Irony of Arms Manufacturers......I wonder why...
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*save me trouble*Originally posted by Johnston:The long and short of the whole supply thing is that...
One weapon = one system to support it.
Parts, ammunition, documentation, training, all that.
All this costs MONEY.
Two weapons = twice the cost.
And if it uses a different ammo, ammo resupply must be counted in also.
So consider this: a Platoon armed with 7.62mm MGs, 5.56mm rifles, 9mm/.45 pistols, 40mm GLs, assorted heavy support systems such as 84mm RR, 67mm LAW...
Requires SEVEN types of ammunition resupply.
The strain is already hard enough on the poor storemen and armourers, do you think they want more? Not to mention you need to factor in special ammo types.
5.56 AP/Tracer, 40mm HE/Smk, 84mm RR rounds.
So with the above post as an example, let us examine what different parts exist between a M16S1 and an M4 carbine.
Accordingly, the difference between
Models 614S and 720
are as follows.
Telescopic butt-stock.
Shorter barrel length.
Various other small teeny-tiny things.
But as it is, the two main difference mean that the armorers and storemen will have to maintain, fix, and indent an wholly different part stock than a unit which uses M16s.
Furthermore, if the unit uses a different weapon for drivers/service personnel such as the MP5k or FN P90, a wholly different ammunition stock and part stock will need to be maintain.
In simple mathematical terms.
To support one weapon = 1 $.
3 weapons = 1 + 1 + 1 = 3.
That is 3 $. -
Because it has happened before.Originally posted by deathscythe99:U sound pretty senior in rank/age in SAF huh....
'Cos this is not the first time I heard that...and now that you say it....
It's been talked about.
Reported on.
Taken as case studies.
I am not very senior in rank or age, but i am pretty senior in terms of documents read.
Happens when you junk a lot of documents you know? -
Yes i trust you understand the limitations. But not the other stuff.Originally posted by SpecOps87:I do understand the limitations of carbines,and thats their short range and their accuracy tends to drop at longer ranges compared to full-sized rifles..But that's not the whole picture here.You see the fact is that carbines i meantioned,are not entirely a seperate weapons system.The M16,M4 and Car-15 all accept the same magazines,the way it is cocked is the same,the way rate of fire is selected is the same,the way IAs are cleared is the same.The essential difference is the weapon length,the ability for the butt-stock to be extended or retracted and the handguard is rounded.
Here, i shall dissect your post again.
"recce troopers,infantry,guards,commandos,Armoured crews and SF personnel (NDU/SOF) right?So isn't it strange...the only people I see who sometimes use such weapons are those in SIW or Armourers..."
To recap:
Recce: YOUR JOB IS RECCE! NOT FIGH!
Infantry: You may have to engage in FIBUA!
Guards: You may have to heli-rappel! And engage in FIBUA!
Commandoes: You may have to lug your equipment ungodly amounts of kilometers! And engage in FIBUA!
Armor crews: There's not much space in there, and we're already spending money on your vehicle. Why not spend more for your weapon? You might just survive to come back.
SOF personnel: You may have to engage in FIBUA!
Additionally:
"The M16,M4 and Car-15 all accept the same magazines,the way it is cocked is the same,the way rate of fire is selected is the same,the way IAs are cleared is the same.The essential difference is the weapon length,the ability for the butt-stock to be extended or retracted and the handguard is rounded"
They are all the same. I concur.
But the PARTS are not the same. To put a metaphor forward, you are similar to your neighbour. But are you 100% identical?
If you can tell me how:
Respectively those weapons are from top to bottom:
G36C
G36K + G36C
G36.
Now can i maintain all 3 weapon systems in a unit without paying for 3 different part stocks? -
Not sure what the big fuss over carbine and full length rifle ! Just a few damn inches.
If you can shoot, rifle or carbine you will shoot and kill. If you bobo shooter !!! give you RPG also no used. As long as you have a weapon, rifle or carbine, just make the best of it. If don't like it, you just have to find another better one off the battlefield !. -
precisely.....well...the fuss is why the SAF in all its infinite wisdom arm support and drivers with the AR-15....Originally posted by storywolf:Not sure what the big fuss over carbine and full length rifle ! Just a few damn inches.
If you can shoot, rifle or carbine you will shoot and kill. If you bobo shooter !!! give you RPG also no used. As long as you have a weapon, rifle or carbine, just make the best of it. If don't like it, you just have to find another better one off the battlefield !.
we're just stating the fact that it would be a logistical and financial nightmare just to arm the mentioned groups of people with such weapons.... -
Also frontline troops always get what they want and the rear troops get whatever is left.If the Frontliners prefer a carbine then they get the carbine....whatever is left goes to the rear people...and that usually means M16s
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Well you cannot make everyone happy !Originally posted by |-|05|:Also frontline troops always get what they want and the rear troops get whatever is left.If the Frontliners prefer a carbine then they get the carbine....whatever is left goes to the rear people...and that usually means M16s
The time when people want a carbine, is when they want a lighter weapon and something special and cooler looking than the standard issues rifle.
But as one very experience vietnam SGt once say "Son, when you meet the enemy, you be wishing for a rifle with more range than a carbine instead, to shoot that bastart as far away as possible" ! -
Yep we does not have that luxury.Originally posted by sidestep1984:precisely.....well...the fuss is why the SAF in all its infinite wisdom arm support and drivers with the AR-15....
we're just stating the fact that it would be a logistical and financial nightmare just to arm the mentioned groups of people with such weapons....
Frankly, it is a M16 is better than a carbine, as it have more range. Also, if I am a support personal, I would go for M16 instead of carbine, why I would want to shoot any enemy as far a possible first, they better not even get near me for close engagment. -
It's a logistical nightmare to have too many different types of arms available in the Army...Really. On one hand as someone outside the technical field, you may say that there's a need to arm different types of weapons for different types of ppl, but well, having a wpn is better off than having none
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Nope, there's a difference.Originally posted by storywolf:Not sure what the big fuss over carbine and full length rifle ! Just a few damn inches.
If you can shoot, rifle or carbine you will shoot and kill. If you bobo shooter !!! give you RPG also no used. As long as you have a weapon, rifle or carbine, just make the best of it. If don't like it, you just have to find another better one off the battlefield !.
Ok, so let's give the bobo shooter a 30mm Gatling and way too much ammo.
Darn right he can hit something.
Or we can always put him behind the gunner's position of a Vulcan SPAAG.