GE just around the corner, time to take a stand if you dare
-
A story of a man by the name of Toh Chin Chye was involved in an accident a few years ago and the story was printed in the New Paper. The paper has assumed that the person was the retired minister and later had to apologised.Originally posted by iveco:i am sure that some men in white may not be as clean as they seem to be, but what they do is hidden away from the media. Even if some of them have an illegitimate child or something, the media would never dare to report on it.
What happened to Steve Chia was unfortunate as one by one, the skeletons in his cupboard were dug out just because of his wife's foolish actions which could jeopardise his chances at the next election.
I pull no punches when i say our media hypes up the achievements of the ruling party and takes part in character assasination of oppositioon MPs who make mistakes. After all, we are only human and prone to errors. It does not matter whether we are in the ruling party or otherwise.
The case a former PAP mp who broke the law went on trial and was sentenced was reported in the papers.
If the reporter have news about the wrong doing of any senior official or person in the government I believe they will report it. -
But the Choo Wee Khiang case was rather low-key even though it involved criminal proceedings against him, his brother-in-law and a female friend.Originally posted by The Barracuda:A story of a man by the name of Toh Chin Chye was involved in an accident a few years ago and the story was printed in the New Paper. The paper has assumed that the person was the retired minister and later had to apologised.
The case a former PAP mp who broke the law went on trial and was sentenced was reported in the papers.
If the reporter have news about the wrong doing of any senior official or person in the government I believe they will report it.
The marital troubles and secret fetishes off Steve Chia made bigger headlines than the above case even though the NSP man broke no laws. -
I think its because the Steve Chia's story is more sensational and more readers will want to read about it and hence the media attention given to it.Originally posted by iveco:But the Choo Wee Khiang case was rather low-key even though it involved criminal proceedings against him, his brother-in-law and a female friend.
The marital troubles and secret fetishes off Steve Chia made bigger headlines than the above case even though the NSP man broke no laws.
If a PAP politician is caught in a similar situation like Chia I think there will be bigger headlines and greater coverage. -
The problem here is will we ever have that day in the first place. I can bet any amount of $$ that it won't happen in Singapore as long as the men in white rule the day.Originally posted by The Barracuda:I think its because the Steve Chia's story is more sensational and more readers will want to read about it and hence the media attention given to it.
If a PAP politician is caught in a similar situation like Chia I think there will be bigger headlines and greater coverage.
-
sooner or later ........Originally posted by iveco:The problem here is will we ever have that day in the first place. I can bet any amount of $$ that it won't happen in Singapore as long as the men in white rule the day. -
Start a new forum here and talk lah.Originally posted by Chia Ti Lik:The Opposition parties are on the ground with no national media and press to highlight everything that they do and blow their trumpet, its no wonder that most Singaporeans don't see. When you read the papers and listen to the news some times you have to understand that the press and the media will not be reporting to the opposition's favour. Commonsense will tell you this is true.
You hear of Town Councils raising charges to cap costs and the justification for such, do you know that only PAP Town Councils are raising charges and both opposition wards SPP's Potong Pasir and WP's Hougang have not? Not reported in the news.
The MP being tasked to run Town Councils was a move invented by the PAP (when they lost four seats in 1991) and it was intended to burden opposition MPs into the day to day exigencies of HDB town living and detract them from the role of checking the Govt in parliament.
Now this has backfired. Speaks volume of the quality of PAP MPs as well as the quality of Opposition MPs huh?
Its very easy. Go to personal click on Forums Manager. You can create one within five minutes. as easy as ABC. -
so why cant the opposition do some research on that ?Originally posted by Chia Ti Lik:As much as i would love to touch on that topic and win your favour. An answer to a sensitive question like this cannot come about without proper research and justification. Notwithstanding that, a seemingly well though out answer will almost always be shot down by a request for facts and statistics a.k.a. PAP style.
