Is SDP anti-Singapore ?
-
Originally posted by Qitai:
For someone who seems to live only when there is proof, and have the audacity to demand proof for a simple statement made by me, how do you justify making a statement without proof (highlighted in RED) ?
This is your accusation without proof.Originally posted by Qitai:
So from your suggestion of comparing conspiracy theories made by you and I, are you now demanding for proof to determine which theory is more real ?
Good luck on your trust of your armours. I will admit I am timid.
And this is my conspiracy theory.
SDP plant the virus on their article themselves and then claim PAP is doing it. They hope to discredit PAP by doing that. Also, the virus will actually try to send hate messages everywhere trying to create discontend in Singapore.
You got no proof right? I also don't have. But, let's see who's conspiracy theory is better.
Have fun.
Some very creatively quirky twist of events to gain a righteous position for yourself ? -
Didn't you read the title? Conspiracy Theory. Did I ever present it as a fact?
-
Originally posted by Qitai:
So you allow yourself the opportunity to make a speculative statement from a simple 'Conspiracy Theory' WITHOUT proof, but use a different standard of measure for others to prove their own point of view ?
Didn't you read the title? [b]Conspiracy Theory. Did I ever present it as a fact? [/b]
Very useful way of exchanging views. -
Difference is you use those unsubstantiated information to prove a point. I did not.Originally posted by Atobe:So you allow yourself the opportunity to make a speculative statement from a simple 'Conspiracy Theory' WITHOUT proof, but use a different standard of measure for others to prove their own point of view ?
Very useful way of exchanging views.
And if it wasn't clear to you, I am taunting you. Well, go ahead and accuse me of whatever you want in doing this. I will just admit I am not perfect and derive pleasure from taunting you. Happy?
Round 2> Personal Insult > Fight
-
Originally posted by Qitai:
What were you attempting to achieve in making statements without proof ?
Difference is you use those unsubstantiated information to prove a point. I did not.
And if it wasn't clear to you, I am taunting you. Well, go ahead and accuse me of whatever you want in doing this. I will just admit I am not perfect and derive pleasure from taunting you. Happy?
Round 2> Personal Insult > Fight
Were you not trying to make a point too ?
Speculation, speculation and more speculation.
A very odd way of taunting that seems to have started without agitation, and yet will end in an even more odd and childish way.
Is there any hope left for newbies in this sgForum ? -
If SDP wants to raise public awareness of certain issues, they can do so by other ways eg print flyers and distribute them at MRT stations.
When Chee went to protest in front of the Istana, he know the consequences and yet he still do it. In public eyes he is not a hero by an attention seeking wannabe like those taking part in the Singapore Idols. -
i don't they can print flyers of the issues they want to highlight, unless they want to get sued of courseOriginally posted by paperchicken:If SDP wants to raise public awareness of certain issues, they can do so by other ways eg print flyers and distribute them at MRT stations.
When Chee went to protest in front of the Istana, he know the consequences and yet he still do it. In public eyes he is not a hero by an attention seeking wannabe like those taking part in the Singapore Idols. -
If they have the basis of raising the issues why would they be scare of being sued ? Chee was willing to jail, why should he be scare to raise an issue. Unless of course he is doing so to seek attention.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:i don't they can print flyers of the issues they want to highlight, unless they want to get sued of course -
willing to go to jail? isn't that kind of mess up? whatever the reason is?Originally posted by paperchicken:If they have the basis of raising the issues why would they be scare of being sued ? Chee was willing to jail, why should he be scare to raise an issue. Unless of course he is doing so to seek attention. -
Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:
Although it may seem irrational, and to the extremes, Dr Chee Soon Juan may have several objectives in doing what he had done.
willing to go to jail? isn't that kind of mess up? whatever the reason is?
This maybe pure speculation but it could well be that he truly believe in demanding his Rights as indicated in the Singapore Constitution - how many Singaporean is even aware of what is granted by the Singapore Constitution, and willing to demand what is enshrined and granted in it ?
