Why be a Singaporean?
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Perhaps the main point that the reader is trying to point out to us, and the question that should be asked is:
Why be a Singaporean Citizen if the liability outweighs the good?
Looking at the posts by our fellow forumites, i feel a bit ashamed not to have felt only half of what's going on, but more towards sadness. Sadness that as a citizen, we do not have any comparable benefits to PRs.
But looking at other countries like China, i'm sure they also welcome foreign talent, and generally PRC citizens are held in lower regard to their foreign counterparts.
But if NS is all i have to give, to be able to live in a state of stability and peace, i would not mind.
We complain about the rising and already very high COE prices, HDB prices, and i compare them to the other countries.
There's no point. Of course with 1 million i can get a much better house in China, but in America things would be much different.
So while i agree with the author that Singaporean Citizens do not have more rights to anything compared to PRs, i guess what everyone should know and do, especially people like JusticeLegal, is to give us Singaporean men some time. We lose 2 years in NS, give us that much time at least, to catch up.
Or of course, we could abolish the entire system, but that's out of the point. -
2 years is a waste of precious time. and puts every single of our guys at least 2 damm years behind the rest of world economy. instead how about 1 year of intensive commando crash course. give even earlier release to good performers to boost morale for those actually interested in moving on
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You may get upset by this. But have you considered that if you are really in the lower rung as you said, then you may not even be able to get PR status in Singapore.Originally posted by Xenthar:I do not want to be a Singaporean but I would rather be a PR. Being a PR is better, not so much liability. Anyway what has Singapore ever done for people on the lower rung like us. Nothing. Maybe got something. NS liability.
Only know how to tell us to "upgrade" and "accept" our lives. Even PM Abdullah from Malaysian know how to tell the farmers it is disgraceful to be contended with what you have and stay as a "HAPPY POOR" man.
If I get rich I will also leave this country for good. It has never done anything for me nor given me any chances at all. I'm sure that a lot of other young people on the lower rung has also realise we deserve a better fighting chance than this.
To put state before people is rubbish from my point of view. It only means the lower "value" people are expendable. When people are HAPPY and GET WHAT THEY WANT most of them will find a way to give or contribute back to the society. Not the other way round.
Singapore is a good country but it is not a good home! And a home is the place where my heart will be!
Anyway, if you compare lower rung of Singapore Versus lower rung of other countries, you are still better off, at least in comparison to USA, Taiwan, PRC, India, Malaysia etc etc. -
Hello! I said I do not even want to be a citizen. As for PR. Ha. Got money can buy liao!! Go read the papers!Originally posted by Qitai:You may get upset by this. But have you considered that if you are really in the lower rung as you said, then you may not even be able to get PR status in Singapore.
Anyway, if you compare lower rung of Singapore Versus lower rung of other countries, you are still better off, at least in comparison to USA, Taiwan, PRC, India, Malaysia etc etc. -
I don't think two years is enough at all. If you just out of the army you will know what I mean.Most guys after ORD 1st year is usually directionless. Those who have parents to pay for full time U courses are the exception.
After ORD, the sensible thing is to find a job. But given the current economy unless you got a degree GOD knows only when you get to land your 1st perm job. I never consider a temp job as a proper job. After that must work to scrap money to study. And by the time we get our degree eventually how old will we be. Mostly around 30 or more. That will only be when our career truly takes off! 2 years! I think 5 years maybe more like itOriginally posted by _Aaron_:
Perhaps the main point that the reader is trying to point out to us, and the question that should be asked is:
Why be a Singaporean [b]Citizen if the liability outweighs the good?
Looking at the posts by our fellow forumites, i feel a bit ashamed not to have felt only half of what's going on, but more towards sadness. Sadness that as a citizen, we do not have any comparable benefits to PRs.
But looking at other countries like China, i'm sure they also welcome foreign talent, and generally PRC citizens are held in lower regard to their foreign counterparts.
But if NS is all i have to give, to be able to live in a state of stability and peace, i would not mind.