Any answer i give, will both find favour or rancour with different members of the forum. You cannot please everybody. People like us cannot be making sweeping statements that this is good or this is bad off the cuff. People get unhappy with my stand and they start shooting. i start shooting and everybody gets unhappy. It's too easy to fall into the usual forum discussion trap and with the greater picture in mind i have this to say:
As politicians in a minority faction in parliament (a.k.a the opposition), our roles (if elected) will be limited to exercising the primary function of parliament i.e. holding the executive accountable AND speaking for the people. AND from this basic first principle is where my answer comes:
And if (if God permits) my constituents tell me they strenously object to foreign talent, it is my duty to highlight their concerns and their arguments to the Govt ask the Govt to justify their unpopular policies and explain them to the people. -
ha ha. i stand corrected. apologies.[/quote]Originally posted by The Barracuda:This was reported in the Straits Times. -
Oh yes we have ... and yes the government is secular... but i am not.Originally posted by The Barracuda:We have a secular government. -
Ah .... treading very dangerously here...Originally posted by paperchicken:so why cant the opposition do some research on that ?
A question initially directed at me midway mutates into a question directed at THE OPPOSITION ... tsk ... tsk.... tsk.
Firstly, the question was directed at me so i am speaking for myself.
To do such research with my limited time and resources is not a priority at the moment. Other individuals interested enough in this topic are free to do so.
The person who does so earns the credit. Anyway, for all you know, some diligent opposition member might be researching into this topic already. i have ruled myself out of the running for the time being.
As for me, i am concentrating on other aspects, borrowing a quote from our SG Mr. Low Thia Khiang "Well, i do what i can".
i can't speak for the rest of the opposition, just like you won't be able to speak for everyone else.
Mere research will not going to change the PAP and this country. If it does, we wont need politicians. Our esteemed professors and research assistants in NUS NTU SMU SIM can by their work influence the running of the country.
In any event, having a point well researched does not guarantee a stand that will win everybody's approval.
Having said that let all be reminded of who is the incumbent and on whom the duty lies in the justification of national policies. -
Whats so dangerous ? I am not asking you to send spy into mindef to do stock take of the weapons.Originally posted by Chia Ti Lik:Ah .... treading very dangerously here...
A question initially directed at me midway mutates into a question directed at THE OPPOSITION ... tsk ... tsk.... tsk.
Firstly, the question was directed at me so i am speaking for myself.
To do such research with my limited time and resources is not a priority at the moment. Other individuals interested enough in this topic are free to do so.
The person who does so earns the credit. Anyway, for all you know, some diligent opposition member might be researching into this topic already. i have ruled myself out of the running for the time being.
As for me, i am concentrating on other aspects, borrowing a quote from our SG Mr. Low Thia Khiang "Well, i do what i can".
i can't speak for the rest of the opposition, just like you won't be able to speak for everyone else.
Mere research will not going to change the PAP and this country. If it does, we wont need politicians. Our esteemed professors and research assistants in NUS NTU SMU SIM can by their work influence the running of the country.
In any event, having a point well researched does not guarantee a stand that will win everybody's approval.
Having said that let all be reminded of who is the incumbent and on whom the duty lies in the justification of national policies.
You are from the workers party arent you ?
Work and employment is an issue that concerns Singaporeans. We have the right to know.
If the opposition does not conduct its own research and studies how credible are their words then ?
If the opposition want ppl to support them then they have to put in the effort to collect and come up with some data. -
PaperchickenOriginally posted by paperchicken:Whats so dangerous ? I am not asking you to send spy into mindef to do stock take of the weapons.
You are from the workers party arent you ?
Work and employment is an issue that concerns Singaporeans. We have the right to know.
If the opposition does not conduct its own research and studies how credible are their words then ?
If the opposition want ppl to support them then they have to put in the effort to collect and come up with some data.
Read my answer carefully. What i meant was that at the moment, i can neither give you a foolproof or substantially researched answer on the foreign talent issue. So i am refraining from comment.
You ask me why can't the opposition do it.
My answer is i speak for myself not for the whole opposition.
What i mean is that if your question is "why can't the opposition do it?" it is not for me to answer.
but If your question is "what is my stand or why i cant't do the research?"
