Question for Singapore Malays
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Do you think it is better to be a Malaysian Malay or Singapore Malay?
Recently our former PM (Dr. M) said that Singapore Malay are poor treated, they have no status and no chance to be govt minister, is it true?
I am Malaysian. -
y do u wanna know?? u should come here to experience it first hand...answer from others r not reliable enuf
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singaporean malays have good life
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I think majority of Malaysian Malays agree with our former PM that Malaysian Malays are more fortunate than Singapore's Malays. I just like to know if Singaporean Malays thinking the same or otherwise?
I am not Singaporean Malays, it is hard for me to experience how they feel about themself, that's why I am asking here.
However, it seem like there are not too many Singaporean Malays here in this forum......that can answer my question.
Anyone know which forum have Singaporean Malays actively participate? -
why do you want to find out?
u can easily find it out by asking your own country immigration authority.
Reason: All u need to do is to do a check on how many Singaporean Malay actually migrated to Msia. Since u believe malay at your side is better off, I bet the malays here, if they believe so, would have taken the step to move across the causeway in that case.
Apparently, I dont see that happening. They seems to be happy.
We have malay minister mind u.
We have malay army officer too ok.
Whoever is capable will be given important appointment regardless of race, language or religion. -
Actually I thought the same, Singaporean Malay should be happy to live in Singapore than otherwise......but both of us are not Singaporean Malays, we still don't know what they think? I really hope there are some Singaporean Malays here can answer the question and enlighten me here.Originally posted by incredible:why do you want to find out?
u can easily find it out by asking your own country immigration authority.
Reason: All u need to do is to do a check on how many Singaporean Malay actually migrated to Msia. Since u believe malay at your side is better off, I bet the malays here, if they believe so, would have taken the step to move across the causeway in that case.
Apparently, I dont see that happening. They seems to be happy.
We have malay minister mind u.
We have malay army officer too ok.
Whoever is capable will be given important appointment regardless of race, language or religion. -
Hello Burntan
I am not Malay but I'll contribute my two cents' worth:
You are mistaken when you say there are no Malay government ministers.
In fact there is 1 Malay Cabinet Minister and 12 other Malay Members-of-Parliament (MPs) out of 84 MPs. That means Malay MPs have 15.5% of the seats in a population where they make up 14%.
If you take Indian/Tamil cabinet ministers and MPs into consideration, they hold 9 seats in parliament (or 10.7%) in a population where they make up 8%.
My figures are from www.gov.sg
Overall, ethnic minorities actually have a slightly higher representation in parliament.
I concur with Incredible in his observation: unlike Malaysia where the bumiputra policy is applied (especially in politics and civil service) and the BN coalition government led by UMNO allocates cabinet seats based on race/political party, Singapore allocates them based on capability, regardless of race, religion or gender.
As for them being poorly treated, and having 'no status' (whatever that means), Singaporean Malays are (1) much wealthier than their Malaysian counterparts statistically, (2) can be found in all occupations, and all management levels, (3) have made great strides in education right up to university. In addition, they (4) also speak English unlike their Malaysian counterparts where more than 90% of Malay graduates have difficulty finding jobs due to their university majors, and their lack of fluency in English (according to The New Straits Times and The Star). My observations are also that Singaporeans of all races integrate socially far better than Malaysians. (Or maybe I am reading too much into Malaysian implementation of national service recently, and what has been going on in those camps as reported by Malaysian papers.)
Social discrimination may still exist in pockets of the population. And it will take time, education, and a stronger Singaporean identity before this diminishes. Like all countries in the world especially multiracial/multicultural ones, Singapore cannot claim to have eradicted racism or ethnic tension completely. This is why the government manages ethnic relations very carefully, and topics on race and religion are handled sensitively.
