Uncle Goh sgForum better or Young PaP ?
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http://www.youngpap.org.sg/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=b31d5ac2669b22066d7fcfb186cb7a86
How come your WP no forum ?
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Dear Paperchicken,
First of all, there is no basis of comparison whether YPAP forum is better or SGforum better.
But in YPAP forum, I get more kick, due to some "hotting up" effect and changing to confrontational mode.
I wasn't serious when I apply to join YPAP forum but to test on PAP's "Open, Inclusive" concpet. I made known to them I am from Workers' Party. Well, it takes a while for my account to be activated but at least, it got activated.
There are some good forumites in YPAP forum, people like StrayCat (insightful and creative), Lai (knowledgable in infrastructure development due to his profession and also he is pretty good in Singapore political history), Vincent (sharp and very logical thinking) and even Modeus has his pluses. Of course, there PAP "bouncers" around, like Elfred. It is a good training ground for people like me. I need sparring partners as well as dancing partners to shape me up.
AS for SgForum, I think there are more "silent readers" around, some are critics of both PAP and opposition. But the fact is, it is a citizen's right to make his political stand and I believe, one has to make his stand. I do not believe in the "perfect" system, but I do believe we are far behind time in political reforms. There are really much to be done to improve our society as a whole. I believe there are also PAP bouncers around and they are more "dangerous" than Elfred in YPAP. They are just waiting to bite hard, I guess. It may seem to many that YPAP is a "hotter" place, but to me, SgForum is a more dangerous place.
As for why WP doesn't have a public forum like Sgforum or YPAP, you must read carefully the political act which restrict internet public forums which requires them to "register" and forum hosts are liable for all sorts of charges and responsibilities. Sintercom closed down basically of that. To me, since only YPAP forum ultimately become the only political entity that could host internet political public forum, just make use of it lor!
But WP does have created a "closed", invite only, internet political forum under Yahoo. It is not open to public for the most obvious reasons.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by paperchicken:http://www.youngpap.org.sg/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=b31d5ac2669b22066d7fcfb186cb7a86
How come your WP no forum ? -
I tot its tougher to survive in this forum. The mods seldom intervene unless its absolutly necessary. Sometimes debates can be very very intense. You miss the time when tat Atobe is here.
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ha ha, chicken sense that atobe smells like gms.Originally posted by paperchicken:I tot its tougher to survive in this forum. The mods seldom intervene unless its absolutly necessary. Sometimes debates can be very very intense. You miss the time when tat Atobe is here. 
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you mentioned debates, whats that got to do with atobe?Originally posted by paperchicken:I tot its tougher to survive in this forum. The mods seldom intervene unless its absolutly necessary. Sometimes debates can be very very intense. You miss the time when tat Atobe is here. 
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A more appropriate word maybe Mud slinging with names calling session. A test of who can use the most diverse range of vocabulary to insult the other party.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:you mentioned debates, whats that got to do with atobe? -
Dear Paperchicken,
I come from a forum that has no moderators. A "no man's land". I am pretty used to flame wars, mud slinging, punches and jabbings. No problem on that. I will not pull my punches unprovoked.
Paperchicken, there is more "danger" than flame wars and mudslinging here. I am more sensitive on this.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by paperchicken:I tot its tougher to survive in this forum. The mods seldom intervene unless its absolutly necessary. Sometimes debates can be very very intense. You miss the time when tat Atobe is here. -
*Loads an 84mm RCL with Mud rounds* assistant sights target, feeds coordinates.*Fire!* woosh...Splat!
"Oei!KNN...etc" you get the point... -
The ISD ? I dun give a damn.Originally posted by goh meng seng:Dear Paperchicken,
I come from a forum that has no moderators. A "no man's land". I am pretty used to flame wars, mud slinging, punches and jabbings. No problem on that. I will not pull my punches unprovoked.
Paperchicken, there is more "danger" than flame wars and mudslinging here. I am more sensitive on this.
Goh Meng Seng -
Now got school of Ideology
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Dear Paperchicken,
Hahahha.... if ISD is not monitoring forums like this one, then I would be very worried.
As a person willingly putting myself right infront of public forum, I am open to public scrutiny. ISD used to have a big file on me already (I think they still keep it). There are only two things on my mind.
First, there is a pyschologist unit which is monitoring people like me. In fact, they study the content/materials and make psychological profiles of opposition politicians and people that could put up potential "threats" to PAP's monopoly of power. The data collection process is a long drawn one. They check on people right from where they are from; if you graduate from NUS econs department, they will check on your essays, thesis...everything. To make up a psychological profiles on how your mind work, what tickle you most, how would you react to situations...etc etc.
