Is Goh Meng Seng really Atobe? Quality of Forum Opposition
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Hello All,
I have been a reader of this forum for the past two years, but have never really contributed until now. I feel compelled to do so due to the declining quality of many threads which have degenerated into slinging matches. Many contributors seem to lack any real knowledge of the issues discussed, and only appear interested in complaining endlessly, portraying government policies as bad, or attacking other users. The result is a whinging culture here.
That is not to say that all policies are perfect. In fact, many deserve public discussion- but just not the sort of quality (or lack of) that appears here. There is no real effort to know the issues in-depth, and what is produced is the sort of talk one finds in kopitiams on a lazy Sunday afternoon. I also find a greater inclination to quickly label those who disagree as 'anti-govt' and those who agree as 'pro-govt'. There is no need to divide people so readily into two opposing camps. -
This is a pointless thread. So what if he's Atobe or if he's not. Does it matter?
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I think ultimately it is a question of personal integrity which affects the quality of this forum.
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We are all people brought up by different faith, beliefs and school of thoughts. We can never reconcile with one another's beliefs. That is a fact. Everyone has their own perspectives and we cannot run by the small line in which we force others to follow. That is the equal freedom we have in thoughts, judgement and actions.Originally posted by WindyDay:I think ultimately it is a question of personal integrity which affects the quality of this forum.
In here, as long as someone is not bashing another's race, religion or language, we should not be biased and judgemental. We must give them equal vocal rights to their beliefs and for them to respect ours. As long nothing abusive comes around, I think we should accept this balance. -
Their styles may be different but Goh does less of mug slinging. so what if Goh is Atobe? May be Atobe find no head way in his original styles so he changes using another name. Any problem?
Do you have anything to say on any issues discussed or you want to keep to watch and judging? Identifying Goh as Atobe is not much of a contribution.
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We are all people brought up by different faith, beliefs and school of thoughts. We can never reconcile with one another's beliefs. That is a fact. Everyone has their own perspectives and we cannot run by the small line in which we force others to follow. That is the equal freedom we have in thoughts, judgement and actions.
those sentiments are highly commendable. i cannot but agree with you. however, my point in posting this thread is not to make anyone look bad but to articulate my thoughts.
In here, as long as someone is not bashing another's race, religion or language, we should not be biased and judgemental. We must give them equal vocal rights to their beliefs and for them to respect ours. As long nothing abusive comes around, I think we should accept this balance.
if you are offended in any way by this topic (although i know not what), i apologise.
perhaps you would like me to remove the lines regarding Goh/Atobe or in its entirety? i am most happy to oblige since you are more experienced than i am here. this is my first post of course. -
Dear Windy,
Who is Atobe?
Sorry, I am not Atobe. I am new to this forum, introduced by a friend.
Although I have been foruming in the cyberspace for more than a decade now, my main forum is soc.culture.singapore. Nickname MADCOW.
I would be very much interested to know who has the same style as I have.
But if you have any issues or points to bring against mine, please do so. You may find my posting pretty provoking, especially the use of titles, but this is what it is meant to do; provoke your mind, a mind teaser, to let most people to think out of the box. Not everybody could do such thing....nope, I am not boasting or anything like that, but it takes someone with original ideas (these ideas might have been explored by others, but unknown to them, yet, they are capable to come up with the same ideas on their own; this is originality), perspective to come up with such thought provoking ideas. And I think only a small percentage of people could escape the intensive social engineering that PAP has setup via the mass media and education system, to become an "independent thinker" of his own right. Most people would probably "feel" that something is not right, but not able to figure out what exactly is wrong with the whole system. With some consolation, the percentage of those who managed to escape the brain washing and social engineering is getting bigger. That's how I find it, which I termed as "enlightenment" out of the MATRIX.
As normal human being, we cannot profess to know everything under the sun; I doubt LKY knows everything under the sun. Political leaders are not expected to be so, but only to make sound judgment and decisions. It is silly to expect political parties to come up with "researches", "studies" and such; it would be making a mockery of those good fellows who many have spent almost their lifetime to do research on any issues we are talking here. Please respect them. You expect PAP to know exactly what New Water treatment is all about in exact details to sell New Water to Singaporeans? No, I do not expect them to be "experts" on ALL technical topics. They are afterall, supposedly to be leaders that have specific role to make good judgment based on the "COLLECTIVE" information provided by many people of great expertise. Thus, I think your expectation of "opposition" must be managed.
