another forums that comment on RSAF
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No SIR! NO OBJECTION SIR! Recommendation: SM3 Tempest 2; 120mm gun, 7.62mm co-axil MG, 12.62mm AAMG, MBT, 3 crew with auto loader. 7 rounds per min. ANY OBJECTION???? YOUR ADD-ONS PLEASEOriginally posted by MinisterOfDefence:i cant imagine a scenario where singapore's airspace will b filled with all those typhoons,f-16s n f-15s.......but can the ministry buy sometink new 4 the army? its always the air force n navy who had new advanced weapons......me..as the minister are planning 2 buy MBTs...any suggestions or objections??? -
Currently, none of the MBT's in the market are suitable for operations in our region. As for light tanks, AMX-13s are also out of the question, but i guess Singapore merely upgraded it to suit the region, as well as telling everybody that it does. So far, I feel that the AMX-10s come the closest to suitable for an urban/jungle war. Only problem is its ermm "wheels" its runs on a 6x6 rather than tracks... quite easy to damage I believe.
As for the Tempests, I still cannot grasp how they will be employed in the region. Urban/Jungle warfare relies heavily on mobility. High-mobility assets such as helicopters n IFVs are crucial. Light Tanks provide the firepower, but MBTs, i am not sure. Someone enlighten me please.
It's said that ST Tech is gonna come up with a light tank based on the Bionix chasis... how true that is, I won't know. But with most light tanks, it will probably be armed with 90mm to 105mm gun, 7.62mm coaxial, as well as another 7.62 for the TC. -
I guess the JSF is out of the question for the RSAF, esp with that stupid Stealth/phones thing. EF2000 here we come!!!!
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while much of the land in SEA is soft, there are lands which are firm(either natural or man made like roads), thus i dont think Tempest will just be sitting pretty, at least in singapore and KL... the roads should do quite OK!Originally posted by Shotgun:Currently, none of the MBT's in the market are suitable for operations in our region. As for light tanks, AMX-13s are also out of the question, but i guess Singapore merely upgraded it to suit the region, as well as telling everybody that it does. So far, I feel that the AMX-10s come the closest to suitable for an urban/jungle war. Only problem is its ermm "wheels" its runs on a 6x6 rather than tracks... quite easy to damage I believe.
As for the Tempests, I still cannot grasp how they will be employed in the region. Urban/Jungle warfare relies heavily on mobility. High-mobility assets such as helicopters n IFVs are crucial. Light Tanks provide the firepower, but MBTs, i am not sure. Someone enlighten me please.
It's said that ST Tech is gonna come up with a light tank based on the Bionix chasis... how true that is, I won't know. But with most light tanks, it will probably be armed with 90mm to 105mm gun, 7.62mm coaxial, as well as another 7.62 for the TC. -
Currently, none of the MBT's in the market are suitable for operations in our region. As for light tanks, AMX-13s are also out of the question, but i guess Singapore merely upgraded it to suit the region, as well as telling everybody that it does. So far, I feel that the AMX-10s come the closest to suitable for an urban/jungle war. Only problem is its ermm "wheels" its runs on a 6x6 rather than tracks... quite easy to damage I believe.
It is known that a light tank would be produced.It was known since 1997.However ,the bionix chasis thing may not be true.But who cares anyway,so long the tank is an improvement over the AMX13s can already.At least I know that the range of thegun is longer than the AMX13.
As for the Tempests, I still cannot grasp how they will be employed in the region. Urban/Jungle warfare relies heavily on mobility. High-mobility assets such as helicopters n IFVs are crucial. Light Tanks provide the firepower, but MBTs, i am not sure. Someone enlighten me please.
It's said that ST Tech is gonna come up with a light tank based on the Bionix chasis... how true that is, I won't know. But with most light tanks, it will probably be armed with 90mm to 105mm gun, 7.62mm coaxial, as well as another 7.62 for the TC.
