Anyone knows PM's salary?
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u never read my above post (6th reply)Originally posted by skyfoo:with 16 replies, nobody knows? then what the use of having the policy of transparency?
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heard it's 2x a normal minister..
aniwae, the high salary is to ensure that the minister does his job well , and does not slack in his duty ..
and it is to compensate them for their opportunity cost , as from what i know some of them are president's scholars so they could have earned as much if they were in some firms -
To: Sibeisuaykia,
There are possibly two ways of awarding talents (generalisation) assuming that there are such a thing as talents:-
(1) Recognize that people are different and some have more talents than others. President or an independent panel be advised to appoint specific person of calibre to be ministers or senior civil servants (salaries may be higher than ministers') needed by Singapore based on his past track records and qualifications.
Singapore can have all the talents it wants on a case-by-case basis and there should be no objection from anyone to pay such people higher pays on substantiated ground. By adopting such balanced or objective approach, Singapore can still attract many talents it wants or needs without opening the floodgates to award everyone higher pay based on positions. (Democracy at work) or;
(2) Make general statements or all kinds of policies based on talents or meritocracy, pay everyone equal based on positions, (assuming all are talents) and uplift all salary scales to retain that one or two talent, create promotions and increase pays of all positions across the board.
Singapore might be following the (2) approach for too many years resulting in everyone being presumed to be talents.
At the end, we are over-doing things. In the Asian Financial Crisis and last two recessions, our so-called talents were too helpless to do anything and could not come up with plans to overcome high costs affecting our competitiveness.
All non-talents too are regarded as talents and awarded promotions or higher salaries presumed or premised on such talent or meritocracy policies to retain or attract talents resulting in our high costs.
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50k/mth
Just guessing -
How much NKF ceo pay ? Anyone know ?
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typical Singaporean Arrogance. Think we are the best in the world. probably read too much ST propaganda. besides, even if that claim were true, size would be the advantage that WE have.Originally posted by Goondu74:They maybe running larger countries, but are they running them as well as us?
I do agree there is room for improvement here but the fact that issues like window falling and tampines lamppost falling are being addressed shows that the relevant departments are bothered to work on it. In the so called "bigger countries" they would probably ask u to take a number and get back to u 10 years later, that is if they get back to u at all.
And for those who think that running a country is easier than running an MNC, u should get your heads checked! In any corporation, the basic yardstick the CEO is judged on is $$$. They have carte blanche to make any decisions that will bring in money for the company. They will not care how their decisions would affect the workers nor do they want to care. As long as the company is not in the red, nothing else matters.
The ministers on the other hand are in a no win situation. Any decisions they make are bound to upset somebody, they can NEVER please EVERYONE. The trick is to play the majority. Easier said than done.
Yep, juz like Nicoll Highway...blame here, blame there...why izzit always the citizens who shoulder the blame and responsibility? Really, sometimes this mantra of "personal responsibility" gets out of hand...
I have yet to see an Education Policy that cares for the students by reducing their workload, both physical and mental. As yet, MOE seems to enjoy heaping blame on students for being "soft". ( I'm a school student myself, local in case you are wondering.)
the thoughtful pikamaster -
Its precisely that u are a local student that you dun see why the MOE are labelling u as soft, i used to have the same mentality as you, i made an excuse to leave this place, stayed away for a few years and came back glad to be a singaporean. i never did say we are the best in the world but i wont deny that its not far off.Originally posted by pikamaster:typical Singaporean Arrogance. Think we are the best in the world. probably read too much ST propaganda. besides, even if that claim were true, size would be the advantage that WE have.
Yep, juz like Nicoll Highway...blame here, blame there...why izzit always the citizens who shoulder the blame and responsibility? Really, sometimes this mantra of "personal responsibility" gets out of hand...
I have yet to see an Education Policy that cares for the students by reducing their workload, both physical and mental. As yet, MOE seems to enjoy heaping blame on students for being "soft". ( I'm a school student myself, local in case you are wondering.)
the thoughtful pikamaster -
Wah! Ur CME teacher so daring. He's a Civil Servant and he actually ask this kind of questions? Even my CME teacher who is also daring dare not ask such questions. He pretends to be pro-MOE in our class.LOL Thats what he told us.Originally posted by skyfoo:A few days ago, my CME teacher ask our class who knows how much does Lee Hsien Loong, our PM and Finance Minister, earns? Surprisely, no one knows. He doesn't know too. Then, he asked us anyone knows the reasons why LHL wanted to hold both the posts of PM and Finance Minister. Again, the class was silence. He then pointed out that it's because he does not want us(Singaporeans) to know how much we are earning.
