5 day work week. How about other matters on Saturdays?
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The government has implemented 5 days work week. How about other matters that is still happening on Saturdays but not on Sundays? Should all these matters be considered as well?
Below are some issues i am concern about on SATURDAYS
Current Situation
1. Off-Peak Cars(OPC) is only allowed after 3pm on Saturdays
- Sunday, OPC is allowed to be driven the whole day
2. Taxi Peak Period Subcharge
- $1.00 extra for taxi cabs
- for timing 7.30am to 9.30am. And 5.00pm to 8.00pm
- On Sunday, no such charges
3. Taxi City Area Subcharge
- $1.00 extra for taxi cabs
- for timing 5.00pm to 12 midnight
- On Sunday, no such charges
Proposed to Change To:
1. OPC cars is allowed to be driven the whole day on Saturdays
2. No Taxi Peak Period Subcharge on Saturdays
3. No Taxi City Area Subcharge on Saturdays
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Anyone out there got any matters to bring out with regards to saturday and sunday issues, please post it here to benefit the rest. I thank you for that.
Please feel free to comment. -
Great news, after restoring the 10% cut to the wages of Ministers and most Civil Servants, they are now giving themselves a 5-Day work week to enjoy the extra 10% wages.
Meanwhile, the unemployment rate remains at 4%, and is expected to remain at this level throughout 2005 and beyond.
Do you expect any reduction to those charges that you have listed ?
You will be lucky if those will not be further increased, and meanwhile they must stay due to the fact that some Government Over-the-Counter Services will stay open on Saturdays - leading to heavier traffic flow when nearly everyone will adopt a 5-Day workweek.
Whatever charges that have been increased will stay in place, as revenue must continue to be collected to pay for the 10% restoration of previously cut wages; as well as for the expected payment of 13 month pay at the end of 2004, and wage increase in a flexi-wage system for the Civil Service.
Count yourself lucky that you will have an extra day for fishing, if your time is not taken up by Reservist Recall Service. -
This is an amusing post too
Atobe writesGreat news, after restoring the 10% cut to the wages of Ministers and most Civil Servants, they are now giving themselves a 5-Day work week to enjoy the extra 10% wages.
The 5-day work week is to increase family time as everyone well knows. The official number of working hours remains at 44. This means that even though most civil servants will no longer work on Saturdays, they will have to work slightly longer on weekdays to make up for not having to work on Saturdays. Hence no one is enjoying 10% more wages while working shorter hours.
Atobe writesMeanwhile, the unemployment rate remains at 4%, and is expected to remain at this level throughout 2005 and beyond.
The global economic situation has been rather volatile in the past few years, the Asian Financial Crisis not witstanding. One can continue to blame the government, but really, some things are really beyond anyone's control esp when Singapore is highly dependent on global trade, and exposed to global economic cycles. Still, the unemployment figure has decreased over the past two years hasn't it? From a high of 5.5% in September 2003 to 4.5% now in Sept 2004. You may also wish to compare unemployment rates of other developed and trade dependent economies currently to have some basis for comparison: Germany at 10.7%, USA at 6.3%, Indonesia at 10.5%, Malaysia at 3.4%, Hong Kong at 7.9%, UK at 5.1%. (All figures from CIA World Factbook 2004) I don't think Singapore is doing too badly, especially when the rate IS showing signs of decline year-by-year.
And economic growth is anticipated to reach a high of 8-9% for 2004, making it Asia's 2nd best economy after China. Last quarter's growth was 11.9% too as reported widely in international media. Of course, it will take time for these improvements to flow down and be felt by the general populace: better wages, increased consumer confidence, more job security etc.
Atobe writesYou will be lucky if those will not be further increased, and meanwhile they must stay due to the fact that some Government Over-the-Counter Services will stay open on Saturdays - leading to heavier traffic flow when nearly everyone will adopt a 5-Day workweek.
Traffic congestion has always been heavy on Saturdays, (and Sundays and public holidays too!) but not for the reasons you stated- shopping, family-related recreational activities. I am not sure if having a day off means MORE people are going to rush down to queue up at govt counters instead of using the time for social and family activities. Why can't they continue to see to them during lunch hour if there is a real need for personal attention at govt buildings? Besides, with electronic online services, many things can be done in the comfort of one's home.
Atobe writesWhatever charges that have been increased will stay in place, as revenue must continue to be collected to pay for the 10% restoration of previously cut wages; as well as for the expected payment of 13 month pay at the end of 2004, and wage increase in a flexi-wage system for the Civil Service
AWS/13th month bonuses are not directly dependent on revenue collected (hahahaha!) Bonuses are dependent on economic growth annually, while AWS is guaranteed. Perhaps you dont work for the civil service- just ask your civil servant friends. So even if the tax department collects more income tax this year, it doesnt mean that income tax officers are going to get a bigger bonus end 2004, or that it will be shared among civil servants from other ministries. (hahahaha!)
Atobe writesCount yourself lucky that you will have an extra day for fishing, if your time is not taken up by Reservist Recall Service.
I don't know about you, but most male citizens get called up 1-2 times a year, not most weekends. -
THE 5 DAY WORK WEEK IS only for civil jobs....NO BIG DEAL LAH.... u really think can help foster better family ties?? dun pay cut tao chio liao...PAP is good at wayang act saint only
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Scorps125 writes
THE 5 DAY WORK WEEK IS only for civil jobs....NO BIG DEAL LAH.... u really think can help foster better family ties?? dun pay cut tao chio liao...PAP is good at wayang act saint only
Most private sector jobs already implement a five-day work week, especially professional ones. The government is merely keeping in line with private sector practices.