But individuals are not stagnant, they evolve over time. So, coming to forum like this one or YPAP, will provide a good field data collection for them. Thus, sometimes, I don't reveal my personality too much, choose to reveal things that would confuse them.....etc. But over time, it is inevitable that we would reveal our psychological state of mind to these people. This pyschological profile is important at "critical time"; especially during election period when there is heavy stress and people tend to lost guard of themselves and make grave mistakes. This profile will provide a guide on how to tackle your opponent, make him angry and make him make mistakes. Politics is all about perception.
Secondly, there are silent serpents around in this forum, which will jump up and bite suddenly. Barking dogs don't really kill, those kill, normally don't bark. I could sense their presence. Their only attempt is to choose the weakest point to bite the hardest, to use one issue to discredit the whole individual or even the whole political party or "Opposition" as a whole. As an active forumite, you should train yourself to look out for these people.
AS for ISD checking on me? Hahaha... I have nothing to hide. I think I have
been through it already.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by paperchicken:The ISD ? I dun give a damn. -
It's hardest to survive in Sammyboy!!!Originally posted by paperchicken:I tot its tougher to survive in this forum. The mods seldom intervene unless its absolutly necessary. Sometimes debates can be very very intense. You miss the time when tat Atobe is here.
the pikamaster -
nah, all you have to do is start your every post with a "i hate pap" and end it with a "i hate pap"Originally posted by pikamaster:It's hardest to survive in Sammyboy!!!
the pikamaster -
wah kaoz after reading mr goh's speech i suddenly picture myself in a jungle with snipers all around
zzzz wats the world coming to... *destorying my all my thesis* -
Opinion moulding is part and parcel of the political process. Normally, in a country runs by a dictatorship, opinion moulding or brain washing is more intense.
As for people in this forum is more of "middle ground" people, it is difficult to make them "love" PAP. But it is important that this group of people don't cross over to the opposition side. Thus, I guess it is natural for them to use an alternative tactic to mould the opinion of forumites here; to install the image that even though PAP is not lovable, but "opposition" is useless, incapable of anything....etc etc. Thus, voting PAP would be a better choice. This is the "stand" that I feel, is subtlely installed in this forum when I first came in.
Normally such image or opinion moulding is done by using single incident or single individual's mistakes to project such perception. Dr. Chee has been mentioned again and again to brain wash such perception into viewers here. Nobody really bothers to differentiate between the different political parties or even check out on the development of these parties anymore. That's where the serpents bite and come into picture. It is a subtle but distinguish social engineering of mindsets.
Normally these people are not interested in "debating" on issues but rather, starting wild fire with a match stick. They will wait quietly for such opportunity. Sometimes, they will even set traps for you to step in and if you unwittingly step into it, they will go for the kill.
These agents exist with vicious intent. To "demolish" any potential threat in one swoop. But sometimes, they failed, they will just retreat into the background, waiting for another opportunity again.
Well, for normal forumites, you do not need to be worried because you are only their subjects of "social engineering", not their targets of demolition. You will only need to beware of their attempts of social engineering and trying to poison your mind with certain perceptions. If not, you will only vote according what they want you to.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by dibilo:wah kaoz after reading mr goh's speech i suddenly picture myself in a jungle with snipers all around
zzzz wats the world coming to... *destorying my all my thesis* -
do they hate opposition party also ?Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:nah, all you have to do is start your every post with a "i hate pap" and end it with a "i hate pap" -
Hi Goh
After reading your very informative articles, it seems to me you are suggesting a conspiracy theory exists which is closely monitored by professionals right down to psychological profile. It means forum users who 'start fires with a matchstick' present a moderate problem and 'dogs who kill but dun bark' offer a serious 'threat'.
While plausible, it would mean an internal watchdog agency exists which employs a significant number of ppl tasked with monitoring key web channels and dialogues of the local population. Such a clandestine operation would be difficult to keep under wraps, impossible at worst. And in a small community like ourselves, word would have gotten out, rumours spread like wildfires.
In any ruling governent body, there will also be a vested interest in maintaining the status quo; if this means smearing dirt on your opposition, giving distorted half-truths to the public or screening your own ppl to weed out potential trouble-makers and recruit future leaders.
Currently, users can be traced through basic IP address tracking programs. Your internet connection can isolated, identified and although everyone here hides behind a shroud of secrecy or so they believe, it is a simple matter to check your identity.
Despite all this, i hope i haven't chased away too many would-be users with this post. After all, this is all mere 'speculation'..... -
so wat if they do know who we are ? we live in Sg not North Korea. Is the ISD going to arrest me for saying something against the govt ? If they want to, the jails will be overflowing by now. The kind of censorship James Gomez talk abt dun exist anymore. He is just trying to create a bogeyman so his foreign supporters will continue to fund him.