So, does anyone knows our PM's salary. If not, Singapore Government practised transparency, right? So, why the PM's salary is not revealed?
Anyway if you want an estimate, ask mr Chiam See Tong. -
He sure won't know cos he is the opposition lah!
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Give me 5 good reasons then, and your second sentence still shows the same arrogance you displayed in your previous post.Originally posted by Goondu74:Its precisely that u are a local student that you dun see why the MOE are labelling u as soft, i used to have the same mentality as you, i made an excuse to leave this place, stayed away for a few years and came back glad to be a singaporean. i never did say we are the best in the world but i wont deny that its not far off.
The only posssible reason for students here being "soft" I can find is that they are not brave enough to stand up against the Ministry's insults toward them.
Anyway, alot changes in a few years, mainly because you have a different generation. How old r u, btw?
the puzzled pikamaster -
erms... the figure is estimated ard 1 million... there was a much heated debate in sg two years ago arising from an upward adjustment in ministerial wages as one of the highest in the world...Originally posted by skyfoo:A few days ago, my CME teacher ask our class who knows how much does Lee Hsien Loong, our PM and Finance Minister, earns? Surprisely, no one knows. He doesn't know too. Then, he asked us anyone knows the reasons why LHL wanted to hold both the posts of PM and Finance Minister. Again, the class was silence. He then pointed out that it's because he does not want us(Singaporeans) to know how much we are earning.
So, does anyone knows our PM's salary. If not, Singapore Government practised transparency, right? So, why the PM's salary is not revealed?
the question to ponder over is whether these ministers were subjected to salary freezes and pay-cuts when a recent recession hit sg... -
not sure whats the connection but your post reminds me of my jobOriginally posted by pikamaster:Give me 5 good reasons then, and your second sentence still shows the same arrogance you displayed in your previous post.
The only posssible reason for students here being "soft" I can find is that they are not brave enough to stand up against the Ministry's insults toward them.
Anyway, alot changes in a few years, mainly because you have a different generation. How old r u, btw?
the puzzled pikamaster
recently my boss made a lot of decisions that most of us don't agree with , but no senior staff or managers disagreed with him, only people that made open remarks about his ideas are the juniors, and after the whole thing , a consultant with us
said something about asian bosses in particular, that they care about face a lot and even if they always come up with crap ideas , you'll still have to agree and applaud if you want your job -
we singaporeans have stood up for so many issues, ranging from the highly controversial streaming system to the recent heated debate over the amount of play time schools limit their children to... but since when has the government listened? Despite the countless letters from concerned groups of parents calling for the government to abolish the system of streaming over the years, the furthest the government has gone is to band the EM1 and EM2 stream together, which apparently still doesn't remove the demoralizing labels placed on those in the EM3 stream.Originally posted by pikamaster:Give me 5 good reasons then, and your second sentence still shows the same arrogance you displayed in your previous post.
The only posssible reason for students here being "soft" I can find is that they are not brave enough to stand up against the Ministry's insults toward them.
Anyway, alot changes in a few years, mainly because you have a different generation. How old r u, btw?
the puzzled pikamaster
we are not brave enough to stand up to the minister's insults towards us? read the newspapers again and i'm sure you will find fresh critics abt the education system written by our very own "softies".
