FIBUA in Urban Singapore
-
Anyone has anything to say about the FIBUA conducted in SG?Feel that not enough is done to ensure our troops have been sufficiently trained in FIBUA here.
SG is typically urban,and any decisive battles fought here will depend on how well are the troops trained in FIBUA,agreed? -
agreed. one point to take note. REALISTIC TRAINING.
we need simunitions!!! -
if our battles are fought here, we have lost already.
-
That's right...Originally posted by kopiosatu:if our battles are fought here, we have lost already.
-
That's when a pre-emptive first strike comes about.
-
Training is never enough but, no, the plan isn't for the combat-arm divisions to fight within S'pore.
It's the PDF brigades who're supposed to be 2nd-line troops here. More FIBUA exercises for the latter bunch? By all means, carry on ... -
Nowadays, a lot of wars is no longer fought in jungles, but fibua or urban areas.Originally posted by kopiosatu:if our battles are fought here, we have lost already.
So Fibua is now a very important aspect all respectable army. -
Yup,totally agree with storywolf.Combat in this modern day and age is about FIBUA/Urban Combat and Information Warfare.
Seldom are wars fought in the jungle.Although it does serve a role,it has somewhat diminished since WW2.every member of the SAF should have be trained to a acceptable level of proficiency of FIBUA to ensure survivability.New techniques should be thought too.Together with more realistic training.
-
What you guys need is a trainning area like Ft. Bragg, Range 37 MTC or mout SHUGART-GORDON, or the FBI's & United States Marine Corps Base at Quantico, Virginia.Originally posted by palmerised:agreed. one point to take note. REALISTIC TRAINING.
we need simunitions!!!
-
ahh john you hit right on the spot.. i love you man
-
Uh hmm.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Yup,totally agree with storywolf.Combat in this modern day and age is about FIBUA/Urban Combat and Information Warfare.
Seldom are wars fought in the jungle.Although it does serve a role,it has somewhat diminished since WW2.every member of the SAF should have be trained to a acceptable level of proficiency of FIBUA to ensure survivability.New techniques should be thought too.Together with more realistic training.
It may have something to do with the PLACE the war was fought in.
Did you somehow manage to forget about the Vietnam War?
The early parts of it were jungle all the way, till much later.
When you use "Every Member" do recall for a moment the hordes of reservists. Those trained so long ago. Retrain all of them? Hmm.
I refer you to the most recently concluded war. Namely Gulf War II / Afghanistan II.
Hey, there were a whole lot of buildings in Afghanistan for them to FIBUA in. -
Last i looked, we still had plenty of areas with tall long thingies that had leaves and bark on them.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Anyone has anything to say about the FIBUA conducted in SG?Feel that not enough is done to ensure our troops have been sufficiently trained in FIBUA here.
SG is typically urban,and any decisive battles fought here will depend on how well are the troops trained in FIBUA,agreed?
If you notice, there are recurring incidents of "interesting" things going on in such areas.
If such "interesting" things can go on, and by not-so-literate people, what about trained personnel?
Maybe, just maybe when you go for your NS then you'd know what really is being done to train our soldiers.
Until then, read the news.
Oh, and last i looked, BMT still consisted of a lot of jungle field Exercise, not urban field exercise. -
if we need to fight here we've already lost? who ever said anything about it being faught on singapore soil. still got johor
can kope some pirated vcds on the way too. -
Keep an open mind, you can't predict where & when the enemy would strike, so you've got to be trained in all kinds of surroundings.Originally posted by branzzz:if we need to fight here we've already lost? who ever said anything about it being faught on singapore soil. still got johor can kope some pirated vcds on the way too. -
let's look at the terrain of the countries surrounding us.Originally posted by storywolf:Nowadays, a lot of wars is no longer fought in jungles, but fibua or urban areas.
So Fibua is now a very important aspect all respectable army.
like i said, if war ends up here, we'll all just die fighting. -
I'm not saying that Jungle Warfare is not important.In which part of my post did I ever say that?All that I am saying is that,we must place more emphasis on the important aspect of FIBUA.Singapore being so heavily built up,do you expect the enemy to purposely wage war only in Bukit Timah Nature reserve or McRitchie Reserviour?With more emphasis on Urban fightings,the soldier has a higher chance of survival.In the jungle,it is easy to brek contact,but have you considered the difficulties in breaking contact in a heavily urbanised area?
