another forums that comment on RSAF
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OK.....I agree with you.What I meant was that on a short term effect,we can trash their arm forces.But how about a long term effect?The whole population could just turn against us.When it comes to patriotism,anybody will do anything crazy just to keep the aggressor out of the land.Rebellionws,guerilla warfare,these will just spring out.It is not that I doubt the SAF's abilities,(no offense please)
it is just that when it comes to a problem in the form of 22million there is nothing we can do unless we eradicate the whole population of Malaysia.
And one more thing,if i have offended anybody for all my postings, please don't take any offense on it.I sincearly apologise.
[This message has been edited by CenturionMBT (edited 03 July 2001).] -
One more thing,besides defending the lion city, What other books or websites talks about the SAF?
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i think a little analysis here would help to reshape your view.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:OK.....I agree with you.What I meant was that on a short term effect,we can trash their arm forces.But how about a long term effect?The whole population could just turn against us.When it comes to patriotism,anybody will do anything crazy just to keep the aggressor out of the land.Rebellionws,guerilla warfare,these will just spring out.It is not that I doubt the SAF's abilities,(no offense please) it is just that when it comes to a problem in the form of 22million there is nothing we can do unless we eradicate the whole population of Malaysia.
And one more thing,if i have offended anybody for all my postings, please don't take any offense on it.I sincearly apologise.
[This message has been edited by CenturionMBT (edited 03 July 2001).]
malaysia have 22 million people. but if we minus the 'malaysian' in east malaysia, the figure straight away plunge to 12 million on peninsula malaysia. we have 4 million, the difference isnt that big. secondly, i dont think we will be occupying the whole nation and presumably, many malaysian would not want to live under SAF... so eventually we might end up with less then 6 million while the rest probably ends up in thailand or indonesia as refugees. of the 6 million left behind. i dare say 80 percent would be non malays, which have connections with singaporeans in the past as either blood relatives if not buissness associates.
the key to running a country is actually quite easy... in general.. it breaks down to 2 method... divide and rule.. or by force of arms.
But to elaborate on the methods would be immensely difficult... in fact... the methods used would be dependent on the situation and circumstances that subsequently developed after the war and cannot be planned in advance with the exception of contingency emengency plans.
It is said in the book of military strategy that one should make best use of the enemy's resources... that my friend... includes the enemy's citizens.
BUT obviously there will be hardcore patriots around. but it is better to face a hardcore enemy patriot that has lost his country then to face a horde of them who are organised, trained, equipped and sent by a fully functional country with economic and industrial backing... for this reason alone, the destruction of the enemy's political, social, economic and military structure must be complete and ruthlessly achieved without any hestitation or mercy.
in short, since we are gonna face those hang tuahs no matter wat.. its better to face an ill equipped and ill trainned hang tuah.
in fact... if SAF makes it clear that if UMNO or PAS starts a war with singapore, all members of the political party must accept the possibility that SAF would kill each and everyone of them and their immediate family. this serves as a warning to all those in the malaysian elite that to risk war with singapore, they must bet with their head and their family's too, not just the lives of innocent malaysians. this would act as another level of deterence.
leaders always goes to war with ease becuase very often, those leaders think that they will be safe, while those worthless soldier's life gets cashed out for their political points. by holding them accountable, with a credible threat, hopefully they will be more prudent the next time round. -
Of course... SAF may not only be preparing against a war against malaysia but rather a war coming from the general direction of the malaysian peninsular... remember 1942?
Should the malaysian Armed forces be defeated on their own turf by a superior foreign threat, its up to Singapore to safeguard her own security.
So why is the SAF continuing to develop and enhancing defence technology when it can already take out its regional threat easily? Official reason given : MAF is modernizing as fast as we are. My opinion is that, the SAF is modernizing not to take out the MAF but ANY potential aggressor that may not be regional. -
i share and agreed with your opinion.Originally posted by Shotgun:Of course... SAF may not only be preparing against a war against malaysia but rather a war coming from the general direction of the malaysian peninsular... remember 1942?
Should the malaysian Armed forces be defeated on their own turf by a superior foreign threat, its up to Singapore to safeguard her own security.
So why is the SAF continuing to develop and enhancing defence technology when it can already take out its regional threat easily? Official reason given : MAF is modernizing as fast as we are. My opinion is that, the SAF is modernizing not to take out the MAF but ANY potential aggressor that may not be regional.
furthermore, i think SAF shares ur opinion.
IT is stupid and self defeating when we are only arming ourself to defend against malaysia when MAF is little more then a spoilt brat in a world with real giants that can snuff MAF like an ant within a day.
The world do not revolve around malaysia even though malaysians think that they are the centre of the universe, or at least the centre of singaporeans' everyday life.
