Well, I wasn't refering to BMT alone--note the title says national service, not BMT. And yes, I agree with you(though I don't like your tone) Bmt is only the tip--I have plenty of commando and Guard pals to tell me All about it. But to experience it? U kiddin'? Once you hear it, you get fits. And, I HAVE gone through BMT. Unlike most people, I'm not gonna forget it and say--Nah,it was nothing. It WAS hell. You know it, I know it. Unless you were in White horse co. or Pes c co,.etc. I was pes b, in Advanced BMT. so 3 field camps etcetc. And yeah, I know of the Post-Traumatic stress disorder. It came with the pressure of watching people you know and care about die in front of you. Some kind of shock, I think.(Shivers) War...what's it good for?Originally posted by Altrex:c'mon Adrian, u're not enlisted yet unless I'm wrong so what do you know of the interesting NS punishments? Stories? nothing beats doing the real thing as i'm sure others will agree.
and yes yuu_kajima, what do u mean by torture? running down 4 storeys and doing it again and again cos u failed to make the timing? c'mon, can anyone out there who has served before tell me if they haven't done that and actually think that's a torture?
if u're still in BMT, i can safely tell u that u're at the very tip of the iceberg and generally BMT instructors are VERY nice. Most instructors in any training sch (by now), will train you hard, but in a reasonable manner.
do u know that in my BMT, there was a famous incident just after parent's visiting that resulted in the OC being charged (at least he was rumoured to be charged). in any case, he was removed from his post. this is the result when u "torture" recruits. pls...with all you soft complain kings, who dares to "torture" any of you now?
Littleman is right. Basically u need DISCLIPLINE. the hallmark of a armed forces. and adrian, the govt cannot tell you to go and die, that much is true. the constitution can. when u finally get enlisted, pls pay more attention to the words in the SAF pledge and if u ever make OCS, study yr military law a bit more. u'll find that yr officers have every single right to ask u to charge and possibly die simply because the nation demands it and the President gives yr officer the right to order it.
and yes, yuu_kajima, war is a tough thing. probably the worse part is what it does to you psychologically. there are tons of Vietnam war stories abt new conscipts unable to take the mental pressure and the psychological demands. if you can't even handle a little pressure of making a fall-in timing, i despair for you.
try to buck up. 2.5 yrs is a short time, u'll realise when u leave the service, but it can be very long too, if you have poor attitude. same advice to adrian
generally, the new batches of officers and specs are not as hard and unbending as last time. are you in any way a lesser man than the rest of us? i'm sure u're not. if you can't take a bit of hardness, u'll learn that you won't be able to achieve anything in this world, even outside the military context.
So you live for other people? You'll learn. But before that, you'll realize that no one would give a hooter's poop how and where you die in war. There are no war heroes--only good killers. And there is no peace--just deterence. And, lastly, nonono, YOU are the hideous one.Originally posted by LittleMan:so you are marking all war-times heros as idiots. Now, I seldom call people names in this forum, but i shall let you be an exception -- you are hideous.
Note that I didn't call them idiots--YOU did.I repect that they were willing to die for something they believed in--that takes a lot of sacriface--to die for something. I would, too, but it would be for something I believe in, not the constitution. I don't believe what the constitution tells us. An I'm not stupid, either, I can make decisions for myself without their help.
You put your self-interest above everything.
That's nice. I would die with and for my BMT platoon too, although some of them were as*holes. But would THEY want to die as eagerly as YOU do?Originally posted by LittleMan:Frankly, it is all those hardship (call it torture if you want) that makes me so dedicated to my platoon. After all these trainings, i can finally call them buddies and am willing to die with them in the war front.
I may be an individual, but together we create a force.
Oh, Iknoe, I get that all the time. I'm not insulting the bonds between the platoonmates. Somtimes I look at my buddy and I think--wouldn't it be nice if we had been friends outside of BMT, before it came along...And I know most officers don't like smart asses. Woo-hoo. So what if they are tough? I don't care. That's their problem. I'm not soft--just idealistic. I'd like to stay that way too. And I'm already POP. Hated the whole thing, though. I liked the sergeants, though. They were good people. And I know most of you people out there think we are "Cao(4) Kheng(1)", but we're not. (I assume) I have only 3 problems--and that's with the constitution and the twisted idea of peace and some of the sadistic officers.Originally posted by Altrex:encore LittleMan! I salute you.