About the tempest,I begin to doubt their existence.Can anybody prove me wrong?
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Originally posted by CenturionMBT:
It is known that a light tank would be produced.It was known since 1997.However ,the bionix chasis thing may not be true.But who cares anyway,so long the tank is an improvement over the AMX13s can already.At least I know that the range of thegun is longer than the AMX13.
[QUOTE]Currently, none of the MBT's in the market are suitable for operations in our region. As for light tanks, AMX-13s are also out of the question, but i guess Singapore merely upgraded it to suit the region, as well as telling everybody that it does. So far, I feel that the AMX-10s come the closest to suitable for an urban/jungle war. Only problem is its ermm "wheels" its runs on a 6x6 rather than tracks... quite easy to damage I believe.
As for the Tempests, I still cannot grasp how they will be employed in the region. Urban/Jungle warfare relies heavily on mobility. High-mobility assets such as helicopters n IFVs are crucial. Light Tanks provide the firepower, but MBTs, i am not sure. Someone enlighten me please.
It's said that ST Tech is gonna come up with a light tank based on the Bionix chasis... how true that is, I won't know. But with most light tanks, it will probably be armed with 90mm to 105mm gun, 7.62mm coaxial, as well as another 7.62 for the TC.
About the tempest,I begin to doubt their existence.Can anybody prove me wrong?[/QUOTE]
I don't think that anybody can prove you wrong. No one has seen it, unless someone can show me a picture of it, in Singapore Army one-tonne camouflage, some database. But what is written in Defending the Lion City may be true. The author is an expert and a British. Why would he need to brag for the SAF in his own book? Maybe that 80+ Tempest is real? Anyone can give me more info pls. -
Sorry!Originally posted by Shotgun:*coughing non-stop*
Su-30MK has a toilet n a Kitchen?? IN the back??? *cough cough*
I seriously doubt that, i mean unless whoever who wrote that meant it to be humorous.
The Su-30MK is a strike version (Supposedly Navalized) version of the Su-27 flanker. Which is still a fighter sized aircraft. To house a mini kitchen, or maybe just a microwave would be difficult.
Or maybe the russians have finally lost their marbles and designed a flying kitchen/toilet.
The pilot n navigator sits on a kuchler zero/zero ejection toilet seat. With no pants or underwear of course. The swapped the Zhuk Radom for a brand new microwave. Their RIght MFD houses a good portion of turkey , and their center MFD a good loaf of bread. So' they'd call it the Su-30KT.
ANyway, the idea would be fun. Hehehe. I seriously support the idea for the 70 Eurofighters. And perhaps 1 operational squadron of F-15E eagles. RSAF will have enormous range with them new puppies in our inventory.
I did not type exactly what i mean. Its the SU34, long range bomber, there is a chemical toilet and a small food heater at the back. If you take a look at it from the side, the Aircraft is fucking big. Behind the side-by-side pilot seat cockpit is a large space. By the way, is it true that the Sukhoi fighters (SU27 and newer versions) is able to launch missiles that can engage enemy at its six?????? Notice the large sting behind Sukhoi fighters and report says that it acts like an ECM and a back radar that can lock on to targets behind. Thats cool! -
Sorry!Originally posted by Shotgun:*coughing non-stop*
Su-30MK has a toilet n a Kitchen?? IN the back??? *cough cough*
I seriously doubt that, i mean unless whoever who wrote that meant it to be humorous.
The Su-30MK is a strike version (Supposedly Navalized) version of the Su-27 flanker. Which is still a fighter sized aircraft. To house a mini kitchen, or maybe just a microwave would be difficult.
Or maybe the russians have finally lost their marbles and designed a flying kitchen/toilet.
The pilot n navigator sits on a kuchler zero/zero ejection toilet seat. With no pants or underwear of course. The swapped the Zhuk Radom for a brand new microwave. Their RIght MFD houses a good portion of turkey , and their center MFD a good loaf of bread. So' they'd call it the Su-30KT.
