Is the HDB overpriced?
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Public housing in S'pore is definitely overpriced NOW. The escalation in HDB prices came about during the 1990s when private property market boomed and the govt allowed inflation to spillover into HDB market for "More Good Years".
Buyers back then were speculating as prices were rising at double digit rates. Couples queued up for new HDB flats either for fear of prices rocketing if they wait longer, or for a way to make easy money when they can resell the flat later at higher prices, and this property craze spurred reckless demand. Since HDB can also gain from selling new flats and the 20%-25% levy on resale flats, more new flats were being built (and bigger 5-rm flats too as they can fetch higher margins and levy). Both the people and the govt gained, so everyone were happy in the belief of "More Good Years" to come.
When the property bubble burst during the Asian Crisis, the govt was stucked. Prices of new HDB flats can't be allowed to fall freely like the private housing market, because that will drive down resale HDB prices, which will reduce the paper wealth of majority Singaporeans, leading to political suicide. No choice but to let time digest all the inventory excesses and that's why u see so many unsold HDB flats - not becoz ppl dun need housing, but it's an affordability issue. What to do but to delay marriage and children until financially more able to afford that roof first.
After all the property euphoria, govt now also realise mistake but can't admit past mismanagement (due to political suicidal risk or elitist attitude?), so just have to maintain high prices with more credit controls to curb future speculation. Hence, the poor man is now struggling for a HDB flat, while the average man has to decide whether to buy a cheaper (but overpriced) HDB flat, or fork out more for a rock-bottom priced private condo in the hope of better living and asset value protection. The rich man, needless to say, is always irrelevant to this topic.
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Public housings are over supply already!Originally posted by kmkm:Public housing in S'pore is definitely overpriced NOW. The escalation in HDB prices came about during the 1990s when private property market boomed and the govt allowed inflation to spillover into HDB market for "More Good Years".
Buyers back then were speculating as prices were rising at double digit rates. Couples queued up for new HDB flats either for fear of prices rocketing if they wait longer, or for a way to make easy money when they can resell the flat later at higher prices, and this property craze spurred reckless demand. Since HDB can also gain from selling new flats and the 20%-25% levy on resale flats, more new flats were being built (and bigger 5-rm flats too as they can fetch higher margins and levy). Both the people and the govt gained, so everyone were happy in the belief of "More Good Years" to come.
When the property bubble burst during the Asian Crisis, the govt was stucked. Prices of new HDB flats can't be allowed to fall freely like the private housing market, because that will drive down resale HDB prices, which will reduce the paper wealth of majority Singaporeans, leading to political suicide. No choice but to let time digest all the inventory excesses and that's why u see so many unsold HDB flats - not becoz ppl dun need housing, but it's an affordability issue. What to do but to delay marriage and children until financially more able to afford that roof first.
After all the property euphoria, govt now also realise mistake but can't admit past mismanagement (due to political suicidal risk or elitist attitude?), so just have to maintain high prices with more credit controls to curb future speculation. Hence, the poor man is now struggling for a HDB flat, while the average man has to decide whether to buy a cheaper (but overpriced) HDB flat, or fork out more for a rock-bottom priced private condo in the hope of better living and asset value protection. The rich man, needless to say, is always irrelevant to this topic.
My sister-in- law bought her 5rm in sengKang at about S$280,000 which is nearer to MRt Station in year 1998 or 1999.
Now, the 5rms's price there had dropped to at least 15% to 20% for sengkang. Why House of Dirty Bastard revised the price downward to boost the sale of the flats?? Simply, the tender price has came down drastically also.
So, see the freaking difference of price that people got to pay compare to the earlier buyers???
The worst thing was they got foreign contractors to partcipate in tender and compete with the locals. These foreign contractors were so advance in their building construction technologies and loads of housing were built in tremendous speed and leaving behind desperate contractors fighting and suicides themselves.
Foreign contractors had in fact bitten the biggest part of the cake which the majority of public housings that they had built were way before the downturn of construction industry.
If it is not of the poor management by House of Dirty Bastard, contractors would have better chances of surviving. Thus, most people will still be in their job.
The poor management of House of Dirty Bastard had also allowed contractors with lowest bid to commence construction of projects and many were gone burst due to fierce competitions.
The most disappointed was most all the commercial buildings were built by foreign contractors. The gov was not even bothered to assist local contractors to upgrade their skills and technologies or to control the unhealthy competitions among ourselves.
Further, House of Dirty Bastard jolly well known all materials and labour rates of construction and still allowing the doomed contractors to take part. And when the construction company gone burst, many unfortunate foreign workers, suppliers and sub-contractors were left struggling with no payments. And these also attributed to lost of many jobs.
Not to long ago(maybe 7 seven years ago), the beginning of incredible fierce competitions in biding, Contractors tendered projects at below cost, becoz the boses were able to trade the manyear that were being allocated to them by the Authority. So with this loophole, the boses could grapped a huge profit from the man year that they had sold and when the company got into trouble, they just wash their backside and run away!!!
