -
Good luck on your trust of your armours. I will admit I am timid.Originally posted by Atobe:If you are well prepared for virus attack, will you not be comfortable ?
It does not take too much intelligence to use a NORTON Anti-Virus software, and it is cheap to buy the Original Software.
Conspiracy theory ?
Who hijacked the original SDP website, after they had posted quite a few very informative articles that the Singapore Press Holding refused to publish any information that is not complimentary to the Ruling Party ?
Even with the change to a new website, somehow every article is infected with a virus ?
Surely, it is not too far fetched that there is a conspiracy to prevent any timid Singaporeans from venturing to open these articles in the SDP website ?
And this is my conspiracy theory.
SDP plant the virus on their article themselves and then claim PAP is doing it. They hope to discredit PAP by doing that. Also, the virus will actually try to send hate messages everywhere trying to create discontend in Singapore.
You got no proof right? I also don't have. But, let's see who's conspiracy theory is better.
Have fun. -
Originally posted by Qitai:
Congratulations on a very creative approach.
Good luck on your trust of your armours. I will admit I am timid.
And this is my conspiracy theory.
SDP plant the virus on their article themselves and then claim PAP is doing it. They hope to discredit PAP by doing that. Also, the virus will actually try to send hate messages everywhere trying to create discontend in Singapore.
You got no proof right? I also don't have. But, let's see who's conspiracy theory is better.
Have fun.
Perhaps one should ask: which will be more beneficial to SDP - allowing Singaporeans to access and read the many "hot articles" that Singapore Press Holdings refused to print; or gain sympathy based on your theory of "SDP planting virus onto their own websites and discredit PAP in the process" ?
Common sense will help to find the proof, and it is more telling when the Singapore Police do not seem to take any interest or any action to investigate the source of the virus attack.
If a similar virus attack should fall onto the PAP website, it will be a dead certainty that the Singapore Police will be taking a more serious attitude, and will be frantically chasing every lead to trace the source of the attack. -
Can you show me the police report and their responses? Like I said before - please show me proofs and figures. I have learn not to trust every information that is presented to me. And that is not restricted to you. Of course, I tend to doubt you more due to your actions so far in making tons of accusation without proofs.Originally posted by Atobe:Congratulations on a very creative approach.
Perhaps one should ask: which will be more beneficial to SDP - allowing Singaporeans to access and read the many "hot articles" that Singapore Press Holdings refused to print; or gain sympathy based on your theory of "SDP planting virus onto their own websites and discredit PAP in the process" ?
Common sense will help to find the proof, and it is more telling when the Singapore Police do not seem to take any interest or any action to investigate the source of the virus attack.
If a similar virus attack should fall onto the PAP website, it will be a dead certainty that the Singapore Police will be taking a more serious attitude, and will be frantically chasing every lead to trace the source of the attack.
Oh... are you even in Singapore? Posting such messages at around 2am? -
Originally posted by Qitai:
It is now 10:32a.m. and if you notice my postings also happened at all and any time of the day when I have access to a PC.
Can you show me the police report and their responses? Like I said before - please show me proofs and figures. I have learn not to trust every information that is presented to me. And that is not restricted to you. Of course, I tend to doubt you more due to your actions so far in making tons of accusation without proofs.
Oh... are you even in Singapore? Posting such messages at around 2am?
If you wish to see a copy of the Police Report, it will be recommended if you write to the SDP and enquire for one.
The problem with Singapore education is that everything is spoonfed, notes are printed and handed out, facts are focused to be learnt into memory, and little personal effort is encouraged to perform research and critical analysis.
Can you differentiate facts from fiction, even when they are before your eyes ?
Can you even understand what you have read in the print of my statement that caused you to react with a demand of proof ?
Asking for proof is not a way out of a debate. -
You post the accusation, not me. If I am the one posting the accusation, I will post the facts. I do not have any interest in understanding a party who I do not have good opinion of. So, I not going to spend my valuable time on them.Originally posted by Atobe:It is now 10:32a.m. and if you notice my postings also happened at all and any time of the day when I have access to a PC.
If you wish to see a copy of the Police Report, it will be recommended if you write to the SDP and enquire for one.
The problem with Singapore education is that everything is spoonfed, notes are printed and handed out, facts are focused to be learnt into memory, and little personal effort is encouraged to perform research and critical analysis.
Can you differentiate facts from fiction, even when they are before your eyes ?
Can you even understand what you have read in the print of my statement that caused you to react with a demand of proof ?
Asking for proof is not a way out of a debate.
By avoiding backing up what you claim to be true, you just lose creditability, at least to me. Of course, I probably matter little to you. So, you can continue with your accusation, but any information from you will be viewed with much suspicion by me.
There are too many people who just echo information given to them without verification and when repeated many times, it becomes as if it is a fact. Some of these information has later been proven to be false.
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Originally posted by Qitai:
Accusation ? How do you read a suggestion as an accusation ?
You post the accusation, not me. If I am the one posting the accusation, I will post the facts. I do not have any interest in understanding a party who I do not have good opinion of. So, I not going to spend my valuable time on them.
By avoiding backing up what you claim to be true, you just lose creditability, at least to me. Of course, I probably matter little to you. So, you can continue with your accusation, but any information from you will be viewed with much suspicion by me.
There are too many people who just echo information given to them without verification and when repeated many times, it becomes as if it is a fact. Some of these information has later been proven to be false.
Can a suggestion of a possible alternatvie way of looking at an event be tantamount to be an accusation ?
You certainly have some hang-ups that cause you to be so defensive. -
This is your accusation without proof.Originally posted by Atobe:Common sense will help to find the proof, and it is more telling when the Singapore Police do not seem to take any interest or any action to investigate the source of the virus attack.