I did not state that having a five-day work week will "foster better family ties" or improve familial relationships. That's your idea, not mine.
I did say that it will 'increase family time' simply because working parents do not have to be at the office on Saturdays. It is hoped that spending more time with kids and having more opportunities to interact with them will strike a balance between career and family.
For childless couples, the govt is crossing its fingers that having regular and entire weekends to themselves may produce babies.
The idea is that the govt has taken the first step- how families bond (if at all), or if more babies are produced is entirely up to the individuals. You have already made your stand clear- you do not believe it will happen. Perhaps it will not happen for you and your family, but let's leave it to other families to decide for themselves. Many acquaintances (esp. those with families) I know are in fact very happy with the change. It is something they have wished for, for a long time. I don't see how it's 'wayang' since it's a concrete step. Perhaps you have your own frustrations and anger with the govt or some govt policy, and are looking for some issue to vent your anger on?
Pay adjustments (up as Atobe claims, or down as Scorps claims- everyone has different ideas!) are simply a matter of maintaining competitiveness, and ensuring companies do not ship out. It's better to have a slight pay cut, than to lose your job isn't it? The European Union in fact is waking up to this fact although their method (increase working hours with no increase in pay) is different. They realise now that if job flexibility isn't there, companies will simply move to another country where people are willing to work longer hours for lesser pay. It has already happened in Europe, with jobs not moving to just China or India, but Hungary, the rising manufacturing star of Europe. That's the harsh reality everyone, incuding you, has to accept. -
When i post that im not using wat u post as a reference...im refering to what the new pm says during his swearing in speech.
Tks for giving us ur pt of view, whether or not it was helpful in the government's intended objective. -
Can stop using cap when you post? Can?
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Proposed to Change To:
1. OPC cars is allowed to be driven the whole day on Saturdays
2. No Taxi Peak Period Subcharge on Saturdays
3. No Taxi City Area Subcharge on Saturdays
Wow, i can see that the discussion is slightly out of the topic. Let's be considerate for the low income earners please.
I personally agree that the government wants to emphasize on family bonding. Let's keep this simple, for those family who can afford a Off-peak car, would it be better if they can drive their love ones around to picnic etc etc, from saturday morning? Rather than wait for 3pm.
In the Taxi case, family also save some valuable money if they would took a cab to a common meeting place for gathering, during those mention period on saturday.
Any simpler comments??
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See if Saturday Traffic got go down loh. If traffic not heavy, then can drop all those you propose loh. As for taxi, not sure if Government can interfer or not. Or is it up to Taxi company?
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den what about the taxi uncles? Do they have to take pay cuts bcos of your proposed price reductions on sat?Originally posted by Qitai:See if Saturday Traffic got go down loh. If traffic not heavy, then can drop all those you propose loh. As for taxi, not sure if Government can interfer or not. Or is it up to Taxi company? -
That's why say don't know government can interfer or not mah. Or maybe should say whether they should interfer in the first place. Right now, many player good I think.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:den what about the taxi uncles? Do they have to take pay cuts bcos of your proposed price reductions on sat? -
ehh actually i referinf to the first post. click wrongly. paiseh
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I think if let say one Taxi company decides to implement this. I think the rest will follow.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:den what about the taxi uncles? Do they have to take pay cuts bcos of your proposed price reductions on sat?
We just watch and see whether this matter will be brought up or not.
As for the Off Peak car, me still think it will benefit more people. Nobody lose in this situation, only the government. So, they must really debate whether they could sacrifice some revenue to bring more harmony to the citizens. -
Originally posted by TidalWave333:
The 5-day work week is to increase family time as everyone well knows. The official number of working hours remains at 44. This means that even though most civil servants will no longer work on Saturdays, they will have to work slightly longer on weekdays to make up for not having to work on Saturdays. Hence no one is enjoying 10% more wages while working shorter hours.
This is an amusing post too
Atobe writes
Great news, after restoring the 10% cut to the wages of Ministers and most Civil Servants, they are now giving themselves a 5-Day work week to enjoy the extra 10% wages.
Is this not cleverness on the part of LHL, and being typical of the style of the Ruling Party that formed this Government - giving a little, and taking back just as much, if not MORE ?
Giving everyone the Saturday off, but making one work longer hours during the weekdays.
Is it beneficial at all ?
The working housewives will end up getting home later to prepare the meals for the family, staying up later to finish the household chores - ironing and laundering, which if not done during the weekdays, will end up as a huge pile that will have to be cleared during the weekend.
Is this the way to spend the extra day of the week 'WITH THE FAMILY' ?continuing post by TidalWave333:
The global economic situation has been rather volatile in the past few years, the Asian Financial Crisis not witstanding. One can continue to blame the government, but really, some things are really beyond anyone's control esp when Singapore is highly dependent on global trade, and exposed to global economic cycles. Still, the unemployment figure has decreased over the past two years hasn't it? From a high of 5.5% in September 2003 to 4.5% now in Sept 2004. You may also wish to compare unemployment rates of other developed and trade dependent economies currently to have some basis for comparison: Germany at 10.7%, USA at 6.3%, Indonesia at 10.5%, Malaysia at 3.4%, Hong Kong at 7.9%, UK at 5.1%. (All figures from CIA World Factbook 2004) I don't think Singapore is doing too badly, especially when the rate IS showing signs of decline year-by-year.
