How to defeat the SOF/STAR
-
Yep i am the downer here.Originally posted by sidestep1984:oh dont be such a downer...no need to spoil other people's fun..
Sorry but it is the truth, it just make no sense that a groups of military experts staging the event of the century, go into a dark tunnel with out so much of gas mask or NVGs.
Also that bring it to another level of new concept thinking of orginal ideas, let rasie the level and see we may have some very good ideals to how to breach the enemy that is so well prepared that conventional methods may not work. -
Er! What about the recent robber? Don't you think he should've been prepared for the cop in the bank?Originally posted by storywolf:If someone dare to take on the SOP/Star, they would have plan for smoke and NVG.
They would have gas mask & nVGs too, please stop treating them like idiots ot lazy bums who don't plan for all methods and that they are not resourceful.
Anyway, there are many factors why a terrorist groups might take on a mission even when they are not fully equipped. Eg, lack of financial fundings, security to target too tight to get the equipment through, etc.
-
provided they can get access to claymores and know how to set them properly. maybe they didn't read the bold text on the curved panel and put the 'longer' side portion facing them.Originally posted by storywolf:NVG can be defeated by strong flashes, but the lastest one will have filters but that will still cost the lost of a few seconds. That where the counter blood traps come in, thunderflashes in the tunnels where the kill zone is set. Usually the kill zone will have claymore and explosive. Thus you can never have a overwhelming number to swarm as limited by the tunnel which allow the enemy to concentrate fire with very small squad, also there be fall back defensive position, which will sure to stop the swarm momentum.
as i have said, will have recce to check for traps and send intel....nobody will just storm the train without sufficient intel. -
just imagine the bag u gotta carry pass the MRT control station...lol....Originally posted by chunyong:provided they can get access to claymores and know how to set them properly. maybe they didn't read the bold text on the curved panel and put the 'longer' side portion facing them.
as i have said, will have recce to check for traps and send intel....nobody will just storm the train without sufficient intel.
wat if they hijack NEL MRTs?...
hehehehe
Dear Mr Computer...can u please stop...i am here to hijack u -
Our SOF/STAR do practised storming a train or a station. The SCDF will be receiving a scrap train soon for practising putting out fire. What more ihfo you want?Originally posted by SpecOps87:Hi guys,one interesting topic for thought.Can anyone share ways to defeat and counter the SOF's moves?
Scenario:An MRT train in the middle of two stations.You have taken over the MRT with a bunch of tangos,all of you are heavily armed with weapons/equipment of your choice and C4/Semtex explosives.You have placed Claymore anti-personnel mines along the tracks heading towards the train on both ends of the train. All of you are also wearing body armour and ballistic helmets.
Now,you receive news that an attack by the SOF or STAR is imminent.What are you going to do? -
Just place ur smoke nades and thunderflashes etc to be activated by a button, and place 2 mgs behind that. Concealed of course.
Then when the SOF ppl come in, press the button, and auto gun them down
-
Recent robber case is a classical idot. Not a good example for as toy gun. Everyone knows there is a armed guard in the bank. Our idiot robber, ran inside when the guard is upstairs, letting the guard time to thing as he came down, and of course idiot pay for it. In real life, if you look at all professional robberies oversea, they alway make sure, the moment they enter, the guard is alway in the clear, which they will be able to take him out first.Originally posted by John Ching:Er! What about the recent robber? Don't you think he should've been prepared for the cop in the bank?
Anyway, there are many factors why a terrorist groups might take on a mission even when they are not fully equipped. Eg, lack of financial fundings, security to target too tight to get the equipment through, etc.
Yes there is a lot of factors that terrorist groups may take on soemthing when they are not fully equipped. that I totally agreed. -
That what I am staying stop assuming they are idiots, and don't even know how to read !!!Originally posted by chunyong:provided they can get access to claymores and know how to set them properly. maybe they didn't read the bold text on the curved panel and put the 'longer' side portion facing them.
as i have said, will have recce to check for traps and send intel....nobody will just storm the train without sufficient intel.
I bet a lot of american would joke that the terrorist will not be able to read the signs enough to even find and board the planes. But after 9-11, they have prove themselves capable of finance, co-ordination, resources to hijacking of 4 planes together and by the way they can learn to read, and even fly the planes. Till the planes smashed into building what is impossible interm of co-ordination, resources, knowledge now is possible.
And start assuming people have them and know how to use them then even out soldiers. Also stop assuming that people are just going to have a open house and let your recce team crawl into the tunnel to do recce.
People would have been waiting for that recce team, to take them out to demoralised and also send the message, we are professional, don't even try. -
well, then see whose .308 is more accurate and faster liao....Originally posted by storywolf:That what I am staying stop assuming they are idiots, and don't even know how to read !!!