Goh Meng Seng -
Their styles may be different but Goh does less of mug slinging. so what if Goh is Atobe? May be Atobe find no head way in his original styles so he changes using another name. Any problem?
my first two paragraphs made general observations which I think are relevant to this forum. but i do think you are right about contributing to specific issues- i will do that.
Do you have anything to say on any issues discussed or you want to keep to watch and judging? Identifying Goh as Atobe is not much of a contribution.
do you think i should delete my original post? my intention is not to offend anyone. -
Dear Windy,
ahh, you have replied. i hope i have not caused offence to you. perhaps it's best if my lines regarding atobe and you are removed. i will do it now.
Who is Atobe?
Sorry, I am not Atobe. I am new to this forum, introduced by a friend.
Although I have been foruming in the cyberspace for more than a decade now, my main forum is soc.culture.singapore. Nickname MADCOW.
I would be very much interested to know who has the same style as I have.
you can also read up atobe's various posts from page 2 onwards. he has acquired a reputation for being.....errr..i leave you to make up your mind. -
The thread topic is too personal for my likings. I think we cannot stop people from complaining but can always advise them after that. The people with offensive agendas had their threads removed/locked appropriately by the mods here and I don't see it as a problem. We cannot stop crimes, but we can prevent it.
I believe you should not harp on the quality on the general topics. They do provoke people to think and thus lead to positive understanding for the general public. -
Dear Windy,
I think this thread is ok.
Once a while, forumites will post such thread.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by WindyDay:ahh, you have replied. i hope i have not caused offence to you. perhaps it's best if my lines regarding atobe and you are removed. i will do it now.
you can also read up atobe's various posts from page 2 onwards. he has acquired a reputation for being.....errr..i leave you to make up your mind. -
hmmm.... Atobe
Yoohoo Atobe where are you?
i see that you do have some views and a keen interest in politics.
Are you comfortable enough to drop me a mail? -
The thread topic is too personal for my likings. I think we cannot stop people from complaining but can always advise them after that. The people with offensive agendas had their threads removed/locked appropriately by the mods here and I don't see it as a problem. We cannot stop crimes, but we can prevent it.
well, it's hard to judge if what i say will offend others. but as a goodwill gesture, i have removed the lines comparing goh and atobe. my last intention is to become 'personal' or offend anyone least of all goh himself. it is what i dislike about many replies on other threads.
I believe you should not harp on the quality on the general topics. They do provoke people to think and thus lead to positive understanding for the general public.
i cannot concur with you on not talking about the "quality" of threads though. i feel that many lack quality to begin with... which is what prompted me to write this in the first place.
the topics certainly make people think i agree, but as to whether it promotes 'positive understanding' as you claim is another matter altogether. i dare say many will and do believe what they read here, to the extent that prejudices are reinforced, and the uninformed are misled even further. this is evident esp. when the issue at hand is factual.
sometimes it is the difficult dilemma of deciding between self-interest or the interests of the country. comments that are racist, biased, intentionally provocative easily find supporters, especially those who are not sufficiently informed and are already looking for an outlet to vent their feelings. i think these examples are self-evident in this forum.
having said all that, i hope the 'general public' is really the silent majority here who are now thinking "windyday, you are wrong. we know exactly what is going on here- who is genuine, who is not, who has a grasp of the subject, and who does not." -
offensive?Originally posted by WindyDay:you can also read up atobe's various posts from page 2 onwards. he has acquired a reputation for being.....errr..i leave you to make up your mind.
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Quality here not bad wat. At least better than Sammyboi.
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Personally, I feel quite bored with the constant complain and some even ridiculous complains and misconception. A lot of the thread are either just complain threads or/and those that highlight an issue, offer no solution and puts the blame to you know who. Some posters cannot even differentiate the difference between PAP, parliment, government and GLCs.
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Because last time dun have National Education.
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is there a difference between these few?Originally posted by Qitai:Personally, I feel quite bored with the constant complain and some even ridiculous complains and misconception. A lot of the thread are either just complain threads or/and those that highlight an issue, offer no solution and puts the blame to you know who. Some posters cannot even differentiate the difference between PAP, parliment, government and GLCs. the pap is the ruling party, so that means the govt is made up of mostly pap members and is of course is naturally ruled by a pap member at the head
so going by that the parliment's made up of pap too
and the GLCs are under the govt's control, working to further "singapore's" interests -
Harping on quality posts will only cause more fools to generate random nonsense here.Originally posted by WindyDay:well, it's hard to judge if what i say will offend others. but as a goodwill gesture, i have removed the lines comparing goh and atobe. my last intention is to become 'personal' or offend anyone least of all goh himself. it is what i dislike about many replies on other threads.
