GE just around the corner, time to take a stand if you dare
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And what if the issues we are looking at differ from those that you have picked for discussion?Originally posted by paperchicken:The opposition can concentrate their resources on a few issues first. By demostrating that they can come up will better ideas would boost public confidence and funds and vote will follow. If they continue this way Singaporeans will never support them.
Now you are agreeing with me finally!
We are concentrating our resources, like i first said. i cannot at this point of time devote time into researching and answering the original question because the Singapore public demands (just like the PAP taught them to) that arguments made be backed up by research and statistics.
I already said i cannot devote that time and energy as yet and i got fired for it.
Left also wrong, right also wrong!
but look who finally agrees with me.
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I heard this from some guy in Sintercom...Originally posted by goh meng seng:Dear Nelstar,
It is great to hear someone so bold and ambitious to want to form his own political party! It demonstrates that we still have people with bold visions and ideals in Singapore which most people are apathetic politically.
Forming a political party is not difficult anyway; we already have "one man show" party in Singapore!
But to run the party effectively, making it grow and such, needs lots of commitment, perserverence, mental strength and of course, sarcrifices. Leadership is another considerations, whether you could inspire others to understand and identify themselves with your visions and dreams.
I think the "easier way out" from your situation is to join a party and try to change from within. My lecturer and mentor has ever mentioned to me that it would be better for me to join PAP and try to work my way up and change the party from within. But I find it too bulky and clumsy to evoke changes.
Somehow, it is true that you could trust your life, political life, with Mr. Low TK. That's how I feel when I first met and chat with him. There is no doubt in my mind, after that meeting, that I could trust my political life with him. The rest is history.
And it is easier to make things works and progress in alternative political parties. There is already a basic mechanism and we just work on it, we get satisfactions when we see the effects. It is truly exciting, in some sense.
Hope you got your political party set up soon.
Goh Meng Seng
many people think they can change the party from within, unfortunately the moment they get embroiled with the Inner COmplexities, they encounter a sudden change of heart, and stop desiring to change the party, and actually I think that is rather true. Earlier this year, on i-contact, Raymond Lim was saying how he used to be against the PAP and all that, until he joined it and "received enlightenment". I have no idea what kind he received, but Judging by what he said at i-contact, not just the bland replies to the students' questions but also his comic promotion of YPAP which got most students laughing at him, I don't think it was very beneficial in any way.
the pikamaster -
Dear Pikamaster,
It depends on which party you join.
If it is PAP, then it will be really an uphill task. There is no way one could try to change it as it is deeply entrenched with its root all stretches to the fullest. It is just like using one individual's spade, trying to remove the whole old tree to somewhere else.
It is however, easier to change an opposition parties which are not very much deeply entrenched in any particular practice or ideological encagement. It is slightly more challenging to influence Workers' Party as compared to other alternative parties because we have a relatively stronger, bigger veteran group than other younger alternative parties. But I am not saying it is not possible. The younger generation of WP members did successfully implemented reforms and changes to the party in one way or another.
So for people like Raymond Lim or Vivian, thinking that they could possibly move or change anything within a party like PAP, they must be daring and dreaming but it will never work out that way.
No harm trying though, but when you find it impossible, then better back off and try something else, instead of being "co-opted" into the "mainstream" eventually.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by pikamaster:I heard this from some guy in Sintercom...
many people think they can change the party from within, unfortunately the moment they get embroiled with the Inner COmplexities, they encounter a sudden change of heart, and stop desiring to change the party, and actually I think that is rather true. Earlier this year, on i-contact, Raymond Lim was saying how he used to be against the PAP and all that, until he joined it and "received enlightenment". I have no idea what kind he received, but Judging by what he said at i-contact, not just the bland replies to the students' questions but also his comic promotion of YPAP which got most students laughing at him, I don't think it was very beneficial in any way.
the pikamaster -
How do you determine if he is from 'the opposition'?
What constitutes 'the opposition'?
EmptyCageOriginally posted by the Bear:people like you are the reason why the opposition has no credibility.. -
On contrary, I heard from one of your party sympathizers, it is easier to change WP than other alternative parties because of the receptiveness of the new leadership as compares to the rest with very big ego leadership.
For example Chiam has always been quite autocratic and disapprove SDA ideas for forum and newsletter, somemore has veto powers. WP was harder to change during JBJ time because he was running it as a one-man show.
EmptyCageOriginally posted by goh meng seng:It is however, easier to change an opposition parties which are not very much deeply entrenched in any particular practice or ideological encagement. It is slightly more challenging to influence Workers' Party as compared to other alternative parties because we have a relatively stronger, bigger veteran group than other younger alternative parties. But I am not saying it is not possible. The younger generation of WP members did successfully implemented reforms and changes to the party in one way or another. -
I never agree with you.Originally posted by Chia Ti Lik:And what if the issues we are looking at differ from those that you have picked for discussion?
Now you are agreeing with me finally!
We are concentrating our resources, like i first said. i cannot at this point of time devote time into researching and answering the original question because the Singapore public demands (just like the PAP taught them to) that arguments made be backed up by research and statistics.
I already said i cannot devote that time and energy as yet and i got fired for it.
Left also wrong, right also wrong!
but look who finally agrees with me.
Dun put words into my mouth.
I said opposition shd concentrate there efforts on specific issue instead of just talking about EVERY issue.
MEANING : Pick a specific issue collect feedback on it. Do a lot of research on it, come up with the alternatives and data to back you up and let MR Low bring it up in parliament. -
Paperchicken, read your earlier postings.Originally posted by paperchicken:I never agree with you.
Dun put words into my mouth.
I said opposition shd concentrate there efforts on specific issue instead of just talking about EVERY issue.
MEANING : Pick a specific issue collect feedback on it. Do a lot of research on it, come up with the alternatives and data to back you up and let MR Low bring it up in parliament.
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To Chia TL & Goh MS,
Are you WP cadres? If you are, do you have any idea when the election is coming? If it's anytime before 6/05, I might have to go down to Canberra to cast my vote. -
Hello ivecoOriginally posted by iveco:To Chia TL & Goh MS,
Are you WP cadres? If you are, do you have any idea when the election is coming? If it's anytime before 6/05, I might have to go down to Canberra to cast my vote.
Nice of you to think so highly of us. Yes Goh MS is a cadre but i am not just an ordinary member anyway right from the beginning both of us openly declared that we speak for ourselves and not for the WP.
We are probably two of the newest members within WP. Between Goh MS and myself, i am even more junior. This means i am right at the bottom of the pecking order. Save for the new members coming in which i may not know.
Well the PM has up till early 2007 (thats barely two years three months left) to decide but to wait until then allows more preparations to be done by their opponents.
I do not expect them to give us such luxury .e. from the goodies and about turns they have made in some policies and big promises... i think it should be soon... quite soon.
They would love to convince us otherwise actually.
So nice of you to think of making the effort to vote, by doing so you affirm that your vote counts and by that it means that you will vote wisely. Its those who think that their vote does not count who are doing themselves and their fellow countrymen in.
Whichever way your vote goes. Thank you.
regards.