With regards to today's ST
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Yes, i can just see US SOCOM releasing AC-130s to handle the problem of pirates.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Yah,totally agree that AC-130 Spectre gunships are the way to go for such problems.Can loiter around the target area far longer then any chopper.Using the Spectre Gunship with is Gatling guns,105mm Bofors cannon,40mm AGL.Which pirate see liao balls won't shrink?Unless they have a handful of Stingers or Iglas then it would be a different ballgame.
A more logical action would be to use more helicopters. Needless to say, a Spectre is far far more expensive/valuable/a lot of things more than your normal helicopter.
By the way, AC-130s have never been armed with 40mm AGL, not even the AC-130A "Plain Jane" introduced in 1968. (there weren't no 40mm AGL)
The correct term is 40mm Light AA gun.
See below
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/l60.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ac-130.htm -
It is never cheap to maintain them... Each cost abt US$55M to maintain 1Originally posted by Johnston:Yes, i can just see US SOCOM releasing AC-130s to handle the problem of pirates.
A more logical action would be to use more helicopters. Needless to say, a Spectre is far far more expensive/valuable/a lot of things more than your normal helicopter.
By the way, AC-130s have never been armed with 40mm AGL, not even the AC-130A "Plain Jane" introduced in 1968. (there weren't no 40mm AGL)
The correct term is 40mm Light AA gun.
See below
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/l60.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ac-130.htm -
IMO, other than air power and the EC-130 that we are talking abt... ASW, AEW and Anti Sea is also vital
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wah so lucky sia...Originally posted by sbst275:IMO, other than air power and the EC-130 that we are talking abt... ASW, AEW and Anti Sea is also vital
Pirates can only use boats...no submarines for them =D
if not we have to get P-3C Orion to hunt them..
Anyway, do you all think that we should modify Fokker-50 with a side mounted machine gun...so that it can handle naval warships...
as well as a machine gun to tear apart sampans.. -
then what? still use Harpoons?Originally posted by sgdiehard:SBSK talked about terrorism at sea. Pirates in sampans only attack to rob, but if international terrorists use them to hijack a ship, change the cargo to a few hundred tons of ammonium nitrate and then sail into singapore port........
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No, stay in the sky and watch the fireworks. It would be nice even if it explodes in the day. If it blows up next to a supercontainer vessel, it should sink it leaving a few hundreds containers floating around; if it blows up next to an oil supertanker, phew, a greater fireball; all high rise building facing the sea will have their window shattered, singapore will be on the headline all over the world......in the meantime, we can continue to discuss if we should use Fokker 50 Enforcer or AC-130, should we mount Harpoon, machine guns, cannon or may be just use arrow. one arrow is enough to kill a pirate, sampan without pirates is okay, why need need guns, cannon, or missiles?Originally posted by laurence82:then what? still use Harpoons? -
*clap clap*Originally posted by sgdiehard:No, stay in the sky and watch the fireworks. It would be nice even if it explodes in the day. If it blows up next to a supercontainer vessel, it should sink it leaving a few hundreds containers floating around; if it blows up next to an oil supertanker, phew, a greater fireball; all high rise building facing the sea will have their window shattered, singapore will be on the headline all over the world......in the meantime, we can continue to discuss if we should use Fokker 50 Enforcer or AC-130, should we mount Harpoon, machine guns, cannon or may be just use arrow. one arrow is enough to kill a pirate, sampan without pirates is okay, why need need guns, cannon, or missiles? -
ROFL, Just now about Terrorists and pirates using sampans is a joke actually..Originally posted by sgdiehard:No, stay in the sky and watch the fireworks. It would be nice even if it explodes in the day. If it blows up next to a supercontainer vessel, it should sink it leaving a few hundreds containers floating around; if it blows up next to an oil supertanker, phew, a greater fireball; all high rise building facing the sea will have their window shattered, singapore will be on the headline all over the world......in the meantime, we can continue to discuss if we should use Fokker 50 Enforcer or AC-130, should we mount Harpoon, machine guns, cannon or may be just use arrow. one arrow is enough to kill a pirate, sampan without pirates is okay, why need need guns, cannon, or missiles?