A project of 50 to 60 millions in contract sum can easily make a profits of at least S$3 to S$4 millions in cash of black money by both the contractor boses and the workers' agent. All foreigner workers had in fact got loans from loan sharks, friends or relatives to come to Sillypore to work. And all these boses and workers' agents were so inhumane to big bucks out these poor people.
The worst part was in many cases, contractors don't employ these workers but they sold the workers to somebody else. instead, most work sites were employed with certain amount of illegal workers.
In our rutally society, many construction workers were taking big risk at work to earn a living. Especially, the scaffolds erecting workers; they swinged from one scaffold to another which I had seen them in many work sites. Imagine, if you are doing it yourself and high floor???
Worst, these workers' pay was only S$20 to S$30 dollars per day! With these lower educated workers, aren't they were also contributing a big part to our economy?
In my opinion, these wokers were really been ill treated which they have to risk their lives to earn a living and making big bucks for their F**king boses to enjoy living in luxury.
As compared, the so call executives drawing big bucks and I dunno what are they doing or contributing.
So you see, are we efficient??????????????????????????????????FFFF888888888KKKKKKKKKKKKKING -
Public housings are over supply already!Originally posted by kmkm:Public housing in S'pore is definitely overpriced NOW. The escalation in HDB prices came about during the 1990s when private property market boomed and the govt allowed inflation to spillover into HDB market for "More Good Years".
Buyers back then were speculating as prices were rising at double digit rates. Couples queued up for new HDB flats either for fear of prices rocketing if they wait longer, or for a way to make easy money when they can resell the flat later at higher prices, and this property craze spurred reckless demand. Since HDB can also gain from selling new flats and the 20%-25% levy on resale flats, more new flats were being built (and bigger 5-rm flats too as they can fetch higher margins and levy). Both the people and the govt gained, so everyone were happy in the belief of "More Good Years" to come.
When the property bubble burst during the Asian Crisis, the govt was stucked. Prices of new HDB flats can't be allowed to fall freely like the private housing market, because that will drive down resale HDB prices, which will reduce the paper wealth of majority Singaporeans, leading to political suicide. No choice but to let time digest all the inventory excesses and that's why u see so many unsold HDB flats - not becoz ppl dun need housing, but it's an affordability issue. What to do but to delay marriage and children until financially more able to afford that roof first.
After all the property euphoria, govt now also realise mistake but can't admit past mismanagement (due to political suicidal risk or elitist attitude?), so just have to maintain high prices with more credit controls to curb future speculation. Hence, the poor man is now struggling for a HDB flat, while the average man has to decide whether to buy a cheaper (but overpriced) HDB flat, or fork out more for a rock-bottom priced private condo in the hope of better living and asset value protection. The rich man, needless to say, is always irrelevant to this topic.
My sister-in- law bought her 5rm in sengKang at about S$280,000 which is nearer to MRt Station in year 1998 or 1999.
Now, the 5rms's price there had dropped to at least 15% to 20% for sengkang. Why House of Dirty Bastard revised the price downward to boost the sale of the flats?? Simply, the tender price has came down drastically also.
So, see the freaking difference of price that people got to pay compare to the earlier buyers???
The worst thing was they got foreign contractors to partcipate in tender and compete with the locals. These foreign contractors were so advance in their building construction technologies and loads of housing were built in tremendous speed and leaving behind desperate contractors fighting and suicides themselves.
Foreign contractors had in fact bitten the biggest part of the cake which the majority of public housings that they had built were way before the downturn of construction industry.
If it is not of the poor management by House of Dirty Bastard, contractors would have better chances of surviving. Thus, most people will still be in their job.
The poor management of House of Dirty Bastard had also allowed contractors with lowest bid to commence construction of projects and many were gone burst due to fierce competitions.
The most disappointed was most all the commercial buildings were built by foreign contractors. The gov was not even bothered to assist local contractors to upgrade their skills and technologies or to control the unhealthy competitions among ourselves.
Further, House of Dirty Bastard jolly well known all materials and labour rates of construction and still allowing the doomed contractors to take part. And when the construction company gone burst, many unfortunate foreign workers, suppliers and sub-contractors were left struggling with no payments. And these also attributed to lost of many jobs.
Not to long ago(maybe 7 seven years ago), the beginning of incredible fierce competitions in biding, Contractors tendered projects at below cost, becoz the boses were able to trade the manyear that were being allocated to them by the Authority. So with this loophole, the boses could grapped a huge profit from the man year that they had sold and when the company got into trouble, they just wash their backside and run away!!!
A project of 50 to 60 millions in contract sum can easily make a profits of at least S$3 to S$4 millions in cash of black money by both the contractor boses and the workers' agent. All foreigner workers had in fact got loans from loan sharks, friends or relatives to come to Sillypore to work. And all these boses and workers' agents were so inhumane to big bucks out these poor people.
The worst part was in many cases, contractors don't employ these workers but they sold the workers to somebody else. instead, most work sites were employed with certain amount of illegal workers.
In our rutally society, many construction workers were taking big risk at work to earn a living. Especially, the scaffolds erecting workers; they swinged from one scaffold to another which I had seen them in many work sites. Imagine, if you are doing it yourself and high floor???