They always love to pat themselves on their back and praise their ass through the heavens' floor.
little do they know that their pathetic country is no more than a vehicle of convenience for those in UMNO and that patriotism and sense of nationalism is sounded day in day out just to divert their attention from the evils of their govt. -
Of course, why Singapore collects defense information about certain nations for analysis whether they are able to defend themselves from a foreign threat. This in turns tells SAF how safe Singapore is around them, and whether we have to worry about a threat from their direction should they be unable to defend themselves.
In otherwords, Singapore is not actually gaining information so that we can someday prepare offensive operations against those nations. But rather, aid in defense of ourselves and those nations around us. =P
I STILL wanna noe about those 70 typhoons! -
The first thing, Mindef stated that it would choose the type of plane in 2004.So the 70 EF2000 thing is probably a rumour
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But look at it from another view.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:The first thing, Mindef stated that it would choose the type of plane in 2004.So the 70 EF2000 thing is probably a rumour
2004 is about 3 years away... its fast approaching. of course RSAF might not stick to the 2004 dateline to choose if given additional options.
But using the 2004 as the final date... which planes are there out there that fits RSAF needs??
JSF in 3 years time would probably still have alot of rough edges to trim even it is put into production... i dont forsee RSAF running the risk of buying a 'half-completed' fighter, no matter how good the media try to hype it.
the Viggen had already lost even the fight has began.
The Rafale is in my view not as good as the EF2000 and on top on that, the companies producing the EF2000 promise RSAF that there will be 'significant' tech transfer to ST aero if selected.
The SU-30MK is gonna be hard to support since the russian would probably not running a production line on it unless there is a huge order for the MK, at least 500 planes to start the line.
So if RSAF stick to the 2004 dateline... logic would have the RSAF taking the typhoon above all else. furthermore, the europeans are more cooperative in transfering technology while experience with the USA on tech transfer such as the source code for the falcon computer system showed how unwilling,(though they did eventually gave it to RSAF, but by then RSAF no longer wanted it as it has chosen an isreali system) the USA is in transfering tech.
as for the figure 70... i think that was based on the estimation of the Tiger IIs that the EF2000 would be replacing.
...but that still leave a question.... the RSAF operates over 80 skyhawks... the Falcons were supposed to replace the hunters which numbered 40+ at retirement.
Although one of the skyhawk squadron is now earmarked to be converted to falcons as well, which would explain the number of falcons owned by RSAF (70+). but that still leave a big hole to fill for the remaining 40 to 50 skyhawks that is also retiring.
in short i forsee in 7 years time, the immense rise in capability, power and strength of RSAF. the skyhawks, tigers and the hunters were vintage planes, mostly second hand. it was a time when RSAF needs to be build up fast with little money... now, the evolution of the RSAF is at hand with money to spare... soon ..... -
According to www.eurofighter.com, singapore has plans for 70 Typhoons.
Check under site map, campaigns den singapore. -
Are you sure?it seems more like they are campaigning to get Singapore to buy 70 EF2000.
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Well, I wouldnt be surprised if they really do buy the EF2000s. But, I was really hoping they would have gotten the F-15Es. F-15Es rocks man. Their TEWS are so advanced that they have the ability to jam SAM radars to kingdom come. Also, they can switch from a strike role to an air-to air role easily, hell, their range is long, without tanker support... WOOO!
The Strike Eagles were actually designed to fly solo nuke missions, past enemy defense, get their bomb on target and get back. Imagine what this kinda capability will do for the RSAF. But so far, i heard no one outside the United States operated the Strike eagles. And Honestly, I really don't think Singapore needs 70 of these super eagles, 1 squadron will do fine. =PPppPPpp -
About the skyhawks, maybe i can reply your question. Of the 80+ skyhawks that we operate, only 40+ is in service now(already minus the squadron replaced by 20 F16C/D). The rest is kept in store. We really cannot operate 80+ Super Skyhawks after purchasing the F16C/D which is more expensive to maintain and operate per plane. Anyway, the issue on weather which plane the EF200 would replace, i THINK that it would probably replace both the F5S and the A4SU and the total number of EF2000 purchased would be fewer than the total number of A4SU and F5S added together. You guys get what i mean?
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Actually, i would prefer the SU30MK over the Typhoon. My dream is for a force of 30 SU30MK long-range strike aircraft, 80+F16C/D BVR interceptor/attack aircraft. That would be the most perfect of all, but i believe that there are not any country using the SU30MK other than Russia and they won't waste energy and money starting the factory for 30 SU30MK and after that, end of story. Reason why is because SU30MK is long-range, caoable of penetrating deep into enemy territories and from what i know, there's something like a small kitchen behind the cockpit and something like a toilet too! i read it from World's Aircraft.