He could also be exposing the sham that the PAP leadership has woven, in putting to sleep the Political Rights that is available to Singaporeans.
While many Singaporeans will feel that Dr Chee may not even come close to some other famous Political Personalities - from South Africa (Nelson Mandela), India (Ghandi), Myanmar (Aung-San Su Chi), Ho Chi Minh (Vietnam) and other from all parts of the world - these named persons were severely prosecuted during their times, incarcerated for long periods.
All of these named personalities have made PERSONAL SACRIFICES, and were insignificant to the Ruling Elite even when some of them are heroes on the street, while others are locked up and their names unheard.
However, they all share a common trait in the struggle, by making self-sacrifices for the betterment of their fellow Citizens. -
Haha,some ppl are really funny,SDP or rather,all the other opposition parties are not given a chance to take over PAP and rule Singapore,how the hell can they do better than PAP?Take for instance,if u have a gun but dont have the chance to practise how to fire it,can u fire it well?Originally posted by paperduck:can i ask u 1 simply question,
if singapore state is truth as what SDP had said.
Will SDP do more better than PAP?
i know SDP had been press by PAP hard, but at least tell the singaporean what can they do ,not by complain here complain there. can they afford to give singaporean a good future plan? tell singaorean what to do to when facing the growth of china and india? NO right?!
to me , they are just people who like to pick the bone out of the egg but no plan can perfectly benefit to all people.
Same theory here,if SDP or other opposition parties dont have the chance take over PAP and rule Singapore,how can they do better than PAP? -
Great observation.Originally posted by drawer:Haha,some ppl are really funny,SDP or rather,all the other opposition parties are not given a chance to take over PAP and rule Singapore,how the hell can they do better than PAP?Take for instance,if u have a gun but dont have the chance to practise how to fire it,can u fire it well?
Same theory here,if SDP or other opposition parties dont have the chance take over PAP and rule Singapore,how can they do better than PAP?
The problem with Singaporeans is that they clamor for an Opposition, but demand higher standards to be imposed on the Opposition Members, while turning a blind eye to the low standards of politics that the Ruling Party practise against the Opposition.
Singaporeans desire to have an Alternative Party, but are afraid to set sail into a new direction.
Like the Captain of a ship, the Ruling Party can only set the directions for the country to move towards to, but it will be Singaporeans who must decide if they are prepared to listen to such instructions and co-operate to ensure the successful outcome of such instructions.
Similary, if an Opposition Party will ever succeed to form the next Government, it will be the Singapore People who will determine if the New Government will make it, or be broken by an ill disciplined and rebelleous Singapore Population against the New Government.
The next stage of success will depend on the ability of Singaporeans to be cohesive, and co-operative with the goals set by the Government - whether formed by the present Ruling Party, or by any other Opposition Party. -
You make me laugh you actually compare Chee to these great man. I think he is more like the joker spokesman for Saddam Hussein. Nothing but hot air dun know whats going on around him. still talking about victory when US forces are at the gates of Bagdad.Originally posted by Atobe:Although it may seem irrational, and to the extremes, Dr Chee Soon Juan may have several objectives in doing what he had done.
This maybe pure speculation but it could well be that he truly believe in demanding his Rights as indicated in the Singapore Constitution - how many Singaporean is even aware of what is granted by the Singapore Constitution, and willing to demand what is enshrined and granted in it ?
He could also be exposing the sham that the PAP leadership has woven, in putting to sleep the Political Rights that is available to Singaporeans.
While many Singaporeans will feel that Dr Chee may not even come close to some other famous Political Personalities - from South Africa (Nelson Mandela), India (Ghandi), Myanmar (Aung-San Su Chi), Ho Chi Minh (Vietnam) and other from all parts of the world - these named persons were severely prosecuted during their times, incarcerated for long periods.
All of these named personalities have made PERSONAL SACRIFICES, and were insignificant to the Ruling Elite even when some of them are heroes on the street, while others are locked up and their names unheard.
