National Service....
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It's rather interesting to read all the posting in this topic. Several people are rather aggressive while some are rather sincere in expressing their views. I have to say that none is totally wrong, but nobody is completely right either.
National Service (NS) is a very important aspect of national defence. Here, we call it Total Defence (TD) which consists of five equally important realms. These five realms constitutes activities collectively helping the nation to progress and propel beyond its present state. None of them should be seen as less important than any other. Nation building is a never-ending process. Rome was not built in a day. People need to be mobilised to render their service to build a better society.
NS is part of military defence. It is statutory that all Singaporeans have a duty to protect the nation. All physically fit persons are legally binded to serve NS.
Because of our small population, each individual is an important asset to the country. Most people need to take up multiple roles in our society.
First, we have to go through NS, which is followed by reservist to the age of 50 and 40, for officers and other ranks respectively. Here, we see men coming together for a common objective: to protect our land, our home.
Second, the reservists, which form the main body of our armed forces, are also professionals and workers, each armed with knowledge and skills, and making contributions to the society in another way, economic defence. These people, who can be seen packing buses and MRT trains every morning and evening, work for the development of the nation. Their diligent work contributes to our strong economic growth. Without them, there is no talk for a national fiber/coaxial network providing cable television and making singapore an intelligent island. There is no talk for a second terminal at Changi Airport, let alone a third. There won't be even talk for SAF scholarships and fast promotions of SAF regulars which usually accompany large pay increments.
Third, many individuals are also contributing, on their own accord, through social services. Volunteers in hospitals, old folk's homes, and even neighbourhood police posts. Social defence, is what we call it.
Fourth, there are people doing charity and welfare work. Some may also be parting some of their income for charity. These people hope to bring help and hope to the less fortunate people in our society.
The list is nevertheless not exhaustive. What we need to understand here is that at different time, we play different roles. In Singapore, everyone has enough burden to take care of himself, his family, the society and nation. We, as fellow citizens, have responsibilities towards ourselves and the society. We need mutual SUPPORT of each other, in all aspects of TD. To acheive it, we must have mutual RESPECT for each other.
In peace,
Frankie. -
Whatever it is, we still have to do it right? So quit bitching!
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I can certainly identify with kajima's first post. When i was conscripted i went in with a will and desire to serve my country, but my idealistic intentions immediately left me once i hit BMT and i became very anti-SAF. I had some other bad experience later with superiors in my unit which made me even less impressed with the SAF.
I understand the need for discipline, and for hard physical training, and this is not what i and kajima protest about. In fact i was one of the most "on" in my platoon, and even now in my operationally ready NS training i take it more seriously than most in my unit.
What i hate is the way the SAF is structured so that you feel absolutely helpless at the whim of every sadistic superior who wants to tekan you for fun or to feel his absolute power over you. This is mindless cruelty, not discipline.
If your superiors are fair minded and humane, lucky for you, but if they are evil, you've had it, the system is behind them and there is no one to help you. If you were a civilian you could resign from the company and quit, perhaps flee the country even, but you have a green IC, and are under military law, a law which supports your superiors and not your rights.
My experience during NS has made me very bitter towards the SAF. If a war ever happens, i will question just why i should bother to defend Singapore and the Singapore system and way of life, when it allows such bad things to go on. Instead of inspiring me to be patriotic and to defend my country, the SAF has done the opposite to me. -
the SAF law dont protect the officers although some might see it that way.Originally posted by bengtang:I can certainly identify with kajima's first post. When i was conscripted i went in with a will and desire to serve my country, but my idealistic intentions immediately left me once i hit BMT and i became very anti-SAF. I had some other bad experience later with superiors in my unit which made me even less impressed with the SAF.
I understand the need for discipline, and for hard physical training, and this is not what i and kajima protest about. In fact i was one of the most "on" in my platoon, and even now in my operationally ready NS training i take it more seriously than most in my unit.
What i hate is the way the SAF is structured so that you feel absolutely helpless at the whim of every sadistic superior who wants to tekan you for fun or to feel his absolute power over you. This is mindless cruelty, not discipline.
If your superiors are fair minded and humane, lucky for you, but if they are evil, you've had it, the system is behind them and there is no one to help you. If you were a civilian you could resign from the company and quit, perhaps flee the country even, but you have a green IC, and are under military law, a law which supports your superiors and not your rights.
My experience during NS has made me very bitter towards the SAF. If a war ever happens, i will question just why i should bother to defend Singapore and the Singapore system and way of life, when it allows such bad things to go on. Instead of inspiring me to be patriotic and to defend my country, the SAF has done the opposite to me.
the truth is that SAF law like any other law, protect the intelligient and make a good show out of the less brighter brain.
be smart. -
All the torture nd "tekhan"? It's actually part and parcel of BMT. You going SISPEC or OCS lah gee worst.
But after you post to unit, life's pretty much better. Unit sergeants and officers are more friendly and most won't "tekhan" you. Some are even "ar kah liao" with you or will go chiong with you went book out. These are the commanders that you'll be fighting with during a war. (Unless you kanna those weird saddist that play "BMT" then dun say lah.)
As I read maybe some got bad experience in NS then what can I say...so big organization you cannot satisfy everyone.
I got some friend hate NS like hell cause it disrupt their personal life or they got tekhan. Some of my friend don't find NS as bad. I also fall under this catergory.
Yah lah I also got up and down in NS, tekhan, stress and stuff. But after you ORD you think back you will miss those guys you slept with, joking with, play with, chiong with, chao keng with, and kanna tekhan together by saddist.
Up to now I still hate MY CSM and ex-PC but I had many good times with the rest. Dun think I must be from LOBO unit, frigging shiong Armour Unit lah. everyday chiong and going Australia 2 time some more. Barrack like shit and dusty. service M113 until siao! But it's the pple that make NS life interesting. You go LOBO unit but no sense of belonging maybe will feel even worst and hate NS even more. (Dunno lah I guess one
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I read from some where got one say he rather say with his family to fight off the enemy if got war. Oi! You oi Tah Han Leh? See you parents killed and you sibling rape and torture. F3$K man, if me I WON'T even let them touch them!! I WON'T even let them see my family!!!! I WON'T even let them land in singapore!!!
NS got give you gun leh!!! It may just be a simple M16S1 or SAR21, all the IA, but these weapons are still better than your kitchen chopper or other stuff lah!
You imagine you stay in your house then you heard alot of shooting and people scream. Not just scream leh...is like those yells you heard in stadium, except that it's all crieds and women screams. You can tah Han leh!