many ministers have sent their children overseas... if our so called wholistic education system would suffice... why the need to sent their children overseas? -
Please do not mistake pride for arrogance. I am not trying to put down anybody here but dun u think that most of the issues put up are higher issues compared to what some ppl in other countries might never even encounter? E.g. we are all talking about how taxing and heavy our workload are on our students but dun u know that many dun even have the rights to education elsewhere? i am not talking abt some poor old 3rd world country here. Ask your friends from up north, many fail to make it to uni just because of the colour of their skin. Its easy to take for granted the many comforts that we enjoy. We complain abt how costly it is to drive but have u ever been caught in 24-hour jams? or that u were waiting in a bus stop for a bus only to find out that the bus companies are all on a 3-day strike? Do u feel as safe when walking down a street here than elsewhere? Someone lament that our ministers are sending their children abroad, it could just be because that they feel their children are getting too comfortable here? They need them to see that there is still a world out there. I do agree with u that we can still improve in many areas but sometimes the govt have to do what they have to do in order for us to survive. Like i said before i had to go away to realise how fortunate we are. Funnily what i couldnt agree more with u is the fact that u said that we are to weak to stand up to the MOE. A good pakistani friend ever told me that he finds the guys here are like having their balls cut off when they are young albiet tongue in cheek. I am 30, how abt u?Originally posted by pikamaster:Give me 5 good reasons then, and your second sentence still shows the same arrogance you displayed in your previous post.
The only posssible reason for students here being "soft" I can find is that they are not brave enough to stand up against the Ministry's insults toward them.
Anyway, alot changes in a few years, mainly because you have a different generation. How old r u, btw?
the puzzled pikamaster -
simply said, you can't expect the PM's salary to be that of a hawker. being someone who is leading our country, i would generally expect him to be commanding a higher salary than most of us. in anycase, you can't expect LHL to go on TV everymonth and highlight his montly wages can you? it's dumb. salary is meant to be for personal information only. and even though he's in the govt, i'm sure he is limited to his very own personal information.
and btw, i'm sure giving me articles that begins with "http://www.sdp.org" is very much appreciated. i would be damn if any article in it even highlights the pros of the govt. as such, i would deem most articles as this defamatory to the govt, and have a serious reliability question. -
then wouldn't you consider biased media reports and government statements about opposition to be defamatory tot eh opposition, and have a serious reliablility question as well? If you don't, then you are not being objective at all.Originally posted by runningismylife:simply said, you can't expect the PM's salary to be that of a hawker. being someone who is leading our country, i would generally expect him to be commanding a higher salary than most of us. in anycase, you can't expect LHL to go on TV everymonth and highlight his montly wages can you? it's dumb. salary is meant to be for personal information only. and even though he's in the govt, i'm sure he is limited to his very own personal information.
and btw, i'm sure giving me articles that begins with "http://www.sdp.org" is very much appreciated. i would be damn if any article in it even highlights the pros of the govt. as such, i would deem most articles as this defamatory to the govt, and have a serious reliability question.
Actually, I think it would be good if politicians' salary could be pegged to the median salary of the workforce. That way they can really understand the impact of their own reforms monetarily; if they want more money, they had better make sure the people earn more! That's called responsibility and accountability (in 2 senses).
the pikamaster -
To: Pikamaster,
Truly loyal Singaporeans (not just pro-government) are those who will help all Singaporeans to realize better governance, fairplay, equity, accountability and transparency.
If people and leaders are liable to mistakes in over-paying themselves, correct those mistakes fast instead of trying to wait for economic recovery and justify entrenched hyper-pays.
I fully endorse your view to peg ministers' and civil servants' pays to workers' median pays (or moving averages of each category)
Why still so many ifs and buts on moderating the high pays of our ministers. Not many are of the top calibres like Bill Gate or Alan Greenspan as shown in the Asian Financial Crisis or last two recessions to enjoy hyer salaries by extrapolation from top earners. If Singapore finally found such hyper leaders, it is not too late to go to parliament and vote to increase that person or persons' pays. Assumptions about talents and leaders can be terribly unrealistic and off the mark. -
pikamaster.
than you have come to a crossroad in your life. based on what you say The Straits Time too have reliability question.
the question is, will normal singaporean rather read the Straits Time or SDP newsletter?
you could say i'm brainwashed by the government. but the fact that i have food to eat, water to drink shows the efficiency of the government. likewise, why destroy the golden geese? -
I rather read Guardian or BBC.Originally posted by runningismylife:pikamaster.
than you have come to a crossroad in your life. based on what you say The Straits Time too have reliability question.
the question is, will normal singaporean rather read the Straits Time or SDP newsletter?
you could say i'm brainwashed by the government. but the fact that i have food to eat, water to drink shows the efficiency of the government. likewise, why destroy the golden geese?