With the exception of the race riots in 1969 (a blot on Singapore's national history), we are certainly not plagued by (1) violent acts of racism (burning of Chinese restaurants and destruction of Jewish property in Perth, or white policemen beating up black Americans in the US or targetting of Chinese Indonesians during the Asian financial crisis), (2) racial politics (Pauline Hanson and One Nation in Australia), or (3) racial tension (white cops making formal complaints that non-whites are being promoted because of their race in the UK). These are just a few race stories regularly reported in the international and local media e.g. UK's The Guardian newspaper.
Are Singaporean or Malaysian Malays in a better position? Well that depends on individual perspective ultimately. Malaysian Malays certainly get more opportunities in universities (even though racial quotas no longer apply) and civil service jobs by virtue of their race....while the Singaporean Malay has to compete with everyone else.
An interesting story was published in the The New Paper two/three days ago: a Singaporean Malay family was attacked by nine men with metal rods in their car in Johor without provocation. The bunch of criminals told the Singaporean family in Malay:
"Jangan besar kepala. Ini Malaysia bukannya Singapore (Do not be arrogant. This is Malaysia, not Singapore)."
I guess there is resentment even among Malays of different nationalities in this instance too. (The criminals are now wanted by the Johor police.) I leave you to reach your own conclusions on the matter.
I hope this helps. (If you are working on a school assignment, you will need to do more research than this though.
) -
since decades ago, dr. mahatir had been telling singapore's malays that they are badly treated. if it is so, there would not be any malays in singapore now.
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Agree !! + 1Originally posted by TidalWave333:Hello Burntan
I am not Malay but I'll contribute my two cents' worth:
You are mistaken when you say there are no Malay government ministers.
In fact there is 1 Malay Cabinet Minister and 12 other Malay Members-of-Parliament (MPs) out of 84 MPs. That means Malay MPs have 15.5% of the seats in a population where they make up 14%.
If you take Indian/Tamil cabinet ministers and MPs into consideration, they hold 9 seats in parliament (or 10.7%) in a population where they make up 8%.
My figures are from www.gov.sg
Overall, ethnic minorities actually have a slightly higher representation in parliament.
I concur with Incredible in his observation: unlike Malaysia where the bumiputra policy is applied (especially in politics and civil service) and the BN coalition government led by UMNO allocates cabinet seats based on race, Singapore allocates them based on capability, regardless of race, religion or gender.
As for them being poorly treated, and having 'no status' (whatever that means), Singaporean Malays are (1) much wealthier than their Malaysian counterparts statistically, (2) can be found in all occupations, and all management levels, (3) have made great strides in education right up to university. In addition, they (4) also speak English unlike their Malaysian counterparts where more than 90% of Malay graduates have difficulty finding jobs due to their university majors, and their lack of fluency in English (according to The New Straits Times and The Star). My observations are also that Singaporeans of all races integrate socially far better than Malaysians. (Or maybe I am reading too much into Malaysian implementation of national service recently, and what has been going on in those camps as reported by Malaysian papers.)
Social discrimination may still exist in pockets of the population. And it will take time, education, and a stronger Singaporean identity before this diminishes. Like all countries in the world especially multiracial/multicultural ones, Singapore cannot claim to have eradicted racism or ethnic tension completely. This is why the government manages ethnic relations very carefully, and topics on race and religion are handled sensitively.
With the exception of the race riots in 1969 (a blot on Singapore's national history), we are certainly not plagued by (1) violent acts of racism (burning of Chinese restaurants and destruction of Jewish property in Perth, or white policemen beating up black Americans in the US or targetting of Chinese Indonesians during the Asian financial crisis), (2) racial politics (Pauline Hanson and One Nation in Australia or consociational politics in Malaysia), or (3) racial tension (white cops making formal complaints that non-whites are being promoted because of their race in the UK). These are just a few race stories regularly reported in the international and local media e.g. UK's The Guardian newspaper.
I hope this helps. (If you are working on a school assignment, you will need to do more research than this though. )
Singapore Malays are very happy , Ask Serial Box,
Recently , Dr Mahathir have complained that M'sia malays are slacking abit..
and losing to chinese counterparts, thats why the racial quota..