Atobe writes
Meanwhile, the unemployment rate remains at 4%, and is expected to remain at this level throughout 2005 and beyond.
And economic growth is anticipated to reach a high of 8-9% for 2004, making it Asia's 2nd best economy after China. Last quarter's growth was 11.9% too as reported widely in international media. Of course, it will take time for these improvements to flow down and be felt by the general populace: better wages, increased consumer confidence, more job security etc.
The unemployment figure for Singapore is now known to be 4.5% (2004); but what is the current unemployment figure for 2004, for all the countries that you have mentioned being taken from the CIA World Factbook 2004 - with the figures still referring to 2003 ( ? )
How does Singapore's present unemployment rate of 4.5% (as of August 2004) compare to the other countries that you have mentioned - if the period is also compared to August 2004 ?
Singapore's economy performed below 1% in 2003, any success when measure from such a low base will make it an astronomical figure; while China's performance in 2003 was at their all time high of 10%, and any additional increment will be much less spectacular when measured from such a high base.
Certainly it will take time for the benefits to filter out to every Singaporean, who have lost their jobs; but will it help the Singaporeans, when the simplest middle ranking jobs are also open to foreigners who are freely admitted into Singapore and accepted into being PR too ? (This has been a topic for a separate thread).
Time is the essence, and this economic crisis has been ongoing since 1985-87, ebbed and flowed during the early 1990s, became critical in 1997 and dragged through 2001 (with the 9-11 crisis), 2002-2003 (SARS) up till now.
How long more before all the recommendation from the Economic Review Committees (two committees formed in 1987 and 2003) are fully and honestly debated and implemented, with all the sacred cows killed, and "NO STONES LOOKED AT, AND CAREFULLY REPLACED" ?continuing post by TidalWave333:
Traffic congestion has always been heavy on Saturdays, (and Sundays and public holidays too!) but not for the reasons you stated- shopping, family-related recreational activities. I am not sure if having a day off means MORE people are going to rush down to queue up at govt counters instead of using the time for social and family activities. Why can't they continue to see to them during lunch hour if there is a real need for personal attention at govt buildings? Besides, with electronic online services, many things can be done in the comfort of one's home.
Atobe writes
You will be lucky if those will not be further increased, and meanwhile they must stay due to the fact that some Government Over-the-Counter Services will stay open on Saturdays - leading to heavier traffic flow when nearly everyone will adopt a 5-Day workweek.
If you believe that "Traffic congestion has always been heavy on Saturdays, (and Sundays and public holidays too!) but not for the reasons you stated- shopping, family-related recreational activities" - then what can be the cause for the traffic congestion on these Sundays and Public Holidays ?
Without making clear the reason for your statement, how can you attempt to give any speculation that there will not be more people queuing up "at govt counters instead of using the time for social and family activities" - (what social and family activities, if there are household chores as elaborated in my preceding paragraph ? )
Lunch hour ? The average lunch break is anywhere from 30 minutes to a full 60 minutes. Queuing up for food, and consuming the food will take an average of 20 to 40 minutes, leaving anywhere from 40 to 20 minutes left to transit between the workplace and the foodcourt or restaurants. Do you believe there is enough time left from the 20 to 40 minutes of the LUNCH HOUR to also travel to Government Counters to perform whatever tasks ?
Do you believe that the services offered through the e-Gov websites are such a dream that anyone can cope with ?
I do not consider myself to be computer illiterate, nor to the level of being a genius, but attempting to renew my passport took me a total of 6 hours over two separate days, and required two visits to a KODAK shop for the photos saved into a CD-Rom (costing me $11.90).
At the end of it all, I found it to be much quicker going to Immigration Building, queuing for less then 20 minutes, and spending $6 for the photo prints. The carpark was a nightmare, with too little carpark space, and traffic at the Kallang-Lavender junction has always been challenging.
This is not the only e-Gov service that has been poorly designed, and I have complained to several governent agencies concerning their e-service.
Good riddance to the e-Gov services on the WWW. -
continuing post by TidalWave333:
AWS/13th month bonuses are not directly dependent on revenue collected (hahahaha!) Bonuses are dependent on economic growth annually, while AWS is guaranteed. Perhaps you dont work for the civil service- just ask your civil servant friends.
Atobe writes
Whatever charges that have been increased will stay in place, as revenue must continue to be collected to pay for the 10% restoration of previously cut wages; as well as for the expected payment of 13 month pay at the end of 2004, and wage increase in a flexi-wage system for the Civil Service So even if the tax department collects more income tax this year, it doesnt mean that income tax officers are going to get a bigger bonus end 2004, or that it will be shared among civil servants from other ministries. (hahahaha!)
"AWS/13th month bonuses - not directly dependent on revenue collected but are dependent on economic growth annually" ?
Is this not contradictory, and typical of the 'fork tongue' manner of talking by this Government, which you seem to follow with eagerness, and the style also picked up by you ?
Sounds very logical, yet when looked carefully, is there not something missing in the statement that is meant to impress with a touch of grand confusion ?
Is the LOGIC of the statement missing ?
If there are no increase in economic activities, how can there be any Economic Growth ?
