Mettle of Tears
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Lim Swee Say, being in charge of badminton, probably spent lots of time with Susilo. Lim probably saw how hard Susilo had worked and prepared....the relationship and therefore feeling for each other are certainly stronger and not felt by outsiders. If there are feelings, then an expression of feeling can include shedding a tear or two. He may not be disappointed with the loss of the game, but felt sad for Susilo. So, must he only feel inside the heart meh?Originally posted by edseeker31:Mr Lim Swee Say driven to tears when Ronald Susilo loses out in the Badminton event.
It was such a turn-off when I saw on T.V this chap standing at one corner wiping his tears when Susilo loses. Makes you wonder, if he's crying because he'll lose his job next year... or that he'd bet on Susilo winning and he's losing his bet? Or is he only a sissy......
In the first place, does anyone know if this Susilo chap is a true-bred Singaporean. He speaks more like an Indon.
Imagine, as a minister, if he cannot even take the loss of a game, how can we put our fate and well-being in their hands. How can we trust that they can bring us to better heights? For all the monies we're paying them for their salary, can they only cry when meets with a loss?
sigh.... I'm beginning to lose more and more faith in them. I don't think we get this sight when Lao Lee was in power, do we? Or is it only because Jnr Lee cannot control his men?
Then you have the cameraman, always ready to catch moment like this. If you have the taiwanese TV crew here, they will probably be able to catch a picture of a minister who forgot to zip his pants. Then what? can we put our fate in a minister who can forget to zip his pants.....??
Your speculation of the reason is amusing, 'Lim may lose his job, might have lost his bet'... but your inference is rather ludicrous.. 'Jnr Lee cannot control his men..' since when Jnr or Snr Lee control the expression of emotion by the ministers, can or cannot, where and when to shed tears?? Do you really expect LHL to control the ministers...(and the nation?) to that extent?
You sound like a true-bred Singaporean, but I din know anybody would put their fate and well being in Lim Swee Say or any minister as an individual. The well being of Singapore was never dependent on lao lee alone as there were Goh KS, Toh CC, Raja....., neither have we depended on GCT alone, and now certainly not just on LHL but the whole cabinet, the system, and the opposition to a certain extent, isn't it?
Ministers, politicians...are human beings and are therefore entitled to laugh, cry, shit in their pants.......but not all human beings are ministers, therefore we do not know if Lim Swee Say, besides shedding tears, has decided to do anything more to help bring our badminton to a higher level, like how to have more susilo. I guess at this moment, this is the appropriate and relevant question to ask Lim, if we have lost our faith in him.
Come to think of it, if Lim cried just because Susilo lost one game, and we lose faith in Lim just because he shed one or two drops of tears....are we all not taking things out of proportion?? sigh..... -
Is the status of being a Singaporean not being defined by the granting of citizenship? Are the granting of citizenship for sportpersons not in line with our national policy? Among us, is there a special kind of citizen called the 'true-bred' singaporean?Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:I am jsut answering him is he a true bred singaporean...tell me is he?? pls lah...if billgates migrate to singapore...then is he a true bred singaporean?? need years lah my fren..sometimes decades and generations. He fight for money or he fight for nation?? No money u think he will come over?? there are some ppl who can fight for the nation ( the army) even by sacrificing thier life. He is not up to that "loving " lvl yet.
True-bred singaporean, a bumiputra mentality???
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well said... well said...Originally posted by sgdiehard:Lim Swee Say, being in charge of badminton, probably spent lots of time with Susilo. Lim probably saw how hard Susilo had worked and prepared....the relationship and therefore feeling for each other are certainly stronger and not felt by outsiders. If there are feelings, then an expression of feeling can include shedding a tear or two. He may not be disappointed with the loss of the game, but felt sad for Susilo. So, must he only feel inside the heart meh?
Then you have the cameraman, always ready to catch moment like this. If you have the taiwanese TV crew here, they will probably be able to catch a picture of a minister who forgot to zip his pants. Then what? can we put our fate in a minister who can forget to zip his pants.....??
Your speculation of the reason is amusing, 'Lim may lose his job, might have lost his bet'... but your inference is rather ludicrous.. 'Jnr Lee cannot control his men..' since when Jnr or Snr Lee control the expression of emotion by the ministers, can or cannot, where and when to shed tears?? Do you really expect LHL to control the ministers...(and the nation?) to that extent?
You sound like a true-bred Singaporean, but I din know anybody would put their fate and well being in Lim Swee Say or any minister as an individual. The well being of Singapore was never dependent on lao lee alone as there were Goh KS, Toh CC, Raja....., neither have we depended on GCT alone, and now certainly not just on LHL but the whole cabinet, the system, and the opposition to a certain extent, isn't it?
Ministers, politicians...are human beings and are therefore entitled to laugh, cry, shit in their pants.......but not all human beings are ministers, therefore we do not know if Lim Swee Say, besides shedding tears, has decided to do anything more to help bring our badminton to a higher level, like how to have more susilo. I guess at this moment, this is the appropriate and relevant question to ask Lim, if we have lost our faith in him.
Come to think of it, if Lim cried just because Susilo lost one game, and we lose faith in Lim just because he shed one or two drops of tears....are we all not taking things out of proportion?? sigh.....
but of cos, I need to further elaborate that I'm definitely solely depending on them to provide fprthe luxuries I'd yearn for.... But may I say that they are representing us and ministers of the sate and thus please at least Act like one...
