goh meng seng, good or bad?
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Additionally, I am disappointed with this response since you clearly stated that they had some "creative" accounting. But now, when asked, tells me to check with another person.Originally posted by goh meng seng:If you really want to know how HDB do their accounts, as any accountants or Financial controllers that have worked with MNCs before.
It got to do with internal pricing and things like that to minimize tax liabilities.
Goh Meng Seng
I am suspicious of the account, but I do not know what is wrong, so I cannot say it is wrong. If you are in the same situation as me, then we are both just being suspicious. If you do know something, what is stopping you from letting me know here. PM me if you feel it is too sensitive to say it out publicly. -
Ok, Qitai, I will do this on a personal favour.
The MNC will do this to reduce taxes. For example, MNC will always choose a place with very low tax to be its base of revenue collections. It will open up an operation in Singapore which may have higher taxes. Thus, to avoid being taxed too high in Singapore, through internal pricing, it will say the MNC's base provides certain raw material or services and charge this into the operation in Singapore. Now, it would become a cost factor to the Singapore's operations, which is not necessary so if it purchase the raw material DIRECTLY from the suppliers. But due to the "centralize" policy, it has to buy from the MNC's base, giving it a profit determined solely by the MNC alone!
Thus through such schemes, MNCs literally "transferred" earnings out of the Singapore's operations.
In HDB's case, the govt could well give HDB the one time off endowment fund to start off, lending to HDB flat buyers, earning interests from them, then use these earnings to really subsidize the flats it sold. But no, this will not do because it will not show that HDB is "losing money" in giving subsidies to Singaporeans!
I suspect the "Capital Expenditure" on Land is the "premium" HDB is asked to pay govt for use of land that HDB itself might have acquired throught he Land Acquisition Act. This premium is the result of the "price difference" between acquired price and market price. HDB is deemed merely as "proxy holder" of these land on behalf of the Govt. When it uses them, it has to pay the Govt. This is why it must use "MARKET SUBSIDY" concept to sell the idea that HDB is in deficits because it is giving "subsidies"! And to illustrate this point, the "subsidies" are shown as "govt grants" to HDB! But they didn't tell the whole story; HDB may be "losing money" but the Govt is not! In fact, wouldn't one be curious about HDB's claim that it has so much reserves accumulated from the past even when it is "losing money" in providing the "market subsidies"?
This is like saying the MNC's Singapore operations are losing money but the MNC with its base, are not losing money from Singapore's operations by means of these internal pricing!
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by Qitai:Additionally, I am disappointed with this response since you clearly stated that they had some "creative" accounting. But now, when asked, tells me to check with another person.
I am suspicious of the account, but I do not know what is wrong, so I cannot say it is wrong. If you are in the same situation as me, then we are both just being suspicious. If you do know something, what is stopping you from letting me know here. PM me if you feel it is too sensitive to say it out publicly. -
Do we need to grill each opposition member on all issues before we accept them? I would like to see some forumites who can identify themselves as PAP members and lets hear some PAP views, rather than many who speak for singapore as patriats but will not acknowledge any link with PAP.
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Dear sgdiehard,
It is quite normal for people to grill us on various issues. I think it is a good practice, both for Singapore's development as well as alternative parties. This is due to the fact that Singaporeans have been subjected to various social engineered opinions on "Opposition" on the whole that they are trouble makers, useless, not contributing to Nation building etc. It is only due prudence for people to check for themselves what we really are and stand for. If they are not doing it but simply take what the proporgandas as "truth", then we will not have the chance to fight back to clarify such distorted views!
Thus, I think it is good opportunity and sparring sessions for us to engage in this grilling. It sharpens our minds, provides an opportunity for us to demonstrate the right perspective of Workers' Party.
Of course, for PAP, as an incumbant, they have their vast advantage over us. It seems that the mass media has done a good job to show the BEST side of PAP and thus, nobody ever doubt the "abilities" or "substance" of PAP members or even MPs. This, in turn, result political complacency on PAP's as well as voters' part.