If there is ECONOMIC GROWTH - will there not be increase in revenue collected ?
In anycase, does this Government guarantee anything at all, when sacred cows can also be slaugthered in a matter of time ?
Do not forget that LHL has said "Nothing is set in stone".continuing post by TidalWave333:
I don't know about you, but most male citizens get called up 1-2 times a year, not most weekends.
Atobe writes
Count yourself lucky that you will have an extra day for fishing, if your time is not taken up by Reservist Recall Service.
You must be one of those who has never been recalled on a weekend, and then moved out immediately for the annual ICT reserve training - to simulate a real scenario of mobilising and moving into war.
Do not count on your continued blessing for too long, as it will happen during any one of your 5 year cycle - unless you are not part of the Army combat units, then there is nothing for you to crow about. -
i guess u r a civil servant.Originally posted by TidalWave333:Most private sector jobs already implement a five-day work week, especially professional ones. The government is merely keeping in line with private sector practices.
I did not state that having a five-day work week will "foster better family ties" or improve familial relationships. That's your idea, not mine.
I did say that it will 'increase family time' simply because working parents do not have to be at the office on Saturdays. It is hoped that spending more time with kids and having more opportunities to interact with them will strike a balance between career and family.
For childless couples, the govt is crossing its fingers that having regular and entire weekends to themselves may produce babies.
The idea is that the govt has taken the first step- how families bond (if at all), or if more babies are produced is entirely up to the individuals. You have already made your stand clear- you do not believe it will happen. Perhaps it will not happen for you and your family, but let's leave it to other families to decide for themselves. Many acquaintances (esp. those with families) I know are in fact very happy with the change. It is something they have wished for, for a long time. I don't see how it's 'wayang' since it's a concrete step. Perhaps you have your own frustrations and anger with the govt or some govt policy, and are looking for some issue to vent your anger on?
Pay adjustments (up as Atobe claims, or down as Scorps claims- everyone has different ideas!) are simply a matter of maintaining competitiveness, and ensuring companies do not ship out. It's better to have a slight pay cut, than to lose your job isn't it? The European Union in fact is waking up to this fact although their method (increase working hours with no increase in pay) is different. They realise now that if job flexibility isn't there, companies will simply move to another country where people are willing to work longer hours for lesser pay. It has already happened in Europe, with jobs not moving to just China or India, but Hungary, the rising manufacturing star of Europe. That's the harsh reality everyone, incuding you, has to accept. -
PART ONE
atobe writes,Is this not cleverness on the part of LHL, and being typical of the style of the Ruling Party that formed this Government - giving a little, and taking back just as much, if not MORE ?
The point is you are wrong in stating that getting Saturdays off is tantamount to working fewer hours for more money. But I do not see you acknowledging your error. For many, they are quite happy that rearranging their work schedules gives them a whole day off. Many are happy to work 30-60 mins more each weekday, instead of coming back on Saturdays. Or put in another way, people would be happy to work 9 hours from Mon-Fri (45 hours in all), than work say 40 hours from Mon-Fri, and 3 hours on Sat, 2 hours on Sun. Common sense isn't it?
Giving everyone the Saturday off, but making one work longer hours during the weekdays.
atobe writesIs it beneficial at all ?
It's certainly beneficial and welcomed by many, especally those with families, and those who would prefer to have the full weekend off. Working mothers (not housewives) may return home an hour late, but I really do not think it's a big deal (unless you insist on kicking up a fuss of course). It merely means meal schedules have to be rearranged. It's one hour we are talking about, not 5 or 6. Your exaggeration of a one hour delay resulting in "staying up later to finish the household chores - ironing and laundering, which if not done during the weekdays, will end up as a huge pile" is amusing to say the least. It appears you are trying too hard to press a point. Maybe if mothers have to work 5-6 hours longer everyday..there will be problems with household chores, but not 30 to 60 minutes more.
The working housewives will end up getting home later to prepare the meals for the family, staying up later to finish the household chores - ironing and laundering, which if not done during the weekdays, will end up as a huge pile that will have to be cleared during the weekend.
Is this the way to spend the extra day of the week 'WITH THE FAMILY' ?
atobe writes,The unemployment figure for Singapore is now known to be 4.5% (2004); but what is the current unemployment figure for 2004, for all the countries that you have mentioned being taken from the CIA World Factbook 2004 - with the figures still referring to 2003 ( ? ) How does Singapore's present unemployment rate of 4.5% (as of August 2004) compare to the other countries that you have mentioned - if the period is also compared to August 2004 ?
Most of the countries I used have maintained the unemployment rates for a long period. The figures I used are the latest ones available on an ANNUAL basis. 2004 is not over yet obviously. In all instances, they have not fallen or gone up by 1% in the latest quarter. I will quote a few here: UK is at 4.8% (from 5.1%), HK is at 7.3%, US at 5.4%. I hope these satisfy your demand for exactness So, I would say Singapore is not doing too badly.
atobe writesSingapore's economy performed below 1% in 2003
Wrong again. To be really picky (since you prefer precision), 2003's growth rate was 1.1% (above official forecasts of 0.8%). I do concede that growth from a low base does make the figure appear more spectacular. However, this does not in anyway diminish the importance of the fact that economic recovery has been made in the space of 12 months, SARS, Iraq war and all thrown in.
atobe writesCertainly it will take time for the benefits to filter out to every Singaporean, who have lost their jobs; but will it help the Singaporeans, when the simplest middle ranking jobs are also open to foreigners who are freely admitted into Singapore and accepted into being PR too ?