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yah... the EF2000 is much much more expensive then the A-4, and since A-4 and F-5 are single role aircraft, a smaller number of EF2000 multi-role fighter would be enough to maintain (in fact exceed) the capabilities of RSAF.Originally posted by Patriotic Tim:About the skyhawks, maybe i can reply your question. Of the 80+ skyhawks that we operate, only 40+ is in service now(already minus the squadron replaced by 20 F16C/D). The rest is kept in store. We really cannot operate 80+ Super Skyhawks after purchasing the F16C/D which is more expensive to maintain and operate per plane. Anyway, the issue on weather which plane the EF200 would replace, i THINK that it would probably replace both the F5S and the A4SU and the total number of EF2000 purchased would be fewer than the total number of A4SU and F5S added together. You guys get what i mean?
BUT dont write the A-4s off so soon. last i check, STAero have bought the entire factory that manufacture the airframe of the A-4 in the USA..couple with the rumor that the A-4 would become RA-4SU (unmanned combat vehicle or if u like unmanned kamikaze vehicle), the RSAF might still operate the A-4 in a war to supplement the pilots.
Those A-4 dummies could actually be programed to do CAP or escort our other fighters to the front. -
*coughing non-stop*
Su-30MK has a toilet n a Kitchen?? IN the back??? *cough cough*
I seriously doubt that, i mean unless whoever who wrote that meant it to be humorous.
The Su-30MK is a strike version (Supposedly Navalized) version of the Su-27 flanker. Which is still a fighter sized aircraft. To house a mini kitchen, or maybe just a microwave would be difficult.
Or maybe the russians have finally lost their marbles and designed a flying kitchen/toilet.
The pilot n navigator sits on a kuchler zero/zero ejection toilet seat. With no pants or underwear of course. The swapped the Zhuk Radom for a brand new microwave. Their RIght MFD houses a good portion of turkey , and their center MFD a good loaf of bread. So' they'd call it the Su-30KT.
ANyway, the idea would be fun. Hehehe. I seriously support the idea for the 70 Eurofighters. And perhaps 1 operational squadron of F-15E eagles. RSAF will have enormous range with them new puppies in our inventory. -
Regarding the Su-30KT, the pilots will literally, eat and shit.
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some humor. =P
http://www.specialoperations.com/Humor/md.html -
of course it would be nice to get both the typoons and the f15s in our air force,but logistic wise,its gonna be a nightmare.that would mean that we have to train our technicians,everyone to handle 3 different types of systems,equipment etc....(dont forget our f16s)
that leads to 3 different simulators,instructors etc etc,your get the picture?i recall some article where this leading defense magazine described this particular country buying 3 types of plane to replace just one type...creating whole chain of problems,eg training,no spares etc...
thats why so many aircraft manufacturers are offering and claim that their aircraft can doing everything,multi tasks,sort of like "bao gar liao"..
anyway,i am not too worried abt exactly wat places the airforce is getting,just the fact that we already have one of the best in the region,and that our arforce ppl are not exactly dumb ppl,lets enjoy ourselves and all cheer when we get news here and there abt the type pf planes we are getting -
latest news reported tt malaysian air force are buying an unknown amount of SU-30.....I wonder y they can buy n not us???btw...it will b great if we haf all three F-16,EF2000 n F15E eagles flying in a formation..it will scare the hell out of any invaders..but if singapore decide 2 buy both the EF2000 n F15.plus upgrade the F-16s....wouldn't tt cause an uproar n maybe an arms race in the region..most probably malaysia.....when singapore announced its order of apache helicopters..the malaysian defence ministry immediately sent scouts 2 search 4 a counter attack helicopter.....in the end...singapore may even end up buying highly advanced weapons.....singapore's secrets are so highly guarded..who knows...there might even b an inter-continental ballistic missile here....or a long range missile......i hope they have..hehehe
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Please, i would love to see those dumbnos buy the SU-30.. hahahaahaaaaaaaaOriginally posted by MinisterOfDefence:latest news reported tt malaysian air force are buying an unknown amount of SU-30.....I wonder y they can buy n not us???btw...it will b great if we haf all three F-16,EF2000 n F15E eagles flying in a formation..it will scare the hell out of any invaders..but if singapore decide 2 buy both the EF2000 n F15.plus upgrade the F-16s....wouldn't tt cause an uproar n maybe an arms race in the region..most probably malaysia.....when singapore announced its order of apache helicopters..the malaysian defence ministry immediately sent scouts 2 search 4 a counter attack helicopter.....in the end...singapore may even end up buying highly advanced weapons.....singapore's secrets are so highly guarded..who knows...there might even b an inter-continental ballistic missile here....or a long range missile......i hope they have..hehehe
Attack gunships?? advance weapons?? we got the money, they wanna arm race with us...hahahahaaaaa...... good for SAF. -
IF the Russians didn't sell the Su-30s to china, what makes u think they are gonna sell'em to a Regional loudmouth like malaysia. Maybe for palm oil n coconuts again? BALLS! Those malaysians cant sit in their kampong n wait long long man. If I was those Russians, they'd be lucky i'd even sell them Su-27s.
