Why be a Singaporean?
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what's "bearish about democracy "?
about apathy, even at work, i face things like this... because the big boss tells them to do it, they don't even question... they just do it.. and become very defensive when they know it's terrible and unethical..
they turn around to those who question and say "the boss told me to do it "...
"the gabrament say one... "
or they just don't care...
is that apathy? coz they don't post anything and are not active in the internet... these are ordinary people... and sadly, the majority who do not even attempt to voice out anything, but will just shrug their shoulders and do what they are told...
trying to get them to do something to save themselves is almost next to impossible.. what more to ask them stick out their necks for their neighbours?
give them democracy?
democracy is earned..Originally posted by robertteh:If people are bearish about democracy, that is a different story. I don't know whether Singaporeans deserve democracy for they are apathetic just looking at their posting.
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It is well proven in this forum is that they are too many beneficiaries or grass root members here intent on intervening in people's free discussions in forums overzealously uttering invectives and veiled threats against them including asking them to take the next plane or migrating to other countries or banishments just because of intolerance of other views and suggestions to improve the whole government.Originally posted by sgdiehard:After all these are solved, issues rectified, may be singapore will ask: "why should you be taken as citizen?" what are you contributing?"
If you take away 30% humidity from the air, bring the average temperature down to 25 degree C, maintain average rain fall to ensure water supplies..,we would be in heaven
Is this the state of governance called good humidity, temperance, nationalism, meritocracy and asian values or community bonding? -
Complacent or protective because of connections.Originally posted by paperchicken:contended not apathetic. 
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Not true lah as Indonesians have just celebrated democracy and do care to have democratically elected leaders.Originally posted by the Bear:what's "bearish about democracy "?
about apathy, even at work, i face things like this... because the big boss tells them to do it, they don't even question... they just do it.. and become very defensive when they know it's terrible and unethical..
they turn around to those who question and say "the boss told me to do it "...
"the gabrament say one... "
or they just don't care...
is that apathy? coz they don't post anything and are not active in the internet... these are ordinary people... and sadly, the majority who do not even attempt to voice out anything, but will just shrug their shoulders and do what they are told...
trying to get them to do something to save themselves is almost next to impossible.. what more to ask them stick out their necks for their neighbours?
give them democracy?
democracy is earned.. -
we ain't talkin' about indonesians here, are we?
Originally posted by robertteh:Not true lah as Indonesians have just celebrated democracy and do care to have democratically elected leaders. -
There is an assumption here that supporting singapore equals supporting the government or PAP. The question Why be a Singaporean is a question only for PR or new immigrants. To me, there is no preconditions that there should be democracy, freedom of discussions......I am a Singaporean, because I was born here and I grow up here. There is nothing worthy or not worthy.Originally posted by robertteh:It is well proven in this forum is that they are too many beneficiaries or grass root members here intent on intervening in people's free discussions in forums overzealously uttering invectives and veiled threats against them including asking them to take the next plane or migrating to other countries or banishments just because of intolerance of other views and suggestions to improve the whole government.
Is this the state of governance called good humidity, temperance, nationalism, meritocracy and asian values or community bonding? -
There is an equal assumption that speaking up or telling the truths are not supporting Singapore or anti-PAP.Originally posted by sgdiehard:There is an assumption here that supporting singapore equals supporting the government or PAP. The question Why be a Singaporean is a question only for PR or new immigrants. To me, there is no preconditions that there should be democracy, freedom of discussions......I am a Singaporean, because I was born here and I grow up here. There is nothing worthy or not worthy.
PM Lee had said in his inauguration speech that he was worried about Singaporans who have no views.
So I ask all who like to shut down differring views here by uttering threats and invectives against others to think again. -
Why be a Singaporean is a question of individual opinion, not a question of truth! Singaporeans who are proud of being singaporean regardless of its political or economic situation are entitled to voice their opinion the same way as those who calculate every cent before they support the country, in other word, singaporeans who don't give a shit about politics but are also entitled to speak, and not everybody's view has to be politically motivated!!Originally posted by robertteh:There is an equal assumption that speaking up or telling the truths are not supporting Singapore or anti-PAP.