I really have no wish to go into this here, but briefly: that is a common misconception which has been pointed out many times. Statistically, 9 out of 10 new jobs go to Singaporeans. (I suppose you are thinking of the NTU dons and their clash with MOM.) Open borders is a reality that everyone must accept, ultimately, it is not the nationality that counts, but the skills that one has to offer. It is a bitter pill that many (including I) find hard to swallow. Would you employ a Singaporean by virtue of his nationality (or even race, gender etc), even though he does not possess the skills to perform, rather than a foreigner who is competent and trained? It's common sense isn't it? Many foreigners who take up professional jobs do so because there are simply inadequate numbers of Singaporeans trained for it (e.g R&D in biomeds and pharmaceuticals). They are NOT 'freely admitted' to become PRs, but come into three different pass categories as I am sure you already know. I do understand your concern however that many foreigners excel in our local universities, esp math science and engineering, and the number of immigrants here have caused social tension (assimilation, worries about job securities). But the alternative of not having skilled people to support and propel the economy forward is even scarier, esp when one thinks of the future. Let not your personal grouses cloud the big picture.
atobe writesIf you believe that "Traffic congestion has always been heavy on Saturdays, (and Sundays and public holidays too!) but not for the reasons you stated- shopping, family-related recreational activities" - then what can be the cause for the traffic congestion on these Sundays and Public Holidays ?
The reason you stated for traffic congestion is "Government Over-the-Counter Services will stay open on Saturdays - leading to heavier traffic flow when nearly everyone will adopt a 5-Day workweek. " The reasons I stated for perennial congestion is just that: shopping, recreational activities on weekends. These are my reasons, not yours. Perhaps I did not articulate clearly (I really hope you are not engaging in semantic games ). -
PART TWO
atobe writesWithout making clear the reason for your statement, how can you attempt to give any speculation that there will not be more people queuing up "at govt counters instead of using the time for social and family activities" - (what social and family activities, if there are household chores as elaborated in my preceding paragraph ? )
The reasons I gave are clear, perhaps you (unintentionally?) distorted it. Honestly, you don't think that an extra full Saturday off is spent doing household chores? Working mothers will reschedule their time to complete chores since they are working just up to one hour longer daily on weekdays, not five. Those with maids have no worries. Housewives have no worries. I am sure even you realise your paranoia that people coming home an hour later will result in havoc at home is a sheer exaggeration to say the least. Perhaps havoc will occur if mothers need to work past midnight everyday, but not 30-60 mins more a day. Using lunch hour to run errands is not a big deal...people do it all the time, they do it now, and they will continue to do it in the future even with Saturdays off.
atobe writese-Gov websites are such a dream that anyone can cope with ?
I do not know what you mean by "e-Gov websites are such a dream". I do not expect everyone to be computer literate, esp the elderly. That's why counters are still open for them, weekdays and Saturdays. For the rest of us who have the benefit of education, it is simply a process of learning and adapting. Of course, there will always be a need for personal attention, but this is not a common weekly occurrence and people still have the benefit of counters open on Sat. Your passport agony is amusing to say the least. That is just your experience and does says nothing more than that. I can just as easily speak of my experience when I renewed my passport: I went to the Immigration building, filled up the renewal form, paid $10 by Nets, stapled the receipt to the form, glued my pre-prepared pic on the form, and dropped it into the box. (15 mins at most) Three days letter, I collected the passport with the letter sent to me (30 mins). I do not think that is an unreasonable time.
I do not consider myself to be computer illiterate, nor to the level of being a genius, but attempting to renew my passport took me a total of 6 hours over two separate days, and required two visits to a KODAK shop for the photos saved into a CD-Rom (costing me $11.90).
atobe writesThe carpark was a nightmare, with too little carpark space, and traffic at the Kallang-Lavender junction has always been challenging.
I am not sure of the relevance of describing your parking woes here. Take the MRT which is literally next to the Immigration building? No comment.
atobe writesThis is not the only e-Gov service that has been poorly designed, and I have complained to several governent agencies concerning their e-service.
I can't help but be amused your sweeping rejection of the government and all things government (as I read in other posts, but refrained from contributing). From my personal experience living abroad, it is on par, if not better than many other countries in terms of govt e-readiness. Your assertion is also NOT validated by international surveys. In the EIC/IBM government e-rankings in 2004, Singapore ranks 7th out of 64 countries surpassing many equally advanced OECD countries, including Australia (*winks*). Perhaps you experienced Denmark's online govt services (ranked 1st in the world) and compared it to Singapore. (hahaha!
Good riddance to the e-Gov services on the WWW. )
atobe writesAWS/13th month bonuses - not directly dependent on revenue collected but are dependent on economic growth annually" ?
Read ‘NOT DIRECTLY dependent’. You really do not think collecting revenue from citizens is a significant component , esp. when Singapore has the world’s highest per capita international trade dependency do you? (or more than 2.5 times the country’s GDP) I leave you to correct your other misconceptions. Enough said.
Is this not contradictory, and typical of the 'fork tongue' manner of talking by this Government, which you seem to follow with eagerness, and the style also picked up by you ? -
I hope the five day work week is for every company .... when i will have mine
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Like that can also complain. Very hard to please man.Originally posted by Atobe:Giving everyone the Saturday off, but making one work longer hours during the weekdays.