I think in the long run, it is good for us, bad for PAP. It makes us more "all rounded", formulate our views on various issues as we are expected to be "proficient". Most of the views I have put up here are really NOTHING NEW to me, though they are my original thoughts and views. I have long formed opinions and views on various issues based on my learning and training in economics, most importantly, common sense. It is just a matter of reorganizing these views back and draw it out of memories. But it could be quite taxing at times, because I need to consider my target audience' level of understanding.
Thus, you can see that I have so far, never run away from questions posed to me, as a form of grilling. I welcome them, in fact.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by sgdiehard:Do we need to grill each opposition member on all issues before we accept them? I would like to see some forumites who can identify themselves as PAP members and lets hear some PAP views, rather than many who speak for singapore as patriats but will not acknowledge any link with PAP. -
I hope the PAP member din chickened out. I see no point in grilling the opposition member when we are paying million dollars to the PAP member to do the jobs. And what had they done?
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Dear GMS,
A diamond remains a stone unless it is polished. The harder the polishing the more shining it becomes. Perseverance in staying the course will ultimately bring out its value.
Be encouraged, you have my respect and support.
Have a good day!
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To Meng Seng,Originally posted by goh meng seng:Dear vito_corleone,
Please leave option 2 out. I would be very happy if there are good people to take the PM job, I am least interested in that.
IN fact, if there are more people who I feel is far better than I am to build a better, balanced political system in Singapore, I am most willing to lay back again, be my own armchair critic like most of the people here again! That makes life alot easier than now.
Goh Meng Seng
if u really serious, join Steve Chia, we need more ppl like u .... else i dunno who to vote too. so far, more CAN MAKE IT opposition in my mind r:
1) Chiam See tong
2) Low (Fr. HG) cant rem his full name
3) Steve Chia
maybe u can join the bunch a form another party ? -
One simple comment:
Goh's not really cut out to lead.
Put it this way, everyone knows Einstein knows many things man knows and man don't... But he's better an inventor than a businessman.
Just my personal take. May not be same as yours. -
Heck who is Goh Meng Seng? The only Goh i know is Goh Chok Tong.Originally posted by vito_corleone:after witnessing so many posts by your dear "opposition-all-the-way" forumite, i decided to create this sorta poll. no offense to you GMS...its just to see what is everyone's opinion.
OK here it goes:
Should GMS:
1)RUN FOR PARLIAMENT?
2)BE OUR PM?
3)JUST TAKE HIS WHACKEY IDEAS ABOUT REFORM SOMEWHERE ELSE BECAUSE IT JUST DOSEN'T WORK/ALL TALK NO ACTION.
(WHO'S NEXT TO LIVE BEHIND A SHADOW?!
) -
Wa, its Christmas and you came all the way from YPAP forum to condemn GMS?Originally posted by Elfred:One simple comment:
Goh's not really cut out to lead.
Put it this way, everyone knows Einstein knows many things man knows and man don't... But he's better an inventor than a businessman.
Just my personal take. May not be same as yours.
I have been reading YPAP forum although got no time to post there. You sure are establishing yourself as a blind PAP supporter eh? Even pro-PAP Modeus cannot stand you. Go on and no one will believe you anymore.
EmptyCage -
GMS is already with WP, in other words he joined Low Thia Kiang (thats his full name). Why should he forsake a MP who won in his own right and won twice again for a NCMP who got in praised by Goh CT?Originally posted by HhhhandsOmE01:To Meng Seng,
if u really serious, join Steve Chia, we need more ppl like u .... else i dunno who to vote too. so far, more CAN MAKE IT opposition in my mind r:
1) Chiam See tong
2) Low (Fr. HG) cant rem his full name
3) Steve Chia
maybe u can join the bunch a form another party ?
Can 3 people be a party? If all 3 resign and form a party with only themselves, they will all lose their seats at the next general elections! An MP gets into parliament with the help of his ground people.
Watch the parties (WP, SDP, SDA), not the personalities.
EmptyCage -
It's not belief that such is thrived on.Originally posted by EmptyCage:Wa, its Christmas and you came all the way from YPAP forum to condemn GMS?