What we are today is never the work of one man, regardless GKS / OTC / LKY / GCT...etc etc, but the work of all our grandparents / parents.... But guess who is reaping all most of the profits? Not You , not I definitely... All lucrative business has guess who again at the helm? Anyway, thats besides the point...
If you say... "Lim Swee Say, being in charge of badminton, probably spent lots of time with Susilo. Lim probably saw how hard Susilo had worked and prepared....the relationship and therefore feeling for each other are certainly stronger and not felt by outsiders. If there are feelings, then an expression of feeling can include shedding a tear or two." ...Then all the more he's got to show the qualities of a leader and encourage Susilo for a better fight the next time round, not CRY... If he's the coach and he cried when Susilo wins / loses, I can relate to it... But not when he'a an Environment Minister and the Head of NTUC. Can I trust a cry baby to enforce / implement new rules to a better working environment for us the workers of companies and the nation?
Ministers are truly human beings too... No one ever expected them to be saints... But I'm sure we're entitled to expect them to have qualities to lead us before we pay them such salaries. Say you're a shareholder of a company, will you not expect your B.O.D to implement and bring the company to better heights thereby reaping better dividends during year end? We're all like shareholders to this small little nation of ours we call home, aren't we?
Also, you didn't noticed during those years when LKY was in office, no one "dared" cried when our "hopefuls" loses in the Olympics? This is not the first year we've participated... Unless you're saying this is the first time these ministers got serious about Olympics which explains why he'll cry... Or that there could be a Rebellion / Mutiny....
fan le... zhao fan le... -
First of all i am a chinese. But let me get this straight. What I was answering is whether Susilo a true bred singaporean. Do u know what is a true bred singaporean? An identity card doesnt mean that fellow will fight and defend for the country. I am not opposing anyone , but to my own opinion, i feel that he is fighting for the sake of money and fame and not for the country ( of coz i wish a true bred singapore will get a medal). I dun like the feeling when i am approach by my frens and i am boasting about susilo...everyones know that he is from indonesia ( especially my indo frens ). I agree with them in a certain extent. Nothing is straight or absolute right. Even the law. Go take a look at the Supreme Court. Why is there a statue of a woman, blind folded and her right hand is holding a sword, and her left hand is holding a scale?Originally posted by sgdiehard:Is the status of being a Singaporean not being defined by the granting of citizenship? Are the granting of citizenship for sportpersons not in line with our national policy? Among us, is there a special kind of citizen called the 'true-bred' singaporean?
True-bred singaporean, a bumiputra mentality???
Woman is there to symbolize that even law there will be miscarriages.( for those who study law they will know) So dun try talking to me something so easy like singaporean is just define by the citizenship and thus his heart. -
It depends on how you define a true bred Singaporen. Does it mean someone who is born here and grow up here ? Singapore is an immigrant nation if we were to go by a narrow definition, a lot of us would never qualify as a true bred Singapore.Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:First of all i am a chinese. But let me guess this straight. I was answering is Susilo a true bred singaporean. Do u know what is a true bred singaporean? An identity card doesnt mean that fellow will fight and defend for the country. I am not opposing anyone , but to my own opinion, i feel that he is fighting for the sake of money and fame and not for the country ( of coz i wish a true bred singapore will get a medal). I dun like the feeling when i am approach by my frens and i am boasting about susilo...everyones know that he is from indonesia ( especially my indo frens " . I agree with them in a certain extent. Nothing is straight or absolute right. Even the law. Go take a look at the Supreme Court. Why is there a statue of a woman, blind folded and her right hand is holding a sword, and her left hand is holding a scale?
Woman is there to symbolize that even law there will be miscarriages.( for those who study law they will know) So dun try talking to me something so easy like singaporean is just define by the citizenship and thus his heart.
In the case of foreign born sportsman, I think we should we should embrace them and supported them whole-heartedly since they are completing under the Singapore flag. -
Originally posted by edseeker31:
I do not have any disagreement with the things you say here.
well said... well said...
but of cos, I need to further elaborate that I'm definitely solely depending on them to provide fprthe luxuries I'd yearn for.... But may I say that they are representing us and ministers of the sate and thus please at least Act like one...
What we are today is never the work of one man, regardless GKS / OTC / LKY / GCT...etc etc, but the work of all our grandparents / parents.... But guess who is reaping all most of the profits? Not You , not I definitely... All lucrative business has guess who again at the helm? Anyway, thats besides the point...
If you say... [b]"Lim Swee Say, being in charge of badminton, probably spent lots of time with Susilo. Lim probably saw how hard Susilo had worked and prepared....the relationship and therefore feeling for each other are certainly stronger and not felt by outsiders. If there are feelings, then an expression of feeling can include shedding a tear or two." ...Then all the more he's got to show the qualities of a leader and encourage Susilo for a better fight the next time round, not CRY... If he's the coach and he cried when Susilo wins / loses, I can relate to it... But not when he'a an Environment Minister and the Head of NTUC. Can I trust a cry baby to enforce / implement new rules to a better working environment for us the workers of companies and the nation?
Ministers are truly human beings too... No one ever expected them to be saints... But I'm sure we're entitled to expect them to have qualities to lead us before we pay them such salaries. Say you're a shareholder of a company, will you not expect your B.O.D to implement and bring the company to better heights thereby reaping better dividends during year end? We're all like shareholders to this small little nation of ours we call home, aren't we?
Also, you didn't noticed during those years when LKY was in office, no one "dared" cried when our "hopefuls" loses in the Olympics? This is not the first year we've participated... Unless you're saying this is the first time these ministers got serious about Olympics which explains why he'll cry... Or that there could be a Rebellion / Mutiny.... fan le... zhao fan le...
