Water dispute can lead to war: Ex-general
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http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,1870,100906,00.html?
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People, I don't get this... why's Malaysia's problem? Why are they taking a swipe @ Singapore over the water issues. Why make it such BIG issue. Why build a mountain over a molehill?
They are even beating the war drums, trying to psych Singapore Govt to say something stupid or what? Do they really want war? Why ex-Gerenal has to write something like that? Even if he think his views are correct, what he said should only be circulated among the govt members and not general public.
Maybe they do secretly want a fight..... -
Simple. The reason why they behave like this is 2-prong, as it usually is when we have a dispute with them:Originally posted by Joe Black:http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,1870,100906,00.html?
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People, I don't get this... why's Malaysia's problem? Why are they taking a swipe @ Singapore over the water issues. Why make it such BIG issue. Why build a mountain over a molehill?
They are even beating the war drums, trying to psych Singapore Govt to say something stupid or what? Do they really want war? Why ex-Gerenal has to write something like that? Even if he think his views are correct, what he said should only be circulated among the govt members and not general public.
Maybe they do secretly want a fight.....
1) There is increasing social problems over there. Indons running riot, a restless Muslim/Malay populace, a stuttering economy have contributed to a constantly weakening government hold on power. Mahathirs speech at the WEF yesterday(Sun 03/02) points to that. In this situation they need to create a distraction so the prople will not notice or concentrate on the incompetence of those in charge, and as history has shown, the best way to do this is through a bogeyman: preferably foreign. We play that role to the hilt; we're better off, we're of a different race by majority, and we have a minority thats of the same race/religion as their majority. We're, in a nutshell, the perfect bogeyman.
2) They've never really accepted the fact that not only are we more successful, what really really yanks their chain is that our Malay countrymen, despite not having an unfair advantage like theirs and play on a level playing field, are still arguably more successful than theirs. Thats why they have always jumped on an opportunity to paint Malay Singaporeans as an oppressed, unfairly treated minority. Just look at the tudung issue, I've seen sharks react more slowly to blood in the water than the Malaysian politicians have to this issue.
What it all boils down to is that this is all bluster. As for the H2O issue, deep down, they're getting desparate because they know that our dependence on Malaysia on this issue is almost over. Once our desalination plants are ready, gone will be any chance to gain political and economic mileage(read: $$$) from us, so they're now trying to gain as much as they can.
Its nothing we have not seen before, and nothing we won't see again. As the Chinese say, just treat them like the barking mad dogs they are.
[This message has been edited by Viper52 (edited 04 February 2002).] -
another good example of an idiot trying to act smart...Originally posted by Joe Black:http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,1870,100906,00.html?
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People, I don't get this... why's Malaysia's problem? Why are they taking a swipe @ Singapore over the water issues. Why make it such BIG issue. Why build a mountain over a molehill?
They are even beating the war drums, trying to psych Singapore Govt to say something stupid or what? Do they really want war? Why ex-Gerenal has to write something like that? Even if he think his views are correct, what he said should only be circulated among the govt members and not general public.
Maybe they do secretly want a fight.....
why would singapore go to war over water in the 21st century????!!!
this general is truely old fashion in his mindset...
IF malaysia dont sell us water..... wont it be far cheaper and reasonable for singapore govt to build desalination plant then going to war!!!??
I mean... a few desalination plant though not cheap... it is still by far... alot lot cheaper and politically far far acceptable then going to war right???
Why does malaysia makes singapore look so bad... as if.. if malaysia no sell it to us cheap cheap... we will send SAF in to takeover??? where got such stupidity one????
this general IQ must be damn damn low.....
maybe that is how malaysian PMs keep the MAF under their thumbs... by putting morons as generals.... definitely... these 'generals' wont rebel... -
As long as they don't turn rabid and start biting.... let them bark all they want...
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Precisely, as long as they remain all bark and no bite, and since we all know that they are just hamming it up for home consumption, let them be...Originally posted by YourFather:As long as they don't turn rabid and start biting.... let them bark all they want... -
The general, whoever he is, just forgot to do simple mathematics. Either that, he has been reading too many war scenarios where Singapore would go on an all out rampage to secure water. Too much command and conquer i guess.
I zergling rush him then he noe man. Haha. -
One word: GENERAL ELECTION
The Msian Gov are going to have election next year and now is the time to built up that "patriotic" mood and forget about they countries own internal problems. It's the same old strategy they've been using for the past decade.
All about politics. Maybe Dr.M even "pakat" with PAP to let him "bash S'pore for some votes" in return for other stuff that we dunno. :p What I'm trying to say that it's all politics!! -
Singapore will always honour those legal Contracts signed with Malaysia, but Malaysia always quick to change its mind on all other documents signed and treats them like 'toilet paper'! That 3-sen-for-a-thousand-gallons was inked in the contract how many donkey years back and they want to alter the contents of those contracts by asking for higher price! The world is laughing at them! If the rule of law does'nt work, only military might can solve the problem!
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Military might? For what? I don't see why we, or malaysia would resort to military means to solve the problems. Like what Tripwire said, war ain't cheap.
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Yeah...and don't forget Heartlander, if we really go to war your boy-boy will be in the frontlines, and if hes captured I think the Malaysians might just do more than kick his face like his BMT instructor. Will you then complain again at sgforums?Originally posted by Shotgun:Military might? For what? I don't see why we, or malaysia would resort to military means to solve the problems. Like what Tripwire said, war ain't cheap.
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Tell ya what, why don't we create an online discussion network for the Malaysians. Call it MYforums or something.