I have been reading YPAP forum although got no time to post there. You sure are establishing yourself as a blind PAP supporter eh? Even pro-PAP Modeus cannot stand you. Go on and no one will believe you anymore.
EmptyCage
It's not Modues that matters, nor his support.
Let's be very objective. Mr Low should realise Goh is not appropriate to lead.
Why should I not condemn Mr Low or Xinglong? Why should I not condemn Mr JBJ or Mr Chiam? Of so many people, why only Goh (in this instance)?
I'm not condemning. It's just a fact. He's not an appropriate choice for clean politics. (Condemning is not the appropriate word here.)
Modeus is pro-PAP or not, that is not my problem. On the other hand, even if Goh is PAP itself, the remark will still be the same. PAP doesn't make one anymore appropriate, opposition doesn't make anyone not appropriate.
If my old friend becomes inappropriate, the same remarks go for him. Same for myself. Goh should understand very clearly of why he has obtained such acknowledgement. Anyway, Goh would be an asset to WP, though not politically so.
Are you still with WP, anyway? -
>> Let's be very objective. Mr Low should realise Goh is not appropriate to lead.
EC: You think so? So you are better? A PAP member has no right to say what he thinks should be a WP leader.
>> Why should I not condemn Mr Low or Xinglong? Why should I not condemn Mr JBJ or Mr Chiam? Of so many people, why only Goh (in this instance)?
EC: Have you not condemn Yaw? I read it somewhere in the YPAP forum.
When you said WP is a mini PAP, you already criticizing Low's leadership becos he is the leader. Tell me no?
>> I'm not condemning. It's just a fact. He's not an appropriate choice for clean politics. (Condemning is not the appropriate word here.)
EC: Criticizing would have been the appropriate word had it not been for the fact that your very first posting here is on GMS. Which means you came all the way from YPAP forum to try and discredit him here. So it becomes condemn. Good try, but he has his supporters here. Too bad.
What? You gonna say they should know better?
>> Modeus is pro-PAP or not, that is not my problem. On the other hand, even if Goh is PAP itself, the remark will still be the same. PAP doesn't make one anymore appropriate, opposition doesn't make anyone not appropriate.
EC: I can believe you if I am reading you for the first time. But your various posting says otherwise. Opposition has been criticized by you. Then you come all the way here knowing he is a regular here to condemn him. Surely you did not come to participate? You say if GMS is a PAP member, you will do the same? I say, LOL.........
>> Are you still with WP, anyway?
EC: In membership or in heart? I was never a member but I recognize this party has the most potential to go further and you can say my heart's with it. If not WP, definitely not SDA or whatever party. Or a PAP split (which I am not going to wait for). I help them on sporadic times.
EmptyCage -
BTW you really make me laugh when you said 'objective'. Surely you are famous in YPAP forum for being the least 'objective'. I have talked to so many PAP members and supporters before. Your comments make you the most partisan I have seen. Objective? You can be compare to QXP of Sammyboymod forum who is madly pro-opposition.Originally posted by Elfred:Let's be very objective. Mr Low should realise Goh is not appropriate to lead.
And the way you talk, you give people the impression you are a gentleman. Maybe you are one. But you can be described as a 'si wen bai lei'.
Lastly, stop your lies on knowing Yaw as your 'good friend'. AFAIK he doesn't remember knowing anyone like you. If you want to prove what you are saying is not lies and if you got the guts, show your face at WP openhouse on Mondays.
EmptyCage -
Dear Cage,
Hahaha... it is damn funny! Don't need to waste time with Elfred lah! His boss is a PAP MP and he got to do what he got to do!
I think I must have done something very right for Elfred to come all the way from YPAP to this forum just to smear on me! He is actually bordering the line of defamation in fact! "He is not good for clean politics", he claimed. So if I ask him what does he actually means by "not good for clean politics", most probably I will have fun suing him bankrupt!
I will keep the pressures on PAP whenever I can. Let them feel some heat on the ground.
And I wonder whether Elfred old boy would be game enough to go to Sammyboy forum or not, in his original nick! Let we have some fun there instead!