Worst, these workers' pay was only S$20 to S$30 dollars per day! With these lower educated workers, aren't they were also contributing a big part to our economy?
In my opinion, these wokers were really been ill treated which they have to risk their lives to earn a living and making big bucks for their F**king boses to enjoy living in luxury.
As compared, the so call executives drawing big bucks and I dunno what are they doing or contributing.
So you see, are we efficient??????????????????????????????????FFFF888888888KKKKKKKKKKKKKING -
By kmkm:Originally posted by yoongf:What does "freeing up property market" mean?
When the property bubble burst during the Asian Crisis, the govt was stucked. Prices of new HDB flats can't be allowed to fall freely like the private housing market, because that will drive down resale HDB prices, which will reduce the paper wealth of majority Singaporeans, leading to political suicide....
The valuation of the property are controlled to maintain an artificial price for the HDB property market. If they are allow to do the valuation fairly, then this will not happen. -
mistyblue wrote:
>you think owners who rent it to you is not going to cream you?
>I rent, and got creamed a couple of times and realise, really... the way out is , via airport.
of course, everyone will try to cream. If you got your legal and paper work
done properly, you still stand a better chance to recover some money
but tell me, what are your chances to recover your capital when creamed
by the housing board?
I'd rather be prepared to lose and go after peanuts than fight a losing battle
against a giant!
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Well, it depends on person...
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What is the significance of valuation when it comes to resale price?
If a property is valued at $100K, does that value prohibit the seller from letting it go for say.... $80K? -
Well, u cannot sell far too below the valuation and also have to write long storey to HDB.Originally posted by yoongf:What is the significance of valuation when it comes to resale price?
If a property is valued at $100K, does that value prohibit the seller from letting it go for say.... $80K? -
Selling far too low below valuation suggests evasion of stamp duty or whatever levies, and I don't think property prices drop like 20% in a year. Thus.. I don't really see the relationship between HDB valuations and resale prices.Originally posted by pearlie27:Well, u cannot sell far too below the valuation and also have to write long storey to HDB. -
If u look at HDB resale price index vs. the private residential index, HDB starts at a much lower base (~60) in 1994 but never fall back to that level even after the Asian crisis. The private market, on the contrary, has fallen back close to where it started in 1994 (~100 to 130 depending on type). This shows how HDB prices are artificially protected. -
If u look at HDB resale price index vs. the private residential index, HDB starts at a much lower base (~60) in 1994 but never fall back to that level even after the Asian crisis. The private market, on the contrary, has fallen back close to where it started in 1994 (~100 to 130 depending on type). This shows how HDB prices are artificially protected. -
Originally posted by Lowclassman:
May i know if S$110k is the cost for a 5-rm flat built between 1999 to 2002? Thanks!
What I have gather from the contractor was that their tender which includes Design, piling and to last and every things included was at average per unit [b]S$110K. (private consultants Architects, Engineer and M&E consultants included)
[/b][/b] -
No !!! The price tender price was between S$65k to S$80K per unit of 4rm and 5 rm excluding piling. (piling maybe S$5k to S$7k per unit.)Originally posted by pearlie27:May i know if S$110k is the cost for a 5-rm flat built between 1999 to 2002? Thanks! -
For HDB-Design and Built projects: -Originally posted by Lowclassman:No !!! The price tender price was between S$65k to S$80K per unit of 4rm and 5 rm excluding piling. (piling maybe S$7k to S$9k per unit.)
Contractor and whole team of Consultants did the project for 4rms to executive apartments at cost between S$85k to S$120K. From earth formation and piling and to the last, landscaping works.
One of highest tender price for design and built by ''Kajima'' japanese contractor was at Tampines (first HDB - Design and Build.)
One of the worst part was, the loophole in the contract had allowed Japanese contractor to provide 70's design fluorscent lighting tubes at common areas. -
We've always had premium airlines but now budget airlines are everywhere.
Think we should have a PHB - Public Housing Board for budget, no-frills public housing too?
I think so.
HDB can still exist - to cater to those who prefer premium public-private-like frills-full housing.
After all, how can the poorer families afford the current ridiculous one-size-fit-all
housing policy of full-of-frills AND expensive public housing without taking on expensive long-term loans?
And how much for a no-frills PHB flat? 3-rm for $30K, 5-rm for $50K perhaps? -
errrm isn't that what the HDB is supposed to be doing? IE provide subsidized hsg.
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Frills full housing = Executive Condo.
Private condo facilities on HDB land. -
Now, situation is going to be worst. Second time buyers are being forced to get loans thru' banks. Think about it, the amount of money that been paid by bank and channel into HDB will be enormous and Temasek holding bought over HDB Corp at F**king low price.Originally posted by lwflee:errrm isn't that what the HDB is supposed to be doing? IE provide subsidized hsg.
Gradually, I guessed all HDB flat buyers will have to get loans to buy. So ....who and what are we now, being as citizens of Sillypore?????
We the citizeeeeeeens of SG????? -
HDB Corp???
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I think it might be a good thing to do actually. at least it keeps the money within the country and not to some foreign country that will take advantage of our spending power.