Terrorists..can always provide the funds...note that Osama is a rich freak and Sampans..are what previous pirates use..
Pirates are getting richer and richer...think we may be seeing something more then a sampan when the years goes by..
Even terrorists in Middle east, are equipped with stingers and rpg-7..
with JI , in south east asia whom they continue their brothers...
I can evaluate that they might supply their brother with sampans...
another RPG or whatsoever..sinking a tanker is next best to crashing a plane into a building...
To sink a tanker through the porous indonesian islands...not a huge problem actually =D
Furthermore, most oil tankers do not carry weapons or defenses on board..
making them vulnerable...how can we eliminate terrorism, when piracy is a form of it..
Suggest we have AC-130 aircraft patrolling , after all , Singapore gets
$ 12 BILLION SGD per year from PSA...
Whats the cost of using 4 AC-130 Spectre gun ships...to guard and monitor the straits...
more and more pple might choose to cut the Isthmus of Kra over the next 50 years..provided southern thailand becomes more stable..
And we lose $12 billion dollars in potential revenue. How's that? -
Yo Johnston,sorry for the wrong armament posted man.
Spectre if I'm not wrong is classes under the category as an aerial assault weapon and not a defensive weapon.If SG gets Spectre gunships,if may have a significant shift in airpower in a region and we may be perceived as a threat to the other countries in the region.This may result in a major arm conflict.So,its best to keep it a hush-hush affair.
Anyway,does anyone have any idea if a normal C-130 can be converted to an AC-130 Spectre by RSAF without sending the aircraft to the US?Thanks....
Lastly,think that chopper strikes are risky and not really suitable.As the only good thing about choppers is that their ability to hover thats all.And if they are working far from any airbase,they may need to be navy variants where they have to be able to land on out LSTs.Thus,i feel that an alternatve is to get A-10 Thunderbolts or AC-130 Spectre gunships.They are the terror in the sky if any pirates wanna screw around. -
Hello, what do you think the pirates use today? submarine? missiles gunboats? UFO? previous pirates use sampan and modern pirates also use sampan, equipped with OBM, or fishing boats, slightly bigger than sampan. It gives the pirate the speed to get near the ships. How much do we really know about pirates? and terrrorists operating from sea?Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:ROFL, Just now about Terrorists and pirates using sampans is a joke actually..
Terrorists..can always provide the funds...note that Osama is a rich freak and Sampans..are what previous pirates use..
Pirates are getting richer and richer...think we may be seeing something more then a sampan when the years goes by..
Even terrorists in Middle east, are equipped with stingers and rpg-7..
with JI , in south east asia whom they continue their brothers...
I can evaluate that they might supply their brother with sampans...
another RPG or whatsoever..sinking a tanker is next best to crashing a plane into a building...
To sink a tanker through the porous indonesian islands...not a huge problem actually =D
Furthermore, most oil tankers do not carry weapons or defenses on board..
making them vulnerable...how can we eliminate terrorism, when piracy is a form of it..
Suggest we have AC-130 aircraft patrolling , after all , Singapore gets
$ 12 BILLION SGD per year from PSA...
Whats the cost of using 4 AC-130 Spectre gun ships...to guard and monitor the straits...
more and more pple might choose to cut the Isthmus of Kra over the next 50 years..provided southern thailand becomes more stable..
And we lose $12 billion dollars in potential revenue. How's that?
What is the real threat the Harpoon equipped Fokker is trying to counter? RSN or RSAF are not and should not be deployed to take on pirates. Is there a real terrorist threat from the sea? I don't think NCC know, just leave it to the pro.