I saw a HK movie about some Japanese Naking Rape, the whole show echo with women's scream.......disturbing and this make you think alot.....what if one day s'pore like that? except all te scream is from your parents/friends/girlfriend/wife/kids/etc.....
okay I talk to much ;p Hope I'm talk sense.
BTW: I not a pro PAP.....dun mix up the govt and the defence of S'pore. -
Since we are having so many positive comment for NS. why don we make NS voluntary? Then those who like NS can serve the SAF for as long as they want. I am sure people like LittleMan, LittleMan Supporter, Altrex, Altrex Supporter etc etc will join the NS for another round. They can do as many push up, run over many mountain and still feel proud of themselve being fit while those anti-SAF personnel can go on to contribute to the economic of singapore instead wasting their time around. Economic defence is also very important or else where do we get all the $$$ for the SAF suck on? And wouldn't resource be spent on advance weapon and training regular army more effective than forcing low morale NSmen to do NS hindering our economic?
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Can't imagine what our 'enemies' would do if we don't serve NS due to low morale. Could Singapore be another Kuwait? Likely. Perhaps men from Commandos, Guards, Armour and Arty understand the needs of NS better. These units are constantly brifed on the lastest development especially threats from Malaysia or Indonesia. My ex-OC gived us a good ex. of the pre-u girl who got raped by five Malaysian in Changi. Imagine that happening to your gf or sister. Btw boys and men are not safe too, sodomizing is the trend of Malaysian. These maggots must be warned of our abilities of defending ourselves, ensuring a safe place for investment. I can't see how our economy can flourish let only with thousands of 'anti-SAF' personnel on the streets looking for jobs.
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What are the regular army and police paid for?? to lobo in camp when all these raping is happening? Why are so many advance weapon purchased for? to show off during the national day? Isn't all these to show that singapore has the abilities and means of defending ourselves? Isn't a full time fully trained regular army with advance weapon in a much better position to defend singapore rather than a large pool of Low morale NSmen crowding on our small island waiting to be bombed.
2.5 years NS is too long and hinders the economic of the country. Look at all the surfacing problem in singapore. Yes we might have the defence but what's the use of the defence when our population is greying out. shouldn't we be substituting most of the manpower with technology. Shouldn't the MOD divert most of the money they s*cked from us into better usage paying the regular better and buying more advance weapon then to f*ck us around paying us pathetically a few hundred dollars to run over mountain? Why should the government pay our own money back to us to defend our country while keeping the rest of the revenue in their pocket?
Singapore had become a gold mine for the foreigner, we are getting more than 25% foreigner as our virtual population. what's left of singapore in the future if our local population keep declining? We are dying from the inside. Will the government be forced to enlist all female citizen for NS to supply cheap labour for the SAF? I am sure more complains and disapproval for NS will surface when that happens. -
Originally posted by hardware:
why are we getting so many foreigner to work in singapore? why should our youth be indulged in NS taking away 2.5 years of their precious time? We have malaysian youth already building their career in singapore while our youth is still running over mountain. How do you feel when employer ask you whether you need to go back to reservist training.
I can't see how our economy can flourish let only with thousands of 'anti-SAF' personnel on the streets looking for jobs.[/B]
Yes, the maximum number of days the SAF can call us back for ICT/reservist training is only 40 days. However, compared this to the normal 14 days of leave that a employee in singapore can take, the company will suffer loss. How would the company feel for a SINGAPOREAN employee who have to be frequently called up for ICT/reservist for 40 days leaving more urgent and important jobs undone. No wonder, some employers have to question singaporean whether they need to go back for reservist during job interview. And no wonder, more and more foreigner or PR are being employed while the singaporean are left out in the cold. If i am the employer, i will defintely employ an equally skilled PR rather than a singaporean who need to leave a project frequently for training for the company's sake. Maybe we should be asking ourselves question "Why be a singaporean?" refer to article from http://www.gn.apc.org/sfd/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/01Ds/220201d.html Why are we subjected to so much disadvantage?
Below is an interesting article that you might want to take note http://www.gn.apc.org/sfd/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/01Ds/190101.html
[This message has been edited by Kyo23 (edited 13 March 2001).] -
I don't think with only 35000 of SAF regulars and police could deter the aggression shown to us by Malaysia and Indonesia. High tech equipment and weaponary need people to operate. As a matter of fact most high tech equipments are manned by regulars. eg. RSAF and RSN. The Army need NSmen to fill the gap of need in infantry, armour, signal, combat engineer and so on. SAF is the most well organised and trained armed force in this region. All Nsman had contributed and sacrified to a certain extend. Will trained (low morale) Nsmen just sit on their ass waiting to be bombed? Or will they rather return shell for shell. These low moraled men will still fight for their lifes atleast they know how thanks to SAF. Our neighbours are hungry and jealous of our wealth. Only SAF could stand in their way.
2.5 yrs is just nice for commanders to finish their courses in the first yr and led their man in units for 1.5yrs.
Have more babies, thats a solution for your corcern
I agreed that the allowance is too low. Well, I'm a half paid commando for 2.5yrs. What to do? Can the govt. afford to pay us regulars salary?
Female enlistees, never... girls will protest. -
there is actually something you can do about the above, thats right, find a chabo, get married and work it up all night long and push singapore population up lah.Originally posted by Kyo23:What are the regular army and police paid for?? to lobo in camp when all these raping is happening? Why are so many advance weapon purchased for? to show off during the national day? Isn't all these to show that singapore has the abilities and means of defending ourselves? Isn't a full time fully trained regular army with advance weapon in a much better position to defend singapore rather than a large pool of Low morale NSmen crowding on our small island waiting to be bombed.
*defence of your family and country is not the responsibility of those in SAF service but includes everyone in and outside SAF. we all have a role to play. for example, if someone wants to rape your girlfriend,are you going to call the police and wait for the police to come while standing around and watch the show, heehee
2.5 years NS is too long and hinders the economic of the country.
*if the govt release everyone from NS, i am pretty sure your next pay packet will be much lower in view of the sudden influx of nearly 40,000 labour supply.
Look at all the surfacing problem in singapore. Yes we might have the defence but what's the use of the defence when our population is greying out.
*greying population and defending the nation are different problem, though related to national survival, they are not substitute of either.
shouldn't we be substituting most of the manpower with technology. Shouldn't the MOD divert most of the money they s*cked from us into better usage paying the regular better and buying more advance weapon then to f*ck us around paying us pathetically a few hundred dollars to run over mountain?