We complain about the rising and already very high COE prices, HDB prices, and i compare them to the other countries.
There's no point. Of course with 1 million i can get a much better house in China, but in America things would be much different.
So while i agree with the author that Singaporean Citizens do not have more rights to anything compared to PRs, i guess what everyone should know and do, especially people like JusticeLegal, is to give us Singaporean men some time. We lose 2 years in NS, give us that much time at least, to catch up.
Or of course, we could abolish the entire system, but that's out of the point.[/b] -
But this is where you contradict yourself. You said you are in the lower rung. And now you are saying have money can liao. How can you be at the lower rung and yet have 20 Million dollars at the same time?Originally posted by Xenthar:Hello! I said I do not even want to be a citizen. As for PR. Ha. Got money can buy liao!! Go read the papers! -
Unlike most people here, I do not have the slave mentality lor. Poor people can work hard to find a way to get rich one ma. You think rich people GOD drop money out of the sky for them is it?!?Originally posted by Qitai:But this is where you contradict yourself. You said you are in the lower rung. And now you are saying have money can liao. How can you be at the lower rung and yet have 20 Million dollars at the same time?
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I'll not die for a system that has made eunuchs out of her local-born citizens.Don't get me wrong, i'm pro-globalisation, but somehwere down the line, we must have affirmative action or else equality and attempted social equilibrium will go down the drain and incur greater future cost to our society.Our guys serve two years, supposedly to protect the nation and instil a sense of belonging in them, but when they step out and enter college or the workplace, they already find themselves lagging behind due to a lack of constant usage of the mind(believe me lah).Such morosity gets to them and they find it hard to be employed when a so-called FT comes in and snatches a job which there are countless locals which are eligible , qualified and bloody hell served their time for.By all means, give the FT the job if we cannot find a suitably qualified candidate, not let the lowest common denominator in.
IMHO, being engaged with the world at large means you choose from the best that they can offer and realise that our locals who possess skills not found elsewhere, will capitalise on that leverage and find their place under the sun.Wholesale import of foreigners who are essentially redundant skills-wise is a weak policy and a stupid one.Firms who face a labour cost problem should lobby the government to reduce infrastructure cost, which is pretty much inflated in my eyes.We should never cut back on the focus on the human, for they will enusre the route of our society.This is a very sad and hopeless place if this present trend continues. -
I agree that the government has a sucker for Foreign Talents.
Top management positions filled by FTs....wooed by the Government themselves. They shld look around them to see that Singaporeans do have what it takes to take up these jobs.
Even our national sportsmen.........mostly are foreign imports......rejects from other countries....
Not implyin that i can play table tennis better than jing jun hong....but the government shld pump MORE money into the local sports scene.
The sports school is a gd start but the fees are too high.
We do have talent there in Singapore...Local Talents....if the goverment wishes to look in its own back yard...instead of lookin abroad.
On the point on NS, while im not exactly pleased abt enterin the job market 2.5 yrs later than my female counterparts or PRs...
But i do not tink NS is a liability.
What Ns has given me....the good memories, the maurity, the positive mentality....tis is what the PRs dun get.
I wld not die for Singapore, but i wld have no regrets dieing for my fellow soldiers fighting along side me. -
actualli i quite agree with miong. The English has a good system of making sure that their citizens are taken care not some PRs. US also takes care of their citizens. S'pore? We must be happy that PAP don't milk us dry of our money. -
totally agreed. not for some people that are milking our money but for the brothers/sisters fighting with me although i do not serve NSOriginally posted by Evangelion84:I agree that the government has a sucker for Foreign Talents.
Top management positions filled by FTs....wooed by the Government themselves. They shld look around them to see that Singaporeans do have what it takes to take up these jobs.
they had made a blunder when they hired jack west to teach? who is the other guy in neurology that the PAP sacked coz of some medical impreachment? all blunders!
Even our national sportsmen.........mostly are foreign imports......rejects from other countries....
Not implyin that i can play table tennis better than jing jun hong....but the government shld pump MORE money into the local sports scene.