Lets carry on with AC-130, it does not have all the equipment in the Fokker to do maritime surveilance so it is like a robot cop, heavily armed who can't see. I suggest we deploy a few leisure cruiseliners with police undercover on board, crusing along the straits to monitor the pirates activities; or deploy a few tens of leisure crafts, with women police wearing bikini to attract the pirates. If the pirates come, hahaha, got you!! like that sure got a lot of marine police volunteer for these duties one. -
You are not a guy working for the intelligence services of singapore...Originally posted by sgdiehard:Hello, what do you think the pirates use today? submarine? missiles gunboats? UFO? previous pirates use sampan and modern pirates also use sampan, equipped with OBM, or fishing boats, slightly bigger than sampan. It gives the pirate the speed to get near the ships. How much do we really know about pirates? and terrrorists operating from sea?
What is the real threat the Harpoon equipped Fokker is trying to counter? RSN or RSAF are not and should not be deployed to take on pirates. Is there a real terrorist threat from the sea? I don't think NCC know, just leave it to the pro.
Lets carry on with AC-130, it does not have all the equipment in the Fokker to do maritime surveilance so it is like a robot cop, heavily armed who can't see. I suggest we deploy a few leisure cruiseliners with police undercover on board, crusing along the straits to monitor the pirates activities; or deploy a few tens of leisure crafts, with women police wearing bikini to attract the pirates. If the pirates come, hahaha, got you!! like that sure got a lot of marine police volunteer for these duties one.
please try not to comment much =)
Real terrorist threat from the Sea?
RSN and RSAF are Singapore's primary assets, which would be used to defend our primary interests during peacetime/wartime..
What are our interests? SLOC.
Im sure the crew of USS Cole in Yemen during 2000 would flame you.
Definitely.
Just need to have whereby pirates can provide the logistics...and a clear and experienced pirate captain...whereby they just rent a boat from Riau..
Remember if they can bomb so many places in Indonesian...Jakarta , Bali Bombings...Why not pack a C4 into a boat and ram it ?
After all...If they can so easily board the ship and a pirate is driven by $$...
$$ is also what terrorist groups has..
Terrorists hires the pirates, remember that some of the pirates...might work with them...all in the name of Radical extremism.
Just need to knock out 1 major ship..
I think the average NCC cadet, can also give better suggestions then..
"deploy a few leisure cruiseliners with police undercover on board, crusing along the straits to monitor the pirates activities; or deploy a few tens of leisure crafts, with women police wearing bikini to attract the pirates. If the pirates come, hahaha, got you!! like that sure got a lot of marine police volunteer for these duties one"
Haha, you do know how RSN works...When Pirates ATTACK a ship...
Firstly, they will report of the incident to the nearest port, last time morse code was used..now..radio communication..
A likely scenario , would be pirates attacking oil tanker, and then the coast guard/navy is called in..
Yup and pirates may have binoculars , BUT they can't identify bikini women from a distance of miles apart...
What your mentioning is simply...CRAZY...wasting resources and stuffs..
What im suggesting is that a FASTER response time....AC-130 that could be swifty deployed...
or 24 hour patrolling around the Straits..AC-130 is reowned for the ability
to linger around the target area..
With 24 hour patrol...the plane could just provide air support for the crew
and chase the pirates away by firing warning shots...so simple
and for all we know..the joint patrols was for show only... -
Just so you did'nt put there "armed with 40mm M203"Originally posted by SpecOps87:Yo Johnston,sorry for the wrong armament posted man.
Spectre if I'm not wrong is classes under the category as an aerial assault weapon and not a defensive weapon.If SG gets Spectre gunships,if may have a significant shift in airpower in a region and we may be perceived as a threat to the other countries in the region.This may result in a major arm conflict.So,its best to keep it a hush-hush affair.
Anyway,does anyone have any idea if a normal C-130 can be converted to an AC-130 Spectre by RSAF without sending the aircraft to the US?Thanks....
Thus,i feel that an alternatve is to get A-10 Thunderbolts or AC-130 Spectre gunships.They are the terror in the sky if any pirates wanna screw around.