*good suggestion about buying more high techy stuff to defend the nation. bad suggestion on thinking that high techy stuff alone can win a war.
Why should the government pay our own money back to us to defend our country while keeping the rest of the revenue in their pocket?
*the accumulated reserve can mean the difference of victory or defeat in times of war. putting it another way, every dollar in reserve contributes to your chances of coming back from the war since these $$ would be spend on keeping you supplied, armed, feed, treated and taken care of in the front. last thing you want as a war front soldier is to find out that our govt cant afford to buy you bullets.
Singapore had become a gold mine for the foreigner, we are getting more than 25% foreigner as our virtual population. what's left of singapore in the future if our local population keep declining? We are dying from the inside. Will the government be forced to enlist all female citizen for NS to supply cheap labour for the SAF? I am sure more complains and disapproval for NS will surface when that happens.
but i agreed that singapore govt has done close to nothing about the falling birth rate except mouthful of saliver. -
As i said before since there are still so many positive support for NS, make it voluntary. I'm sure pple like tripwire and hardware etc will join the NS. With the increased pay of the regular army, wouldn't more pple join in SAF to be fully trained for war? Currently, most of the low morale NSmen find it a drag going back for training. Can a low morale NSmen be fully trained for war? they are just wasting their time and resources going back.
Do you think our citizen will accept having more babies as a suggestion to solve the greying population problem? The cost of having a babies in singapore cost like a bomb. if you are having a baby boy, he has to waste his time to go for NS when he grow up. why the hell would anyone put themselve into so much disadvantage? why not have a baby boy outside singapore and apply PR if he wanna stay in singapore. PR have the privilege of not serving NS and still enjoy all the benefit. Please read the article about "Why be a singaporean?" fight for your right.
response to the comment from tripwire.
** defence of your family and country is not the responsibility of those in SAF service but includes everyone in and outside SAF. we all have a role to play. for example, if someone wants to rape your girlfriend,are you going to call the police and wait for the police to come while standing around and watch the show, heehee **
In response to this, what would a PR do? join the NS to safeguard his love one? Don't to be so naive lar!! Such an example is not valid to compare with defence of singapore. When i see someone wanna rape my girlfriend, i will surely beat him up on the spot and not run back to camp get my SBO, helmet, rifle etc. Anyway that someone might turn out to be you my fellowcountrymen. what should i do? still join NS?
Yes we all have a role to play for the defence of singapore, not necessary in military defence but can be in other form.
** if the govt release everyone from NS, i am pretty sure your next pay packet will be much lower in view of the sudden influx of nearly 40,000 labour supply. **
Please analyse why in the hell would we need to have more than 25% foreign worker for substitute of labour force in our country? which is more? 25% of virtual population (foreigner) or your 40000 local labour supply which is much needed? we are facing labour shortage that's why we need so many foreign worker.
** the accumulated reserve can mean the difference of victory or defeat in times of war. putting it another way, every dollar in reserve contributes to your chances of coming back from the war since these $$ would be spend on keeping you supplied, armed, feed, treated and taken care of in the front. last thing you want as a war front soldier is to find out that our govt cant afford to buy you bullets. **
Good way of saying thing. However, our reserve is more than enough i believe since we are not having any war. it's even enough until the government can afford to lose much more in their stupid investment. And since these $$ you think is well spent to be kept in the reserve, please do contribute more in your next income tax or so.
** find a chabo, get married and work it up all night long and push singapore population up lah. **
good suggestion for you not me.Then i hope i can visit you with all your kids ready for NS in the future if you can still survive from the high burden of raising so many kids in singapore. Produce more and help supply cheap labour for SAF.
[This message has been edited by Kyo23 (edited 14 March 2001).] -
Originally posted by Kyo23:
As i said before since there are still so many positive support for NS, make it voluntary. I'm sure pple like tripwire and hardware etc will join the NS. With the increased pay of the regular army, wouldn't more pple join in SAF to be fully trained for war? Currently, most of the low morale NSmen find it a drag going back for training. Can a low morale NSmen be fully trained for war? they are just wasting their time and resources going back.
^*are you sure you are talking about morale?? NSmen going back ICT with long face is call low morale?? i think its call buay song. ahhaahaa..... understandable lah. got comfy home and money to spin, obviously as humans, the idea of going back to LR LR, wearing green camo and bang bang bang all over the range and hills is understandably buay song. the only song song physical training is at the gym where you can see (maybe accidentally touch) those sleek slim figure with bouncing breast and near bikini outfits on beautiful chicks. if not, why singaporean so stupid spend money and join gym to be tekan and compalain when SAF pay them to go exercise?? becos SAF BO CHABO(beautiful women)!! ahahahaaaaaaa
Do you think our citizen will accept having more babies as a suggestion to solve the greying population problem? The cost of having a babies in singapore cost like a bomb. if you are having a baby boy, he has to waste his time to go for NS when he grow up. why the hell would anyone put themselve into so much disadvantage? why not have a baby boy outside singapore and apply PR if he wanna stay in singapore. PR have the privilege of not serving NS and still enjoy all the benefit. Please read the article about "Why be a singaporean?" fight for your right.
^*in this world of globalization, national identity is understandably being erroded, especially in singapore which is a global city. in fact, why even have nations at all?? as long as you have money, you can have anything in this country or that, the world is revolved around money, not nationality. take an example, you hold a singapore IC, but you own a factory in malaysia or even in USA, the law of the country favours you or the local citizens?? in fact, you can have any malaysian or US citizens arrested by their own authority for trespassing 'your land'!! But the question is, why despite the world of money, nations still exist? what is the purpose of a nation? ask yourself that question. if there is no need for a nation, nations will disappear. so why are they still around??
^*you think that the PR are defended by singaporeans?? serving in NS??? dont kid yourself friend. PRs are rootless clouds, when there is something they want, they aggregates there like a monsoon cloud, but at the first sign of trouble, like the cloud, they vanished into thin air. where got PR to protect?? you think they are going to trust YOU, singapore and our SAF to defend them??? drop dead o.k. , at the first sign of trouble, they will pack their bags and disappear like the cloud!
^*no doubt that there are some PRs who eventually decided to stay, as such, the govt therefore insist that their second generation (we dont want old man in SAF mah) be liable for NS like citizens. you want to be singaporean, you bear the burden of being a singaporean. simple as that.
^*But why did singapore govt try all ways and means to get PRs to singapore?? because we are a small nation and we need talents that either we dont have or dont have in sufficient numbers to make singapore work for the better living of all those living on this island including singaporeans and PRs. so its kind of a trade off, we offer the PRs something that they cant get elsewhere and they in turn contributes to our country and benefit all those that live on this island.