I bet a lot of american would joke that the terrorist will not be able to read the signs enough to even find and board the planes. But after 9-11, they have prove themselves capable of finance, co-ordination, resources to hijacking of 4 planes together and by the way they can learn to read, and even fly the planes. Till the planes smashed into building what is impossible interm of co-ordination, resources, knowledge now is possible.
And start assuming people have them and know how to use them then even out soldiers. Also stop assuming that people are just going to have a open house and let your recce team crawl into the tunnel to do recce.
People would have been waiting for that recce team, to take them out to demoralised and also send the message, we are professional, don't even try.
-
Not really, for these cases, it is who is smarter and better prepared.Originally posted by chunyong:well, then see whose .308 is more accurate and faster liao.... -
man you guys assume too much... anyway, our HR units do train for tubular assaults such as buses, trains etc. observe opsec and persec please, but dont think anyone would release unit SOPs. anyway what happened to sbsk.. so long never see him..
-
Originally posted by storywolf:Not really, for these cases, it is who is smarter and better prepared.
-
Indeed.SBSK is gone.Why, no one knows..Originally posted by palmerised:man you guys assume too much... anyway, our HR units do train for tubular assaults such as buses, trains etc. observe opsec and persec please, but dont think anyone would release unit SOPs. anyway what happened to sbsk.. so long never see him.. -
I mean guys,you gotta look at it this way,before Sept 11,who on earth would have thought of slamming a fuel-laden aircraft into a building to send a message that Terrorism will always be around?Honestly,no one but those creative people in Afghan who are essentially seen as a 3-World people.Although it did not succeed in bringing the US Military or the entire nation as a whole to its knees,can anyone be certain that they won't get creative of ramming something else and cause massive damage?The fact here is that you CAN'T.Thats why,each and every citizen should be prepared and ready for whatever crap those tangos decide to throw at us.
So far in my given scenario,several of you have said that the only way is to surrender to the SOF/Star,but have you thought of this?What if one day,they are going against tangos who are ex-Special Forces/have military experience and are trained to think the way all CT units will think?Terrorists are everyone and noone.They can be someone you love and they can also be someone whom you feel would never do such things.
And to be honest with some who posted that the only way to defeat the situation is to do it the Russian Security Forces way,which is to go in,kill every single thing that moves in the train or use Valium sleeping gas,then what will you have at the end of the day?A massive massacre.Why?Simply because the tangos inside have gas-masks,and are preped up for any type of assault coming their way.And do you think a train ful of dead innocents are an acceptable result due to an offensive on the part of the security forces?The SG SOF and Star are shaped like our western CT counter-parts.A successful mission is in actual fact minimal damage to property and innocent lives but a maximum damage to the tangos.And that is the only acceptable outcome.
Not forgetting,the 21st century terrorist is a willing matyr.Are our SOF/Star troopers willing to give up all and take on these mean dirtbags?You may claim that the Singapore SOF has already proven itself in the SQ hijacking by going in and killing those tangos who manage to takeover the plane with knives.But have they faced a full-in-the-face fireflight yet?You know the definitive answer.
The only way to defeat tangos in this day and age is to fight them using their way.Small team tactics,divide and conquer.With the least effort,obtain maximum results.Only by fighting them using their own rules do we stand a chance in winning and getting back a safer society.
Lastly,the fact about NVGs is that as some have posted,they have a control which limits the maximum amplification of the NVGs.Okay,so lets say the authorities decide to cut power to the train and its surroundings,total darkness right?Now,these tangos having rigged up the halogen lamps wait till the entire force is within the specified killzone,presses ther button and illuminate the whole killzone.Do you know what effect we get here?Its like shooting at sillhoutte targets,pure and simple.Don't tell me that the troopers can take out the lights,but do you think they can do so when they are engaged in a balls-to-the wall fire-fight?In any gunfight,research has shown that all operators do the same thing,they react and fight back by sheer instinct and the drills that have been drummed into them.They simply do not think,what is going through their minds is so fast,its zapping along.When times like this,pure survival instinct takes over.
Enough said,I would like all who are reading this,to know that I am against terrorism all the way and that I am a strong believable of being ready for the unexpected.Then can we live to fight another day in this long conflict. -
You all make nvgs sound so shiok liddat.
-
To be honest I really salute the guys over at the Combat engineers who do CBRE.See them training in full kit,wearing gas masks and doing PT/playing bball and all that.If the time comes,I think they will react splendidly as they have settled to their operational gear and are used to it.Do SOF/STAR troopers don their gear and train with them by doing PT etc...?I dun think so...