I think it is a hasty implication to imply that the opposiiton cannot govern efficiently, especially since they have not ruled SIngapore before. Besides, in the 1950s, WP (then Labour Front) did rule rather efficiently under Liim Yew Hock, didn't it? SO don't generalize too fast.
Actually, it would be good to read both to get a more balanced picture of goings-on.
the pikamaster -
They cant even run their party properly have can you expect them to run the country efficiently ?Originally posted by pikamaster:I rather read Guardian or BBC.
I think it is a hasty implication to imply that the opposiiton cannot govern efficiently, especially since they have not ruled SIngapore before. Besides, in the 1950s, WP (then Labour Front) did rule rather efficiently under Liim Yew Hock, didn't it? SO don't generalize too fast.
Actually, it would be good to read both to get a more balanced picture of goings-on.
the pikamaster -
The issue here is whether our talents who are highly paid are doing a good job, The standards to be set for talents should be: Are our talents or self-proclaimed talents producing a caring governance which is concerned with high costs, divisiveness into elites and subject class or quitters.Originally posted by paperchicken:They cant even run their party properly have can you expect them to run the country efficiently ?
Is the governance nowdays after so many years of presumptuous governance based on policies or decisions of a few still representative or winning the hearts and minds of the ordinary citizens to gain the respect and support willingly.
If the answers are yes, there is no need for us to ask youths or active citizenry to come forward to participate in political process or in this forum to give so many views and opinions. -
Oh ya. That reminds me. During that period, the minsters of our country justified their pay by saying something that, if you took 2 million SGD and divide by 4 million singaporeans, its roughly around 40 cents per person. Thats kinda cheap. You get high quality government at only 40 cents! Whats there to complain about? On top of that, the ministers have done an extremely good job in running the country and even have surplus to provide you cash top up in your CPF!!! WOW!Originally posted by devoid05:erms... the figure is estimated ard 1 million... there was a much heated debate in sg two years ago arising from an upward adjustment in ministerial wages as one of the highest in the world...
the question to ponder over is whether these ministers were subjected to salary freezes and pay-cuts when a recent recession hit sg... -
What the ministers perhaps did not regard as appropriate to work out was: after the civil servants are also paid all the talented pays, (superscale A - G) what would be the per capita cost of governance. Is it still 40 cents.Originally posted by shade343:Oh ya. That reminds me. During that period, the minsters of our country justified their pay by saying something that, if you took 2 million SGD and divide by 4 million singaporeans, its roughly around 40 cents per person. Thats kinda cheap. You get high quality government at only 40 cents! Whats there to complain about? On top of that, the ministers have done an extremely good job in running the country and even have surplus to provide you cash top up in your CPF!!! WOW!
It would be interesting to work out the final per capital cost of governance including payment of annuities at two third of last drawn pay (S$750K) for the rest of a minister's life after two terms in office. This part of the cost was also not considered important enough to work out perhaps.
How high is our cost of governance? Shuddle!!! only 40 cents per capita!!! How to believe in statistics !!! 
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what evidence do you have to support such a claim? The fact that they are not winning more than one GRC in elections? If so, then perhaps you should first check up on electoral fairness in Singapore.Originally posted by paperchicken:They cant even run their party properly have can you expect them to run the country efficiently ?
the uncomprehending pikamaster -
THink by writing such statements basically tells us your quality.Originally posted by pikamaster:Give me 5 good reasons then, and your second sentence still shows the same arrogance you displayed in your previous post.
The only posssible reason for students here being "soft" I can find is that they are not brave enough to stand up against the Ministry's insults toward them.
Anyway, alot changes in a few years, mainly because you have a different generation. How old r u, btw?
the puzzled pikamaster
Anyway, what has the Ministry insulted you with? I'm 24. Are students now 'soft' as compared to those from my batch. Definately!
I tutor part time to earn my keep and i have been doing so for the past 9 years. My observation is that students now just want to be spoon fed. Blame the schools, blame the ministry. But just to let you know, there are still tons who are making the mark if you don't. Make a guess why... Cos they study really hard and make the most of their time. People who moan and groan, are perfect examples of "Empty vessals make the most noise".