PM Lee had said in his inauguration speech that he was worried about Singaporans who have no views.
So I ask all who like to shut down differring views here by uttering threats and invectives against others to think again.
I believe everybody who live in this country are beneficiaries of what the country has to offer, whether grass root members or not.
Agree there are some singaporeans here asking those who do not feel belong to leave. I may or may not agree with such expression of nationalism, but I do not therefore labelled them grass root members (of PAP? correct me if I am wrong).
I won't be worried about invectives or veiled threats from anybody if I can support my opinion. -
this is a good question... up till now... i'm still searching for the answer...
once again, PM Goh's question rings incessantly in my head " are you a stayer or a quitter?" without any hesitation and cause to be ashamed of myself... i wld reply "i'm a quitter!"
i believe that many singaporeans would share the same sentiments too... -
Those who are prepared to give differnt views from those of government whether these view are opinions or facts are helping to provide alternative views or solutions needed to improve Singapore's governance.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Why be a Singaporean is a question of individual opinion, not a question of truth! Singaporeans who are proud of being singaporean regardless of its political or economic situation are entitled to voice their opinion the same way as those who calculate every cent before they support the country, in other word, singaporeans who don't give a shit about politics but are also entitled to speak, and not everybody's view has to be politically motivated!!
I believe everybody who live in this country are beneficiaries of what the country has to offer, whether grass root members or not.
Agree there are some singaporeans here asking those who do not feel belong to leave. I may or may not agree with such expression of nationalism, but I do not therefore labelled them grass root members (of PAP? correct me if I am wrong).
I won't be worried about invectives or veiled threats from anybody if I can support my opinion.
The last two recessions and Asian Financial Crisis have witnessed how numbed our talents or scholars were - helpless and without solutions.
The best brains in charge were simply unable to solve or contain problems as problems solving cannot be done by a few leaders alone and solutions are too many and diverse.
Therefore, it will be unrealistic to keep harping on the same old policies or views as given by the government or the press that everything is fine and economy is going up. The world is de-massifying due to advancing technologies and rising competitions among nations.
Mainstream views have resulted in complacency although they have helped previously. Critics are able to generate some push to correct definitive views on so many issues - mediacorps and mediaworks were formed with so much fanfare under one policy and now they are saying that that policy was wrong after all.
So nothing is that infallible as painted. Please think again who are nationalistic, or loyal to Singapore and who can help solve problems - grass roots or non-grass roots ?
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Politics is damn dirty. Mix in anything with politics and nothing seems right. So if you are asking me to mix my individual feelings with politics, of course it seems wrong. Right now it is the matters of the heart, not the mind. I was born here, i was raised here and as long as i managed to adapt to life here, i am happy. That is the most important thing in life. A cup can either be half empty or half full. No need to try to tell those people who view that the glass is half full as half empty. Not only you create a hell lot of unhappy people, you also lost your credibility.
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I would rather say to GCT, I am a "foreign talent" and an "opportunist", not a quitter , to his face if he asks me that question because I didn't quit Singapore , I merely grabbed an opportunity that came my way. I give Singapore's foreign talent policy some credit for my decision...why compete with foreigners in my homeland when I can compete with locals in another country.Originally posted by devoid05:this is a good question... up till now... i'm still searching for the answer...
once again, PM Goh's question rings incessantly in my head " are you a stayer or a quitter?" without any hesitation and cause to be ashamed of myself... i wld reply "i'm a quitter!"
i believe that many singaporeans would share the same sentiments too...