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The difference is in our different expectation on how minister should handle emotion, to be specific. Few days ago, I read from the ST forum somebody made the remark that in the power handover, our new PM and ministers did not hug their wives like those american leaders. Whether they should hug or not is not the matter, what is clear is that more and more Singaporean are expecting our leaders to be more ppl oriented, have more feeling and compassion for ppl. There is no hard and fast rule about how they should show their feeling and compassion. I can accept what Lim did without extrapolation on his character, though I still hold him accountable for our environment.
Under lao lee we were never so close to an olympic medal! The need for encouraging our sports and arts were never his agenda. Thats why lao lee could run the country with a stone face. In his time, there were only channel 5 and 8 but now there are cables TV. Now singapore is different liao, lao lee suddenly realised he could not understand why his granddaughter like MTV. Don't need to zhao fan, shi dai bu tong le!!! -
During Lao Lee time ppl worry more about their stomach who care about the olympics. Tan Howe Liang's efforts were unregonised. Times are different lah.
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You have not defined the true bred singaporean!Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:First of all i am a chinese. But let me get this straight. What I was answering is whether Susilo a true bred singaporean. Do u know what is a true bred singaporean? An identity card doesnt mean that fellow will fight and defend for the country. I am not opposing anyone , but to my own opinion, i feel that he is fighting for the sake of money and fame and not for the country ( of coz i wish a true bred singapore will get a medal). I dun like the feeling when i am approach by my frens and i am boasting about susilo...everyones know that he is from indonesia ( especially my indo frens ). I agree with them in a certain extent. Nothing is straight or absolute right. Even the law. Go take a look at the Supreme Court. Why is there a statue of a woman, blind folded and her right hand is holding a sword, and her left hand is holding a scale?
Woman is there to symbolize that even law there will be miscarriages.( for those who study law they will know) So dun try talking to me something so easy like singaporean is just define by the citizenship and thus his heart.
Will immigrant singaporean stay and fight to defend singapore? this is not tested yet, for them, the immigrant singaporean, and also for the so called true bred singaporean!
Are those born in Singapore the true bred singaporean? we are continuing to see many born in singapore migrating to australia and canada, for many reasons, don't want their children to endure the learning of their mother tongue, singapore society too stressful, singapore too small.....these are legitmate reasons for immigration, quitter or not, but the question is, are all born in singapore citizens true bred singaporean who will stay and fight and defend singapore? the reality tells us NO.
Most singaporeans are first generation singaporean. Their parents left china, india, malaysia....and came to singapore for a better life. are we then ashamed to tell others that these parents came to singapore for a better living, and are therefore not true bred singaporean?
Citizenship defines singaporean, born outside or in singapore. I agree it cannot define the hearts of those born outside of singapore, but neither can it define the hearts of those born in singapore!
The blind folded lady symbolizes that the court does not look at the person under the law, and the scale symbolizes that all must be fair and equal. When susilo was playing in athen, do we look at what flag he was flying or where was he born? It is fair for us to discount all his efforts put into his training and played for singapore just because he was born in indonesia?
Look at it the other way round, if the new immigrant singaporean are not accepted as true bred singaporean, will they want to stay and fight to defend singapore? when the need arises.
or are we counting on the true bred singaporean?? but who and where are they?? -
First of all...i said the lady is to symbolize miscarriage. If u dunno then dun talk to me about it. Not like just go to the internet and find something relevant and give me an assault The blindfold itself is the one that symbolizes that the court does not look at the person under the law. OK...get things right ya. Dun try to rephase the sentence of what i said to make urself feel more intellectual.Originally posted by sgdiehard:You have not defined the true bred singaporean!
Will immigrant singaporean stay and fight to defend singapore? this is not tested yet, for them, the immigrant singaporean, and also for the so called true bred singaporean!
Are those born in Singapore the true bred singaporean? we are continuing to see many born in singapore migrating to australia and canada, for many reasons, don't want their children to endure the learning of their mother tongue, singapore society too stressful, singapore too small.....these are legitmate reasons for immigration, quitter or not, but the question is, are all born in singapore citizens true bred singaporean who will stay and fight and defend singapore? the reality tells us NO.
Most singaporeans are first generation singaporean. Their parents left china, india, malaysia....and came to singapore for a better life. are we then ashamed to tell others that these parents came to singapore for a better living, and are therefore not true bred singaporean?
Citizenship defines singaporean, born outside or in singapore. I agree it cannot define the hearts of those born outside of singapore, but neither can it define the hearts of those born in singapore!
The blind folded lady symbolizes that the court does not look at the person under the law, and the scale symbolizes that all must be fair and equal. When susilo was playing in athen, do we look at what flag he was flying or where was he born? It is fair for us to discount all his efforts put into his training and played for singapore just because he was born in indonesia?
Look at it the other way round, if the new immigrant singaporean are not accepted as true bred singaporean, will they want to stay and fight to defend singapore? when the need arises.
or are we counting on the true bred singaporean?? but who and where are they??