ANyway, the idea would be fun. Hehehe. I seriously support the idea for the 70 Eurofighters. And perhaps 1 operational squadron of F-15E eagles. RSAF will have enormous range with them new puppies in our inventory. I did not type exactly what i mean. Its the SU34, long range bomber, there is a chemical toilet and a small food heater at the back. If you take a look at it from the side, the Aircraft is fucking big. Behind the side-by-side pilot seat cockpit is a large space. By the way, is it true that the Sukhoi fighters (SU27 and newer versions) is able to launch missiles that can engage enemy at its six?????? Notice the large sting behind Sukhoi fighters and report says that it acts like an ECM and a back radar that can lock on to targets behind. Thats cool! BTW, i forget wher ei see this reply from. The F/A18E/F and F/A 18C/D is able to carry LANTIRN pods. Being used for night attack in the Gulf War. -
i had a talk wif the deputy minister,permanent secretary n defence counsels......we decide that the German Leopard is quite suitable 4 our region....the tactics are simple....light tanks n IFVs,AFVs will charge in.....while the MBTs will act as rearguard,,,,,any ADD-ONS?
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Leopard 2 as rear guard... err... kinda wasted right?
The Su-34 Platypus, is still based on a Flanker design tho its a side by side cockpit. Basically, its a long range attacker, but i still doubt the kitchen and toilet part.
As for the back firing missiles, the russians have been tooling around with it for quite some time. They removed the countermeasures pod and replaced it with a rear facing radar. They also mounted a reverse facing R-27 ARH Missile. Technically it can fire backwards... but they still have problems with the velocity issues... cos if the plane is moving forward, the missile is gonna fly backwards... its gonna need a lot more propulsion to do so.
Btw, The russians got the idea of the Su-34 from the American F-15Es. F-15Es fly long ranged penetration and can drop "big ones" in enemy territory, and get out. Its packed with an advanced TEWS thats incorporated in its jamming suite. OF course, the Russian copy probably wont be as good as the American one simply becos the Russians are still a decade back in avionics technology.
I'd laugh to death if Malaysia bought Su-34s then realising its a side by side cockpit arrangement. God noes what 2 RMAF pilots would do inside, probably kiss kiss and hold hands in their stupid love boat all the way. -
The French Leclerch is a better option. Leopard 2 can be considered too. Most importantly, we need a tank, MBT or light tank with an auto-loader. Agree??!!! Its obvious wad! I got a new proposal. Since we have the 21st Division (RDF), we should expand our rapid deployment force, with light tanks and Terrex AIFV forming the armoured force in 10 LST, 20 apaches aupporting RDF armour force, 30 LWSPH supporting RDF troopers and each trooper is an elite, with GUards units all transfered to RDF. comprising 15, 000 RDF troopers, 200 AFV, 20 Apaches, 30 155mm LWSPH and logistic vehicles. agree. With a elite RDF, malaySAI should keep their mouth shut.HAHahahaha.Originally posted by MinisterOfDefence:i had a talk wif the deputy minister,permanent secretary n defence counsels......we decide that the German Leopard is quite suitable 4 our region....the tactics are simple....light tanks n IFVs,AFVs will charge in.....while the MBTs will act as rearguard,,,,,any ADD-ONS? -
for ur RDF to work.... we will need a huge Airforce with a huge airlift capability or a huge navy with a huge sealift capability.Originally posted by Patriotic Tim:The French Leclerch is a better option. Leopard 2 can be considered too. Most importantly, we need a tank, MBT or light tank with an auto-loader. Agree??!!! Its obvious wad! I got a new proposal. Since we have the 21st Division (RDF), we should expand our rapid deployment force, with light tanks and Terrex AIFV forming the armoured force in 10 LST, 20 apaches aupporting RDF armour force, 30 LWSPH supporting RDF troopers and each trooper is an elite, with GUards units all transfered to RDF. comprising 15, 000 RDF troopers, 200 AFV, 20 Apaches, 30 155mm LWSPH and logistic vehicles. agree. With a elite RDF, malaySAI should keep their mouth shut.HAHahahaha.