In SG, we still have benefits provided for them in the constitution,
they receive free education as well.
Not only that, Singapore Malays as well as Chinese, who ALSO do not receive any other benefits, they have been "Trained" as in...fight for themselves..
Singapore's PCI is about $38,000++ and Malaysia's PCI is far lower then that..
So on average , a Singapore Malay eats well , own a HDB flat , which is worth hundreds of thousands and no doubt, won't have any problem buying a large bungalow in johor.
Read up on s'pore malays owning terrace and bungalows in Johor, quite alot do ya know that?
We also provide world class medical care, world class education,
students in USA also using our locally developed textbooks,
not only that, we develope army tanks (made in singapore) vehicles
in comparison to your "proton"
With Regards to Petronas, We got a SPC Oil Refinery in Jurong Island,
we got number 1 airport,sea port, and No.1 Oil Refinery
and Temasek Holdings which has over $52 billion in holdings.
So , i think more malaysian malays should migrate over to SG!
Frankly SG is more beneficial to you in the long term,
we got a efficient police force, although land force which is the only bad thing,
a world-class military consisting of many military personnel and one of the most highly defended places in the world.
We do earn alot of $$ as well. My relatives in johor msia come to singapore to work..earn $15,000 SGD per month..go back get $30,000 + RM..
Our government is non-corrupted and the highways are well-lighted up
and basically u can walk around in 2 am and wear gold jewellery and not get robbed.
Furthermore, Malays here are VERY VERY highly educated!
And BTW, we can treat EX-DPM Anwar better then the treatment he's receiving in Germany.. And Indonesia's recent blast..those fortunate victims managed to be saved by our doctors..
And Johor Datuk's kids from UMNO also comes here and study..
(1 fact you didn't know)
China and India students also come here and studies..
A Singapore Degree can command alot of pay as well..
so what are you waiting for? -
SibeiSuayKia
I don't know if your post was flippant, sarcastic or earnest.
But it was definitely NOT very helpful.
This is precisely the kind of blatant, "in-your-face" arrogance that makes other countries detest us. You need to have more humility, and stop giving foreigners more ammunition. -
Looking at the other threads here and in other forums, including YP Forum, quite a handful of the points you mentioned are questionable.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Agree !! + 1
Singapore Malays are very happy , Ask Serial Box,
Recently , Dr Mahathir have complained that M'sia malays are slacking abit..
and losing to chinese counterparts, thats why the racial quota..
In SG, we still have benefits provided for them in the constitution,
they receive free education as well.
Not only that, Singapore Malays as well as Chinese, who ALSO do not receive any other benefits, they have been "Trained" as in...fight for themselves..
Singapore's PCI is about $38,000++ and Malaysia's PCI is far lower then that..
So on average , a Singapore Malay eats well , own a HDB flat , which is worth hundreds of thousands and no doubt, won't have any problem buying a large bungalow in johor.
Read up on s'pore malays owning terrace and bungalows in Johor, quite alot do ya know that?
We also provide world class medical care, world class education,
students in USA also using our locally developed textbooks,
not only that, we develope army tanks (made in singapore) vehicles
in comparison to your "proton"
With Regards to Petronas, We got a SPC Oil Refinery in Jurong Island,
we got number 1 airport,sea port, and No.1 Oil Refinery
and Temasek Holdings which has over $52 billion in holdings.
So , i think more malaysian malays should migrate over to SG!
Frankly SG is more beneficial to you in the long term,
we got a efficient police force, although land force which is the only bad thing,
a world-class military consisting of many military personnel and one of the most highly defended places in the world.
We do earn alot of $$ as well. My relatives in johor msia come to singapore to work..earn $15,000 SGD per month..go back get $30,000 + RM..
Our government is non-corrupted and the highways are well-lighted up
and basically u can walk around in 2 am and wear gold jewellery and not get robbed.
Furthermore, Malays here are VERY VERY highly educated!