OK..how i define true bred singaporean. As for me...i define it as a person who are born in singapore before and after singapore got her independance and those who fight for singapore independance if they are not born in singapore. Yes..some of them do leave the country..but izit 50% ? 10%? or just 5%? alot of difference. By the way, every country also got their citizen migrating.I know Susilo is fighting under Singapore flag...i know he trained very hard for it....but still I said from my own opinion...i do agree with my indonesian frens to a certain extent. That is my opinion, my logic and my thinking. To my own opnion, i believe that he is fighting more for fame and $$ then actually for the country itself. Is there a problem when i answer the question is Susilo a true bred singaporean? U can have ur own opinion, but u make it sounds like a fact rather than an opinion. I said that i am not against anyone and that includes u. Do u feel awkward in the first place to tell other nation ( especially indonesian) that how good and talented our Singaporean Susilo is? If u dont, I do. Even singapore lost in the ping pong, still i am more proud of her than Susilo. Do u grasp what i am trying to say? I am not having a personal attack on u, and i conclude that this is my own opinion. And i also believe that in order for one to love a country, alot of years are needed ( easier when u r young) sometimes decades and sometimes even generations. -
I have read all the discussions about this issue and with regards to Mr Lim crying and shedding tears, I really must make this statement and say that please be reminded that we are all human beings and we have emotions too. Just because he is a minister he cannot cry?
Do you know even crazy and evil men in history also had their so called "soft side" ? Even Adolf Hitler (if you see videos of him with Eva Braun and him hugging children in a loving way and if you know his life story) also had soft sides to his personality! -
I did not say anything about the lady whom you said symbolizes miscarriage. you lawyer friend told you a joke and you toke it for real. Ask him what does the 'blind-fold' and 'the balance' (more appropriate description of the apparatus than scale.) mean?Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:First of all...i said the lady is to symbolize miscarriage. If u dunno then dun talk to me about it. Not like just go to the internet and find something relevant and give me an assault The blindfold itself is the one that symbolizes that the court does not look at the person under the law. OK...get things right ya. Dun try to rephase the sentence of what i said to make urself feel more intellectual.
What did I rephrase?? I do not have to say anything, just looking at what you write I know I am more intellectual oredi. -
Many of the true bred singaporean as you defined are in their seventies or eighties, cannot play badminton, or any other games liao.Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:OK..how i define true bred singaporean. As for me...i define it as a person who are born in singapore before and after singapore got her independance and those who fight for singapore independance if they are not born in singapore. Yes..some of them do leave the country..but izit 50% ? 10%? or just 5%? alot of difference. By the way, every country also got their citizen migrating.I know Susilo is fighting under Singapore flag...i know he trained very hard for it....but still I said from my own opinion...i do agree with my indonesian frens to a certain extent. That is my opinion, my logic and my thinking. To my own opnion, i believe that he is fighting more for fame and $$ then actually for the country itself. Is there a problem when i answer the question is Susilo a true bred singaporean? U can have ur own opinion, but u make it sounds like a fact rather than an opinion. I said that i am not against anyone and that includes u. Do u feel awkward in the first place to tell other nation ( especially indonesian) that how good and talented our Singaporean Susilo is? If u dont, I do. Even singapore lost in the ping pong, still i am more proud of her than Susilo. Do u grasp what i am trying to say? I am not having a personal attack on u, and i conclude that this is my own opinion. And i also believe that in order for one to love a country, alot of years are needed ( easier when u r young) sometimes decades and sometimes even generations.
Lets get this straight, if you only have problem with susilo, and susilo alone, you are entitled to your own opinion about him, I do not have problem and I do not defend him. But, if you are discreditting all immigrant singaporean representing singapore in sports, or in other areas, then you better have better and more sensible arguments! -
Bravo Bravo..well said.Originally posted by sgdiehard:I did not say anything about the lady whom you said symbolizes miscarriage. you lawyer friend told you a joke and you toke it for real. Ask him what does the 'blind-fold' and 'the balance' (more appropriate description of the apparatus than scale.) mean?
What did I rephrase?? I do not have to say anything, just looking at what you write I know I am more intellectual oredi.
1) What u said :- I did not say anything about the lady whom you said symbolizes miscarriage. you lawyer friend told you a joke and you toke it for real.
So u believe is a joke and i toke it for real. Well well..tell me that my PHD law lecturer is wrong and u r right. Thx. And in his lecture notes, he used the word " scale". Scale or balance...is as long as one can understand. Raising ur hand just to tell him Sir, the more apropriate word to use is balance. What rubbish. The entire lecture hall will laugh at u. Fortunately i am not like u.
What i said was : " First of all...i said the lady is to symbolize miscarriage. If u dunno then dun talk to me about it. Not like just go to the internet and find something relevant and give me an assault The blindfold itself is the one that symbolizes that the court does not look at the person under the law." So to be precise with u, even the statue is a guy, the blindfold still means that the law is equal with no favouritism. Ok...clear??? U think i do not know what the scale represents??/ my my..i even know what the sword represents. y...cant find the answer in the internet?
2) u r more intellectual than me. Good for u. I am doing my final year in NUS with scholarship. If nothing goes wrong...i would end up in a 2nd class honours ( upper division). Not smart enough for first class and deans list. U r smarter rite?? -
1) Many of the true bred singaporean as you defined are in their seventies or eighties, cannot play badminton, or any other games liao.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Many of the true bred singaporean as you defined are in their seventies or eighties, cannot play badminton, or any other games liao.
Lets get this straight, if you only have problem with susilo, and susilo alone, you are entitled to your own opinion about him, I do not have problem and I do not defend him. But, if you are discreditting all immigrant singaporean representing singapore in sports, or in other areas, then you better have better and more sensible arguments!