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by EmptyCage:
[b]>> Let's be very objective. Mr Low should realise Goh is not appropriate to lead.
EC: You think so? So you are better? A PAP member has no right to say what he thinks should be a WP leader. -
1. Run for it, GMSOriginally posted by vito_corleone:after witnessing so many posts by your dear "opposition-all-the-way" forumite, i decided to create this sorta poll. no offense to you GMS...its just to see what is everyone's opinion.
OK here it goes:
Should GMS:
1)RUN FOR PARLIAMENT?
2)BE OUR PM?
3)JUST TAKE HIS WHACKEY IDEAS ABOUT REFORM SOMEWHERE ELSE BECAUSE IT JUST DOSEN'T WORK/ALL TALK NO ACTION.
2. I think i would be a better PM
3. No, GMS must stay. -
At least for now, GMS bothers to listen and give long reasonable replies to all questions. The PAP wont listen to us! Didn't they go ahead and raise the bus fare and GST even though we all protested?
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Whatever.Originally posted by EmptyCage:>> Let's be very objective. Mr Low should realise Goh is not appropriate to lead.
EC: You think so? So you are better? A PAP member has no right to say what he thinks should be a WP leader.
>> Why should I not condemn Mr Low or Xinglong? Why should I not condemn Mr JBJ or Mr Chiam? Of so many people, why only Goh (in this instance)?
EC: Have you not condemn Yaw? I read it somewhere in the YPAP forum.
When you said WP is a mini PAP, you already criticizing Low's leadership becos he is the leader. Tell me no?
>> I'm not condemning. It's just a fact. He's not an appropriate choice for clean politics. (Condemning is not the appropriate word here.)
EC: Criticizing would have been the appropriate word had it not been for the fact that your very first posting here is on GMS. Which means you came all the way from YPAP forum to try and discredit him here. So it becomes condemn. Good try, but he has his supporters here. Too bad.
What? You gonna say they should know better?
>> Modeus is pro-PAP or not, that is not my problem. On the other hand, even if Goh is PAP itself, the remark will still be the same. PAP doesn't make one anymore appropriate, opposition doesn't make anyone not appropriate.
EC: I can believe you if I am reading you for the first time. But your various posting says otherwise. Opposition has been criticized by you. Then you come all the way here knowing he is a regular here to condemn him. Surely you did not come to participate? You say if GMS is a PAP member, you will do the same? I say, LOL.........
>> Are you still with WP, anyway?
EC: In membership or in heart? I was never a member but I recognize this party has the most potential to go further and you can say my heart's with it. If not WP, definitely not SDA or whatever party. Or a PAP split (which I am not going to wait for). I help them on sporadic times.
EmptyCage
As for Yaw...
He was a prefect in primary school in Doc Wong KY's constituency. His academic results considered not bad.
He went somewhere for sec. Lost contact.
He went to JJC, was in the swimming club, and almost weekly went swimming with a friend...
After JC, he went to local uni.
His mother, my impression is, always very gan cheong for her boy. She spoke in a high tone (voice), and speaks English.
There is no need, hence for him to remember old boys. But it's a fact that I do know him.
It's also a fact that I wish him well and make positive contributions for the political development of Singapore. After all, he's one of the future politicians in Singapore's list already.
As for others who are against PAP. Let's just say, be against of mistakes and problems, and critically assessing not on merely the party. Within the party, are still kind souls and good hearts.
Using Mr Chiam as example for Goh MS. When his own party cadres supported Dr Chee and threw him out, they may not realise Dr Chee may not be the better man in politics than Mr Chiam. Goh is still far from been a desirable element for political progress.
My comment, however, does not necessarily represents PAP's stance. I do suggest Goh tried help out WP, anyway, since Mr Low would definitely need all the help he could garner. -
Hehehe...Originally posted by goh meng seng:Dear Cage,
Hahaha... it is damn funny! Don't need to waste time with Elfred lah! His boss is a PAP MP and he got to do what he got to do!
I think I must have done something very right for Elfred to come all the way from YPAP to this forum just to smear on me! He is actually bordering the line of defamation in fact! "He is not good for clean politics", he claimed. So if I ask him what does he actually means by "not good for clean politics", most probably I will have fun suing him bankrupt!