-
People .. what if a few days later this scenario really happen? Will this forum be the prime suspect?
Ops Leader - "S-H-I-T .. they have claymore mines outside the train! What should we do?"
Passer by - "Hurhur .. surf sgForums Military Nuts for an answer." -
Icemoon....if that actually happens,i think I will kena from the ISD as Prime Suspect siahz....
Anyway,if they are so pro...they should have a few tricks up their sleeves we don't know of. -
Come to think of it, why must SOF/STAR be the saviour of the day? After 9-11, flight passengers have no qualm battling it out with the terrorists on the plane, since they know doom is imminent. Perhaps our MRT passengers are like that also?
Maybe that day Military Nuts happen to have an outing and people like SpecOps87, chunyong, sidestep1984, storywolf all in the train. Then add in commandos like lion02, Gendaken etc. So when you all hear the terrorist plan, all shake your head. Even chunyong, who seems to be "in the know", also shake his head and mutter "our STAR cannot pull this off, definitely". And the commandos suddenly admit "Our SOF never execute this kind of rescue mission succesfully before."
Then how? All suddenly become very garang and fight it out with the terrorists? -
hoot arh!!!!Originally posted by Icemoon:Come to think of it, why must SOF/STAR be the saviour of the day? After 9-11, flight passengers have no qualm battling it out with the terrorists on the plane, since they know doom is imminent. Perhaps our MRT passengers are like that also?
Maybe that day Military Nuts happen to have an outing and people like SpecOps87, chunyong, sidestep1984, storywolf all in the train. Then add in commandos like lion02, Gendaken etc. So when you all hear the terrorist plan, all shake your head. Even chunyong, who seems to be "in the know", also shake his head and mutter "our STAR cannot pull this off, definitely". And the commandos suddenly admit "Our SOF never execute this kind of rescue mission succesfully before."
Then how? All suddenly become very garang and fight it out with the terrorists?
breaks chairs....lai!!!lai!!!lai!!!! -
Haha...Icemoon,if the passengers chiong these ARMED tangos they must have realised that the Tangos only have a limited number of rounds,so might as well chiong them.Then again...it would be pretty desperate by then.
BTW,to all you folks who think that the NVGs and Themal imagers might stand a chance of looking through the smoke screen laid downed,remember the MRT trains do carry Fire Extinguishers?Now what if besides the smoke grenades,I use the powder from the fire extinguishers to spray into the surrounding...do you think that the NVGs and thermals can still see throught them?I bet not!!!
Every equipment has its limitations...so...it all boils down to the operator,not the equipment he ueses.Chunyong,how would you react if you were in therE? -
i won't be in there cos i don't take mrt as long as i can avoid as i don't wanna SMRT to bleed me dry from the price hike dat happens almost too often.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Haha...Icemoon,if the passengers chiong these ARMED tangos they must have realised that the Tangos only have a limited number of rounds,so might as well chiong them.Then again...it would be pretty desperate by then.
BTW,to all you folks who think that the NVGs and Themal imagers might stand a chance of looking through the smoke screen laid downed,remember the MRT trains do carry Fire Extinguishers?Now what if besides the smoke grenades,I use the powder from the fire extinguishers to spray into the surrounding...do you think that the NVGs and thermals can still see throught them?I bet not!!!
Every equipment has its limitations...so...it all boils down to the operator,not the equipment he ueses.Chunyong,how would you react if you were in therE?
i can walk to ntu and to nie and back home with ease. i am a walking machine. -
You just never see so don't assume.Originally posted by SpecOps87:To be honest I really salute the guys over at the Combat engineers who do CBRE.See them training in full kit,wearing gas masks and doing PT/playing bball and all that.If the time comes,I think they will react splendidly as they have settled to their operational gear and are used to it.Do SOF/STAR troopers don their gear and train with them by doing PT etc...?I dun think so... -
assumption is the mother of all foul ups...
-
if you're suay enf u get at least 1 company of NSmen in the train.....or worse u get NS commandos!!Originally posted by SpecOps87:Haha...Icemoon,if the passengers chiong these ARMED tangos they must have realised that the Tangos only have a limited number of rounds,so might as well chiong them.Then again...it would be pretty desperate by then.
BTW,to all you folks who think that the NVGs and Themal imagers might stand a chance of looking through the smoke screen laid downed,remember the MRT trains do carry Fire Extinguishers?Now what if besides the smoke grenades,I use the powder from the fire extinguishers to spray into the surrounding...do you think that the NVGs and thermals can still see throught them?I bet not!!!
Every equipment has its limitations...so...it all boils down to the operator,not the equipment he ueses.Chunyong,how would you react if you were in therE?