^*as for the greying population, i think the govt is slow and sigh........ nin kum put. lots of saliver, no action, they think they wag wag their tongue and all singaporean couples will rush home and make babies. ahahahaaaaaa
^*i have a suggestion, families that have no children pay double tax rate and families that have 3 or more children pay zero tax.;> the tax from families who dont want to have babies can be use to invest in funds that generates return for them when they grow old. if taxation not tasty, how about we creamed 40%(now is 20%) off couples pay who dont have children by a certain age into the CPF to prepare for the day when they have no children to support them. else the next generation will suffer under the increase burden of a greying population.
^*goh has given the carrot, i offer the stick. haheheheeaaa, else they waste their money on stupid wheels and tours that have little purpose in my view.
[b]response to the comment from tripwire.
** defence of your family and country is not the responsibility of those in SAF service but includes everyone in and outside SAF. we all have a role to play. for example, if someone wants to rape your girlfriend,are you going to call the police and wait for the police to come while standing around and watch the show, heehee **
In response to this, what would a PR do? join the NS to safeguard his love one? Don't to be so naive lar!! Such an example is not valid to compare with defence of singapore. When i see someone wanna rape my girlfriend, i will surely beat him up on the spot and not run back to camp get my SBO, helmet, rifle etc. Anyway that someone might turn out to be you my fellowcountrymen. what should i do? still join NS?
^* better join NS, if not, i dont think you can win on a one to one fight against someone who was trained in military combat, in fact, you might end up being raped too!! hahahaaaa
Yes we all have a role to play for the defence of singapore, not necessary in military defence but can be in other form.
^*you dont contribute to one form, you have to contribute to ALL forms. all the five pillar of total defence is one and related. united, they are stronger then the parts. if one should fail, the others will falther as well. its like a house, if one of your house wall or pillar have crumbled, or cracked, do you still feel safe sleeping under that big big shakey roof??
** if the govt release everyone from NS, i am pretty sure your next pay packet will be much lower in view of the sudden influx of nearly 40,000 labour supply. **
Please analyse why in the hell would we need to have more than 25% foreign worker for substitute of labour force in our country? which is more? 25% of virtual population (foreigner) or your 40000 local labour supply which is much needed? we are facing labour shortage that's why we need so many foreign worker.
^*foreign labours works in industries that locals usually loathed to be in. there may be 400,000 foreign workers in singapore, but they dont go after the same job as yours. but those 40,000 from NS are singaporeans with similar educational background, some of them might be eyeing the same job as yours. OR displaced other singaporeans from their jobs and these people end up competing for your job, a domino effect. either way, your next pay is under threat. foreign workers, they are under terms to work only in specific industries only and this help to prevent them from taking away your job.
** the accumulated reserve can mean the difference of victory or defeat in times of war. putting it another way, every dollar in reserve contributes to your chances of coming back from the war since these $$ would be spend on keeping you supplied, armed, feed, treated and taken care of in the front. last thing you want as a war front soldier is to find out that our govt cant afford to buy you bullets. **
Good way of saying thing. However, our reserve is more than enough i believe since we are not having any war. it's even enough until the government can afford to lose much more in their stupid investment. And since these $$ you think is well spent to be kept in the reserve, please do contribute more in your next income tax or so.
^*there is never such a thing call money is enough. if there is more money, they can spend more on better food and better medicine to save you or keep you up. anyone who thinks that our 100 billion dollar is enough dont realise the full cost of a war. saudi arabia offered to foot half of american war bills in the gulf war. they think that they are rich, only to find themselve broke when the americans presented them the bills.
^*losses incurred in investment is unfortunate, but a neccessary risk in the hope of making more money. No risk No gain. question is, how to ensure that whoever invest the money on our behalf is capable and can make money for us. occasional loses have to be considered as acceptable losses while ensuring that sufficient returns are still gained from other investment. all banks have bad loans, that is a fact, whether you are citibank, standchart or local 4 bank. but you dont see them firing their CEOs now and then for bad debts.
** find a chabo, get married and work it up all night long and push singapore population up lah. **
good suggestion for you not me.Then i hope i can visit you with all your kids ready for NS in the future if you can still survive from the high burden of raising so many kids in singapore. Produce more and help supply cheap labour for SAF.
^*you can see it in many ways, when i send my kids to NS, i hope he learned something in NS that he would otherwise never learn in school or in his future jobs. i been through NS too and though i wouldnt say it was a great tour of duty, it did open my eyes to a different facet of life and reality which i would otherwise have missed. consider NS as part of your life's journey, a time to see beyond your HDB windows and immerse in a world of kill or be killed, the law of nature. money isnt the only thing in life, there is more to it then simple dollars and cents. one day i will pass on and rest for good, but until that day, i am happy to do the things that i can do now, including typing this reply on the internet.
^*have you found your purpose in life?? who are u in this life?? what do you want in this life?? ever ask these question??
[This message has been edited by Kyo23 (edited 14 March 2001).][/B] -
Be mature lar. you sound like a sex maniac. exercising and training to be fit can be at home and other places also..only rich and boliao people will go to gym. learning martial art during leisure time is also another form of keeping yourself strong. i don't understand why you suggest joining NS in order to win one to one fight against the rapist. you take 2.5 years of your precious time to train yourself against a rapist? what's your aim in life? to be a fighter is it? if that is so, i have nothing to say. continue to join your NS while the rest of us get on with our normal life.Originally posted by tripwire:those sleek slim figure with bouncing breast and near bikini outfits on beautiful chicks. if not, why singaporean so stupid spend money and join gym to be tekan and compalain when SAF pay them to go exercise?? becos SAF BO CHABO(beautiful women)!! ahahahaaaaaaa^*you think that the PR are defended by singaporeans?? serving in NS??? dont kid yourself friend. PRs are rootless clouds, when there is something they want, they aggregates there like a monsoon cloud, but at the first sign of trouble, like the cloud, they vanished into thin air. where got PR to protect?? you think they are going to trust YOU, singapore and our SAF to defend them??? drop dead o.k. , at the first sign of trouble, they will pack their bags and disappear like the cloud!
that's the idea, but why does the PR is getting almost the same benefit as singaporean? Singapore is the only country in the world that confers more benefits to foreigners than its own citizens. http://www.gn.apc.org/sfd/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/01Ds/240201.html^*no doubt that there are some PRs who eventually decided to stay, as such, the govt therefore insist that their second generation (we dont want old man in SAF mah) be liable for NS like citizens. you want to be singaporean, you bear the burden of being a singaporean. simple as that.