However, they all share a common trait in the struggle, by making self-sacrifices for the betterment of their fellow Citizens. -
Originally posted by paperchicken:
The sad part of history, and with the benefit of hindsight - if you will note, is that some of these great Men in history were scoffed and laughed at by the people of their times, for the very eccentric behavior that they have displayed.
You make me laugh you actually compare Chee to these great man. I think he is more like the joker spokesman for Saddam Hussein. Nothing but hot air dun know whats going on around him. still talking about victory when US forces are at the gates of Bagdad.
Jesus was laughed at by his fellow Jews for claiming to be the Son of God.
Mahatma Gandi was scoffed at by his fellow-nationalists for being docile and not aggressive enough in the battle for India's independence, and prepared to be jailed for even adopting a pacifist approach against the British Colonial Government. He was finally assassinated by another Indian nationalist, who disagreed with his pacifist methods.
Nelson Mandela and Au-sang Su chi must have received scorn from some sectors of their community, who DO NOT appreciate their social and political agitative actions in disrupting the status quo that is prevailing during their time and moment of history.
In any society or community, there will always be persons seen to be different, and will be labelled as eccentrics and characters with aberrations in their principles that make them different from the general public, and which will move them to actions that are shunned by "normal" people.
"NORMAL" people exist in every society and community, and are generally more timid, and perhaps with a sense of realism based on material standards and not on lofty and abstract principles concerning Political Rights and Freedom.
While Chee may not be liked by all Singaporeans, and may not be comparable to such historical luminaires - (as those were also scorned during their own lifetime by their own peers); a time may come during a moment of Singapore's History, when political, social and economic events may change, and a "window of opportunity" or "change in circumstances " may result in a ground swell of public disgust towards existing authority structures, which may result in Chee's actions gaining recognition and acceptance.
Good luck to Chee, his personal standards and principles, that caused him to behave and make actions as he has preferred to take - which are different from "NORMAL" Singaporeans.
Let us not scorn him, after all, his effort is to break the monopoly of the iron grip that the Ruling Party has placed on Singapore Life. -
There is nothing wrong with his goals just the way he go about achieving it. He should not go about achieving his goals at the expense of destabalising the country.Originally posted by Atobe:The sad part of history, and with the benefit of hindsight - if you will note, is that some of these great Men in history were scoffed and laughed at by the people of their times, for the very eccentric behavior that they have displayed.
Jesus was laughed at by his fellow Jews for claiming to be the Son of God.
Mahatma Gandi was scoffed at by his fellow-nationalists for being docile and not aggressive enough in the battle for India's independence, and prepared to be jailed for even adopting a pacifist approach against the British Colonial Government. He was finally assassinated by another Indian nationalist, who disagreed with his pacifist methods.
Nelson Mandela and Au-sang Su chi must have received scorn from some sectors of their community, who DO NOT appreciate their social and political agitative actions in disrupting the status quo that is prevailing during their time and moment of history.
In any society or community, there will always be persons seen to be different, and will be labelled as eccentrics and characters with aberrations in their principles that make them different from the general public, and which will move them to actions that are shunned by "normal" people.
"NORMAL" people exist in every society and community, and are generally more timid, and perhaps with a sense of realism based on material standards and not on lofty and abstract principles concerning Political Rights and Freedom.
While Chee may not be liked by all Singaporeans, and may not be comparable to such historical luminaires - (as those were also scorned during their own lifetime by their own peers); a time may come during a moment of Singapore's History, when political, social and economic events may change, and a "window of opportunity" or "change in circumstances " may result in a ground swell of public disgust towards existing authority structures, which may result in Chee's actions gaining recognition and acceptance.
Good luck to Chee, his personal standards and principles, that caused him to behave and make actions as he has preferred to take - which are different from "NORMAL" Singaporeans.
Let us not scorn him, after all, his effort is to break the monopoly of the iron grip that the Ruling Party has placed on Singapore Life. -
Originally posted by paperchicken:
Great that we are able to come to a common ground.