Is it beneficial at all ? -
Not free lah.Originally posted by Atobe:Certainly it will take time for the benefits to filter out to every Singaporean, who have lost their jobs; but will it help the Singaporeans, when the simplest middle ranking jobs are also open to foreigners who are freely admitted into Singapore and accepted into being PR too ? (This has been a topic for a separate thread).
Employment pass minimum salary is $2,500 and holds acceptable degrees, professional qualifications or specialist skills.
Work Permits has to satisfy criterias and Dependency Ceiling/QuotaÂ…(I.e. Singaporean to WP holders ratio) as well as a need to pay a levy for this workers (E.g. Well known is the maid needs to pay $345 per month). So, there is some protection. To investigate if there is sufficient protection, levy on individual sector has to be looked into detail.
For more details, please check
http://www.mom.gov.sg/MOM/WPD/Procedures/2983_WP_General_Guide_26Jul04.pdf -
Man alway not happy with alot of thing....Originally posted by Qitai:Like that can also complain. Very hard to please man.
Me too!!! can don't work and got money coming in
... and have more time ??
no way!!! this is life !!! -
Originally posted by TidalWave333:
The point is you are wrong in stating that getting Saturdays off is tantamount to working fewer hours for more money. But I do not see you acknowledging your error. For many, they are quite happy that rearranging their work schedules gives them a whole day off. Many are happy to work 30-60 mins more each weekday, instead of coming back on Saturdays. Or put in another way, people would be happy to work 9 hours from Mon-Fri (45 hours in all), than work say 40 hours from Mon-Fri, and 3 hours on Sat, 2 hours on Sun. Common sense isn't it?
PART ONE
atobe writes,
Is this not cleverness on the part of LHL, and being typical of the style of the Ruling Party that formed this Government - giving a little, and taking back just as much, if not MORE ?
Giving everyone the Saturday off, but making one work longer hours during the weekdays.
Am I wrong simply on your say so ?
Are there that many Singaporeans being truly "quite happy" that this rearrangement to their work schedules will give them a whole day off, and "Many are happy to work 30-60 mins more each weekday, instead of coming back on Saturdays" ?
What is your basis for such unsubstantiated confidence in such a position ?
Does it really take common sense to make such assumptions that you have made, or is this merely a speculation of values and priorities that different individuals may have or prefer for the manner of their work and lifestyle.
You seem to display an unfounded sense of superiority with your assumptions made that will be applicable to, and agreeable by, all Singaporeans.
It was fortunate that I missed replying you earlier due to work pressures on a Saturday - despite a 5 day workweek; and by a stroke of god-send support, someone had posted a contradicting view to your assumption of the "many are quite happy with this rearrangement ".
Try reading from this thread at this sgForums - Politics :-
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=93367
continuing post by TidalWave333:
It's certainly beneficial and welcomed by many, especally those with families, and those who would prefer to have the full weekend off. Working mothers (not housewives) may return home an hour late, but I really do not think it's a big deal (unless you insist on kicking up a fuss of course). It merely means meal schedules have to be rearranged. It's one hour we are talking about, not 5 or 6. Your exaggeration of a one hour delay resulting in "staying up later to finish the household chores - ironing and laundering, which if not done during the weekdays, will end up as a huge pile" is amusing to say the least. It appears you are trying too hard to press a point. Maybe if mothers have to work 5-6 hours longer everyday..there will be problems with household chores, but not 30 to 60 minutes more.
atobe writes
Is it beneficial at all ?
The working housewives will end up getting home later to prepare the meals for the family, staying up later to finish the household chores - ironing and laundering, which if not done during the weekdays, will end up as a huge pile that will have to be cleared during the weekend.
Is this the way to spend the extra day of the week 'WITH THE FAMILY' ?
Your opinion are merely your own assumptions, and unless there are more substance to your assumptions made, it remain pure speculations on your part - as you are neither a working housewife nor a working mother.
Do you have any contact with this generation of womenfolk - age between 28 years to 48 years, married with young or teenage children ?
Do you even have an inkling of understanding of what a working mother is going through in having to cope with her job and to mother her children ?
Perhaps you come from a better endowed family with less problems faced by those having to struggle to make ends meet, and living on a COMBINED family income of less then $3,000 per month ?
continuing post by TidalWave333:
Most of the countries I used have maintained the unemployment rates for a long period. The figures I used are the latest ones available on an ANNUAL basis. 2004 is not over yet obviously. In all instances, they have not fallen or gone up by 1% in the latest quarter. I will quote a few here: UK is at 4.8% (from 5.1%), HK is at 7.3%, US at 5.4%. I hope these satisfy your demand for exactness
atobe writes,
[quote]The unemployment figure for Singapore is now known to be 4.5% (2004); but what is the current unemployment figure for 2004, for all the countries that you have mentioned being taken from the CIA World Factbook 2004 - with the figures still referring to 2003 ( ? ) How does Singapore's present unemployment rate of 4.5% (as of August 2004) compare to the other countries that you have mentioned - if the period is also compared to August 2004 ? So, I would say Singapore is not doing too badly.
If your figures are correct, it will certainly reflect Singapore's position is not to bad vis-a-vis the situation with the other countries.