Running out on the streets will get you sniped from every possible direction.
You may be seperated from the enemy by only a few centimetres of concrete and yet not know it.Lastly,I did not say that Afghan has plenty of buildings.Look at Iraq,how long has the fearsome American war machine been stuck outside Fallujah waiting for peace talks,negotations and they are finally preping up to go in.Even an Army which goes into conflict every few years has their balls shrink with the mention of FIBUA.What else for an army which has not drawn blood at all like SG? -
Why the more emphasis on FIBUA, when we do not in the first place ever want to be invaded? Anyway rest assured that the army is doing quite alot of FIBUA already.Originally posted by SpecOps87:I'm not saying that Jungle Warfare is not important.In which part of my post did I ever say that?All that I am saying is that,we must place more emphasis on the important aspect of FIBUA.Singapore being so heavily built up,do you expect the enemy to purposely wage war only in Bukit Timah Nature reserve or McRitchie Reserviour?With more emphasis on Urban fightings,the soldier has a higher chance of survival.In the jungle,it is easy to brek contact,but have you considered the difficulties in breaking contact in a heavily urbanised area? -
The world have changes, it is already a few decade ago that vietnam war happen. Look at vietnam, china, 5- 10 years ago those are farm lands, now they are towns and cities. The world have became more populated and landscape have change.Originally posted by Johnston:Uh hmm.
It may have something to do with the PLACE the war was fought in.
Did you somehow manage to forget about the Vietnam War?
The early parts of it were jungle all the way, till much later.
When you use "Every Member" do recall for a moment the hordes of reservists. Those trained so long ago. Retrain all of them? Hmm.
I refer you to the most recently concluded war. Namely Gulf War II / Afghanistan II.
Hey, there were a whole lot of buildings in Afghanistan for them to FIBUA in.
Fibua have became important, yes there is still jungle, but do you expect enemy to just walk out of the whole town and city to hide in the jungle to fight you ? they will you everywhere. And Fibua is nowaday very important. -
Why not enough done for FIBUA training? There are units tasked for its expected operational roles...............Which unit did you serve in?Originally posted by SpecOps87:Anyone has anything to say about the FIBUA conducted in SG?Feel that not enough is done to ensure our troops have been sufficiently trained in FIBUA here.
SG is typically urban,and any decisive battles fought here will depend on how well are the troops trained in FIBUA,agreed? -
I LEFT U RIGHT...
Training can be realistic, but training safety cannot be compromised...
-
I have look at the terrain of countries around us. The question is have you ?Originally posted by kopiosatu:let's look at the terrain of the countries surrounding us.
like i said, if war ends up here, we'll all just die fighting.
There been huge changes, 10 year ago, we used to joke that whenever we got lost in night boat nagivation, go for the bright lights city, that is Singapore. Nowaday, you better triple check, your nagivation devices, as you will most likely to end up in Johore instead.
The whole asia had change. Please don't assume that people in neighbourhood are all living in jungle still. A very large proprotion are staying in cities and towns.
This change the concept of warfare, as gone are the days when people stay in kampongs and jungle. Our friends in other countries are most properly like us, living in towns and cities never really stepping into jungles or even planations. At least for us we still get NS.
Yes gone are the kampong days. Here is the days of cities which are worth everything to protect. Change in modern warfare, like tanks, artilleries which need supplies and open space to use fully their power. You don't bring tanks and modern fighting machine to fight it out in jungle, it totally restricted their movement and give enemy the advantage. Also moving modern huge figthing machines into the jungle, leave too many tell tales signs like new tracks and road which let enemy know of your new position and ask to be bombed.
The concept nowadays is like get the cities, towns and villages - all major fibua, as enemy will not abandon them to go to jungle. Once those are secure, you cut of any major arm effort, as you have cut off all resupply of fuels, ammo, food, medicine. The war now turn to small infantry rebel forces in the jungle. Take a lesson of how the british government fight the communist and insurgents, that will soon leave the small rebel forces everyday spending more time on surival instead of fighting. The jungle is cruel, they will soon be reduce to incapable of even fighting from lack of food, medicine.
Fibua thus will be the new era in fighting, while jungle fighting although important will not be the same in vietnam era, due to the change of people lifestyle, environment and the changes in new military concept.