There is nothing wrong with his goals just the way he go about achieving it. He should not go about achieving his goals at the expense of destabalising the country.
However, can ONE MAN and his goals DESTABILISE a Country that is ruled by a strong hand of the Government, with a strong Internal Security Department, working with an iron clad Internal Security Act that gives the Government omnipotent powers to arbitrarily confine anyone that can be a political threat to their position ?
This propaganda - of different thinking can destabilise a country - has been perpetuated by the Ruling Party, so as to allow themselves to be the ONLY Political Party to continue to rule Singapore.
The continued thinking along this line can only result in the present state of malaise in the political, social and economic spheres that we are now experiencing in Singapore. -
It takes only a spark to start a fire.Originally posted by Atobe:Great that we are able to come to a common ground.
However, can ONE MAN and his goals DESTABILISE a Country that is ruled by a strong hand of the Government, with a strong Internal Security Department, working with an iron clad Internal Security Act that gives the Government omnipotent powers to arbitrarily confine anyone that can be a political threat to their position ?
This propaganda - of different thinking can destabilise a country - has been perpetuated by the Ruling Party, so as to allow themselves to be the ONLY Political Party to continue to rule Singapore.
The continued thinking along this line can only result in the present state of malaise in the political, social and economic spheres that we are now experiencing in Singapore.
World War I began with the assassination in Sarajevo organized by Serb nationalists.
Just look at the way Chee handled the tudung issue. -
aiya..i tell you'll who wanna condemn PAP..the best way to let this powerful PAP fell is, find a group of "jing ying" and join PAP ..after 10year or so..if 1 heng heng make to PM..he then change PAP to a playground of corruption.
from the EXP from KMT by "lee deng hui"
we need a peaceful place to live. and i think PAP is doing good enough..of-cos there are room for improvement .
people who think PAP are evil..ask most woman, old people and listen how they love PAP.
people who have voice as SDP...i think about 15% like that only. -
Wait a minute here,PAP is already a playground of corruption.Look at the way they invest other countries like know how to "print money" like that,even fail also nevermind!And lend money to other countries without consulting parliament,who other country's leader has such capabilities?And i do respect Lee Deng Hui,although his party lose in the general election,but he lead Taiwan to democracy and earn the respect of the Taiwanese,look at how his ppl address him,they are full of respect in general!And from those ppl i know,including women,old man,they dont like PAP at all......perhaps i have known the wrong ppl lol!Originally posted by paperduck:aiya..i tell you'll who wanna condemn PAP..the best way to let this powerful PAP fell is, find a group of "jing ying" and join PAP ..after 10year or so..if 1 heng heng make to PM..he then change PAP to a playground of corruption.
from the EXP from KMT by "lee deng hui"
we need a peaceful place to live. and i think PAP is doing good enough..of-cos there are room for improvement .
people who think PAP are evil..ask most woman, old people and listen how they love PAP.
people who have voice as SDP...i think about 15% like that only.
-
haha..pls check the dictionary and define what the meaning of "corruption".Originally posted by drawer:Wait a minute here,PAP is already a playground of corruption.Look at the way they invest other countries like know how to "print money" like that,even fail also nevermind!And lend money to other countries without consulting parliament,who other country's leader has such capabilities?And i do respect Lee Deng Hui,although his party lose in the general election,but he lead Taiwan to democracy and earn the respect of the Taiwanese,look at how his ppl address him,they are full of respect in general!And from those ppl i know,including women,old man,they dont like PAP at all......perhaps i have known the wrong ppl lol!
and same to the word "invest" .. do u clap ur hand when Singtel success in Optus? invest dont mean 100% sure profit..