Unfortunately, Singapore do not have the attributes that will help those mentioned countries - such as population and territorial size, industrial strength - which will give these countries a headstart in flexiblity of policies when dealing with their present unemployment problems.
continuing post by TidalWave333:
Wrong again. To be really picky (since you prefer precision), 2003's growth rate was 1.1% (above official forecasts of 0.8%). I do concede that growth from a low base does make the figure appear more spectacular. However, this does not in anyway diminish the importance of the fact that economic recovery has been made in the space of 12 months, SARS, Iraq war and all thrown in.
atobe writes
Singapore's economy performed below 1% in 2003
The "feel good" propaganda, and play of numbers with statistics, does not hide the fact that there remains an unemployed number of 4.5% of KNOWN Singaporeans being unemployed.
This 4.5% is only a conservative number, and the real data is perhaps too politically sensitive and damaging, it this unemployment percentage is revised to also include the larger pool of workers who have not registered with employment agencies or trade unions.
There remain a large pool of Singaporeans - covering retrenched workers, early retirees, young graduates, school dropouts - that are not fully unemployed nor are these fully employed in any long term occupation.
Are the figures released by this Government to be believable ? -
Part One - continuation
continuing post by TidalWave333:
I really have no wish to go into this here, but briefly: that is a common misconception which has been pointed out many times. Statistically, 9 out of 10 new jobs go to Singaporeans. (I suppose you are thinking of the NTU dons and their clash with MOM.) Open borders is a reality that everyone must accept, ultimately, it is not the nationality that counts, but the skills that one has to offer. It is a bitter pill that many (including I) find hard to swallow. Would you employ a Singaporean by virtue of his nationality (or even race, gender etc), even though he does not possess the skills to perform, rather than a foreigner who is competent and trained? It's common sense isn't it? Many foreigners who take up professional jobs do so because there are simply inadequate numbers of Singaporeans trained for it (e.g R&D in biomeds and pharmaceuticals). They are NOT 'freely admitted' to become PRs, but come into three different pass categories as I am sure you already know. I do understand your concern however that many foreigners excel in our local universities, esp math science and engineering, and the number of immigrants here have caused social tension (assimilation, worries about job securities). But the alternative of not having skilled people to support and propel the economy forward is even scarier, esp when one thinks of the future. Let not your personal grouses cloud the big picture.
atobe writes
Certainly it will take time for the benefits to filter out to every Singaporean, who have lost their jobs; but will it help the Singaporeans, when the simplest middle ranking jobs are also open to foreigners who are freely admitted into Singapore and accepted into being PR too ?
There is a common misconception by those who refused to listen and give the smaller pictures a chance of honest review, when the preference is in looking ONLY at the BIG PICTURE.
No one is disputing with the fact that with globalisation being the catch word for most countries to "integrate" at all tiers of economic activities, it will be the solution to the present Singapore sluggish economy.
Unfortunately, even the bigger and more advanced countries (that you have mentioned) are more "discerning" and "discriminatory" even while they have embraced the liberal principles of 'Globalization'.
Yet Singapore cannot and DO NOT even respond in kind to this two-faced policy adopted by the other advances countries.
While it is correct that where no skillful Singaporeans are available, a foreign worker will be and should be employed. Unfortunately, while it had been said that with each Single Qualified Foreign Worker being employed, there will be more then six local workers being employed too.
continuing post by TidalWave333:
The reason you stated for traffic congestion is "Government Over-the-Counter Services will stay open on Saturdays - leading to heavier traffic flow when nearly everyone will adopt a 5-Day workweek. " The reasons I stated for perennial congestion is just that: shopping, recreational activities on weekends. These are my reasons, not yours. Perhaps I did not articulate clearly (I really hope you are not engaging in semantic games
atobe writes
If you believe that "Traffic congestion has always been heavy on Saturdays, (and Sundays and public holidays too!) but not for the reasons you stated- shopping, family-related recreational activities" - then what can be the cause for the traffic congestion on these Sundays and Public Holidays ? ).
How petty can you be ?
Did I claim the following reasons for congestions to be mine: "The reasons I stated for perennial congestion is just that: shopping, recreational activities on weekends " ?
Or is this your attempt at confusing the issue that I have carefully responded on a point-by-point basis ?
This has nothing to do with semantic games, but we are discussing about Government Over-the-Counter Services staying open on a Saturday even when a 5-day work week is implemented; and how did you come to a conclusion that traffic will not get any worse, when there already exist a traffic problem even during a 6-day workweek ? -
Originally posted by TidalWave333:
The reasons I gave are clear, perhaps you (unintentionally?) distorted it. Honestly, you don't think that an extra full Saturday off is spent doing household chores? Working mothers will reschedule their time to complete chores since they are working just up to one hour longer daily on weekdays, not five. Those with maids have no worries. Housewives have no worries. I am sure even you realise your paranoia that people coming home an hour later will result in havoc at home is a sheer exaggeration to say the least. Perhaps havoc will occur if mothers need to work past midnight everyday, but not 30-60 mins more a day. Using lunch hour to run errands is not a big deal...people do it all the time, they do it now, and they will continue to do it in the future even with Saturdays off.
PART TWO
atobe writes
Without making clear the reason for your statement, how can you attempt to give any speculation that there will not be more people queuing up "at govt counters instead of using the time for social and family activities" - (what social and family activities, if there are household chores as elaborated in my preceding paragraph ? )
The reasons you gave are clear ?