moving 15,000 men and machine and keeping the supplys and reinforcement line open.... will be a huge drain on the armed forces.
in the end, when the RDF is on the ground.. its little more then an elite ground division.
the idea of a RDF is to get to a trouble spot fast and wait for reinforcement. and it seems a stupid idea to me since, unless u have air superiority.... ur RDF is gonna be grounded. -
Our Apaches are gonna be under the AirForces Command right? And the RDF under Army's command. I feel we should move the command of the Apaches to the Army. In the US, the Apache are used as a Calvary force, a concept similar to an RDF. The calvary covers more ground to engage an enemy that is not anticipated in that direction, or leads a fast assault.
Of course, an RDF like what Tripwire stated, needs air superiority, cos we would want to be able to resupply, or perhaps evac that force. However, with Singapore's concept of warfare, its not likely that will happen. Rather, the RDF will Drop in, or amphibiously assault in, take out enemy within their given operations zone and area. After that, they would wait for the Armored spear Together with mechanize infantry to fight through the "cut-off" troops. And we will have our reinforced line. -
the 3 service of SAF is as one unified command, it doesnt matter whether the apache is under RSAF or Army, because eventually they are under one unified command structure that seeks to maximise the benefits of an equipment to the best possible use.Originally posted by Shotgun:Our Apaches are gonna be under the AirForces Command right? And the RDF under Army's command. I feel we should move the command of the Apaches to the Army. In the US, the Apache are used as a Calvary force, a concept similar to an RDF. The calvary covers more ground to engage an enemy that is not anticipated in that direction, or leads a fast assault.
Of course, an RDF like what Tripwire stated, needs air superiority, cos we would want to be able to resupply, or perhaps evac that force. However, with Singapore's concept of warfare, its not likely that will happen. Rather, the RDF will Drop in, or amphibiously assault in, take out enemy within their given operations zone and area. After that, they would wait for the Armored spear Together with mechanize infantry to fight through the "cut-off" troops. And we will have our reinforced line.
as for your strategy on flanking and then moving the forces up to link up with the insertion force. its nothing new and have been practiced before in war and peace time training, the problem is.. such a move soaks up alot of airlift and sealift resouces... and there is a danger of the forces unable to link up, then the insertion force could be in peril. the flanking move is not without its risk, the use of such a move requires detail planning, intelligience and ground preparation. -
Yes true, but War involves risks and gambles. No matter how we calculate, and no matter how we plan, no matter how much intelligence we gather, something, somewhere, might always go wrong. Murphy's rule of combat... you can never expect the unexpected.
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you can never expect the unexpected, if the unexpected can be expected, then it is no longer call unexpected.Originally posted by Shotgun:Yes true, but War involves risks and gambles. No matter how we calculate, and no matter how we plan, no matter how much intelligence we gather, something, somewhere, might always go wrong. Murphy's rule of combat... you can never expect the unexpected.
the above is not murphy's law.. its call common sense.
and no doubt things will go wrong... but we try to keep the things from going wrong and when it does go wrong.... switch to plan B. -
Okay, I'll give u a real murphy's law of combat.
A plan never survives the first 30 secs of combat. -
ok... most plan last more then 30 seconds...Originally posted by Shotgun:Okay, I'll give u a real murphy's law of combat.
A plan never survives the first 30 secs of combat.
so u can throw murphy's law out the window.
the only plan that fail to last more then 30 seconds are FIXED unflexible plans.
Real war plans change and adapts to the change in the situation, like the SAF commercial.... move and act like the flow of water, like plan B i stated in my last post.
Erwin rommel of the german army in WWII was praised for his ability to turn a disaster into a victory, not because he fixed his plan, but his constant move to change and adapt to his enemy's plan. -
Yeah, which is why i said "A" plan.