btw if u hate PAP govt that much..no matter what good PAP have done..meaningless to you also. -
SG never lend any money it only pledge to borrow. Because the were too many conditions Indonesia borrow from elsewhere.Originally posted by drawer:Wait a minute here,PAP is already a playground of corruption.Look at the way they invest other countries like know how to "print money" like that,even fail also nevermind!And lend money to other countries without consulting parliament,who other country's leader has such capabilities?And i do respect Lee Deng Hui,although his party lose in the general election,but he lead Taiwan to democracy and earn the respect of the Taiwanese,look at how his ppl address him,they are full of respect in general!And from those ppl i know,including women,old man,they dont like PAP at all......perhaps i have known the wrong ppl lol! -
The KMT do not respect LDH for he betrayed the party, the very same party who put him as the first president of ROC; taiwanese from the other provinces, the wai shen ren, hate him because LDH together with ah bian were tearing taiwan society apart; the ruling party need him only to add on extra votes but ah bian and ah lian wants to stay far far away from him; the Chinese all over the world despise LDH because betrayed ROC and everybody knows he was ready to run to Japan if anything goes wrong, he even has a japanese name!Originally posted by drawer:Wait a minute here,PAP is already a playground of corruption.Look at the way they invest other countries like know how to "print money" like that,even fail also nevermind!And lend money to other countries without consulting parliament,who other country's leader has such capabilities?And i do respect Lee Deng Hui,although his party lose in the general election,but he lead Taiwan to democracy and earn the respect of the Taiwanese,look at how his ppl address him,they are full of respect in general!And from those ppl i know,including women,old man,they dont like PAP at all......perhaps i have known the wrong ppl lol!
surely there are still some who stay close to LDH, but respect?? a person who betrayed his party and his country?? you have certainly heard from the wrong ppl. -
Let the opposition parties rule Singapore to find out if they can do better? it is like asking a kid to fire a gun to see if he knows how to use a gun. What if he only knows how to pull the trigger but does not know how to aim? what if he is not strong enough to control the recoil? somebody else get shot! If the opposition fails, who suffer? the ppl.Originally posted by drawer:Wait a minute here,PAP is already a playground of corruption.Look at the way they invest other countries like know how to "print money" like that,even fail also nevermind!And lend money to other countries without consulting parliament,who other country's leader has such capabilities?And i do respect Lee Deng Hui,although his party lose in the general election,but he lead Taiwan to democracy and earn the respect of the Taiwanese,look at how his ppl address him,they are full of respect in general!And from those ppl i know,including women,old man,they dont like PAP at all......perhaps i have known the wrong ppl lol!
The opposition need to show better alternatives, how they can do better. The ppl of singapore are not stupid. Voting for the opposition is to keep PAP in check. You can say they are using the opposition to ensure that PAP perform. But don for a moment believe that ppl want an opposition just for a change. As it is, the opposition parties are not cooperative, they do not have enough ppl to contest in all constituencies, many only work just before elections. If oppositions want to win votes just by running down PAP, they have to do a lot more. Mind you, PAP is not stupid, they know how to lure ppl to join their party.
We have also seen many opposition members ran away and lived comfortably in australia and US, after their bids in elections failed. In this aspect, ppl like Dr. Chee and Jaya remain credible opposition because they continue to stay in singapore to fight.
Even if PAP were truely rotton, we want to be sure that the opposition who take over would not be more rotton when they have the power.
Giving the opposition a free trial of ruling of singapore just to see if they can do better? this is probably just the wet dreams of some politicians wanting to become president or PM. -
the rest i agree with but not jesusOriginally posted by Atobe:The sad part of history, and with the benefit of hindsight - if you will note, is that some of these great Men in history were scoffed and laughed at by the people of their times, for the very eccentric behavior that they have displayed.
Jesus was laughed at by his fellow Jews for claiming to be the Son of God. -
Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:
What do you not agree with that was written about Jesus ?
the rest i agree with but not jesus
The fact remains that He was laughed at by His fellow Jews when He dare to claim to be the Son of God, and to save the Jews from hell ?
Or simply the similarities with Singaporeans laughing at Dr Chee for trying to get Singaporeans to believe that he is a Singapore Son, and suitable to be a candidate to represent Singaporeans ?