My passport is still Singaporean and I still like the insignia on my Singaporean passport.....I still love everything Singaporean. However, Singapore can't give me the future I desire , so I have no choice but to look elsewhere. -
I don't think they said the policy is wrong. I believe the statement made is that the policy is right but the companies are losing $$, so they ALLOW the merger. But, of course, conspiracy thoeries would say they made them merge.Originally posted by robertteh:Mainstream views have resulted in complacency although they have helped previously. Critics are able to generate some push to correct definitive views on so many issues - mediacorps and mediaworks were formed with so much fanfare under one policy and now they are saying that that policy was wrong after all. -
x 2.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:Politics is damn dirty. Mix in anything with politics and nothing seems right. So if you are asking me to mix my individual feelings with politics, of course it seems wrong. Right now it is the matters of the heart, not the mind. I was born here, i was raised here and as long as i managed to adapt to life here, i am happy. That is the most important thing in life. A cup can either be half empty or half full. No need to try to tell those people who view that the glass is half full as half empty. Not only you create a hell lot of unhappy people, you also lost your credibility. -
Patriotism needs no reason. We love our country because we are born and grow up here.
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Anybody can say anything they like, but it is the majority who decide if whatever they said can improve singapore or not, such is democracy. But usually those who are confused between opinions and facts are not likely to be accepted.Originally posted by robertteh:Those who are prepared to give differnt views from those of government whether these view are opinions or facts are helping to provide alternative views or solutions needed to improve Singapore's governance. The last two recessions and Asian Financial Crisis have witnessed how numbed our talents or scholars were - helpless and without solutions.
There is no "best" brain! There are no brains than are better than other brains all the time. Some brains are better than other brains sometimes. There is no solution to recessions or crisis! sigh, we still need more talents in economics than politics.
The best brains in charge were simply unable to solve or contain problems as problems solving cannot be done by a few leaders alone and solutions are too many and diverse.
Therefore, it will be unrealistic to keep harping on the same old policies or views as given by the government or the press that everything is fine and economy is going up. The world is de-massifying due to advancing technologies and rising competitions among nations.
What talking you? what has this got to do with being Singaporean?Mainstream views have resulted in complacency although they have helped previously. Critics are able to generate some push to correct definitive views on so many issues - mediacorps and mediaworks were formed with so much fanfare under one policy and now they are saying that that policy was wrong after all.
Those who have achieved can be complacent. Those who have not achieved cannot be complacent. Work hard - Satisfaction - Complacency - Setback - Work Hard -.... is natural cycle, do we have to push so hard all the times??So nothing is that infallible as painted. Please think again who are nationalistic, or loyal to Singapore and who can help solve problems - grass roots or non-grass roots ?
It is not grass root or non-grass roots, and nothing is infallible. The question is, put it in another way, will you stay and fight for singapore if there is no democracy is singapore?? -
To: sgdiehard,
Just concentrate on the points raised by you and my direct replies in substance. If you go off at a tangent to ask who has the better facts and opinions or whether everything depends on the majority, there is nothing we can discuss that will make sense.
It will be like rojak!!! -
I pulled out of your discussions on definition of true democracy and I have no intention to get back in that kind of discussion again. I am just an ordinary singaporean, mainstream or sidestream i don't know. Call me pro control if you like cause I like to control others, but don't try to control me. i am proud to be a singaporean because of who we are and what we are. I bei song only ni bei will scream, whether you are PAP or not. I don't know the difference between liberal democracy, western democracy, pseudo democracy or communitarian democracy. I know my grandfather ran away from china because of communism so i won't like communism. I know the government who provide shelters and food are good government. Freedom to choose mean you must have a real choice. There are great democracy in america but what are the choices? Bush or KerryOriginally posted by robertteh:To: sgdiehard,
Just concentrate on the points raised by you and my direct replies in substance. If you go off at a tangent to ask who has the better facts and opinions or whether everything depends on the majority, there is nothing we can discuss that will make sense.
It will be like rojak!!! same as in indonesia, Megawati and Bambang what is the diff?
Back to the question, pls! Will you still love singapore if there is no democracy tomorrow? Are you proud to be a singaporean, under the present system, pseudo democracy? socialist democracy? half western democracy? westminster democracy? american constitutional democracy? commu....democracy.....wah lou, not again
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I like rojak also.Originally posted by robertteh:To: sgdiehard,
Just concentrate on the points raised by you and my direct replies in substance. If you go off at a tangent to ask who has the better facts and opinions or whether everything depends on the majority, there is nothing we can discuss that will make sense.