- wah many are in 70's and 80's??? no one born in singapore after singapore get independance?? so poor thing ah singapore? that means now all the youngster on the road are 70% not born from singapore wan lah...u say many mah??? PLS lah...claiming urself to be more intellectual
2) that is how i define Singaporean and True bred singaporean ok. If in the first place, Singaporean = True bred singaporean, the guy ( 1st post) no need to ask whether is susilo a True bred singaporean. Who in the world do not know that susilo is a singaporean. He became singaporean just 2 years ago. My my...and u r more intelectual than me??Self praise is no praise my fren. Then tell me..how do u define ur singaporean and true bred singaporean. come on...tell me. from my previous eg, i said that if billgates would want to migrate to singapore and become a citizen here...fine , he is a singaporean, but not a TRUE- BRED singaporean. That is my way of defining the word...what's urs? -
You are getting hot and out of point. I see you are not in the position to discuss any further. Just one point I want to point out to you, for your own good.Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:Bravo Bravo..well said.
1) What u said :- I did not say anything about the lady whom you said symbolizes miscarriage. you lawyer friend told you a joke and you toke it for real.
So u believe is a joke and i toke it for real. Well well..tell me that my PHD law lecturer is wrong and u r right. Thx. And in his lecture notes, he used the word " scale". Scale or balance...is as long as one can understand. Raising ur hand just to tell him Sir, the more apropriate word to use is balance. What rubbish. The entire lecture hall will laugh at u. Fortunately i am not like u.
What i said was : " First of all...i said the lady is to symbolize miscarriage. If u dunno then dun talk to me about it. Not like just go to the internet and find something relevant and give me an assault The blindfold itself is the one that symbolizes that the court does not look at the person under the law." So to be precise with u, even the statue is a guy, the blindfold still means that the law is equal with no favouritism. Ok...clear??? U think i do not know what the scale represents??/ my my..i even know what the sword represents. y...cant find the answer in the internet?
2) u r more intellectual than me. Good for u. I am doing my final year in NUS with scholarship. If nothing goes wrong...i would end up in a 2nd class honours ( upper division). Not smart enough for first class and deans list. U r smarter rite??
Scale and balance are both weighing apparatus. Scales, like bathroom or kitchen scales are calibrated to show weights but a balance does not show weight. It has two pans on two sides with a pivot in the middle. Put two equal weights on each side and it will come to balance. The statue holds a balance symbolizing equality under law. You PHD law lecturer is obviously not detailed enough to know the difference. If I were you I would tell him. If you have something sensible to say, even if it is to your lecturers, why are afraid of 'the whole lecture hall laugh'? Have confidence in yourself.
I do not look at where you were born, what paper qualifications you have, and I do not accept what you say just on the weight of your law lecturers or anybody....I only look at the arguements you present, on the true bred singaporean. If you have any other points, cool down and present it properly. -
I am getting out of point ? which one...the small problem of scale and balance? english or point? I am pointing to u a bigger problem, the concept of migration, ur 70-80's years old singaporean...Originally posted by sgdiehard:You are getting hot and out of point. I see you are not in the position to discuss any further. Just one point I want to point out to you, for your own good.
Scale and balance are both weighing apparatus. Scales, like bathroom or kitchen scales are calibrated to show weights but a balance does not show weight. It has two pans on two sides with a pivot in the middle. Put two equal weights on each side and it will come to balance. The statue holds a balance symbolizing equality under law. You PHD law lecturer is obviously not detailed enough to know the difference. If I were you I would tell him. If you have something sensible to say, even if it is to your lecturers, why are afraid of 'the whole lecture hall laugh'? Have confidence in yourself.
I do not look at where you were born, what paper qualifications you have, and I do not accept what you say just on the weight of your law lecturers or anybody....I only look at the arguements you present, on the true bred singaporean. If you have any other points, cool down and present it properly.
Have u attended the lecture hall?? boast ur command of english to the lecturer? Make urself famous...no one will do that loh. No one will raise the hand just to say it loh. U can trust me for that. For ur info...in NUS alot of lecturers are from PRC, Korea and India. And thier english cannot make it wan loh for some of them. So..we r used to not making a big fuss just becoz of some grammatical error or vocab error. It is his brain, his intellectual, his thinking that get him to PHD. not english. I do not disagree with ur definition of balance and scale. But...i am just immune to such small little tiny error.
Anyway..what is ur definition of Singaporean and True Bred singaporean? As i had mention...the guy ( 1st post) asked...is he a true bred singaporean. What is ur answer. Of coz we know susilo is a singaporean rite?
ps:// i do hope this would be an exchange of thoughts rather than a personal attack. -
When somebody asked if singaporean = true bred singaporean, I take it that this guy does not know there is no difference, otherwise he is trying to segregate singaporean. You have to come up with the definition of born in singapore = true bred singapore.Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:1) Many of the true bred singaporean as you defined are in their seventies or eighties, cannot play badminton, or any other games liao.
- wah many are in 70's and 80's??? no one born in singapore after singapore get independance?? so poor thing ah singapore? that means now all the youngster on the road are 70% not born from singapore wan lah...u say many mah??? PLS lah...claiming urself to be more intellectual
2) that is how i define Singaporean and True bred singaporean ok. If in the first place, Singaporean = True bred singaporean, the guy ( 1st post) no need to ask whether is susilo a True bred singaporean. Who in the world do not know that susilo is a singaporean. He became singaporean just 2 years ago. My my...and u r more intelectual than me??Self praise is no praise my fren. Then tell me..how do u define ur singaporean and true bred singaporean. come on...tell me. from my previous eg, i said that if billgates would want to migrate to singapore and become a citizen here...fine , he is a singaporean, but not a TRUE- BRED singaporean. That is my way of defining the word...what's urs?
