buying original goods hurts economy
-
is piracy as worse as whoever claimed to be? think again. buying original could be worst. when we buy original goods like cds of movies and music, we have to pay $15++. i dunno but i believe that majority of the money will go to the distributors, companies and the artistes. and where are they based? in taiwan, china, usa, england, australia... expect cases like the singaporean singers and movies. so our money will likely stay aboard. thus, when we buy original goods, we're just giving our money to other countries, which are unlikely to use them to invest in singapore. actually, i really dunno about this, but it make sense to me. also, dun support piracy either as these synicate mostly are not based in singapore.
-
The way to solve counter-feiting problem is to legalise it. For example, when we cannot eradicate prostitution or gambling, we can legalise themOriginally posted by skyfoo:is piracy as worse as whoever claimed to be? think again. buying original could be worst. when we buy original goods like cds of movies and music, we have to pay $15++. i dunno but i believe that majority of the money will go to the distributors, companies and the artistes. and where are they based? in taiwan, china, usa, england, australia... expect cases like the singaporean singers and movies. so our money will likely stay aboard. thus, when we buy original goods, we're just giving our money to other countries, which are unlikely to use them to invest in singapore. actually, i really dunno about this, but it make sense to me. also, dun support piracy either as these synicate mostly are not based in singapore.
Let the counterfeitors register in a "Counterfeiter Office or Registrar" and let them pay a percentage as royalty towards an international body of authors or artists.
-
I think skyfoo is a clone.
-
*Faint*Originally posted by robertteh:The way to solve counter-feiting problem is to legalise it. For example, when we cannot eradicate prostitution or gambling, we can legalise them
Let the counterfeitors register in a "Counterfeiter Office or Registrar" and let them pay a percentage as royalty towards an international body of authors or artists.
I am speechless at your proposal
-
To:Qitai,
I think the Performing Rights Society will be too happy to collect such extra royalties from counterfeitors.
After all, counterfeitors sell by volumes and could pay quite substantially if volumes are large. So my idea is actually quite practical. -
*Double Faint*Originally posted by robertteh:To:Qitai,
I think the Performing Rights Society will be too happy to collect such extra royalties from counterfeitors.
After all, counterfeitors sell by volumes and could pay quite substantially if volumes are large. So my idea is actually quite practical.
Shakes head and walk off -
yes, pirates sell by volumes but they also undercut legitimate vendors. the percentage that they agree to share with the ones who owns the rights would be insignificant compared to when they sell software through proper channels.Originally posted by robertteh:To:Qitai,
I think the Performing Rights Society will be too happy to collect such extra royalties from counterfeitors.
After all, counterfeitors sell by volumes and could pay quite substantially if volumes are large. So my idea is actually quite practical.
say i sell a software for $1000 and my vendor is entitled to a 20% commission, i get $800... these 800 goes towards packaging, distribution, marketing and future R & D...
but if i let pirates sell it, they sell 1 CD for $5 to $8... if i take 20% from them, eh... enough for kopi and kaya toast only leh... yah lah... u multiply by 100, 1000 or 10 000, it adds up, but the point is, u are making a loss!
sell so many, get so little in return only???
i dun like the way software companies overcharges as well... but i think they have a point... a great deal of hard work and resources went into making the software. so if its all that good, and especially if u are making money with the software, u SHOULD be paying the full price for it... -
ok, another thing. u can go around ask any singers what they really want, money or more ppls to listen to their music. i believe 90% will choose the latter. if so, by buying pirated cds or downloading the songs, it is because we like their music. and this is what they want. win-win situation, they got their appreciation and we got our songs(cheaper).
-
can't catch the thieves so let them register and pay part of their loots back to the owner.....problem solves????Originally posted by robertteh:The way to solve counter-feiting problem is to legalise it. For example, when we cannot eradicate prostitution or gambling, we can legalise them
Let the counterfeitors register in a "Counterfeiter Office or Registrar" and let them pay a percentage as royalty towards an international body of authors or artists.
Speechless!!!
-
I will support the artist I like by buying their original cds.