Did I distort the fact when all I wrote was a simple question as follows:-
If you believe that "Traffic congestion has always been heavy on Saturdays, (and Sundays and public holidays too!) but not for the reasons you stated- shopping, family-related recreational activities" - then what can be the cause for the traffic congestion on these Sundays and Public Holidays ?
Again you do not wish to give any reasons for such an assumption, but prefer to divert attention by (again) unsubstantiated statements that I am distorting facts.
If you have not perform any "SERIOUS" household chores, how can you be in any position to pass judgmental statements that allow you to understand how the demands that the working housewives have to face daily ?
continuing post by TidalWave333:
I do not know what you mean by "e-Gov websites are such a dream". I do not expect everyone to be computer literate, esp the elderly. That's why counters are still open for them, weekdays and Saturdays. For the rest of us who have the benefit of education, it is simply a process of learning and adapting. Of course, there will always be a need for personal attention, but this is not a common weekly occurrence and people still have the benefit of counters open on Sat. Your passport agony is amusing to say the least. That is just your experience and does says nothing more than that. I can just as easily speak of my experience when I renewed my passport: I went to the Immigration building, filled up the renewal form, paid $10 by Nets, stapled the receipt to the form, glued my pre-prepared pic on the form, and dropped it into the box. (15 mins at most) Three days letter, I collected the passport with the letter sent to me (30 mins). I do not think that is an unreasonable time.
atobe writes
e-Gov websites are such a dream that anyone can cope with ?
I do not consider myself to be computer illiterate, nor to the level of being a genius, but attempting to renew my passport took me a total of 6 hours over two separate days, and required two visits to a KODAK shop for the photos saved into a CD-Rom (costing me $11.90).
Well, your last posting had you saying that in order to avoid a long queu at the Government Service Counters, it will be easier to perform the required Government Services via the Internet - which led to my response that such e-Gov services is not as easy as you claim.
The fact that it was necessary to perform your required services at the Government Service Counter, whatever the duration of time taken for your need to be completed, would already have resulted in you being added to whatever queu that exist, and the additonal workload on these Governent Workers attending to your need.
continuing post by TidalWave333:
I am not sure of the relevance of describing your parking woes here. Take the MRT which is literally next to the Immigration building? No comment.
atobe writes
The carpark was a nightmare, with too little carpark space, and traffic at the Kallang-Lavender junction has always been challenging.
Are we not continuing with our "discussion" concerning traffic congestion, or do you prefer to drop this issue ?
Will it not be adding to the traffic congestion on the working Saturday - due to a 5-day workweek ?
So your brilliance shine forth again to suggest me not to drive but use the public transport system - bus and MRT ?
Do you know that leaving my car at a Private Carpark will cost $4 for one hour in the Central Business District, MRT fares of at least $1.60 for a short distance two way round trip ?
continuing post by TidalWave333:
I can't help but be amused your sweeping rejection of the government and all things government (as I read in other posts, but refrained from contributing). From my personal experience living abroad, it is on par, if not better than many other countries in terms of govt e-readiness. Your assertion is also NOT validated by international surveys. In the EIC/IBM government e-rankings in 2004, Singapore ranks 7th out of 64 countries surpassing many equally advanced OECD countries, including Australia (*winks*). Perhaps you experienced Denmark's online govt services (ranked 1st in the world) and compared it to Singapore. (hahaha!
atobe writes
This is not the only e-Gov service that has been poorly designed, and I have complained to several governent agencies concerning their e-service.
Good riddance to the e-Gov services on the WWW. )
Whether Singapore is being on par or being ranked in whatever position in any international survey of "govt e-readiness" does not have any significant bearing, when each government work-sites are poorly designed that makes it a challenge to navigate through a myraid of pages to be filled prior to submission - such websites will be practically useless.
continuing post by TidalWave333:
Read ‘NOT DIRECTLY dependent’. You really do not think collecting revenue from citizens is a significant component , esp. when Singapore has the world’s highest per capita international trade dependency do you? (or more than 2.5 times the country’s GDP) I leave you to correct your other misconceptions. Enough said.
atobe writes
AWS/13th month bonuses - not directly dependent on revenue collected but are dependent on economic growth annually" ?
Is this not contradictory, and typical of the 'fork tongue' manner of talking by this Government, which you seem to follow with eagerness, and the style also picked up by you ?
So are you now into a game of semantics, and avoid the real issues posed to you, or do you simply have no response other then to divert attention from the issues laid out, by starting a reply into another direction ?
Do you believe that collecting revenue from citizens should be a more significant component in the tax structure ?
If collecting revenue from the citizens is critical to the revenue collection, will it not be correct to say that it is critical that it will be dependent on economic growth - whether the AWS/13th month bonus is Directly or NOT DIRECTLY 'dependent on economic growth economically' ?
So you want to enlarge this debate from revenue collection - personal tax (income or consumption tax) - to that of international trade as well ?
You certainly can move like a 'tidal wave' with your attempt to swamp one subject to another, with each different reply.
Are you gullible enough to believe that Singapore has "the world's highest per capita international trade dependency" - making it 2.5 times the country's GDP ?
Is our industrial output anywhere near that of Hongkong, Taiwan or Korea (forget Japan) ?
The numbers offered by the Government does not even make us any closer
to living a standard that is anywhere near the Swiss, let alone live the dreams of the psychological efforts put up by the Ministry of Defense.