It will be like rojak!!! -
Let's enjoy rojak together too - not nin beh kuai gian.Originally posted by papertiger:I like rojak also. -
To Robertteh,Originally posted by robertteh:Let's enjoy rojak together too - not nin beh kuai gian.
Answer the question, Robert, "Will you still love singapore if there is no democracy tomorrow? Are you proud to be a singaporean?"
or are you holding singaporean passport for convenience but will flee as soon as there are problem here? or are you a foreigner who are here preaching your democracy? (who pay you?) or are you a foreigner here giving political lesson? (i won't pay you!) -
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
You are off the topic again. Anyway, the people who claimed to be loyal to Singapore may not be that loyal, that is what I know. There may have a personal interest being connected to grass root organization or whatever. As long as they post their opinions objectively without trying to pressurize others into sharing the pro-establishment opinions, I think their posts are worthwhile replying to.
To Robertteh,
Answer the question, Robert, [b]"Will you still love singapore if there is no democracy tomorrow? Are you proud to be a singaporean?"
or are you holding singaporean passport for convenience but will flee as soon as there are problem here? or are you a foreigner who are here preaching your democracy? (who pay you?) or are you a foreigner here giving political lesson? (i won't pay you!) [/b]
If not, then, there is no point to respond to them as after all, their posts are merely to say good things about current policies or systems.
How to invite youths to come forward when we have so many such posts trying to intervene on objective and independent views and opinions.
The same people who post all the anti-democracy views and opinions are the ones to answer the question: what do what to see of Singapore? More conformity to controls and past policies or have some useful changes and change of mindsets to take Singapore higher. -
are you a singaporean??Originally posted by robertteh:You are off the topic again. Anyway, the people who claimed to be loyal to Singapore may not be that loyal, that is what I know. There may have a personal interest being connected to grass root organization or whatever. As long as they post their opinions objectively without trying to pressurize others into sharing the pro-establishment opinions, I think their posts are worthwhile replying to.
If not, then, there is no point to respond to them as after all, their posts are merely to say good things about current policies or systems.
How to invite youths to come forward when we have so many such posts trying to intervene on objective and independent views and opinions.
The same people who post all the anti-democracy views and opinions are the ones to answer the question: what do what to see of Singapore? More conformity to controls and past policies or have some useful changes and change of mindsets to take Singapore higher. -
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Let's discuss the topic objectively and rationally. Don't post rojak or invectives or start questioning people's loyalty because their opinions may differ from yours.
[b]are you a singaporean??[/b]
Is this statement fair?
If you agree, I will tell you my nationality.
btw: how about a guessing game about my nationality: am I a foreigner or not foreigner?
Any prize? -
You keep mentioning invectives and veiled threats, where do you see the threats???Originally posted by robertteh:Let's discuss the topic objectively and rationally. Don't post rojak or invectives or start questioning people's loyalty because their opinions may differ from yours.
Is this statement fair?
If you agree, I will tell you my nationality.
btw: how about a guessing game about my nationality: am I a foreigner or not foreigner?
Any prize?
If you are a singaporean, then I will have interest in discussing with you because we have the same stake. I will view your opinions as those from sidestream, or mainstream but it is singaporean voice.
If you are not a singaporean, then you have nothing to do with singapore affair except for theoretical discussion. Put your money where your mouth is Tell me your nationality then I may want to discuss about your country, may be wealth distribution gap? racial discrimination? religious freedom? human right?
Just one more clarification, I am no grass root member, no pro-control or anti demo, no PAP bootlicker. My opinion has no political background, and no political interest. I am simply a singaporean who firmly believe that politicians suck.
BTW you know what is politics? POLY means many, TICK means wingless bloodsucking mites, including many species that transmit diseases and are usually parasitic on humans, cattle, sheep. etc. (check yr dictionary if you want confirmation.) POLITICS simply means many many blood sucking species parasitic on human.