-
If you go around asking, most employees want their boss to appreciate their work. So if they are underpaid its because their boss like their work. Its a win-win situation, the employees get their appreciation and the boss save on costs.Originally posted by skyfoo:ok, another thing. u can go around ask any singers what they really want, money or more ppls to listen to their music. i believe 90% will choose the latter. if so, by buying pirated cds or downloading the songs, it is because we like their music. and this is what they want. win-win situation, they got their appreciation and we got our songs(cheaper). -
George Clooney was asked once if he choose to act in a movie based on the script or the money. He said as an artist he choose the script he likes, but if they pay him US$20million, which is crazy, but why not? How much to price the 'Hard work'? The rich get richer, the poor gets poorer.Originally posted by CX:yes, pirates sell by volumes but they also undercut legitimate vendors. the percentage that they agree to share with the ones who owns the rights would be insignificant compared to when they sell software through proper channels.
say i sell a software for $1000 and my vendor is entitled to a 20% commission, i get $800... these 800 goes towards packaging, distribution, marketing and future R & D...
but if i let pirates sell it, they sell 1 CD for $5 to $8... if i take 20% from them, eh... enough for kopi and kaya toast only leh... yah lah... u multiply by 100, 1000 or 10 000, it adds up, but the point is, u are making a loss!
sell so many, get so little in return only???
i dun like the way software companies overcharges as well... but i think they have a point... a great deal of hard work and resources went into making the software. so if its all that good, and especially if u are making money with the software, u SHOULD be paying the full price for it...
The original sound track of Jay chou is sold at 20 RMB which is about S$4.16. It is sold here at S$19.90 here. If you can pay, they charge you more. Nothing to do with the 'hardwork'.
How many people/companies buy original microsoft windows to lean how to use WORDS and EXCEL?? The pirated copies actually helped microsoft promote their software. Bill Gates is already very very rich. The rich gets richer, the poor gets poor.
If not for the pirated VCD, the prices of the original VCD and DVD will still be around $$60.
The pirated CD vendors are still thieves, but who said Robin Hood is not a thief? Thieves are not necessarily bad!!
-
These commercial companies set their prices at a level that the market is willing to pay; pirated copies only serve to depress this price, and prevent these companies from setting ridiculous prices.
I believe that the presence of CD pirates is a matter of a natural response towards checking the market, no matter how illegal it is. The only way to eliminate this syndrome would be for the copyright holders to licence their intellectual properties at an even more realistic prices -- they are reaping tons of profit as it is, and keeping most of it in their coffers, giving a minute amount to the artistes. Paying more would only result in profitting these companies, not helping the artistes. -
How will the artist benefit when pirates dont pay any royalties to the artist ?
The price difference between the cost of pirate producing a cd and sales price of the original does not take into account the marketing and costs of grooming an artist. Will the production companies be profitable if they sell their products at the price of the pirates ? Do the pirates give any guarantee of quality ?
Ultimately the consumer will suffer because of piracy because a smaller profit will give recording companies less incentive to groom new artists and produce a wider variety of music. Are the pirates going to do that with their profits ?
Piracy is a crime. Do not support piracy. -
The original Rolex is sold at thousand of dollars.
China is making 99 % of Rolex mechanism except for certain critical parts and is willing to sell near to orginal Rolex at one third of original Rolex price.
The same goes for cars and many other products of high quality. Is there profiteering by original producers or manufacturers of various products? It seems that once a company is able to succeed in a particular line of product like Mercedes or Toyota, it is unlikely to price its products fairly but will capitalize on its marketing success to charge higher and higher.
Consumers will need protections against profiteering. Higher end profiteering is often not recognized but only the lower end profiteering that may support the whole population of its nascent or fledgering industries.
That may be one of the reasons why certain developing or newly developed countries are not very keen in subscribing to international copyright conventions. -
think beyond the mundane stuff that we use every day... how about 3D modelling software? autocad? flash? software that have a very specific industrial or commercial application and whose purchase adds tremendous value to a company.Originally posted by sgdiehard:How many people/companies buy original microsoft windows to lean how to use WORDS and EXCEL?? The pirated copies actually helped microsoft promote their software. Bill Gates is already very very rich. The rich gets richer, the poor gets poor.
these are not software that the average consumer needs to buy... many may not know how to use them even... but companies who use them, use them to make a lot of money.
i can't build a house if i don't buy bricks. if i have built a house with the bricks ordered from a supplier and i am happily living in the house, is it right that i decide not to pay the brick supplier later?
morever, don't assume that all software are made by millionaire programmers... millionaire scums like Bill Gates makes tons of money because they pay their people crap and outsource functions to places with lower costs, like india. -
You are right, those are not the kind of software normal persons would buy so its impact is purely business. Now I cannot buy a typewriter anymore, have to buy a desktop, then have to use Windows, have to use words......this is an average person talking.Originally posted by CX:think beyond the mundane stuff that we use every day... how about 3D modelling software? autocad? flash? software that have a very specific industrial or commercial application and whose purchase adds tremendous value to a company.
these are not software that the average consumer needs to buy... many may not know how to use them even... but companies who use them, use them to make a lot of money.
i can't build a house if i don't buy bricks. if i have built a house with the bricks ordered from a supplier and i am happily living in the house, is it right that i decide not to pay the brick supplier later?
morever, don't assume that all software are made by millionaire programmers... millionaire scums like Bill Gates makes tons of money because they pay their people crap and outsource functions to places with lower costs, like india.