And BTW, we can treat EX-DPM Anwar better then the treatment he's receiving in Germany.. And Indonesia's recent blast..those fortunate victims managed to be saved by our doctors..
And Johor Datuk's kids from UMNO also comes here and study..
(1 fact you didn't know)
China and India students also come here and studies..
A Singapore Degree can command alot of pay as well..
so what are you waiting for?
Any way, I am sure that most Malays in SIngapore feel at a least a little perturbed that the Government in Singapore didn't even consult them before launching into support of the disastrous American Operation Iraqi Liberation. *sigh*
the pikamaster (who is less than convinced about Sg's goddness) -
Pikamaster writes
Any way, I am sure that most Malays in SIngapore feel at a least a little perturbed that the Government in Singapore didn't even consult them before launching into support of the disastrous American Operation Iraqi Liberation. *sigh*
Some issues are open for feedback. Issues like foreign policy and defence are not. Were any other ethnic groups consulted for that matter? Besides, the SAF's involvement was not in direct combat.
Terrorist issues in the past few years have demonstrated that Singapore is more pragmatic than anything else. Sensitivity is essential of course, but sometimes, one is left with little choice in realpolitik.
I am not a supporter of the invasion and occupation by the way. But close military ties with the US, sensitivity towards two large Muslim neighbours, national interests make a tricky balance.
Were you hoping the govt would consult and gather feedback from the Malay community BEFORE arresting the 30+ JI members planning to attack here: videotaping Yishun MRT, and preparing maps, and even English voiceovers?
Did you think the Malaysian govt consulted its Malay citizens before they arrested JI members across the border for that matter!? -
What you expect me to say?Originally posted by TidalWave333:SibeiSuayKia
I don't know if your post was flippant, sarcastic or earnest.
But it was definitely NOT very helpful.
This is precisely the kind of blatant, "in-your-face" arrogance that makes other countries detest us. You need to have more humility, and stop giving foreigners more ammunition.
Selamat Datang Singapura?
supporting USA has it's benefits for us singapore..
other then FTA , it will reflect singapore's commitment towards the friendship with the world's strongest nation.
Whats wrong?
Im sure Singapore Malays would approve of it as well
BUT..proven
1. Without those bloodshed.
2. Only a military coup taken to oust saddam
3. Full withdrawal of troops after taking saddam
4. Prove that Iraq indeed has nukes
I , for one do not agree with the Iraq war, but just look at France , which opposed the Iraq war, some blacksheeps are calling them some nasty nicknames..because they did not return favour for them liberating France in WWII , my only hope remains for world peace.
I don't see it as arrogance, It only shows how we fare on the outside world, and how we fare with others.
[Statistics] is the key. -
I do not normally post my opinions or thoughts in this forum, but I will make this an exception. Let me introduce myself as a Singaporean Malay Muslim.
There are no distinct differences between a Malaysian Malay or a Singaporean Malay except that we are of different nationalities and the fact remains that Malaysian Malays do get special concessions for being born a Malay. Apart from that, both Singapore and Malaysia are countries that do not practice nepotism, and one progresses through one's merits.
I am proud to be a Singaporean Malay and would not want it any other way. -
Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:
Maybe you want to consider producing stats on Singapore Malays rather than Singaporeans.
[b][Statistics] is the key.[/b]
You stats are not convincing unless it is directed specifically at Malays since the question here is about Singaporean Malays and not just Singaporean. -
Thank you for your reply.Originally posted by farhanisha:I do not normally post my opinions or thoughts in this forum, but I will make this an exception. Let me introduce myself as a Singaporean Malay Muslim.
There are no distinct differences between a Malaysian Malay or a Singaporean Malay except that we are of different nationalities and the fact remains that Malaysian Malays do get special concessions for being born a Malay. Apart from that, both Singapore and Malaysia are countries that do not practice nepotism, and one progresses through one's merits.
I am proud to be a Singaporean Malay and would not want it any other way.