I will keep the pressures on PAP whenever I can. Let them feel some heat on the ground.
And I wonder whether Elfred old boy would be game enough to go to Sammyboy forum or not, in his original nick! Let we have some fun there instead!
Goh Meng Seng
Goh,
Sammyboy forum? One of the list includes my exclusion of my pressence there.
Bordering the defamation? Hahahaha... ... Well, put it this way, if that'd be the case, you'd probably be the first to be sued for a (twisted) comment on myself in YP forum (eg). Let's not talk about defamation.
You seem to equate me with PAP...??? Which is rather funny. I make my views on personal opinions from a personal point of view, as you or other netters would on any person or any matter.
Mr Chiam and Mr JBJ are both lawyers, perhaps you should realise with relation to this topic, my reply carries no malicious intents nor even unintentional defamation is valid. I don't see any motive of myself even linked to anything but a account of my personal views to be shared by the topic.
You wanna sue on such personal opinions presented?
Look at the way you reply? Simply jump to an assertion you would be able to sue me to bankruptcy for the private opinion that you ain't appropriate for clean politics. Is this the cut of a leader who jump guns? What about your assertions on HDB and GST directed at the party's ministries and hence ministers? How many times do you think you wanna be sued on your opinion on the incumbent as well?
Grow up, Goh. You ain't really appropriate. And please, this is a citizen's personal view. Or you suppose I can't even have such right to express a simple view or I must lie, to which not of my sincere view? Or you wanna call the ISD to silent me?
Please lah.
By the way, to inform EC and you, my pressence here is due to the boring day when YPforum was closed for the day.
I am shifting back to that forum, anyway. Regards.
And Happy New Year. -
'...EC: Criticizing would have been the appropriate word had it not been for the fact that your very first posting here is on GMS. Which means you came all the way from YPAP forum to try and discredit him here. So it becomes condemn. Good try, but he has his supporters here. Too bad...'Originally posted by EmptyCage:>> Let's be very objective. Mr Low should realise Goh is not appropriate to lead.
EC: You think so? So you are better? A PAP member has no right to say what he thinks should be a WP leader.
>> Why should I not condemn Mr Low or Xinglong? Why should I not condemn Mr JBJ or Mr Chiam? Of so many people, why only Goh (in this instance)?
EC: Have you not condemn Yaw? I read it somewhere in the YPAP forum.
When you said WP is a mini PAP, you already criticizing Low's leadership becos he is the leader. Tell me no?
>> I'm not condemning. It's just a fact. He's not an appropriate choice for clean politics. (Condemning is not the appropriate word here.)
EC: Criticizing would have been the appropriate word had it not been for the fact that your very first posting here is on GMS. Which means you came all the way from YPAP forum to try and discredit him here. So it becomes condemn. Good try, but he has his supporters here. Too bad.
What? You gonna say they should know better?
>> Modeus is pro-PAP or not, that is not my problem. On the other hand, even if Goh is PAP itself, the remark will still be the same. PAP doesn't make one anymore appropriate, opposition doesn't make anyone not appropriate.
EC: I can believe you if I am reading you for the first time. But your various posting says otherwise. Opposition has been criticized by you. Then you come all the way here knowing he is a regular here to condemn him. Surely you did not come to participate? You say if GMS is a PAP member, you will do the same? I say, LOL.........
>> Are you still with WP, anyway?
EC: In membership or in heart? I was never a member but I recognize this party has the most potential to go further and you can say my heart's with it. If not WP, definitely not SDA or whatever party. Or a PAP split (which I am not going to wait for). I help them on sporadic times.
EmptyCage
It's rather funny to simply assume that I mean this because (as if you are me and know I must have such intention) I come all the way (now, that's not true.) to condemn. The funniest thing is this. Given a topic as such, in cyberspace, you seems to assume that supporters matter to determine my views about Goh (good or bad). So, too bad for what?
And so on.