I have told you i wont do it at the present moment because its not on the priority list. i am human.
The people's support comes from the understanding of the function of the opposition which is to check the ruling party. The function of an opposition is not to research topics and win arguments against opponents (like what the PAP wants you to believe) - that is a job for lawyers and debaters.
In politics, being able to come up with proper reseach and data does not translate into getting popular support. (though it earns you marks if you are a postgrad or undergrad research student and the targetted audience are your professors) -
How can you check on the ruling party if your arguements are not based on facts. You think the parliament is your neighbourhood coffee shop for you to talk cock sing song ? With members like you among their ranks no wonder the opposition has no support.Originally posted by Chia Ti Lik:The people's support comes from the understanding of the function of the opposition which is to check the ruling party. The function of an opposition is not to research topics and win arguments against opponents (like what the PAP wants you to believe) - that is a job for lawyers and debaters.
In politics, being able to come up with proper reseach and data does not translate into getting popular support. (though it earns you marks if you are a postgrad or undergrad research student and the targetted audience are your professors) -
When is the GE coming?
-
Does anyone feel that PAP sometimes has no balls? You just have to look at the way they carved up Eunos and Cheng San after getting the result they didn't like. The WP was disqualified in Aljunied last election and Aljunied comprises remnants of the old Eunos and Cheng San wards, which makes this whole business all the more fishy.
-
Does anyone feel that PAP sometimes has no balls? You just have to look at the way they carved up Eunos and Cheng San after getting the result they didn't like. The WP was disqualified in Aljunied last election and Aljunied comprises remnants of the old Eunos and Cheng San wards, which makes this whole business all the more fishy
well i think u have just hit the nail on the head. this proves that the govt is cunning, smart and able to adapt to the times. instead of being afraid of it, i'm glad that at least my govt is run by pple who knows how to defeat the opposition.
btw the govt has a purpose as well u know, which is to ensure the survability of their very own party. you tell me got any party ownself zi xiang chuan sha just to give the opposition a place in the govt meh? u think wad, some kind of nursery rhyme where everything is so peaceful and serene izzit?
instead, if the opposition is able to stand up and defeat the people in white up there, than i would recognise it's quality. instead what i see in opposition is the very fact that most of them instead must rely on foreign organisation(amnesty international), which only speaks much about the self-dependency. and on this point, i rather admire JBJ for his guts and balls. -
What about LTK? I feel he has done a good job in turning the WP around. It is considered a serious party, just as the NSP is. Hope they can snatch Aljunied next time if they decide to give it another try.
-
Hi er.... PAP...er..TigerOriginally posted by papertiger:How can you check on the ruling party if your arguements are not based on facts. You think the parliament is your neighbourhood coffee shop for you to talk cock sing song ? With members like you among their ranks no wonder the opposition has no support.
In classic PAP style you have responded,
in classic PAP style will be my reply,
which argument have i made that is not backed up with facts?
In the first place, did i make any arguments as yet?
Read my posts carefully, don't make such baseless assertions. -
Then how is the opposition party going to back up its stand and request for changes if it cannot produce data or evidence.Originally posted by Chia Ti Lik:The people's support comes from the understanding of the function of the opposition which is to check the ruling party. The function of an opposition is not to research topics and win arguments against opponents (like what the PAP wants you to believe) - that is a job for lawyers and debaters.
In politics, being able to come up with proper reseach and data does not translate into getting popular support. (though it earns you marks if you are a postgrad or undergrad research student and the targetted audience are your professors) -
I am not PAP. Is making accusation your style ? I am made those comments based on what you post. Its still there dun try to deny it. Is flip-flopping your classic style ?Originally posted by Chia Ti Lik:Hi er.... PAP...er..Tiger
In classic PAP style you have responded,
in classic PAP style will be my reply,
which argument have i made that is not backed up with facts?
In the first place, did i make any arguments as yet?
Read my posts carefully, don't make such baseless assertions.
-
This is an interesting question.