Let me clarify for you, 'True bred singaporean' is a term created by those with inferiority complex who have problem accepting new immigrant singaporeans who, in many ways, better than them. In law, all singaporean are true singaporean, by birth or by nationalization.
Put this in yr mind, singaporean like Lee Jie Wie, have been flying singapore flags, fighting for the honor of singapore in many different places for some times oredi and she is only 23, you are probably not much younger. What have you done for singapore? still using taxpayers money for you studies!! don tell me yr two and a half yrs in NS is a sacrifice for the nation, that was only to turn boys into men.
Being born in singapore does not put any one singaporean on higher ground than other singaporean. You can take it to the bank. -
In paper, identity card..yes no difference. Tell me..have u ever exchange ur thoughts or ur point of view with ppl from Indoneisa, M'sia or China about those players. I was once like u...trying to be proud and boast about them.. u can tell them..they are singaporean...but WHY...WHY they cant accept it? Why those memories of thier past still haunt them? Why ...is becoz they will tell u..that singapore buy them back and they are not truely singaporean. That's how all this thing initiated; issue of true bred singaporean go to this site also http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=90556.Originally posted by sgdiehard:When somebody asked if singaporean = true bred singaporean, I take it that this guy does not know there is no difference, otherwise he is trying to segregate singaporean. You have to come up with the definition of born in singapore = true bred singapore.
Let me clarify for you, 'True bred singaporean' is a term created by those with inferiority complex who have problem accepting new immigrant singaporeans who, in many ways, better than them. In law, all singaporean are true singaporean, by birth or by nationalization.
Put this in yr mind, singaporean like Lee Jie Wie, have been flying singapore flags, fighting for the honor of singapore in many different places for some times oredi and she is only 23, you are probably not much younger. What have you done for singapore? still using taxpayers money for you studies!! don tell me yr two and a half yrs in NS is a sacrifice for the nation, that was only to turn boys into men.
Being born in singapore does not put any one singaporean on higher ground than other singaporean. You can take it to the bank.
singaporean Lee Jie Wie...fighting for us....ok...u sure she is not fighting for money?? 100%...she quit from being a PRC to join singapore becoz she wans to fight for singapore..and not $$...100% sure? This is an issue my fren. Talk more to foreigners. Even in the olympic webpage...of all the badminton players biography, Susilo...Singaporean...below they wrote from indonesia. Why..Why is there such a barrier in thier mind? How proud can u be...a foreign talent fighting for singapore. Dun ask me how much i contributed...how much u contributed as a singaporean also........but if neither both of us are gifted in sport...so..buying or getting foreign talent to fight for our country is the solution??? do u know how our neighbouring countries think about us?
Isnt it government resposiblity to ensure that thier citizen get a good education? U dun use tax payer money to study??? all the way private? I am not talented in sports....so i try to contribute to the country in another way. As for me..yes i view NS as a sacrifice for the country. To learn how to defend my country when the time comes...not as to turn boys to men. I dun need to go through NS to become a men. So ..u r trying to say that singapore is the only country with men...and other country ..their male citizen are just boys???
My last advise is try talking to foreigners. My foreigners frens are not stupid. They have thier own points. I listen to them wif an open mind....let's here what they say about foreign talent in singapore. What i believe is not about winning...u can cheat to win. It is when u win...u make others acknowdledge that u deserve the victory. What i am trying to say is that..if susilo won the medal, our neighbouring country especially indonesia will not accept that singapore had improve in badminton....it is the day that our so call True Bred singaporean that does the job. And that will definetely shut them up in humiliation. It is the pride of winning...not getting the medal just for the sake of getting it. -
There is no personal attack here but if anybody were to be hurt, they will be those were not born here.Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:In paper, identity card..yes no difference. Tell me..have u ever exchange ur thoughts or ur point of view with ppl from Indoneisa, M'sia or China about those players. I was once like u...trying to be proud and boast about them.. u can tell them..they are singaporean...but WHY...WHY they cant accept it? Why those memories of thier past still haunt them? Why ...is becoz they will tell u..that singapore buy them back and they are not truely singaporean. That's how all this thing initiated; issue of true bred singaporean go to this site also http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=90556.
singaporean Lee Jie Wie...fighting for us....ok...u sure she is not fighting for money?? 100%...she quit from being a PRC to join singapore becoz she wans to fight for singapore..and not $$...100% sure? This is an issue my fren. Talk more to foreigners. Even in the olympic webpage...of all the badminton players biography, Susilo...Singaporean...below they wrote from indonesia. Why..Why is there such a barrier in thier mind? How proud can u be...a foreign talent fighting for singapore. Dun ask me how much i contributed...how much u contributed as a singaporean also........but if neither both of us are gifted in sport...so..buying or getting foreign talent to fight for our country is the solution??? do u know how our neighbouring countries think about us?
Isnt it government resposiblity to ensure that thier citizen get a good education? U dun use tax payer money to study??? all the way private? I am not talented in sports....so i try to contribute to the country in another way. As for me..yes i view NS as a sacrifice for the country. To learn how to defend my country when the time comes...not as to turn boys to men. I dun need to go through NS to become a men. So ..u r trying to say that singapore is the only country with men...and other country ..their male citizen are just boys???