The sports school is a gd start but the fees are too high.
these r not talents leh. they r rejects from their own countries, 2nd or even 3th team in their countries and what results have they achieved? no medals?!?! y no medal?! coz their families still in their native countries, if they win against their ex-country men/women, their families will b "arrowed" by the government there. Now u know they always cannot win?!
We do have talent there in Singapore...Local Talents....if the goverment wishes to look in its own back yard...instead of lookin abroad.
we have alot of local talents but they r either hidding in australia due to court cases started by PAP or the BIG GUY watching us
On the point on NS, while im not exactly pleased abt enterin the job market 2.5 yrs later than my female counterparts or PRs...
But i do not tink NS is a liability.
What Ns has given me....the good memories, the maurity, the positive mentality....tis is what the PRs dun get.
I wld not die for Singapore, but i wld have no regrets dieing for my fellow soldiers fighting along side me. -
Originally posted by the Bear:put your money where your mouth is and stand for elections... should be coming up soon...
make your points heard... to the nation!
well...if u r willing to part with the deposit for the election, i m willing to stand for election. too expensive.
but from your post, it would seem that you do not offer anything more from the stuff JBJ has offered... which is basically hatred of the system and nothing much more...
he offered too much and was made bankrupt. understand?
high cost of living? sheesh... do tell.. meself, i'm kinda thankful that i do not have to part with $50 everyday for a standard lunch... but there are other things... that can be done.. but at what cost?
i'm thankful for what i have.. see the bottom of this post... and where i come from...
it does not mean that we do not keep trying to improve.. but it tells us not to become bitter when we do not have.. rather, to try to obtain it through hard work...
and most of all, be happy
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I agree with Evangelion84, I would die for the man beside me, fighting with me in the street for I know he will do the same for me and I would fight to save him and his family.We will fight to save the things we hold dear to our hearts, but sadly, it is an uphill task to convince us that the establishment is worth saving, unless a saving grace can be whittled up in a jiffy.Originally posted by Grace74: actualli i quite agree with miong. The English has a good system of making sure that their citizens are taken care not some PRs. US also takes care of their citizens. S'pore? We must be happy that PAP don't milk us dry of our money. -
You don't serve NS, you don't want to lose your election deposit (obviously you have no confidence of any support), you are not prepared to offer what JBJ offered (assuming you have something to offer), you sure your brothers/sisters want to fight with you??Originally posted by Grace74:totally agreed. not for some people that are milking our money but for the brothers/sisters fighting with me although i do not serve NS 
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i have confidence of garnering supports but as an individual candidate, do you know how many percent i must get to get my deposit back? beside watever words tat i used in the rally will be RECORDED n used against me even though the words ARE the REAL voices of the people. so who dares to run for election?Originally posted by sgdiehard:You don't serve NS, you don't want to lose your election deposit (obviously you have no confidence of any support), you are not prepared to offer what JBJ offered (assuming you have something to offer), you sure your brothers/sisters want to fight with you??
i m prepared to offer my service to the PEOPLE but i don't wan to end up selling "HAMMER" coz i was made a bankrupt even though i m relating the REAL voices of the people to the authority.
my brothers/sisters will have to fight with me coz no country no home. tat is the BIG idea but let's look at the small picture. If s'pore falls, the ELITE can easily flee to other countries taking our CPF and national reserves with them n say tat WE ARE FIGHTING from overseas to regain s'pore. wat abt us in s'pore? we have to fight coz our CPF r with the ELITES parking in some other countries. if no fight, we die with no money coz the ELITES can say tat the CPF belongs to SINGAPOREAN but s'pore has fallen, so there is no more SINGAPOREAN. if fight, we still die but our children MIGHT get the money if we can regain s'pore.
there is no win-win situation but there is no much lose = at least i never lose much. -
Life sucks in Singapore. I wanna go Norway!
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I think it's not fair for the govt to use taxpayers' money to subsidize the education of the PR and FT.