Yes, C-130's are very hushable.
Even more hushable are the distinctive external difference between a normal Herk and an Spectre.
The answer to your question, if you wanna a mobile airborne disco, and you got the money, you can do whatever you want with a Hercules.
Hmm, your getting a bit over the top.
Thunderbolts?
Have you ever considered the possiblity of something else?
MI-24 Hinds. -
my friend's a sailor and he told me once his ship was boarded by pirates, they were so skinny and weak that a mere punch would kill them. all they wanted was food.
and then there're the times when you hear cling cling cling cling and you know some idiot's shooting an ak47 at you. -
Gosh....Harpoons to take out sampans....dats like using a sledgehammer to wack an ant....too much of an overkill....I would think that perhaps something like the LCS or an armed hovercraft would do the job more effectively....the LCS and the hovercraft would have the speed to run down the pirates....on the other hand,they would have the capabilities to take out the suicidal martyrs at a distance....most importantly,there is no need kill the pirates to weed them out;after disabling their crafts,the embarked boarding party(maybe a cooperation with the PCG's STS?)could take capture the pirates and/or terrorists who might provide valuable sources of information....all in all,a more effective way of battling the seaborne threat SG is currently facing....juz my 2 cents' worth....
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Hovercraft slow response....cause after a ship distress call...must rush there..Originally posted by FiReDuKe:Gosh....Harpoons to take out sampans....dats like using a sledgehammer to wack an ant....too much of an overkill....I would think that perhaps something like the LCS or an armed hovercraft would do the job more effectively....the LCS and the hovercraft would have the speed to run down the pirates....on the other hand,they would have the capabilities to take out the suicidal martyrs at a distance....most importantly,there is no need kill the pirates to weed them out;after disabling their crafts,the embarked boarding party(maybe a cooperation with the PCG's STS?)could take capture the pirates and/or terrorists who might provide valuable sources of information....all in all,a more effective way of battling the seaborne threat SG is currently facing....juz my 2 cents' worth.... -
SBSK, you are not a man of any real military intelligence.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:You are not a guy working for the intelligence services of singapore...
please try not to comment much =)
Real terrorist threat from the Sea?
RSN and RSAF are Singapore's primary assets, which would be used to defend our primary interests during peacetime/wartime..
What are our interests? SLOC.
Im sure the crew of USS Cole in Yemen during 2000 would flame you.
Definitely.
Just need to have whereby pirates can provide the logistics...and a clear and experienced pirate captain...whereby they just rent a boat from Riau..
Remember if they can bomb so many places in Indonesian...Jakarta , Bali Bombings...Why not pack a C4 into a boat and ram it ?
After all...If they can so easily board the ship and a pirate is driven by $$...
$$ is also what terrorist groups has..
Terrorists hires the pirates, remember that some of the pirates...might work with them...all in the name of Radical extremism.
Just need to knock out 1 major ship..
I think the average NCC cadet, can also give better suggestions then..
"deploy a few leisure cruiseliners with police undercover on board, crusing along the straits to monitor the pirates activities; or deploy a few tens of leisure crafts, with women police wearing bikini to attract the pirates. If the pirates come, hahaha, got you!! like that sure got a lot of marine police volunteer for these duties one"
Haha, you do know how RSN works...When Pirates ATTACK a ship...
Firstly, they will report of the incident to the nearest port, last time morse code was used..now..radio communication..
A likely scenario , would be pirates attacking oil tanker, and then the coast guard/navy is called in..
Yup and pirates may have binoculars , BUT they can't identify bikini women from a distance of miles apart...
What your mentioning is simply...CRAZY...wasting resources and stuffs..
What im suggesting is that a FASTER response time....AC-130 that could be swifty deployed...or 24 hour patrolling around the Straits..AC-130 is reowned for the ability
to linger around the target area..