Please don't use vietnam which is 30+ year ago as a example of how jungle fighting won the war, the war was lost by stupid policys. I mean it is decade ago, with the new improvement in military. You could find the vietnam war will be a whole different thing. Imagine, with now a outpost fitted with auto-grenade launchers with air burst type of grenades, that sure change the whole mass attack things or the vietcom or NVA to a change. -
i have seen the terrain around us to still take my stand.Originally posted by storywolf:I have look at the terrain of countries around us. The question is have you ?
There been huge changes, 10 year ago, we used to joke that whenever we got lost in night boat nagivation, go for the bright lights city, that is Singapore. Nowaday, you better triple check, your nagivation devices, as you will most likely to end up in Johore instead.
The whole asia had change. Please don't assume that people in neighbourhood are all living in jungle still. A very large proprotion are staying in cities and towns.
This change the concept of warfare, as gone are the days when people stay in kampongs and jungle. Our friends in other countries are most properly like us, living in towns and cities never really stepping into jungles or even planations. At least for us we still get NS.
Yes gone are the kampong days. Here is the days of cities which are worth everything to protect. Change in modern warfare, like tanks, artilleries which need supplies and open space to use fully their power. You don't bring tanks and modern fighting machine to fight it out in jungle, it totally restricted their movement and give enemy the advantage. Also moving modern huge figthing machines into the jungle, leave too many tell tales signs like new tracks and road which let enemy know of your new position and ask to be bombed.
The concept nowadays is like get the cities, towns and villages - all major fibua, as enemy will not abandon them to go to jungle. Once those are secure, you cut of any major arm effort, as you have cut off all resupply of fuels, ammo, food, medicine. The war now turn to small infantry rebel forces in the jungle. Take a lesson of how the british government fight the communist and insurgents, that will soon leave the small rebel forces everyday spending more time on surival instead of fighting. The jungle is cruel, they will soon be reduce to incapable of even fighting from lack of food, medicine.
Fibua thus will be the new era in fighting, while jungle fighting although important will not be the same in vietnam era, due to the change of people lifestyle, environment and the changes in new military concept.
Please don't use vietnam which is 30+ year ago as a example of how jungle fighting won the war, the war was lost by stupid policys. I mean it is decade ago, with the new improvement in military. You could find the vietnam war will be a whole different thing. Imagine, with now a outpost fitted with auto-grenade launchers with air burst type of grenades, that sure change the whole mass attack things or the vietcom or NVA to a change. -
Some School's NCC Contingent.Originally posted by bcoy:Why not enough done for FIBUA training? There are units tasked for its expected operational roles...............Which unit did you serve in?
Details not wanted, and unnecessary. -
Unfortunately nobody here has access to some orbital imagery.
Settle for us the answer: How much urban area left in the region versus jungle? -
Originally posted by SpecOps87:
The fearsome American war machine, if really angry, can turn that city into a parking lot and send in Marines to paint the lines after it cools down.
[b]I'm not saying that Jungle Warfare is not important.In which part of my post did I ever say that?All that I am saying is that,we must place more emphasis on the important aspect of FIBUA.Singapore being so heavily built up,do you expect the enemy to purposely wage war only in Bukit Timah Nature reserve or McRitchie Reserviour?With more emphasis on Urban fightings,the soldier has a higher chance of survival.In the jungle,it is easy to brek contact,but have you considered the difficulties in breaking contact in a heavily urbanised area?
Running out on the streets will get you sniped from every possible direction.
You may be seperated from the enemy by only a few centimetres of concrete and yet not know it.Lastly,I did not say that Afghan has plenty of buildings.Look at Iraq,how long has the fearsome American war machine been stuck outside Fallujah waiting for peace talks,negotations and they are finally preping up to go in.[b]
Pray tell what is the important aspect of FIBUA?
Oh, i don't know, both the areas are mighty big, and if you know just how to walk, you will stumble into SAF training area.
Big enough to conceal lots of fun things.
The fearsome Soviet war machine, on the other hand, didn't talk too much before they sent in the tanks.
I refer you to a quote by Winston Churchill. Not the exact one, but the idea is there.
Why should we always be Gentlemen, and tie our own hands by behaving civilly when the Enemy, by virtue of being the Enemy, can do as he pleases?
The USA is still a democractic nation, mind. And they did cancel the draft.