Btw, Logistically wise, it isnt really a nitemare to operate F-15Es, Typhoons n F-16s. All 3 fighters can be armed with Standard NATO ammunition. Eg. AMRAAMs, Sidewinders. Also, we don't need that many F-15Es, just 1 or 2 operational squadrons. Put our creme de la creme in those puppies and the whoever who messes with us won't know what hit them. Larger numbers of Typhoons n F-16s are definitely a must, so we can have 2 diff kinda simulators and can complement each other's weaknesses. As for F-15Es, we can send them over to the US and make use of their facilities for training. Due to lower operational numbers, we don't need that many F-15E parts.
IF Malaysia DOES buy those Su-30s, they'd be the ones in logistic trouble. They have both NATO n WARSAW aircraft, gotta order parts here, order parts there. N i would LOVE to see them send pilots to RUssia for training.
RUSSIAN DEALER : And How would you like to pay for our Su-30s?
Dr.M : Coconuts?? (Wide smile) Palm Oil also can??
RUSSIAN DEALER : UNacceptable. However, I can arrange something, if you would...
Dr. M : What?
RUSSIAN DEALER : Bend over.
Dr. M : Oh... Okay... -
MUAHAHAAAAAAAAAA...............Originally posted by Shotgun:IF the Russians didn't sell the Su-30s to china, what makes u think they are gonna sell'em to a Regional loudmouth like malaysia. Maybe for palm oil n coconuts again? BALLS! Those malaysians cant sit in their kampong n wait long long man. If I was those Russians, they'd be lucky i'd even sell them Su-27s.
Btw, Logistically wise, it isnt really a nitemare to operate F-15Es, Typhoons n F-16s. All 3 fighters can be armed with Standard NATO ammunition. Eg. AMRAAMs, Sidewinders. Also, we don't need that many F-15Es, just 1 or 2 operational squadrons. Put our creme de la creme in those puppies and the whoever who messes with us won't know what hit them. Larger numbers of Typhoons n F-16s are definitely a must, so we can have 2 diff kinda simulators and can complement each other's weaknesses. As for F-15Es, we can send them over to the US and make use of their facilities for training. Due to lower operational numbers, we don't need that many F-15E parts.
IF Malaysia DOES buy those Su-30s, they'd be the ones in logistic trouble. They have both NATO n WARSAW aircraft, gotta order parts here, order parts there. N i would LOVE to see them send pilots to RUssia for training.
RUSSIAN DEALER : And How would you like to pay for our Su-30s?
Dr.M : Coconuts?? (Wide smile) Palm Oil also can??
RUSSIAN DEALER : UNacceptable. However, I can arrange something, if you would...
Dr. M : What?
RUSSIAN DEALER : Bend over.
Dr. M : Oh... Okay...
talk about sacrifice for the nation...hahahaaa..... -
IF the Russians didn't sell the Su-30s to china, what makes u think they are gonna sell'em to a Regional loudmouth like malaysia. Maybe for palm oil n coconuts again? BALLS! Those malaysians cant sit in their kampong n wait long long man. If I was those Russians, they'd be lucky i'd even sell them Su-27s.
I thought China has the lisence to produce 200+ SU-35?
Btw, Logistically wise, it isnt really a nitemare to operate F-15Es, Typhoons n F-16s. All 3 fighters can be armed with Standard NATO ammunition. Eg. AMRAAMs, Sidewinders. Also, we don't need that many F-15Es, just 1 or 2 operational squadrons. Put our creme de la creme in those puppies and the whoever who messes with us won't know what hit them. Larger numbers of Typhoons n F-16s are definitely a must, so we can have 2 diff kinda simulators and can complement each other's weaknesses. As for F-15Es, we can send them over to the US and make use of their facilities for training. Due to lower operational numbers, we don't need that many F-15E parts.
IF Malaysia DOES buy those Su-30s, they'd be the ones in logistic trouble. They have both NATO n WARSAW aircraft, gotta order parts here, order parts there. N i would LOVE to see them send pilots to RUssia for training.
RUSSIAN DEALER : And How would you like to pay for our Su-30s?
Dr.M : Coconuts?? (Wide smile) Palm Oil also can??
RUSSIAN DEALER : UNacceptable. However, I can arrange something, if you would...
Dr. M : What?
RUSSIAN DEALER : Bend over.
Dr. M : Oh... Okay.... -
Su-35s are navalised flankers. They take off from bird farms.
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i cant imagine a scenario where singapore's airspace will b filled with all those typhoons,f-16s n f-15s.......but can the ministry buy sometink new 4 the army? its always the air force n navy who had new advanced weapons......me..as the minister are planning 2 buy MBTs...any suggestions or objections???