With 24 hour patrol...the plane could just provide air support for the crew
and chase the pirates away by firing warning shots...so simple
and for all we know..the joint patrols was for show only...
please try not to comment much =)
First thing a C-130 concept will not work. Maybe helicopters ? not likely. Too expensive and can see nothing and do nothing.
First, there is too many fishing boats and ships around the area. Even with the best binocular or night vision, you cannot tell who the bad guy, they don't hang out the jolly pirate flags ! They are like any other boats, they don't brandish that gun openly till mission time. You just assume that fly around and you see a boat with a pirate flag or men all armed ?
Once they identified the target, they go for it. They will move close then armed themselves and board. And it is the middle of the night. They will move so fast that the ship will not have time or even dare to send any signal. You cannot just shoot up any small boat that seem to come along side a ship, can be a habour master boat bring to and fro the channel pilot.
By the time even you get signal which is after the incident, even if you see a boat, are you sure it is the one, you cannot shoot even warning shot as you cannot be 100% sure !
Even if 100 % sure, they may have dump their weapons, and loots also within a few mintues, they are already out of internation water, back in their own countries water. You want to engage "local fishermen" ?
Even if you get the pirate in the open, you fire at them from air ! You will end up killing everyone, losting all the evidences and been accuse of bloody murder of poor fishermen, start a reginal war ? yep sure look good !!! SAF C-130 or Super Puma - kill a boat full of local fishermen out fishing.
Next Pirates avoid cruise ship or a ship full of bikini girls as they spell too much trouble. They are not that dumb. They know to hit a crusie ship and you will bring up the heat so hot and so much pressure, that that will end that business real fast. -
Unfortunately, the pirates doesn't subscribe to ST.
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Harpoons is not design for sampans, it will not even be able to lock on to the sampans, much less to hit it !Originally posted by FiReDuKe:Gosh....Harpoons to take out sampans....dats like using a sledgehammer to wack an ant....too much of an overkill....I would think that perhaps something like the LCS or an armed hovercraft would do the job more effectively....the LCS and the hovercraft would have the speed to run down the pirates....on the other hand,they would have the capabilities to take out the suicidal martyrs at a distance....most importantly,there is no need kill the pirates to weed them out;after disabling their crafts,the embarked boarding party(maybe a cooperation with the PCG's STS?)could take capture the pirates and/or terrorists who might provide valuable sources of information....all in all,a more effective way of battling the seaborne threat SG is currently facing....juz my 2 cents' worth....
LCS or hovercraft, running them down ? forget it, they have a head start, within less then a few mintues they are already out of internation water and into their own water. Also if they are slower, they just quitely drop few weapons and loots overboard in the chase, which you will not even see, then what you have is just fishermen.
The Indonesia and Malaysia need to do their part for anything to work. The fight of pirates cannot be fight at the sea. It must be fought at home. -
So far the only relevant post with regards to fighting pirates. Well done.Originally posted by storywolf:Harpoons is not design for sampans, it will not even be able to lock on to the sampans, much less to hit it ! ......
The Indonesia and Malaysia need to do their part for anything to work. The fight of pirates cannot be fight at the sea. It must be fought at home. -
aiyoh it started with someone (hint hint) who suggested using air launched harpoons against terrorists who can be working with pirates or something like that...
in the attack against USS Cole, terorrists use small motorboats(?), in the piracy incidents around sg, pirates use sampans and motorboats..but Harpoon will be useful against larger sized vessel...which terrorist or pirates may not find feasiblle or too costly...
then topic diverge coz of one stupid post..sigh.... -
America can impose on all vessels heading for USA to have the cargo checked and cleared of any possible WMD before allowed to go near their ports. Singapore cannot. Any vessels sailing into port of singapore, if suspected of carrying any WMD will be asked to anchor way outside the port area, failing which these vessels will be sunk, with whatever means.
Anybody with the intention to carry terrorist attacks are terrorists, not pirates, and terrorists do not limit themselves to using sampan or motorboats only.
It is obvious that RSN is not focusing only on pirates on sampan, because their brains are not as small as sampan, fortunately.