I don't know who write the program, and I don't care. It is the companies who pay crap to their people, not the users!! and if the users buy more originals, do you think Bill Gates will pay their people more?? They outsource to increase their profits, not to increase their staff pays!! In fact, if their staff pays are high, then they will outsource. So, buy originals and pay them more?? -
Of course pirates don't pay any royalties to the artistes! They keep the profits for their own nefarious activities! You are right, piracy IS a crime, and should never be condoned.Originally posted by The Barracuda:How will the artist benefit when pirates dont pay any royalties to the artist ?
The price difference between the cost of pirate producing a cd and sales price of the original does not take into account the marketing and costs of grooming an artist. Will the production companies be profitable if they sell their products at the price of the pirates ? Do the pirates give any guarantee of quality ?
Ultimately the consumer will suffer because of piracy because a smaller profit will give recording companies less incentive to groom new artists and produce a wider variety of music. Are the pirates going to do that with their profits ?
Piracy is a crime. Do not support piracy.
What I am trying to say is that piracy is a natural consequence of artificially high prices for the original products. It is plain theft outright.
To counter them, the recording companies need to come up with a fairer price for the market. If they find it reasonable, there is no way piracy can survive. -
employees work becoz of the money. singers sing because of their interests. diff cases.Originally posted by paperchicken:If you go around asking, most employees want their boss to appreciate their work. So if they are underpaid its because their boss like their work. Its a win-win situation, the employees get their appreciation and the boss save on costs. -
actually downloading is more practical, we can get the programs for free. when we pay for originals and pirated, we're giving away money. even without singapore's contribution, they will go on, no matter software, movies or music. why dun we spend the money on other things like food, clothes... and boost singapore's economy?
-
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
you'll be surprised how many pple are still using typewriters... look in a stationary store... they still sell typewriter ribbons.
You are right, those are not the kind of software normal persons would buy so its impact is purely business. Now I cannot buy a typewriter anymore, have to buy a desktop, then have to use Windows, have to use words......this is an average person talking.
ok... so u wanna use a computer to type? why not? buy a full system, it comes with Windows and it will be licensed. must u use MS Word? actually no... u have Word Pad. so technically, no need to pirate if all u need are basic functionalities.
of course, its never good enough... must have the latest version of Win XP Pro, Office XP Pro and every other cool sounding software the friendly neighbourhood pirate is selling...I don't know who write the program, and I don't care. It is the companies who pay crap to their people, not the users!!
??? so... u think software just appears out of nowhere, without requiring R & D, without requiring labour?
either way, its still gonna cost money and consumers are gonna have to end up paying for it. there is a certain degree of ambivalence regarding exactly how much software should cost to the average home user, but i don't think there's any confusion that business users have no business pirating software.and if the users buy more originals, do you think Bill Gates will pay their people more?? They outsource to increase their profits, not to increase their staff pays!! In fact, if their staff pays are high, then they will outsource. So, buy originals and pay them more??
nope... most likely not... but a good programmer that isn't as rich as bill gates will probably never make any money to make his innovation worthwhile cos pple just wanna steal his product and not pay him.
[/quote] -
Word Pad also comes from Windows, you also need Window Explorer....can you see the world of computer is monopolisied by Microsoft!! No need XP Pro, how much do the U students need to pay to have a computer, without the pirated copies sold in the past, you think Microsoft will offer student package!! The presence of alternative is a market force, it is the market force that bring prices down, we see in the airline industry, cheap air ticket even at the time when oil prices are at record high. There are competitions among the printers producers, nobody make immitation printer. Pirated software is a market force at work!! Without which, we will be paying very high prices for software!Originally posted by CX:you'll be surprised how many pple are still using typewriters... look in a stationary store... they still sell typewriter ribbons.
ok... so u wanna use a computer to type? why not? buy a full system, it comes with Windows and it will be licensed. must u use MS Word? actually no... u have Word Pad. so technically, no need to pirate if all u need are basic functionalities.
of course, its never good enough... must have the latest version of Win XP Pro, Office XP Pro and every other cool sounding software the friendly neighbourhood pirate is selling...
