Home > Speaker's Corner

5% GST

Kyo23
22 Apr 02, 01:44

Originally posted by Shotgun:
Kyo23, ur Company's Malaysian PR is a MANAGER. Hence 6k pay is quite logical. Are u a manager? As I have explained before, to survive in Singapore, u need EDUCATION, and proof of it. If some Malaysian or any foreigner comes to work in Singapore, they probably have pretty good educational backing. Unless you have the same educational backing, why compare? Do remember, guys who have completed NS also gets a better pay.
I think you fail to understand what i'm trying to get at by using the IT manager as an example. The key point is not in the comparison of pay but with such a pay and the current upcoming GST hike and income tax reduction. Who do you think will gain? Yup, sure these PRs who came to singapore to work had pretty good background, a plain UK degree as compared to my lousy honour degree in singapore. And you know what? He had to consult me on every technical issue including how to install window 2000 on his laptop. Actually that's not the important point but the income tax reduction will really make a great gaps between the rich and the poor. Should the exemption from NS for those boss esp MPs earning lots of money be abolished after the income tax reduction to make it fair? Can you ensure they will spent in singapore under the GST system to render more revenue to the nation?

If you find that its too tough gettin a job in Singapore, then take whatever you have, and find jobs overseas. Work there, Migrate there if u want to. I promise I won't miss you.
Did i say it's tough for me to get a job in singapore? I'm worrying for the future generation of singapore esp my kids if i bother to have any in particularly son. And sorry, the baby bonus is a joke. Guess baby girl will have more benefit in singapore i guess. Do you think there's future for those local students esp guy just out from NS amid all the younger PRs who came in easily under the government policies?

And finally, is there a need for you to miss me? Are you gay or what? Sorry i'm married. so shoo. Don shotgun on me.
Shotgun
23 Apr 02, 02:25

Aww come on, no doubt it will be tough for ur next generation. Every generation is like that. Required education standards get higher and higher. If I were you, my main concern won't be trying to change policies to make sure my children survive, but to equip them well enough to survive.

As stated, whether 2.5 years is a waste of time or not, DOESNT matter. Whether PRs are becoming too competitve or not, DOESNT matter. As far as any Singaporean male is concerned, 2.5 years is obligatory, if not voluntarily.
tripwire
23 Apr 02, 09:39

Originally posted by Kyo23:
Who's the mother fucker to let in these foreigner and then issuing free blue IC to them without 2.5 years commitment to be wasted? So who's speaking from the bottom of the well when you have any dealing with lots of foreign talent? Now even those IA students attached are no longer local faces. what do you expect, for the employer to recruit only local?
Use your head.... the problem is not granting PR... if the govt refuse to permit foreign workers which the company want to employ from coming in... wat is going to prevent the companies from moving out of singapore??? YOU?

The bottom line is still your boss... your boss perception and impression.... he is the one paying the money.... as it goes... MONEY TALKS!
tripwire
23 Apr 02, 09:46

Originally posted by Kyo23:
Yup, i agree with that. However, I believe they should spare some thought for the local. Life is so hard already with extra burden as a local and yet they want to suck on further thru GST from the poor while the rich esp MPs and the foreigner live off happily with less income tax and no commitment. I would think less corporate tax is enuff for lure back all the big fish and better management of national reserve instead of squandering it e.g building more SAF club house and golf club for defence purpose.

dont be a cuckoo lah... if all foreigners wanting PR must serve NS... how many will pick up that PR status???

And if i am correct... once you serve NS.. you become citizen...not PR!

and even if there were many who still want to join the PR rank.... you have to consider the security, economic and political dimension.....

Having so many first gen PR serving NS... is going to result in breach of security as enemy could send spies into singapore and join NS... as sleepers... informers... hell... we might as well hand over SAF.

Economically... they will drain the national resouces... instead of contributing to the national wealth... immediately.

Politically... in view of the above two... such a policy is national suicide.

WAT YOU really want is some form of protectionism... to protect your ricebowl... you want a screen of some sort that will give you the additional advantage whereby... you will stand foremost in any position.
tripwire
23 Apr 02, 10:12

Originally posted by Kyo23:
Did i say it's tough for me to get a job in singapore? I'm worrying for the future generation of singapore esp my kids if i bother to have any in particularly son. And sorry, the baby bonus is a joke. Guess baby girl will have more benefit in singapore i guess. Do you think there's future for those local students esp guy just out from NS amid all the younger PRs who came in easily under the government policies?

And finally, is there a need for you to miss me? Are you gay or what? Sorry i'm married. so shoo. Don shotgun on me.
i think you brought up some good points... but some not so good ones as well...

with respect to foreign talent with foreign degrees.. but yet does not seem to be even up to standard with local grad... the problem lies in lack in standard bench marking... very often... a foreign degree is 'believed' to be 'better' then local degree.. honors or not. this kind of skewed impression gives rise to unequal rewards. a serious case of imperfect information. to be frank... it will be impossible to resolve this qualification thing.... because its a matter of individual perception... or views.. skewed or otherwise... of the employer.

as for the reduction of income tax... resulting in widening gap of the rich and poor... one need to see the different side of the coin...

first... no govt can dictate how we spend our money... either locally or in foreign land (look at the causeway)... be you rich or poor... unless the govt seal the border and impose a regulation to prevent oversea visit. or impose a monetary control like malaysia.

having said that... its not possible for the govt to be sure that the richer people will spend more locally and contribute to the GST.... this amount of revenue is not determined by the GST, which even if it raise to 10%, it would constitute only 10% of the overall total price of the product... as such.. the other 90% of the price would be the more (but not under govt control) critical factor in deciding whether locals will purchase in country or offshore.