So you not a member lah... Emm... Actually opposition do have their potential, as I have mentioned many times. However, to be true (in my views) opposition lack credible political brains, as Liu Bei lacked Zhuge. There is no need to agree with me. But it should be very well-known that opposition will never make an impact big enough going in the wrong direction.
Your emotion will only helps if the incumbent did something silly consecutively over a period of time, loses control of its machanism, angers the people hence far enough, and opposition is under a strong and wise leadership, and of course, ready (in the eyes of the population) to replace the incumbent.
Hopefully, if such times do happen, do not come when I'm still with the incumbent. For some recent happenings, I would stay for another two years after membership expires in a year's time with the incumbent, provided (as usual) no trigger/s be hit.
But my most interested question is still, how would Singapore be governed and become when such days do come. -
Hi MS and CageOriginally posted by goh meng seng:Dear Cage,
Hahaha... it is damn funny! Don't need to waste time with Elfred lah! His boss is a PAP MP and he got to do what he got to do!
I think I must have done something very right for Elfred to come all the way from YPAP to this forum just to smear on me! He is actually bordering the line of defamation in fact! "He is not good for clean politics", he claimed. So if I ask him what does he actually means by "not good for clean politics", most probably I will have fun suing him bankrupt!
I will keep the pressures on PAP whenever I can. Let them feel some heat on the ground.
And I wonder whether Elfred old boy would be game enough to go to Sammyboy forum or not, in his original nick! Let we have some fun there instead!
Goh Meng Seng
Relax lah. This guy wants to be a clown let him be.
He is quite entertaining actually especially when you read the intention between the lines of his posts. Was he ever any different?
Put it this way, in between tempting for a bank and managing his wife and daddy problems, he still has so much so much time to spend on the net to come all the way just to pass comments on our Meng Seng, Shin Leong etc etc. God knows who he is actually temping for.
Have a heart and let him be. He needs to impress his bosses with his posts. He cant justify his presence in YP and maybe in his life if he does not carry on posting the way has.
He swaggers into this forum and starts asserting that somebody is not able to lead. That this person should serve and be and asset and so on. That he knows this person and tries to prove it with some scraps of incomplete history.
He speaks as if he knows some of us pretty well! ha ha ha
Elfred ... the way to win an election is to win the hearts and minds of the people. No need to try to dissuade your opponents from running. You would hate to tell your bosses cos by then you may be out of job but then it could liberate you from having to hide behind that nick (dun give me that crap that you had unsuccessfully tried to sign up in your full name) and post things that you dare not do so with your real name.
PAPies come forward and post your "opinions" with openness and integrity.
Dont make me ashamed of you.
MS and Cage, thank you for your energy.
Let the discerning discern from the postings.
As for the not so discerning... lost sheep... let them be it will be too hard to fight against prejudices.
The people will decide eventually not Elfred and the like.
-
'...Elfred ... the way to win an election is to win the hearts and minds of the people. No need to try to dissuade your opponents from running. You would hate to tell your bosses cos by then you may be out of job but then it could liberate you from having to hide behind that nick (dun give me that crap that you had unsuccessfully tried to sign up in your full name) and post things that you dare not do so with your real name.Originally posted by Chia Ti Lik:Hi MS and Cage
Relax lah. This guy wants to be a clown let him be.
He is quite entertaining actually especially when you read the intention between the lines of his posts. Was he ever any different?
Put it this way, in between tempting for a bank and managing his wife and daddy problems, he still has so much so much time to spend on the net to come all the way just to pass comments on our Meng Seng, Shin Leong etc etc. God knows who he is actually temping for.
Have a heart and let him be. He needs to impress his bosses with his posts. He cant justify his presence in YP and maybe in his life if he does not carry on posting the way has.
He swaggers into this forum and starts asserting that somebody is not able to lead. That this person should serve and be and asset and so on. That he knows this person and tries to prove it with some scraps of incomplete history.
He speaks as if he knows some of us pretty well! ha ha ha
Elfred ... the way to win an election is to win the hearts and minds of the people. No need to try to dissuade your opponents from running. You would hate to tell your bosses cos by then you may be out of job but then it could liberate you from having to hide behind that nick (dun give me that crap that you had unsuccessfully tried to sign up in your full name) and post things that you dare not do so with your real name.