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I was watching this documentary made by BBC about Future Warriors. They did make it a good point about war being costly. They also had this segment about today's army is asked to do peacekeeping jobs. The rules of engagement in peacekeeping duties are different from that of a war time. The documentary questioned that are we moulding our soldiers to be "softies" and render them incapable of future wars where the enemies may not adhere to human rights like the wests or developed nations.
I wonder if SAF soldiers have the guts to stand up to a real fight if things get really hot?
The documentary showed that even the West Point has changed so much to produce future officers like Uni grads. West Point has become more like a Uni campus than a military school.... -
Maybe its becos future wars is more dependent on technology then muscle strength... one technocrat with a PC in front of him is more dangerous then a thoudsand man wielding knifes and rifles...Originally posted by Joe Black:I was watching this documentary made by BBC about Future Warriors. They did make it a good point about war being costly. They also had this segment about today's army is asked to do peacekeeping jobs. The rules of engagement in peacekeeping duties are different from that of a war time. The documentary questioned that are we moulding our soldiers to be "softies" and render them incapable of future wars where the enemies may not adhere to human rights like the wests or developed nations.
I wonder if SAF soldiers have the guts to stand up to a real fight if things get really hot?
The documentary showed that even the West Point has changed so much to produce future officers like Uni grads. West Point has become more like a Uni campus than a military school....
It certainly gives a new meaning to the sentence...'the pen is mightier then the sword' or in this case 'the keyboard is more devastating than a rifle!!'
I read in popular mechanics that in future... american troops will get exo skeleton suit that will allow them to jump off flying planes without parachutes, puch through a concrete wall with their bare fist, jump over a tall building in a single leap..... (reminds you of superman doesnt it???) see through walls and buildings, or even turn the trooper invisible!!! (wow!! talk about hiding in the ladies bathroom!!) AND even fly!! plus others....
already some of these ideas are manifesting in some of the US DoD and US university laboratory.... if that ever become a reality.... GOD help those poor Al-Qaedas.... -
Mmmhmmm, and dont forget those MAVs as well. One day we will see insect-sized MAVs which leverage on nano-technology to search out their victims in hoards, and perhaps injecting them with lethal poison. They will use 'swarm intelligence' (which is under research, to see how bees and ants can interact such that the whole colony is like one entity) and be highly automated, not needing direct input once instructions are given.
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You refering to the DARPA EHPA programme?
Its pretty advanced stuff compared to the local scorpion armor thing. -
I did read about the US is looking at creating UAVs of the size of flying insects. However, with all these technologies, you will still need foot soldiers to conquer places. Put your country flag up. History tells us that the Iraqis and the Serbs were just as defiance as ever for as much punishment they could take from the bombing campaigns. Like Gen Schwarzkopf also acknowledge that you cannot win a war from the air. You need your foot soldiers to do the mockup.
All these technologies can help to win wars but wouldn't win battles. I am worried that SAF become too reliant on technology that the average soldiers have no stomach to fight the enemies. They might not be willingly to take risk when things get a little too hot or go kuku when they see the sight of dead or chared bodies.... -
I think all countries whether singapore or malaysia included all face the same problemOriginally posted by Joe Black:I did read about the US is looking at creating UAVs of the size of flying insects. However, with all these technologies, you will still need foot soldiers to conquer places. Put your country flag up. History tells us that the Iraqis and the Serbs were just as defiance as ever for as much punishment they could take from the bombing campaigns. Like Gen Schwarzkopf also acknowledge that you cannot win a war from the air. You need your foot soldiers to do the mockup.
All these technologies can help to win wars but wouldn't win battles. I am worried that SAF become too reliant on technology that the average soldiers have no stomach to fight the enemies. They might not be willingly to take risk when things get a little too hot or go kuku when they see the sight of dead or chared bodies....
as technology advances... it will be foolhardly not to be on the edge of it.
brainless Courage dont win war... technology does... in time to come... when AI becomes even more advance... war might be fought through a computer monitor... -
I agree that we must not be too obsessed with technology. Technology is a force multiplier and enabler, but it is NOT the force.(Jeez, I'm starting to sound like a Star Wars fan) As John Boyd states, "People, Ideas, and Technology, in that order!" It would be a terrible mistake to think that having technology on our side would definitely win wars. Its the same fallacy as "High IQ means you will earn a lot of money", which is definitely not always true, yes? What's more improtant is that we have capable people in command, with good ideas. In this sense, though, I'm not too worried, cause I believe that we do have pretty capable people up there.
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Come to think of it, where are we gonna get manpower in the future? We have an ageing population, and a young generation hooked on contraceptives.
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But Singapore is building a net surplus immigration policies. You will have more PRC people migrating to Singapore, a few Indians and some Westerners would love the tropical weather.Originally posted by Shotgun:Come to think of it, where are we gonna get manpower in the future? We have an ageing population, and a young generation hooked on contraceptives. -
Gawd knows what the westerners will do in the warm weather. I guess you guys should get ready for an angmoh son in law. =)
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Singapore would never let malaysia to make use the water agreement to bargain with us over other issues.
news of malaysia insisting to raise the water prices or else they will stop supplying water to us in the future, will sooner or later, be not much harm to us.
we will do whatever it is necessary to secure our stability of our nation.
"To do whatever is necessary" is up to u to analysis. -
we let USA park boat at beach. we have BIG backup.
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Frankly...wat can u expect from a country who still wears sarongs and tudongs...
muslim countries are often well known for their troublesome politics...poor education...bad sanitation...terrorist breeding policies...anti woman laws (4 muslim men must be a witness for a woman who gets raped)...
i mean...why even bother to discuss about them? we spend 1 billion odd singapore dollars on defence every year...recently when they did a one time spending of 1.4 billion RINGGIT already their parliment got a headache...dont know how to pay that debt off...so dont fret fellow singaporeans...we are in safe hands.