I also don't blame our NS guys to feel pissed off for despite having served NS they don't have any edge over the PR and FT in getting jobs. -
I totally agree with you,but the irony is,almost every1 in singapore was an immigrant.Originally posted by pearlie27:I think it's not fair for the govt to use taxpayers' money to subsidize the education of the PR and FT.
I also don't blame our NS guys to feel pissed off for despite having served NS they don't have any edge over the PR and FT in getting jobs. -
Not if you're born here.Originally posted by ahpeh:I totally agree with you,but the irony is,almost every1 in singapore was an immigrant. -
sorry for that,but what i meant was that singapore was orignally an "immigrant state" where most of the population were immigrants
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And here i was.. thinking i should come back to singapore.
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Wait till you guys become an entrepreneur and when your business needs you more urgently during reservist, try to defer or ask for day deferment (to be made up later) during your incamp. Believe me, your officers will f**k you upside down.
That's the reality of the military system and servants serving the government than local businesses.
So why be a Singaporean? You're better off being a non-Singaporean and you won't get f**ked by NS.
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Right on target, the govt sure knows this --- that's why NSF pay increased and they need to serve only 2 years now. But seriously, i think that sooner or later the NS will have to be reduced in importance.Originally posted by macjoe:Wait till you guys become an entrepreneur and when your business needs you more urgently during reservist, try to defer or ask for day deferment (to be made up later) during your incamp. Believe me, your officers will f**k you upside down.
That's the reality of the military system and servants serving the government than local businesses.
So why be a Singaporean? You're better off being a non-Singaporean and you won't get f**ked by NS.
Afterall, we have 1/4 of the population freeloading on the defense provided by our males and govt is still welcoming them. Maybe only in the civil service are males paid higher due to their NS stint, everywhere else they come into society later and are paid same wages. Somethimes they even suffer discrimmination in their workplace due to their reservist commitments. -
Same here.... but i think the problem is tat i did not c the govt beside me leh...Originally posted by LazerLordz:I agree with Evangelion84, I would die for the man beside me, fighting with me in the street for I know he will do the same for me and I would fight to save him and his family.We will fight to save the things we hold dear to our hearts, but sadly, it is an uphill task to convince us that the establishment is worth saving, unless a saving grace can be whittled up in a jiffy. -
So,, you do not agree to high cost living???? Wait till you run a family with two or three kids then you will know if your take home pay.. at say......s$1700 to 2000.Originally posted by the Bear:put your money where your mouth is and stand for elections... should be coming up soon...
make your points heard... to the nation!
but from your post, it would seem that you do not offer anything more from the stuff JBJ has offered... which is basically hatred of the system and nothing much more...
high cost of living? sheesh... do tell.. meself, i'm kinda thankful that i do not have to part with $50 everyday for a standard lunch... but there are other things... that can be done.. but at what cost?
i'm thankful for what i have.. see the bottom of this post... and where i come from...
it does not mean that we do not keep trying to improve.. but it tells us not to become bitter when we do not have.. rather, to try to obtain it through hard work...
and most of all, be happy
Utilities bills, TV lience, housing instalment, property tax, insurance, telephone bills, conservancy charges, water, gas & electrical bills, household expenses, personal daily espenses, medical fees, educational fees, Children espenses, garment, School transportation fees, home maintenance and etc. You will go crazy,,,man!!! even you will have to pay for salt to do cooking.
Now, the agonize of these group are the blue collars and above age 40. majority are under paid; the age 40 and above got even much difficulties in securing a job.
My friend applied job as clerk-of-work with capitaland last year at age 40 and was turn down. So...how.. get a job at gross pay S$1500??? How to support the above family even with his wife working at gross pay S$800 per mth??? WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
In japan, do you know how much is their wages??? if you don't know then you should not qualify yourself here.
High Living cost in Japan, agreed... yes they are also much higher living standard compare to singapore. My friend working in Japan drawing a salary of average S$500 to 600 dollars a day just a blue collar !!! So... how do you compare?????