yes of course these PR decided to stay but they have no intention to convert their PR status to citizen. Ask around my Malaysian Singapore PR friends, they will say who so stupid get a citizenship and have to serve NS for what. bring yourself trouble. and if they wanna give birth to a baby boy, they can always go back to malaysia to give birth and apply PR for him also.^*i have a suggestion, families that have no children pay double tax rate and families that have 3 or more children pay zero tax.;> the tax from families who dont want to have babies can be use to invest in funds that generates return for them when they grow old. if taxation not tasty, how about we creamed 40%(now is 20%) off couples pay who dont have children by a certain age into the CPF to prepare for the day when they have no children to support them. else the next generation will suffer under the increase burden of a greying population.
good suggestion. however i don think the government will do these. zero tax for families ?? you must be kidding. they are already complaining that their payroll is not fat enough. Creaming 40% off taxation? wow, i think they will definitely welcome this. they have more money to spent. refer to interesting joke http://www.gn.apc.org/sfd/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/01Ds/140101.html i guess you should know how true this joke might depict our current situation.^*foreign labours works in industries that locals usually loathed to be in. there may be 400,000 foreign workers in singapore, but they dont go after the same job as yours. but those 40,000 from NS are singaporeans with similar educational background, some of them might be eyeing the same job as yours. OR displaced other singaporeans from their jobs and these people end up competing for your job, a domino effect. either way, your next pay is under threat. foreign workers, they are under terms to work only in specific industries only and this help to prevent them from taking away your job.
you are somewhat wrong here. I am in IT line. Currently, you can see whole lots of Indian, Malaysian and China PR flooding the whole office of most IT company that you might know. how do you explain all these?? if you ask the HR, they would say not enuff manpower. That is why they need to recruit foreign professional largely from neighbouring countries.^*you can see it in many ways, when i send my kids to NS, i hope he learned something in NS that he would otherwise never learn in school or in his future jobs. i been through NS too and though i wouldnt say it was a great tour of duty, it did open my eyes to a different facet of life and reality which i would otherwise have missed. consider NS as part of your life's journey, a time to see beyond your HDB windows and immerse in a world of kill or be killed, the law of nature. money isnt the only thing in life, there is more to it then simple dollars and cents. one day i will pass on and rest for good, but until that day, i am happy to do the things that i can do now, including typing this reply on the internet.
My purpose in life is to provide the best for my love and close one. I don't wish to see my kid who might be send to NS to waste his 2.5 years rendering cheap labour for SAF which i had gone through. that's defintely not my wish. he could had already gotten a degree or master by then, building his career path in the real world instead of stepping out into real world 2.5 years late. Whether is it eye opening or not, it will still be useless in the real world when you step out late. late entrance to real world, late career, late marriage all these are related to NS.
^*have you found your purpose in life?? who are u in this life?? what do you want in this life?? ever ask these question??
if you like your kids to go through that wasted 2.5 years of time to do cheap labour for SAF, go ahead. that's why i suggest NS should be voluntary. -
If you can identify the feeling of these NSmen as "buay song". That's a good thing cos "buay song" mean complaining and unhappy which is much worse than low moral. Such feeling i am afraid to the extreme might turn out to be rebelious. when your soldiers are extremely buay song, what do you think they will do?Originally posted by tripwire:^*are you sure you are talking about morale?? NSmen going back ICT with long face is call low morale?? i think its call buay song. ahhaahaa..... understandable lah. got comfy home and money to spin, obviously as humans, the idea of going back to LR LR, wearing green camo and bang bang bang all over the range and hills is understandably buay song -
LOL, Can the Government afford to pay you people money? They could if they wanted to.Originally posted by hardware:I don't think with only 35000 of SAF regulars and police could deter the aggression shown to us by Malaysia and Indonesia. High tech equipment and weaponary need people to operate. As a matter of fact most high tech equipments are manned by regulars. eg. RSAF and RSN. The Army need NSmen to fill the gap of need in infantry, armour, signal, combat engineer and so on. SAF is the most well organised and trained armed force in this region. All Nsman had contributed and sacrified to a certain extend. Will trained (low morale) Nsmen just sit on their ass waiting to be bombed? Or will they rather return shell for shell. These low moraled men will still fight for their lifes atleast they know how thanks to SAF. Our neighbours are hungry and jealous of our wealth. Only SAF could stand in their way.
2.5 yrs is just nice for commanders to finish their courses in the first yr and led their man in units for 1.5yrs.
Have more babies, thats a solution for your corcern
I agreed that the allowance is too low. Well, I'm a half paid commando for 2.5yrs. What to do? Can the govt. afford to pay us regulars salary?
Female enlistees, never... girls will protest.
Singapore as I have last known of, has 150 billion USD reserves.
We have 83 ministers in the parliament,
At the very very least, we are paying 83 million to the ministers annually, is justified? NO.
Furthermore as a note to you,
our dear ministers receive 1.5million to 2>? million SGD a year. Reason for having the highest paid ministers around the world? Prevent corruption. Money is greed, greed is unlimited. If we need to pay so much to a ministers so that he will not be bribe, he might as well not serve since he is evil.
To bribe our ministers so that they will not be bribe, is that acceptable as a reason?
You regulars are saving the country too, why should you people not be entitled to such kind of money too?
I see no logic in that. You got to note, a 1.5 million income a year is a very very very big margin even with the higest paid scholar officer in SAF. Both are serving nation. Please note that Tony Tan is a minister and should not be counted as part of the SAF officials though he is one.
Furthermore, New Zealand, a bigger country than us has only 8000+ regulars.
And you said, low morale soldiers will fight? If it's a fight or die situation, yes they will fight. If it's a run, fight or die situation, which one you think low morale soliders will choose? Very very obvious isn't it?
Sadly, if you have truely talked to many people from private sections, what is SAF regarded as? A place for people who can't survive in competiton.
My brother had been in the RSN for 9 over years, he regret it big big time.
Why? Basically, SAF is a slacking force in most units, a place which commands no intelligent except to follow orders. Unless if you're one with something to flaunt on your shoulder, maybe you can use your intelligence, other than that, sadly no.
My brother thru the years, he has seen many failures in the private sector crawl back to SAF for they cannot survive in the real competitive society.
However, I would say, if one is interested in the politics, one could try climbing thru the SAF ladder to become a politican one day.