I said I din care who wrote the software, I din imply nobody need to write them. The copy rights belong to Microsoft, or other companies, not the writers!!!
??? so... u think software just appears out of nowhere, without requiring R & D, without requiring labour?
either way, its still gonna cost money and consumers are gonna have to end up paying for it. there is a certain degree of ambivalence regarding exactly how much software should cost to the average home user, but i don't think there's any confusion that business users have no business pirating software.
I am not arguing for the business users to use pirated copies. Don't confuse between home endusers and companies, and software programmers and software companies!!
Programmers either sell their innovation to companies and make the money first, or they are working for the companies which mean they are paid first before even writing any usable softwares. Robin Hood din steal from the farmers, he stole from the rich!! Who owns the rights to these software, the poor programmers??
nope... most likely not... but a good programmer that isn't as rich as bill gates will probably never make any money to make his innovation worthwhile cos pple just wanna steal his product and not pay him.
[/b][/quote] -
Singapore is a member of WTO. If we do not respect copyrights and fight piracy do you think other countries will trade with us ? Where is your food and clothes going to come from ?Originally posted by skyfoo:actually downloading is more practical, we can get the programs for free. when we pay for originals and pirated, we're giving away money. even without singapore's contribution, they will go on, no matter software, movies or music. why dun we spend the money on other things like food, clothes... and boost singapore's economy? -
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
what talking you??? Explorer, Internet Explorer, Word Pad, media player all comes packaged with windows...
Word Pad also comes from Windows, you also need Window Explorer....can you see the world of computer is monopolisied by Microsoft!!
if u dowan to pay for MS windows, there's Linux... don't say there are no alternatives... there are just no alternatives YOU like better than pirated windows.No need XP Pro, how much do the U students need to pay to have a computer, without the pirated copies sold in the past, you think Microsoft will offer student package!!
yes, they do offer student package and student price... just gotta show your matric card. but no question about it, its still more ex than pirated software.
laptops are also sold on campus and the all come packaged with software.The presence of alternative is a market force, it is the market force that bring prices down, we see in the airline industry, cheap air ticket even at the time when oil prices are at record high. There are competitions among the printers producers, nobody make immitation printer. Pirated software is a market force at work!! Without which, we will be paying very high prices for software!
basic law of economics: bad money drives out good money. if u have counterfeits in the market, soon enough, most of the money circulated will be counterfeits cos people will just start to hoard the legal tender.
with pirated software, u are basically offering a cheap alternative by under-cutting the original producers. they R & D, they market, they produce and in the end, pirates sell and they get nothing. in the long run, it will just stifle innovation and be bad for consumers. it is not an economic alternative... it is counterfeiting, and theft.I said I din care who wrote the software, I din imply nobody need to write them. The copy rights belong to Microsoft, or other companies, not the writers!!!
ok... we have no confusion between home and business users. we both agree they should pay for software.
I am not arguing for the business users to use pirated copies. Don't confuse between home endusers and companies, and software programmers and software companies!!
Programmers either sell their innovation to companies and make the money first, or they are working for the companies which mean they are paid first before even writing any usable softwares. [/quote]
and why do they have to resort to selling it to big companies instead of developing it themselves? easy money? quick buck?
or the fact that they know they CANNOT protect their codes from pirates?Robin Hood din steal from the farmers, he stole from the rich!! Who owns the rights to these software, the poor programmers??
a thief is a thief is a thief... stealing from anyone is a crime. if u steal from the rich, he doesn't give away the rest of his wealth... he acquires more of it by squeezing the poor even more.
i understand that we are both stating a case that it is understandable for home users to use pirated software.
but how much cheaper can licensed software get? till it matches the street price of pirated CDs? no way... not unless u're willing to compromise on quality and after-sales support (no call center, no online updates, no documentation, no support of any kind... gee... if liddat, i'll rather use linux man
)
competition in the form of different software companies offering different products is "alternative"... such competition breed product diversity, gives consumers choices and in a bid to sell, better products are made.
piracy undercuts such competition. companies will have no incentive to innovate because pirates will end up making the money from it. -
we should all drive imitation Nissan, Honda and Mitsubishi.
live in houses built by imitation bricks, use imitation tiles for renovation,
feed imitation milk powder to our infants, consume imitation drugs when we are sick, cook with imitation teflon pans,
this way we can definitely bring the cost of living down....