i cannot concur with you on not talking about the "quality" of threads though. i feel that many lack quality to begin with... which is what prompted me to write this in the first place.
the topics certainly make people think i agree, but as to whether it promotes 'positive understanding' as you claim is another matter altogether. i dare say many will and do believe what they read here, to the extent that prejudices are reinforced, and the uninformed are misled even further. this is evident esp. when the issue at hand is factual.
sometimes it is the difficult dilemma of deciding between self-interest or the interests of the country. comments that are racist, biased, intentionally provocative easily find supporters, especially those who are not sufficiently informed and are already looking for an outlet to vent their feelings. i think these examples are self-evident in this forum.
having said all that, i hope the 'general public' is really the silent majority here who are now thinking "windyday, you are wrong. we know exactly what is going on here- who is genuine, who is not, who has a grasp of the subject, and who does not."
The best way to help is to contribute what you think is good. -
Obviously you haven't see posts by *********4 and The ******* mrgreen:
opz I am getting personal.... :p
Well in any case, we practise FOC here. There is no bases to judge who writes better or whose post is of great quality...as long there is contribution {with exception to those who love to stalk moderators}, I believe all of us serious readers here will value them -
hug hug kiss kiss make up okie?
*hugs nelstar*
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Whinging occurs because people are not happy . Happens everywhere , even australia. I do enjoy questioning bad policies with plenty of enthusiam. However saying all these, I do feel hindered to do anything in Singapore . About a few years back when I was a student , I once took part in a live "open" discussion where there were 2 MPs answering questions. I asked something sensitive and I think it was a direct hit on their policies- and I was asked for my ic number and name by one particular MP. How did you think I felt and of course I was told never to bring what I said out of the room - it's a sudden sensation that you could be marked down. I was asking a simple question and imho got rail roaded despite being told to speak my mind before the start of the discussion. It is people like me who comes into these forums to speak because there is no point in going on a face to face confrontation with people in power.Originally posted by WindyDay:Hello All,
I have been a reader of this forum for the past two years, but have never really contributed until now. I feel compelled to do so due to the declining quality of many threads which have degenerated into slinging matches. Many contributors seem to lack any real knowledge of the issues discussed, and only appear interested in complaining endlessly, portraying government policies as bad, or attacking other users. The result is a whinging culture here.
That is not to say that all policies are perfect. In fact, many deserve public discussion- but just not the sort of quality (or lack of) that appears here. There is no real effort to know the issues in-depth, and what is produced is the sort of talk one finds in kopitiams on a lazy Sunday afternoon. I also find a greater inclination to quickly label those who disagree as 'anti-govt' and those who agree as 'pro-govt'. There is no need to divide people so readily into two opposing camps.
The aussies however enjoy a robust conversation and they are open ...they don't care about identification - free country as such. -
long felt sg is a disguised as a democracy. underneath? i'm not going to say. we all know.Originally posted by fymk:Whinging occurs because people are not happy . Happens everywhere , even australia. I do enjoy questioning bad policies with plenty of enthusiam. However saying all these, I do feel hindered to do anything in Singapore . About a few years back when I was a student , I once took part in a live "open" discussion where there were 2 MPs answering questions. I asked something sensitive and I think it was a direct hit on their policies- and I was asked for my ic number and name by one particular MP. How did you think I felt and of course I was told never to bring what I said out of the room - it's a sudden sensation that you could be marked down. I was asking a simple question and imho got rail roaded despite being told to speak my mind before the start of the discussion. It is people like me who comes into these forums to speak because there is no point in going on a face to face confrontation with people in power.
The aussies however enjoy a robust conversation and they are open ...they don't care about identification - free country as such. -
i miss atobe too.
he made me laugh so much on weekends...like watching comedy show. i think he deliberately write stupid things for entertainment somtimes.
his exchange with tidlwave bound to end oso. wonder why both of them so quiet now. no more posts from either.
but i think when one's standard is so high (tidalwave) and one so low (atobe) in terms og english, econs, and stats, writing style......unequal match sure create lots of spakrs.
plus oldbreadstinks oso never fight it out with atobe anymore. now back to reading people complain tis and tat here. damn sian.
never read how windyday compare gohmengseng with atobe. delete too fast. anyone saw? -
i dunno if u guys know this or did he promote himself. Goh Meng Seng is the co-ordinator of the Youth Action Committee 2004-2006 of WPS. more info: http://www.wp.org.sg/yac/youths2.htm#C2
i've got nth to do with him anyway. just to let u all know his background and history.