PAPies come forward and post your "opinions" with openness and integrity.
Dont make me ashamed of you.
MS and Cage, thank you for your energy.
Let the discerning discern from the postings.
As for the not so discerning... lost sheep... let them be it will be too hard to fight against prejudices.
The people will decide eventually not Elfred and the like.
PAPies come forward and post your "opinions" with openness and integrity.
Dont make me ashamed of you...'
There is always such thing as PAP vs oppositionz and so on and so forth.
As those who jeer, or mocked, or simply resort to attack oppositions based on party backgrounds from PAP past members and cadres, vice versa happens.
I don't see how guessing my time here has anything to do with what mockery you offer. Though I do sense a certain irrational emotion, regardless.
I am not dissuading Goh from running. It's actually quite obvious he's not what I perceived as an ideal candidate suitable for what I perceived as clean politics, as mentioned in YPforum.
You still don't get it. Goh's from WP. He brought in defamation in such survey-like topic. Which is rather politically funny to WP's Gomez who publise his thoughts on Self-Censorship (of audience to media), suggesting fear (eg) as a reason. I was 'hehehe' at his notion. Of course, common sensically, I don't have to lie in such open-ended survey-like topic. It's a fact that I am not here to condemn. How am I suppose to comment otherwise on Goh? I almost hoping Goh to go on further. But that'd certainly having the entire WP embarassed if such talks of defamation initiated by a legal-clueless goes on.
Besides, whether Goh is good as MP or not, is beneificial or cost to a government under representative election system. I am not very convinced the PAP government would do something Goh suggested.
And for your quote... There's nothing to hide. YPforum had not reply me with the password for the use of name. So don't jump guns.
Besides, indeed, to win election is to win hearts and minds of the people. But that's only as superficial as saying to cook well, you need tomato and sugar.
A true blue political figure is someone who can provide the ultimate correct path to govern; and lead by having faith longing for prosperity. Popularism, especially because of a common enemy, never last long. Even if you manage to topple PAP. Would popularism or even fanatism ensure political stability? I clearly doubt so.
Equally, you can call me a clown, but that doesn't mean anything in real. MM had been called many things under the sun. But he's still there. Many people condemn MM for even election cheat suspicions. But no one dare to contest him in general, not to say win.
A leader who focus on such support won't necessarily last. Many who find Dr Chee popular, now find Mr Chiam more attractive. Such fickle-mindedness means only a random regime, not to even say a confirmed political stability.
Before Goh really understands, and is prepared, my view on him remains.
I must repeat again. I have little intention even to dissuade opposition candidate to go on field. Currently, only Mr Chiam remains as a more worthy opposition figure of notice. It's a pity the SPP chief has not been lucky to get political talents to assist him. Anyway, if Mr Chiam plays well, he'd get to keep his constituency again.
I don't know for the MM, SM or PM and others... But I see it more beneficial to have Mr Low and Mr Chiam around in Hougang and Potong Pasir than to just eject them. Hence my best wishes for Mr Low and Mr Chiam on the coming election.
Mr Chia, I don't speak on behalf of any party. Just sharing my personal views. There is no obligation to agree with me. Maybe Gomez would like to have a word with Goh to explain his thoughts of self-censorship to him.
Regards. -
No 3. This idiot super haolian think too highly of himself and boasting abt his ideas ALWAYS think he is right. Worse than PAP. He should go elsewhere. Take his running dog Chia Ti Lik with him.Originally posted by vito_corleone:after witnessing so many posts by your dear "opposition-all-the-way" forumite, i decided to create this sorta poll. no offense to you GMS...its just to see what is everyone's opinion.
OK here it goes:
Should GMS:
1)RUN FOR PARLIAMENT?
2)BE OUR PM?
3)JUST TAKE HIS WHACKEY IDEAS ABOUT REFORM SOMEWHERE ELSE BECAUSE IT JUST DOSEN'T WORK/ALL TALK NO ACTION. -
Dear Elfred,
Happy new year to you
Before I begin, I would like my identity as a Workers' Party member be known, lest revealing it later may see accusations of non-disclosure fly However, I am not new to internet forums.