[This message has been edited by tango (edited 15 March 2001).] -
Be mature lar. you sound like a sex maniac. exercising and training to be fit can be at home and other places also..only rich and boliao people will go to gym. learning martial art during leisure time is also another form of keeping yourself strong. i don't understand why you suggest joining NS in order to win one to one fight against the rapist. you take 2.5 years of your precious time to train yourself against a rapist? what's your aim in life? to be a fighter is it? if that is so, i have nothing to say. continue to join your NS while the rest of us get on with our normal life.
*lets just say it depends on how much you value your GF. are you willing to sacrifice 2.5 years of your life in SAF to be part of the forces that seeks to defend your GF?? or maybe you think your GF aint worth going through that kind of shit. better your 2.5 years of freedom then saving your GF from being raped? rape in war is pretty common if not part and parcel of war. so how much do you value your life, your future, your GF, your family and your freedom?? better to see your GF gang raped by enemy, your family got killed and scattered around digging for roots to fill their belly then wasting your precious 2.5 years of freedom right??
that's the idea, but why does the PR is getting almost the same benefit as singaporean? Singapore is the only country in the world that confers more benefits to foreigners than its own citizens. http://www.gn.apc.org/sfd/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/01Ds/240201.html
*please tell me what benefits does foreigners have more then local citizens??
yes of course these PR decided to stay but they have no intention to convert their PR status to citizen. Ask around my Malaysian Singapore PR friends, they will say who so stupid get a citizenship and have to serve NS for what. bring yourself trouble. and if they wanna give birth to a baby boy, they can always go back to malaysia to give birth and apply PR for him also.
*sorry to hear that, unfortunately, heehee... all children of second gen PR holders are also liable for NS. hahaahaaaa, unless they stick to WP. in my unit, there was quite afew soldier who are born in malaysia, one was a brit born in UK. but they all LR LR with us whether they got blue, green, black, brown or purple eye.
good suggestion. however i don think the government will do these. zero tax for families ?? you must be kidding. they are already complaining that their payroll is not fat enough. Creaming 40% off taxation? wow, i think they will definitely welcome this. they have more money to spent. refer to interesting joke http://www.gn.apc.org/sfd/Link%20Pages/Link%20Folders/01Ds/140101.html i guess you should know how true this joke might depict our current situation.
*joke?? who is joking??
you are somewhat wrong here. I am in IT line. Currently, you can see whole lots of Indian, Malaysian and China PR flooding the whole office of most IT company that you might know. how do you explain all these?? if you ask the HR, they would say not enuff manpower. That is why they need to recruit foreign professional largely from neighbouring countries.
*since your HR has given you the answer, there seems little need for me to elaborate further as i have already pointed that out in my last post. you would have seen it if you read carefully.
My purpose in life is to provide the best for my love and close one. I don't wish to see my kid who might be send to NS to waste his 2.5 years rendering cheap labour for SAF which i had gone through. that's defintely not my wish. he could had already gotten a degree or master by then, building his career path in the real world instead of stepping out into real world 2.5 years late. Whether is it eye opening or not, it will still be useless in the real world when you step out late. late entrance to real world, late career, late marriage all these are related to NS.
if you like your kids to go through that wasted 2.5 years of time to do cheap labour for SAF, go ahead. that's why i suggest NS should be voluntary.
*we all have different point of view and different hope, its understandable of course. but primary to all our hope and wishes, there is a fundamental desire, that is to see that our children grow up in peace, prosperity, progress and free. since only SAF can provide that, i can only say your desire to see a strong SAF is equal to mine, unless you wish to see your children blown up by mines and air raids like in vietnam and cambodia. but then, maybe its better to see your sons and daughters or even GF get blown to pieces, eat rotten food, being bullied by enemy soldier or die before your eyes then waste 2.5 years of your precious freedom. i wonder if the worst nightmare comes, will your love ones, sons, daughters, wifes and parents thank you for their suffering or will they lament about some good for nothing dickhead who is so selfish that he rather see everyone suffer then going through NS. -
Sigh... just can't bother to answer you tripwire. you sound like a kid sometime. what's your status? Still serving NS? regular or working now? once you are out in the real working world then you understand what's going on.
foreigner are getting all the benefit, digging our gold and have no liability to serve NS at all. Most Employer are employing foreigner worker instead of local citizen in preference. Firstly, they don't have to go back for NS ICT/IPPT training leaving their job hanging. 2ndly, their CPF contribution is lower and maybe expected pay will be lower too. think about it. our local pple are facing so many competition and yet we have to serve NS for so long.
NSmen lose their educational zeal after all the 2.5 years of tekan, tought training etc. most cannot get back to their study mode after NS when they enter U. The educational gap between sexes are getting wider, more and more graduate female cannot find a suitable partner. Singlehood becoming a major problem in singapore. when our population die off. By then let's see how many of us still got the energy to go back for NS. -
*after NS, i lost the zeal in studying too, in fact, it was tough picking up the books in NUS especially in the first year, but i hanged on and got through it.Originally posted by Kyo23:Sigh... just can't bother to answer you tripwire. you sound like a kid sometime. what's your status? Still serving NS? regular or working now? once you are out in the real working world then you understand what's going on.
*i understand perfectly my friend. it is you who cannot accept the reality that is thrusted upon you. if we have no foreign expats, will your life be better or worst?? you cant tell and i doubt you really wanna risk finding it out. we live in a world of competition, even if you dont have all those foreign expats, you still have to compete with local singaporeans over a shruken pie. closing our doors is not the solution, the japs and chinese did that for hundreds of years in the past, only to be shown the foolishness of such a belief.
*ours is a small nation that can only survive by opening our doors to trade, information and competition. you lament about your NS liability and how employers have pass you by. unfortunately, sad though it is, it is by no measure the fault of the govt, the govt has tried many measures to encourage employers to be more forgiving towards NS trainning, in fact, given the tight labour market in singapore, if the govt is strict with the import of foreign labour, rest assured that your employer would be even less forgiving towards reservist trainning.
*yet at the same time, due to our precarious geopolitical environment, we must have a strong SAF, a strong SAF can only come about from the people of singapore participating fully in NS. without SAF, without protection and security, you wouldnt even want to be in singapore, or even be recognised as singaporeans much less worry about jobs and pay. afterall, which stupid company is gonna invest in a nation with no sense of security??? would you put your money in a bank with no security??
foreigner are getting all the benefit, digging our gold and have no liability to serve NS at all. Most Employer are employing foreigner worker instead of local citizen in preference. Firstly, they don't have to go back for NS ICT/IPPT training leaving their job hanging. 2ndly, their CPF contribution is lower and maybe expected pay will be lower too. think about it. our local pple are facing so many competition and yet we have to serve NS for so long.