Indeed, when you leave the service, many guys are bonded through common experience.
I have a few close friends whom I've only spent a mere 10 weeks in NS with. We went through bad times, encouraging each other, and made it through by supporting each other. I know that in bad times, they will always support me and we will go through thick and thin together. Besides willing to die with them, I know that in the crunch they will not willingly let me down.
It's the trust. Forged through common experience.
Yuu_kajima, if you're still in BMT, u had better pray that u don't go to units like 1 Guards or 3 Guards. Many of the OCs there are tough Guards officers. They wouldn't like your kind.
Thanks, man. You're right, of course.Originally posted by millennium:Not all training in BMT are siong, violence and inhuman. If you are lucky to get into some welfare company in BMTC School, or any whitehorse in your company. You can start to enjoy your BMT to fullest. Believe me, the welfare can be super welfare. I am one of those lucky batch to enlist in the most welfare company in BMTC School 2 few years ago. During that time, every company in BMTC School 2 knows how welfare my company is. Now the company had moved to Tekong, I do not know their welfare standard now.
Of course I also saw some company who little welfare is given to recuit, tekan them everyday. Get scolding everyday. Not treated like human at all.
It all depend on your luck. Which type of company you posted to.
Wish good luck to all who have not enlist.
Like I said, I respect what they've gone through--it takes a lot--I know. But I don't respect the types of officers and PTIs and SGTs who take pleasure in hurting people. Don't be surprised--they exist. I've met some of them--monkey king, for instance.Originally posted by Altrex:one more thing, yuu_kajima, yr officers have been through probably every single thing they asked u to do and a lot more.
so have the PTIs if u're crying abt them. PTIs do FBO SOC. once, i met this bunch of PTI trainees doing FBO SOC training in Pasir Laba Camp. looking at them, i really wonder how they could take it. they have my respect coz they earned it. i never looked at PTIs the same way again since that day.
by the way, yr officers are trained to do whatever they can to keep you alive. they have a responsibility to yr parents, gf, whatever, for yr welfare (REAL welfare, not "how to be a soft kid")
they answer for yr training, morale and discipline. pls respect them a bit more
Well said.Originally posted by adrian xtc:LittleMan, let the time tells the outcome. where m i posted??? i dun even noe which company i'm posted to. as for the BMTC school, u noe where the majority go.
Altrex, no, the constitution cant do that, the government can.
I wish you luck.Originally posted by adrian xtc:for ur info, i only have to spent 7 weeks on Tekong as i'm a PES C enlistee.
i am too not a tough person. My timing for SOC was always one of the lowest in my platoon. But i try. I volunteered to run in SBO rifle helmet in the early morning run while all the rest of my platoon mates are in PT kit. I am not good, but i try.
Well, at least, to me, it is tough, because I'm not the sort to exercise regularly, although I'm a school player
i am not a PTP batch. But i am a monointake. And in monointake, our BMT is not in School (BTS) but in Unit. You want to know how tough that is ? Go ask your mono-intake frens. There was a week when the whole company only slept for 3 hours, yes, for THE WHOLE WEEK, NOT 3 hours everyday.
Did you go for PTP? Our total BMT was 4 months because of that
you think i thought who confirm ? sounds familiar ? If there is a need, it will be done.
I-Don't-think-any officer would command like that
so you are suggesting that we shall not have an army at all and when the intruders come, we just fight the away from our home/ And if they attack your nieghbours' house, it is also none of your business ? as long as you are safe ? I think LittleMan is right, you "put yourself above everything else". But he is polite enough not to use the word "selfish".
I'd much rather be beside my family, fighting away intruders, so that even if I die, at least I die with my family, in my home.
then said :
keep your threats and insults off this forum. I don't know who you are, and I don't give a damn. Just discuss, talk, and don't scold-
still dare to say :
YOU are the hideous one.
you simply slapped yourself.
At least we don't, see?
nobody in this thread ever says war is good. And because it is no good that's why we need a strong and effective army to deter potential aggressors like what Revelations said.
(Shivers) War...what's it good for?
huh ? you are saying Lim Mou Sheng etc etc are killers ?
There are no war heroes--only good killers.
i don't think LittleMan is "eager to die" like what you said. But he will give no hesitation to sacrifice his life for his country when required. For that i applaud him.
But would THEY want to die as eagerly as YOU do?