My last advise is try talking to foreigners. My foreigners frens are not stupid. They have thier own points. I listen to them wif an open mind....let's here what they say about foreign talent in singapore. What i believe is not about winning...u can cheat to win. It is when u win...u make others acknowdledge that u deserve the victory. What i am trying to say is that..if susilo won the medal, our neighbouring country especially indonesia will not accept that singapore had improve in badminton....it is the day that our so call True Bred singaporean that does the job. And that will definetely shut them up in humiliation. It is the pride of winning...not getting the medal just for the sake of getting it.
I will leave it to you to find out about scale and balance. It is not about good or bad english, it is about what it is.
It is good for young people to meet and talk to many ppl, but you must decide what you can accept. We should not define singaporean based on what the neighbouring countries said. I don really care if the malaysian and indonesian accept our players as singaporean. The indonesia will have to slap their own face and ask why susilo played for singapore and not indonesia. Look at players in many games and you will find the table tennis representatives of england and australia were of chinese origin. the soccer players from france in world cup were of african origin. The world have changed. Ppl migrate, to places where they can find better future, where their potentials can be fully developed....how many of our leaders were born in malaysia, in india and sri lanka?? Does it make them less of singaporean than those born here?
Are you aware that the cream of the top malaysian chinese schools can gain direct acceptance into NUS and NTU? If they do well they will be given scholarship and then citizenship...they become full fledge singaporean, do they not? malaysian certainly don like it, so what?
Players like Li Jia Wei came at very young age, we accepted them because of their potential. They had not made it yet. Then we put them in our system and train them. They may or may not make it to the top. If they don't, they will still be singaporean but may be end up as coaches in schools. This is the risk they take. So why they cannot be considered true bred singaporean??? just because the malaysian, the indonesian, or whoever your foreigner friends say so??
Do not confuse such players with those like david beckhum, professionals who represent whoever pay them more, in club leagues. In Olympics, Yao Ming played for China, not USA!!! so your friend think they can buy back their players.....they don't know what they are talking about.
I don call your foreigners friends stupid but foreigners like to ridicule singapore for many things, like chewing gum, ERP....then later you find that chewing gum is also banned in MTR in HongKong, and ERP is implemented in london....singapore is a developed country in that we can now put money into training of sportsmen and women, give incentives for those with potential to join us, not only to win medals but to bring up the standard of the sports in our country. The neighbouring countries have population that is at least 5 times ours and they can hope to find the right talents. We don't have that many ppl so we find other ways. Our neighbours can do many things, I don have to approve their ways. Neither do I allow them to approve our ways. How did you defend the singapore way in front of yr foreigner friends? Defending singapore is not just about fighting in battles.
Be gracious in accepting new comers, be proud and defend our ways of life, defend our countrymen, defend our government ( fighting among PAP and opposition parties is our own internal affairs), IF YOU DO THAT, THEN YOU ARE A TRUE SINGAPOREAN, A TRUE BRED, FULL FLEDGE AND AN HONORABLE SINGAPOREAN, never mind where you were born. -
double post -
[quote]Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:
boast ur command of english to the lecturer? Make urself famous...no one will do that loh. No one will raise the hand just to say it loh. U can trust me for that. For ur info...in NUS alot of lecturers are from PRC, Korea and India. And thier english cannot make it wan loh for some of them. So..we r used to not making a big fuss just becoz of some grammatical error or vocab error. It is his brain, his intellectual, his thinking that get him to PHD. not english.[b] I do not disagree with ur definition of balance and scale. But...i am just immune to such small little tiny error.
If u still wan to make a big fuss about the balance and scale thing...well just go ahead. For ur info..i am not illiterate. Is just so happen when i flip the notes i come across the word "scale" and i just overlooked it and type it in when i reply u. As i had mentioned in my previous post that i do not diagree with ur definition of balance and scale.So..if u still wan to comment on it....well...
I already told u that winning is not everything...u can cheat to win. It is when u win...u make others acknowledge that u deserve the victory. What i am trying to say is that..if susilo won the medal, our neighbouring countries especially indonesia will not accept that singapore had improve in badminton....but what u said is I don really care if the malaysian and indonesian accept our players as singaporean. I guess my principle is different from urs then. What is the whole point of winning if ppl do not acknowledge u as a winner? self praise?? I really hate it when in the olympic webpage, in Susilo biography..they wrote singaporean then below, he was an indonesian ( do u know what they are trying to say??)Do u really dun care about what ppl say? Lets say..if everyone walks up to u and tells u that u r weird. Do u feel happy or sad? We live in the shadow of each other. So..is the same thing here...i dun wan other countries view singaporean as a kiasu ppl. Ppl win..i also must win, we cant win with our own players...use foreign talent. If one country view us as arrogant and kiasu ppl...well..we can afford to ignore them...but if there are more than that.....then..does it mean anything to u?
>Are you aware that the cream of the top malaysian chinese schools can gain direct acceptance into NUS and NTU?
Of coz i am aware. These are the students who i am exchanging my thoughts with.
>Do not confuse such players with those like david beckhum, professionals who represent whoever pay them more, in club leagues. In Olympics, Yao Ming played for China, not USA!!! so your friend think they can buy back their players.....they don't know what they are talking about.
What i wrote was "I was once like u...trying to be proud and boast about them.. u can tell them..they are singaporean...but WHY...WHY they cant accept it? Why those memories of thier past still haunt them? Why ...is becoz they will tell u..that singapore buy them back and they are not truely singaporean. " Singapore buy them back..is like saying that singapore is buying the heart of foreign talent to play for our country. i guess is a misinterpretation.