*NS is the responsibility of you towards your family and your nation. if you value your family and nation, stop whinning and accept the reality around you. if you dont value your family, i have nothing else left to say. jobs?? careers?? i understand the difficulty, i went through the same thing, but somehow, we simply have to ask, is our jobs more important then the security of our nation and family?? if the boss is unforgiving, that is fine with me, i can leave and find another job, but i cant nor do i wish to leave my country and family. that is all.
*I personally do not consider NS as a liability, in fact, I think NS has helped me seen farther and beyond then i would never had if i have not gone for NS. i have been tekan like mad in NS, but i went through it, jobs?? pays?? stupid boss?? idiotic superviser?? cunning colleage?? backstabbing here and there?? i been through hell and back, these things just merely works to my advantage now. haahahaaaa
NSmen lose their educational zeal after all the 2.5 years of tekan, tought training etc. most cannot get back to their study mode after NS when they enter U. The educational gap between sexes are getting wider, more and more graduate female cannot find a suitable partner. Singlehood becoming a major problem in singapore. when our population die off. By then let's see how many of us still got the energy to go back for NS.
* obviously as long as there are singaporeans around, i think it is the responsibility of those alive to look after their own security needs. do you really think the dead would crawl out of the grave and defend singapore like what LKY wanted to do?? if the dwindling population of singapore decided it is better to sleep with no security , that is their choice, they make the choice, they will live or die by their choice. we will not be around them to warn them by then.
*with respect to falling population, how about we ask the govt to permit polygamy, that is, one husband, many wifes? this way, alot of grad women can then be married to man of the same qualification.
*but in view of the strong chabo movement in singapore, i can see this suggestion shot down by hordes of raving mad female chauvanistic barbarians way before the motion is table in parliament. -
Really! can the govt. pay NSmen that kind of money? How long will USD 1.5 billion reserve last? If regulars pays are unattractive, no one would be stupid enough to be bonded for 6yrs or more. What kind of defence issues and threats New Zealand has to face daily?Originally posted by tango:LOL, Can the Government afford to pay you people money? They could if they wanted to.
Singapore as I have last known of, has 150 billion USD reserves.
We have 83 ministers in the parliament,
At the very very least, we are paying 83 million to the ministers annually, is justified? NO.
Furthermore as a note to you,
our dear ministers receive 1.5million to 2>? million SGD a year. Reason for having the highest paid ministers around the world? Prevent corruption. Money is greed, greed is unlimited. If we need to pay so much to a ministers so that he will not be bribe, he might as well not serve since he is evil.
To bribe our ministers so that they will not be bribe, is that acceptable as a reason?
You regulars are saving the country too, why should you people not be entitled to such kind of money too?
I see no logic in that. You got to note, a 1.5 million income a year is a very very very big margin even with the higest paid scholar officer in SAF. Both are serving nation. Please note that Tony Tan is a minister and should not be counted as part of the SAF officials though he is one.
Furthermore, New Zealand, a bigger country than us has only 8000+ regulars.
And you said, low morale soldiers will fight? If it's a fight or die situation, yes they will fight. If it's a run, fight or die situation, which one you think low morale soliders will choose? Very very obvious isn't it?
Sadly, if you have truely talked to many people from private sections, what is SAF regarded as? A place for people who can't survive in competiton.
My brother had been in the RSN for 9 over years, he regret it big big time.
Why? Basically, SAF is a slacking force in most units, a place which commands no intelligent except to follow orders. Unless if you're one with something to flaunt on your shoulder, maybe you can use your intelligence, other than that, sadly no.
My brother thru the years, he has seen many failures in the private sector crawl back to SAF for they cannot survive in the real competitive society.
However, I would say, if one is interested in the politics, one could try climbing thru the SAF ladder to become a politican one day.
[This message has been edited by tango (edited 15 March 2001).]
How much does our ministers worth if they work in private sectors? What kind of salary the govt. need to pay to attract capable people? Flankly, i not a supporter of PAP but I accept the fact that NO opposition parties could match or replace PAP.
We have to face the fact. How many low morale personnel (with their families) could run away b4 the first shell landed on Singapore?
Should we say that every individual has their own 'cut'. If you're meant to work in SAF only, you have to accept that fact. We are responsible for the choice we make. -
*after NS, i lost the zeal in studying too, in fact, it was tough picking up the books in NUS especially in the first year, but i hanged on and got through it.
it's good that you managed to pull through, however think about those who din make it or having difficulties getting throught it. you are just the lucky one and hence you can be positive towards NS. I am sure lots of NSmen hate the days when they are in NS.* obviously as long as there are singaporeans around, i think it is the responsibility of those alive to look after their own security needs. do you really think the dead would crawl out of the grave and defend singapore like what LKY wanted to do?? if the dwindling population of singapore decided it is better to sleep with no security , that is their choice, they make the choice, they will live or die by their choice. we will not be around them to warn them by then.
do you think in real time war when singapore might be falling, LKY (if he's still alive)will still be in singapore with his load of money? LKY crawling out of the grave and defend singapore? that's bullshit man.
And talking about leaving the next generation of singaporean to live or die by their choice? wouldn't your offspring be in the crowd? it's good that you recognised our population is dwindling. what's the root of this problem? do we still urge the dwindling citizen to serve NS for extra year maybe 5 years or even longer to protect the majority of foreigner in singapore so that they have no worry while digging their gold? maybe we should increase the max age of NSmen liable for reservist till 70 by then. And maybe by then we really have no choice but to force our daughter to serve NS also. Our citizen might become nothing but just a cheap tool to defend singapore while all the revenue might just flow outward into someone's pocket.So in this sense, don't the government policies confer more benefit to foreigner?*with respect to falling population, how about we ask the govt to permit polygamy, that is, one husband, many wifes? this way, alot of grad women can then be married to man of the same qualification.
i totally agreed with the idea that this suggestion will be shot down. however, even if it get through, what will end up is that we still have lots of single unqualified man and lots of family problem due to polygamy. furthermore, female with higher qualification in education are mostly career minded and will disapprove of having babies.