The PAP govt has all the resources, be it data collection, think tank or otherwise. They do not have it as a party entity but these instituitions (eg. Dept Of Stats, Institute of Policy Studies etc) are fully financed and funded by public money. It would have made PAP looks good that it could provide solid data and argument; but wouldn't it be unrealistically demanding of you to ask Workers' Party or any opposition parties to provide the same level of research data? PAP couldn't possibility do that themselves, at party level but through public funded instituitions!
Once a while, we could have dug some interesting data from the basic data given by DOS. However, such data mining may not be accurate due to technical definition of data.
And I don't think we should over emphasize on data and statistic. Most intellect criticize PAP for taking people as digits and statistics, not human being. It is unhealthy to rule the country by digits and statistics only. Even statistics could be abused or misleading, depending on the way they want to present it.
So I think, one must differentiate between Govt and party before one could qualify to criticize any political party of the lack of research. In this part of the world that I am staying right now, political representatives are financed to employ researchers and administrators to help them in their political work. The govt provided funding for rental and payroll for Legco members to employ researchers. But alas, sometimes, they didn't make good use of these fundings at all.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by paperchicken:Then how is the opposition party going to back up its stand and request for changes if it cannot produce data or evidence. -
The opposition can concentrate their resources on a few issues first. By demostrating that they can come up will better ideas would boost public confidence and funds and vote will follow. If they continue this way Singaporeans will never support them.Originally posted by goh meng seng:This is an interesting question.
The PAP govt has all the resources, be it data collection, think tank or otherwise. They do not have it as a party entity but these instituitions (eg. Dept Of Stats, Institute of Policy Studies etc) are fully financed and funded by public money. It would have made PAP looks good that it could provide solid data and argument; but wouldn't it be unrealistically demanding of you to ask Workers' Party or any opposition parties to provide the same level of research data? PAP couldn't possibility do that themselves, at party level but through public funded instituitions!
Once a while, we could have dug some interesting data from the basic data given by DOS. However, such data mining may not be accurate due to technical definition of data.
And I don't think we should over emphasize on data and statistic. Most intellect criticize PAP for taking people as digits and statistics, not human being. It is unhealthy to rule the country by digits and statistics only. Even statistics could be abused or misleading, depending on the way they want to present it.
So I think, one must differentiate between Govt and party before one could qualify to criticize any political party of the lack of research. In this part of the world that I am staying right now, political representatives are financed to employ researchers and administrators to help them in their political work. The govt provided funding for rental and payroll for Legco members to employ researchers. But alas, sometimes, they didn't make good use of these fundings at all.
Goh Meng Seng -
shhhh you are not supposed to say who you are gonna vote for .....it's actually an offence.....Originally posted by miong:I am definitely voting opposition this time around.
My first vote for opposition!
However let's say the feeling is mutual -
Rest assured. when i make that stand, i will back it up.Originally posted by paperchicken:Then how is the opposition party going to back up its stand and request for changes if it cannot produce data or evidence.
Your concerns are premature. -
What accusation did i make? Oh i see...Originally posted by papertiger:I am not PAP. Is making accusation your style ? I am made those comments based on what you post. Its still there dun try to deny it. Is flip-flopping your classic style ?
i was so frightened by the PAP..er..tiger so i cannot pronounce the name in one full sentence.
i was so scared because this tiger was staring at me straight in the face and kept coming at me and wont let go not only that it had black stripes on his body... scary!
Can't you hear that i am stammering?
Worst of all it was fierce and relentless, PAP-style.
Not to worry, if you are not i won't say you are. Did i say you were?
Now let me tell a story:
Once upon a time there was this not-so-bright man who after burying his stash of 300 taels of silver underground was afraid that someone else would come and try dig it up. and guess what he did?
He put up the sign on the very spot where the silver was buried
"There are no 300 taels of silver in this ground".
Guess what? someone else upon readng the sign, dug up the silver and took all of it.
Now wait a minute... this seems to be getting familiar....
Not to worry, the posts are there and remain there.
It is also said "What is written, cannot be denied"
Let the forumites read and understand, if you don't.