If at that time when Susilo is going to become singaporean...US gives tripple the amount of insentives that singapore could offer ..do u think he will say no..i play for singapore and singapore alone?? Let us put it this way, if u r born i an extremely poor country..but u r brilliant person, hence a few countries offer u scholarship to study in thier country...would u choose the one that benefits u the most? ..of coz u will right...U already said it "Ppl migrate, to places where they can find better future, where their potentials can be fully developed...." Find better future..what future..$$$ is one of them right? Where thier potentials can be fully developed..isnt this for thier own good... Money is a very powerful tool. As i mentioned...r u 100% sure that these ppl fight for our country and not for $$... if it is not ...then this issue will forever remain debatable.
Ask u one simple question, is susilo consider a foreign talent or local talent? The government knows that our LOCAL Talents are not good enough in sport ...therefore we must use FOREIGN talents. In order that these foreign talents could play for singapore...of coz they must first be singaporean. So...they are singaporean...but do u term them as local talent or foreign talent? We all know...in our heart...whether u wan to admit or not..ppl view them as foreign talent. Does this give u a feel of what i am trying to say all this while? Lets say...if this gal..Si Hau Lian...born in singapore, stay here until 18 years old...win gold medal for singapore...would u term her as local talent or foreign talent? U will be proud to say..well done to our local talent!! right?
This will be my last post in this thread. I know what i had mentioned will not change ur view...and vice versa. If everyone would have the same thinking, same logic..there is no need for oppostion party, parliament votes and the world would be in peace. I had say what i have to say...and thats it. -
If susilo were to win a medal, will he be standing on the podium? will the singapore flag be raised? if he won gold, will "Majula Singapora" be played? If the answers to both questions are positive, that means he is a recognised singaporean, by the world!! Is this an acknowledgement?? Some of your Malaysian and Indonesian friends may think they are higher authorities than the Olympics committee, but they are entitled to their opinion, the reality is there they cannot deny.Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:[quote]Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:
[b]
I already told u that winning is not everything...u can cheat to win. It is when u win...u make others acknowledge that u deserve the victory. What i am trying to say is that..if susilo won the medal, our neighbouring countries especially indonesia will not accept that singapore had improve in badminton....but what u said is I don really care if the malaysian and indonesian accept our players as singaporean. I guess my principle is different from urs then. What is the whole point of winning if ppl do not acknowledge u as a winner? self praise?? I really hate it when in the olympic webpage, in Susilo biography..they wrote singaporean then below, he was an indonesian ( do u know what they are trying to say??)Do u really dun care about what ppl say? Lets say..if everyone walks up to u and tells u that u r weird. Do u feel happy or sad? We live in the shadow of each other. So..is the same thing here...i dun wan other countries view singaporean as a kiasu ppl. Ppl win..i also must win, we cant win with our own players...use foreign talent. If one country view us as arrogant and kiasu ppl...well..we can afford to ignore them...but if there are more than that.....then..does it mean anything to u?
Imagine NUS confers you a first class honours, but Malaysian Institute of Idiots and Indonesian College of Dummies said they do not think you have learned anything, what do you think? If you care about what they, then you better go and join them. Don't waste the scholarship.
You live in the shadow of others and you don't see light. I use others shadow only to stay cool.
I care when ppl tell me Singaporeans are arrogant for being arrogant is not a good character. If I were told being kiasu, I will say kaisu is not necessarily bad, it has to depend on the circumstance. If you tell me I am wired, you better give me a good reason, otherwise I become your mirror. -
Let me give you an analogy, I plant many rambutan trees in my garden, but I never get enough fruits and the fruits are never sweet. So I bought some good seeds from Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand and plant them in my garden. These trees produce many fruits, many sweet fruits. If my friend come visit me, can I offer them the sweet fruits and say these are from my garden?Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:[quote]Originally posted by TrU PeAce (^0*)v:
[b]
Ask u one simple question, is susilo consider a foreign talent or local talent? The government knows that our LOCAL Talents are not good enough in sport ...therefore we must use FOREIGN talents. In order that these foreign talents could play for singapore...of coz they must first be singaporean. So...they are singaporean...but do u term them as local talent or foreign talent? We all know...in our heart...whether u wan to admit or not..ppl view them as foreign talent. Does this give u a feel of what i am trying to say all this while? Lets say...if this gal..Si Hau Lian...born in singapore, stay here until 18 years old...win gold medal for singapore...would u term her as local talent or foreign talent? U will be proud to say..well done to our local talent!! right?
This will be my last post in this thread. I know what i had mentioned will not change ur view...and vice versa. If everyone would have the same thinking, same logic..there is no need for oppostion party, parliament votes and the world would be in peace. I had say what i have to say...and thats it.
Or I must continue to do scientific research to change the DNA of my own rambutan trees to produce sweet rambutan?
It is different if I were to buy some sweet rambutan from the fruits sellers in the market and say that these are my rambutan.
When susilo came to singapore, what he had was potential only, he was nobody. What little he achieved today is a result of what he gained in singapore, the experience he gained when singapore sent him for overseas competitions. If he were a world class player in Indonesia, the indonesian would have offered him much more money than we can give.
Even now, he still has to work very closely with the Singapore Badminton Association to gain higher ground. and singaporean have to accept him and work together. The day when he achieves, it is this working together that make him and us proud that singapore has achieved. Being born in indonesia,singapore or malaysia does not mean anything!!
I will not be bothered to write so much if you are not a singaporean. I still don't give a damn what the &^%$#@ the malaysian and indonesian think.