*but in view of the strong chabo movement in singapore, i can see this suggestion shot down by hordes of raving mad female chauvanistic barbarians way before the motion is table in parliament. -
Agreed but i really feel that the government should be paying the regular better to make it a more desireable career. Regular are the one serving full time NS to ensure our safety in singapore. who will be the one to stop enemies from bombing our island? who will be the one to stop enemies from landing on our shore? definitely not the minister. why does the treatment differ i like to ask? where do all our money from our taxes go to?Originally posted by hardware:Really! can the govt. pay NSmen that kind of money? How long will USD 1.5 billion reserve last? If regulars pays are unattractive, no one would be stupid enough to be bonded for 6yrs or more. What kind of defence issues and threats New Zealand has to face daily?
How much does our ministers worth if they work in private sectors? What kind of salary the govt. need to pay to attract capable people? Should we say that every individual has their own 'cut'. If you're meant to work in SAF only, you have to accept that fact. We are responsible for the choice we make. -
it's good that you managed to pull through, however think about those who din make it or having difficulties getting throught it. you are just the lucky one and hence you can be positive towards NS. I am sure lots of NSmen hate the days when they are in NS.
*yes, it is sad that some didnt make it after NS. but without NS, we wouldnt even have a nation much less a university to go into.
do you think in real time war when singapore might be falling, LKY (if he's still alive)will still be in singapore with his load of money? LKY crawling out of the grave and defend singapore? that's bullshit man.
*thats pretty obvious.
And talking about leaving the next generation of singaporean to live or die by their choice? wouldn't your offspring be in the crowd? it's good that you recognised our population is dwindling. what's the root of this problem? do we still urge the dwindling citizen to serve NS for extra year maybe 5 years or even longer to protect the majority of foreigner in singapore so that they have no worry while digging their gold? maybe we should increase the max age of NSmen liable for reservist till 70 by then. And maybe by then we really have no choice but to force our daughter to serve NS also. Our citizen might become nothing but just a cheap tool to defend singapore while all the revenue might just flow outward into someone's pocket.So in this sense, don't the government policies confer more benefit to foreigner?
*i think you should not equate the problem faced by the nation due to falling birth rate with govt policies towards foreigners, in fact, even if there is no foreigners, we will still have a falling birth rate, and in view of the severe tight market then, the birth rate could fall even sharper due to lack of manpower to substitute our womens who now have to take care of the new generations.
*secondly, do you think that NS contributes to falling birth rate? if so, how come many nations around the world that has no NS still suffer from falling birth rate like japan and the EU??
*so please understand that foreigner and NS do not contribute to falling birth rate, although falling birth rate leads to increase reliance on foreign workers to supplement the local labour shortfall and adds to manpower constraints to military defence by having their second gen to serve in NS.
i totally agreed with the idea that this suggestion will be shot down. however, even if it get through, what will end up is that we still have lots of single unqualified man and lots of family problem due to polygamy. furthermore, female with higher qualification in education are mostly career minded and will disapprove of having babies.
*seriously saying, having a polygamy society would lead to higher birth rate as womens trys to lock onto their husbands.
*man who cant find wives can jolly way get foreign wifes, all these measure would certainly push local population up.
*with respect to family problem, that is another matter.you cant have the best of both world. in fact, eversince the womens have become more educated and financially less dependent on man, divorce rate has been raise in tandem. the womens call it freedom, we man calls it arrogance. -
Originally posted by hardware:
Really! can the govt. pay NSmen that kind of money? How much does our ministers worth if they work in private sectors? What kind of salary the govt.
Can you learn to read? Did I say about paying NSmen 83K a month? Use some common sense. Let me elaborate. If the ministers' salaries are reduced and used it to pay NSmen using the amount reduced. Would it not be better? As I have stated my stance, if we need to bribe our ministers so that they will not join the private sector or so that they will not be bribed, does it makes sense that they are really trying to serve the nation? Being in the parliament is a way of serving your country, it is not just for the pay. If a minister cannot forsake his private sector's salary, what's the point of him serving?
How long will USD 1.5 billion reserve last?
Excuse me, you can't read? It's 150 Billion USD. In reply to your question, very long if it's used for the increment in SAF personnel salary.
If regulars pays are unattractive, no one would be stupid enough to be bonded for 6yrs or more.
Telling me 2-3K for a regular specialist is a lot? Telling me 2-6K for officers, it's a lot? Sad truth, there are always stupid people in the world, furthermore, there are people who think SAF is a good organisation but once they're in it, they realised how 'good' it really is. After you signed the bond, what to do?
What kind of defence issues and threats New Zealand has to face daily?
Can't see how big a country NZ is? A defence force is still a defence force. What are the area Singapore need to defend? What are the area NZ need to defend? Dare you tell me NZ face no potential external invasion?
Flankly, i not a supporter of PAP but I accept the fact that NO opposition parties could match or replace PAP.
No credible opposition parties? I hear that commonly and how much do you know about opposition parties? How many opposition parties do you know there is in Singapore? Fact is? There are credible opposition parties, JBJ and his party is a good example.
We have to face the fact. How many low morale personnel (with their families) could run away b4 the first shell landed on Singapore?
Good question, I won't know how many people would have fled before the first shell land in Singapore. Indeed if one left with no choice but to fight, they will fight but question is, how bravely? A highly moraled platoon would definitely do better than one without or with low morale, is that not agreeable?
Should we say that every individual has their own 'cut'. If you're meant to work in SAF only, you have to accept that fact. We are responsible for the choice we make.
We are responsible for the choices we make, indeed that is true, however, if you are the kind who can work in SAF, they still are our countrymen, is their salary justified? It is a national issue, not just ourselves.
Lastly. Answer my questions before asking me questions.
[This message has been edited by tango (edited 19 March 2001).] -
generally, the new batches of officers and specs are not as hard and unbending as last time. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, the new generation of officers are..shall we say..lacking. I'm no fan of tekaning, especially if it's senseless and some superiors actually get a kick out of doing that.
However, the new batches of officers "not as hard and unbending"? i venture to think they are total softies! But as with changing times and trainers, subsequent batches will always fall short of the expectations of previous batches: less tekaning, training standards drop, more revised TSR that ultimately makes it a pretty safe.
I think some changes should be revised inside the school training standards and actions during field trainings should not be "going through the motion". An element of risk that does not extend to endangering the lives of NSFs should be added to make training more realistic. Are recruits now able to throw a live grenade? Last i heard, they threw a simulated one.
In all real aspects, NS is important...but action should be taken to ensure they realise the seriousness of the training so that they don't come into sgforum and say that NS is a waste of time or that S'pore cannot be defended.
Of course i dun take these speakers seriously, they're just out to start a controversial topic to incite others...