BUT... if the govt... continue to have higher tax rates locally when compared to foreign lands.... which rich folks you know are so stupid as to continue to park their income gains in singapore?? when they can park their money oversea and enjoy lower income taxes?

SO... in the case of GST from the rich... its a wash out gone case.... but if the income tax remains high... then singapore will loose even more tax revenue as the rich move their money out of singapore..... to be park in lands of lower taxes like hongkong.

Furthermore... the moving out of funds from the local economy will contribute to increase in prime rates... bad for you who are buying a house and car using loans from either HDB or any of the financial instituition... it will also hurts those of you who have credit cards and love to use overdraft....

Wat is worst is that... with the increase in prime rates... investment in singapore becomes very expensive.... economy will falter as people spends less... lowering demand... leading to more unemployment... so as can be seen.... there are a whole range of economical impact in such a decision... its not so simple as lowering income tax... means widening income gap.... the govt got tons of things to consider....

SO... like i said in all my previous post... dont jump the gun so soon... and try to look beyond your nose..... honor or no honor degree.... its your brain that counts.... not the paper.
Kyo23
25 Apr 02, 01:45

Originally posted by tripwire:
Use your head.... the problem is not granting PR... if the govt refuse to permit foreign workers which the company want to employ from coming in... wat is going to prevent the companies from moving out of singapore??? YOU?

The bottom line is still your boss... your boss perception and impression.... he is the one paying the money.... as it goes... MONEY TALKS!

Sorry, if the boss really want foreign talent more than local one, the government can always issue work permit for them instead of PR status letting having too much priviledges if you don know that. The bottomline is still the government who wanted to make life easy for those foreign worker thinking that they will stay in singapore for long and become citizen. Wait long long i guess.
Kyo23
25 Apr 02, 01:51

Originally posted by tripwire:
WAT YOU really want is some form of protectionism... to protect your ricebowl... you want a screen of some sort that will give you the additional advantage whereby... you will stand foremost in any position.
I agree with that, but are we having it? Since no, why grant PR and make thing unfair? In SAF, not all jobs will lead to breaches of security can be taken up by these PR to force them to convert to citizen at least. Maybe they can even fill up the jobs at SAFRA club house, golf field to serve those officer pig cheaply instead of wasting tonnes of money to maintain it and hence having excuses to raise GST further.

[This message has been edited by Kyo23 (edited 25 April 2002).]
CX
25 Apr 02, 13:17

I think talking bitter and talking angry's not gonna change a thing about PRs, GST or anything else for that matter...

I believe that we need these things. Whats the point of being xenophobic? Yah Yah, i know it sux to have an outsider earn more than u and lording it over u when it could very well have been a local or better yet, yourself lording over other people but thats not the point...

Companies *need* to make sure that their foreign managers/executives working here get PRs 'cos its a long term arrangement. Its a hassle to renew the work permit every once in awhile. and if they had to do that, they'll go somewhere else where the immigration arrangements are more flexible: ie. up north, where Mahathir "promised" to make things as painless as possible for MNCs to base there...

And as much as I know that not all comparisons are valid, they do help make a point sometimes. As already mentioned, Australia charges 10% consumption tax to pay for things which can hardly be justified! Hell, they even ran out of money to buy office supplies for their armed forces recently!

Yes, things are gonna cost more, but be fair in your assessment: Did you really give a shit when u paid 3%? Did you even look at the bill and yell "WHAT! 3% GST!" every time u paid for something? Frankly, when i do eat out, its the 10% service charge that bothers me, not the 3% GST so grow up...

And if u don't like to pay a consumption tax, where would u rather we got the money to run the country? An increase in income tax including a provision to tax low income earners? Thats not equitable, much worse and really stupid! At least in consumtion taxes, one can actually control how much one pays buy consuming less. I hit a bad patch recently and I myself was surprised to realise how much u can save by putting your mind to it, exercising more prudence and making smart choices.

And people did not go to JB to shop to save money! They do it to satisfy that craving for perceived savings... Think: u drive in with 3/4 tank, u spend RM300+ on grocery shopping, eating for the whole family of say, 4.. u top up your vehicle to full tank before returning and u would've spent close to SG150-200... for a saving of how much? as if u can't grocery shop here with $150... U actually end up buying more crap there 'cos its "cheaper"...

Don't like PRs? Lucky u don't live in the EU... they can now work anywhere in the EU, regardless of their country of origin and government's not allowed to discriminate. Thats why Jean Marie Le Pen won that election in France this week... YES, its THAT BAD and THAT MUCH WORSE there...
Mama
1 May 02, 17:33

Well , many people in this forum likes to say " migrate to other countries loh " and stuff like that , of course in other countries there are different management styles and policys . Leaving S'pore cannot solve the problem once and for all , we will never know how life will be overses unless we have been there to experience it ourselves . Most of us here are S'poreans ; we grew up here , our friends and family are here , its our home and roots . Do u think by migrating to other countries can resolve all your discontentment with our goverment ? Do u want to be second-class citizens in an Ang-Moh country ? Where else can we go ? S'pore is our home and where we really belong in this planet earth .
joievie
4 May 02, 19:07

even if we want to change things...can we really? this is a well-governed country... the ministers work hard to provide leadership and direction...so it's ok even if they cut income tax for the rich. if that's what they want we should listen as they have good intentions. after all, these people are the ones in the upper crust and they deserve to have more disposable income since they have done so much. so my fellow comrades, let's persevere and work hard so that we can contribute more tax to singapore! with these fundings no doubt our country will prosper and be the elite of the nations. see, we are already on our way! despite the recession, we still manage to enjoy perks like impressive architecture for public buildings. did you see them in the papers? gorgeous creations worth every penny!
i just want to thank the government, who have made my life here such a peaceful and happy one.