In my view, to judge if a person has leadership ability through internet communication or at the present is pretty premature. Nothing much can be determined with a few words, and even so, a person's leadership ability can improve over time.
I think Shin Leong, Meng Seng, Ti Lik, myself and a few other youths work pretty well together, so there is no question as to who's good and who's inappropriate among us.
Reading from YoungPAP's forum (though I don't post there) and in here, I sense you came with an agenda. Well, I admit the same goes for me My agenda is the urge to reply to your postings What's yours?
Whatever it is, thank you for the criticisms in areas in which they are valid. The strength and future development of a political party, whether WP or others, lies in having people who look at themselves critically. And I think Meng Seng has done so publicly on noteworthy occasions.
Many political parties are overwhelmed by people who see what they like to see and hear what they like to hear. If they are too late to save themselves, they place their organisations in a precarious situation.
Regards -
Dear SGLoyalist,Originally posted by SGLoyalist:Dear Elfred,
Happy new year to you
Before I begin, I would like my identity as a Workers' Party member be known, lest revealing it later may see accusations of non-disclosure fly However, I am not new to internet forums.
In my view, to judge if a person has leadership ability through internet communication or at the present is pretty premature. Nothing much can be determined with a few words, and even so, a person's leadership ability can improve over time.
I think Shin Leong, Meng Seng, Ti Lik, myself and a few other youths work pretty well together, so there is no question as to who's good and who's inappropriate among us.
Reading from YoungPAP's forum (though I don't post there) and in here, I sense you came with an agenda. Well, I admit the same goes for me My agenda is the urge to reply to your postings What's yours?
Whatever it is, thank you for the criticisms in areas in which they are valid. The strength and future development of a political party, whether WP or others, lies in having people who look at themselves critically. And I think Meng Seng has done so publicly on noteworthy occasions.
Many political parties are overwhelmed by people who see what they like to see and hear what they like to hear. If they are too late to save themselves, they place their organisations in a precarious situation.
Regards
I am aware of oppositions' movement in the cyberspace. In a state with such perceived status of freedom of speech, cyberspace conveniently (common sens-ically) becomes a warm bed for opposition participation.
Rest assure, your suspicion is overblown. I don't speak for any party, usually. I don't have what agenda. And I don't take it well with anyone with too heavy a stint of party politics. Which is, in addition to Goh's previous attempts on myself, why I single out Goh.
In order not to further embarass Gomez, I have quickly pointed out to Goh, and Ti Lik, certain issues of pursuing along such line of their discussions so that WP won't get stuck in their overzealous attempts.
Many people like to see and hear what they like. Which is why I rather discuss things than jumping on too much guns.
Anyway, in reality, party warfares would sort of be a norm, but there must be a certain limits maintained by someone strong enough to maintain. There is no need to just bash irrationally on anything PAP. Respect is mutual.
I am certain that many mature politicians in PAP do respect worthy opposition leaders and, in fact, members for their merits. Likewise, there are PAP leaders and members that perhaps would be respected by the opposition leaders and members. If Goh and Ti Lik would like to discuss matters, I am sure it would invite sincere comments from Singaporeans of all walk, party aside. As it concerns all Singaporeans, PAP or opposition.
For the good of our local political future, and for the good of the people as a whole, my best regards to all the stars in the future at both sides of the camps. Hopefully, we all do remember we are all Singaporeans.
On Goh MS. Don't worry about my comments on Goh. I have no agenda on crushing him or what. I am basically a very simple and easy-going element in this mess of party warfare... so can't possibly have any important agenda behind. So rest assure.
So all of you are concern about Singapore and the people... Do prove that to all of us, and work hard for the people. I trust that everyone here will contribute their fairshare alongside the incumbent's leadership. A common properous future should be everyone's objective, hence.
So I look forward the time for all parties to hold hands and walk together.
I really must return to YPforum now. And send my regards to Yaw.
Best regards. And happy New Year too.
Elfred.