After 30 secs, when the plan is screwin up, switch to alternate. -
Em.... Air Superiority is easy for our Air Force. I mean that the RDF would be formed after the RSAF received all its CH47D Chinooks and additional CH47SD later and also after the army receive the LWSPH and Terrex AIFV. By the time, a RDF is possible with C130 and CH47SD supporting the RDF.Originally posted by tripwire:for ur RDF to work.... we will need a huge Airforce with a huge airlift capability or a huge navy with a huge sealift capability.
moving 15,000 men and machine and keeping the supplys and reinforcement line open.... will be a huge drain on the armed forces.
in the end, when the RDF is on the ground.. its little more then an elite ground division.
the idea of a RDF is to get to a trouble spot fast and wait for reinforcement. and it seems a stupid idea to me since, unless u have air superiority.... ur RDF is gonna be grounded.
I have a few question, is the water pumping station in Malaysia near the coast?
Is the information that Butterworth air base is protected by SADA SAMs????? If its true, won't all the SAMs be destroyed when war starts?
I also have a new book to introduce. Total War 2006 by Simon Pearson. It tells a story with real time information when world war 3 starts, sadly, never talked about SEA. -
There is no certainty in war.
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n not forgetting the apache attack helicopters..but a recent news i read said tt singapore's second order of 12 apaches will not b equip wif the highly sophisticated longbow detection or wat system lar.....doesn't tt reduce our capabilities..but the only valid reason 4 malaysia 2 start an arms race 4 the air force is if singapore manage 2 buy comanches..n tt is a big IF.but i heard is exclusive 4 the US...i wonder when singapore technologies n defence scientist will concentrate on our own developments of steakth n strenghs capabilities...any ideas??
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"SAF" is Singapore Armed Forces.
"SAF" is not Singapore Assault Force
We dun need super stealth tech, we dun need mammoth tanks, godamm stealth attack copters or super strike jets, we dun need a-carriers. We only need a force capable of defending ourselves.
[This message has been edited by Silenthunter (edited 24 July 2001).] -
u noe wat they sae when the british were still ruling singapore.????we dun need tanks,we dun need modern hurricanes airplanes,we dun need battleships,we dun need armour piercing ammunitions......den the japanese invaded.no tanks 2 counter the japanese tanks,no planes 2 counter japs zero fighters,no ships 2 stop japs landing fleet,n no ammo 2 destroy japs tanks.u get it silenthunter...mayb we should call the 1st stealth frigate RSS Silenthunter...any objections??Originally posted by Silenthunter:"SAF" is Singapore Armed Forces.
"SAF" is not Singapore Assault Force
We dun need super stealth tech, we dun need mammoth tanks, godamm stealth attack copters or super strike jets, we dun need a-carriers. We only need a force capable of defending ourselves.
[This message has been edited by Silenthunter (edited 24 July 2001).] -
Good arguement! If we don't prepare advanced equipment, we may not be able to fight a superior foreign invasion force.Originally posted by MinisterOfDefence:u noe wat they sae when the british were still ruling singapore.????we dun need tanks,we dun need modern hurricanes airplanes,we dun need battleships,we dun need armour piercing ammunitions......den the japanese invaded.no tanks 2 counter the japanese tanks,no planes 2 counter japs zero fighters,no ships 2 stop japs landing fleet,n no ammo 2 destroy japs tanks.u get it silenthunter...mayb we should call the 1st stealth frigate RSS Silenthunter...any objections??
However, Carriers are still out of the question, cost of maintenance and defending it alone will kill. Imagine the amount of defense spending that could have gone to the developement of other modern weapons, thats ill spent on a carrier we don't need.
As for the LongBow radar, its still in negotiations from what i heard. Basically, what the longbow radar does is, detection and acquiring targets over obstacles such as hills. Its mounted on top the rotors so it can peer above obstacles like periscopes over water.