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You make life sound so complicated
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Dear Billy,
This is not about "conspiracy", but under "National Security". Rest assured that such psychology unit exists.
If you follow the news reporting in Singapore for the past few years, you will realize which organization such pyschological unit belongs to. I shall not deal with it here as it involves National security. And yes, they do have a very advanced technology in such internet policing.
Let's take Robert Ho's case. Who do you think send instructions to arrest him for "criminal defamation"? Throughout the whole process, no one debates with him or argue with him with regards to his postings in various forums, especially those in soc.culture.singapore. The serpent just bites from silent.
And you are right. Forumites should not have the "false sense of security" when they use nicknames. As long as you use Singapore ISP, you are traceable. For Foriegn ISP, a bit difficult but still could be traced. Just be responsible in your writings.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by BillyBong:Hi Goh
After reading your very informative articles, it seems to me you are suggesting a conspiracy theory exists which is closely monitored by professionals right down to psychological profile. It means forum users who 'start fires with a matchstick' present a moderate problem and 'dogs who kill but dun bark' offer a serious 'threat'.
While plausible, it would mean an internal watchdog agency exists which employs a significant number of ppl tasked with monitoring key web channels and dialogues of the local population. Such a clandestine operation would be difficult to keep under wraps, impossible at worst. And in a small community like ourselves, word would have gotten out, rumours spread like wildfires.
In any ruling governent body, there will also be a vested interest in maintaining the status quo; if this means smearing dirt on your opposition, giving distorted half-truths to the public or screening your own ppl to weed out potential trouble-makers and recruit future leaders.
Currently, users can be traced through basic IP address tracking programs. Your internet connection can isolated, identified and although everyone here hides behind a shroud of secrecy or so they believe, it is a simple matter to check your identity.
Despite all this, i hope i haven't chased away too many would-be users with this post. After all, this is all mere 'speculation'..... -
Oh, you don't have to worry about that.No one is going to take away my inalienable rights as a man to make my own choices.You present a good argument but perhaps the fear of many is unfounded.And it is a catch-22 that prevents people with alternative views to enter the government.Originally posted by goh meng seng:Opinion moulding is part and parcel of the political process. Normally, in a country runs by a dictatorship, opinion moulding or brain washing is more intense.
As for people in this forum is more of "middle ground" people, it is difficult to make them "love" PAP. But it is important that this group of people don't cross over to the opposition side. Thus, I guess it is natural for them to use an alternative tactic to mould the opinion of forumites here; to install the image that even though PAP is not lovable, but "opposition" is useless, incapable of anything....etc etc. Thus, voting PAP would be a better choice. This is the "stand" that I feel, is subtlely installed in this forum when I first came in.
Normally such image or opinion moulding is done by using single incident or single individual's mistakes to project such perception. Dr. Chee has been mentioned again and again to brain wash such perception into viewers here. Nobody really bothers to differentiate between the different political parties or even check out on the development of these parties anymore. That's where the serpents bite and come into picture. It is a subtle but distinguish social engineering of mindsets.
Normally these people are not interested in "debating" on issues but rather, starting wild fire with a match stick. They will wait quietly for such opportunity. Sometimes, they will even set traps for you to step in and if you unwittingly step into it, they will go for the kill.
These agents exist with vicious intent. To "demolish" any potential threat in one swoop. But sometimes, they failed, they will just retreat into the background, waiting for another opportunity again.
Well, for normal forumites, you do not need to be worried because you are only their subjects of "social engineering", not their targets of demolition. You will only need to beware of their attempts of social engineering and trying to poison your mind with certain perceptions. If not, you will only vote according what they want you to.
Goh Meng Seng -
I wonder when Ngiam Tong Dow will be lock up by ISD for his robust criticism of the govt.
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Dear Barracuda,
As long as Mr. Ngiam does not cross that line, I don't think he will get into trouble. He knows about this, of course.
PAP is intolerable of people who used to be in the system but later, turn their head and bite the hands that feed them. JBJ is one of them. Francis Seow and Tang Liang Hong are the ones that followed that fatal footsteps.
What Mr. Ngiam has revealed so far, is fair comment. He has become the "whistle blower" standing on that little fine line. But as far as he does not cross that fine line, he should be ok.
BTW, why should you think a good person like Mr. Ngiam should get into trouble?
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by The Barracuda:I wonder when Ngiam Tong Dow will be lock up by ISD for his robust criticism of the govt. -
u have to make ur post coherent too, u know...besides, I meant it is really hard to square off with reason there...Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:nah, all you have to do is start your every post with a "i hate pap" and end it with a "i hate pap"