Do you mean that Singaporean Malay are generally NOT poorly treated in Singapore? They do not need "special concessions" to be fair? -
Originally posted by burntan:
If you want to start a race war you can do it in KL or Malaysia forum.
Thank you for your reply.
Do you mean that Singaporean Malay are generally [b]NOT poorly treated in Singapore? They do not need "special concessions" to be fair?[/b]
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singapore aso has its bad points its jus tat u nvr c it... no single country is perfect...
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Originally posted by burntan:
Errr why should the Malays be poorly treated in Singapore? They are given equal chance and opportunity to excel in whatever they do as the other races in Singapore.
Thank you for your reply.
Do you mean that Singaporean Malay are generally [b]NOT poorly treated in Singapore? They do not need "special concessions" to be fair?[/b]
I agree that they have certain benefits which is due to a treaty signed way back in the past, but in all honesty, why would they need special concessions to be on par with the other races when they are equally capable?
I think the Malays here in Singapore are capable enough to stand on their own feet and they have been progressing very well through the years. In my own opinion, giving special concessions will only hinder the process of any race. As humans being humans will abuse it instead of making use of it as a head start.
I don't see "no special concessions" as being treated poorly. How can that be? We, as Singaporeans, though of different races, can run and forge ahead as equals. Isn't that better? -
Originally posted by burntan:
It depends on what you mean by the terms "poorly treated" and "special concessions"... Granted Singapore Malays do enjoy at least one special concession in terms of education. I believe Malay students pay less than the counterparts from the other races (if I am wrong here, please correct me).
Thank you for your reply.
Do you mean that Singaporean Malay are generally [b]NOT poorly treated in Singapore? They do not need "special concessions" to be fair?[/b]
Other than that, there are no special concessions. No one (except for some really bigotted individuals) treat the other races unfairly.
To reverse the questions, do you think Malaysian Chinese are more unfairly treated when compared to Malaysian Malays? As I understand (again I may be wrong) each retail shop has to employ at least one Malay staff, if this isn't a unfair method to ensure work among those who prefer a more relak lifestyle, I don't know what it is. I have also heard from my Malaysian Chinese customers that in order for them to do business, the need support from the Bumiputras.
I can tell you for a fact that most Malays in Singapore owning HDB flats has renovation done to the flats that will put a Chinese family to shame. While many Malays have selected a more frugal lifestyle (which to me is wise), they will unabashely spend on a lavish home and smart clothing.
So good ole Dr M need to explain what "poorly treated" means. If he means that Singapore do not treat our Malays better than the Chinese, than he is right. We treat each other fairly and equally. -
I read from other threads in this forum and find out that people talking about primary school fee.....it is not actually absolutely equal in Singapore right? Correct me if I am wrong.
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Originally posted by burntan:
As someone had stated in an earlier note, has got to do with some historical event. Could also be at one point, the Malays were seen to be financially needy, therefore the school fee is lower. Why is it not changed? Probably a sensitive issue. May also be a way to remember the fact that Malays are seen to be the original race of Singapura.
I read from other threads in this forum and find out that people talking about primary school fee.....it is not actually [b]absolutely equal in Singapore right? Correct me if I am wrong.[/b]
There will always be those living below the poverty line, not just Malays. Some Malay homes I've been to looked like palaces. -
Also consider the fact that Malay is the national language and our national anthem is in Malay.... one can see how much we value the Malay culture and historical linkages.
At the end of the day, it is meritocracy that works. We want something? We work for it the traditional way - we work for it. No handouts, no sympathy. -
Singapore Malay gets free education from primary school right up to university.
Other races in Singapore pay fees from secondary school onwards.
I do not know how you are going to read this. Care to comment? -
I am thinking that this ruling may be sensible sometime in the past, but right now, it doesn't really make sense.
However I do not think the gov will do anything about it. If anything is to be done, it will have to come out from the Malay MPs who can now decide that the Malay race is now good and capable to pay school fees.
Still with the current climate of increasing suspicion on Islamic radicals, it is probable that the school fees issue will remain status quo.