Say good bye to A4SU.
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I think having a sub-sonic plane doing CAS or SEAD is suididal unless you have the A-10.We will not have the A-10.So the best alternative to a heavily armored plane is one with tremendous intitial thrust to evade VSHORADs and other low-lying SAMs.Originally posted by baer:Am very suprized if anyone has same idea as me that F-15 is air superority fighter. A4SU is ground attack a/c. Why even consider F-15 (whether E of T version) to be a bombs jockey?
When I need air-ground support I rather have a reliable A-10 or A-8 rumbling at sub-sonic precision then a F-15 which I am sure would be happier as top-cover instead of on the deck amoung the muck. Its like having a ferrari making pizza delivery, nice but overkill?
My vote goes to the eurofighter (design from onset as multi-tasked, not mid-life design looking for second career). -
AC-130
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Not this again?Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:AC-130 -
Oh God..*Sighs in resignation*Here we go again...
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I really doubt we would be looking for "Proven" designs. Since we have no experience operating these "proven" designs anyway. If that was really our main criteria for purchase, we might as well buy F-4 Phantoms. With a record of 280-air to air victories, and 200 anti - air sites under its belt, its VERY PROVEN.
In anycase, it seems that the F-16 series have been ruled out. We are looking for "NEXT GENERATION", to the avg simple Singaporeans who cant tell F-16s from Tomcats, buying another "F-16" type would hardly be "NEXT GENERATION."
Personally, I don't favor the Mudhens. Sure they have proven themselves in combat. And they did pack in some new "technology", an old hen will still be an old hen. Sooner or later, it's not gonna lay eggs anymore. So Strike Eagle is out, IMO.
What I believe is that, RSAF is strongly considering the Typhoon. That is why its holding out so long, to evaluate the Typhoon further. With an RCS only bettered by the F-22, perhaps F-35 in the future, it will provide RSAF with a new edge over regional "Potential" adversaries. Of course, it is by no means a fully stealthed aircraft. What is uncertain now is, will the Typhoon blow through?
If it doesn't there is always the Rafale. It does look pretty... -
SBSK IS BACK!!! hahaha..
yes spectre gunships!! ahh how sweet the sound of the portside guns firing..
anyway i would love it if we got the eurofighter.. -
Nope... I think you didn't know abt the Typhoon's special case... It wasn't on show in the Asian Aerospace, there was only the flight mock up... EF2000 will be a costly plane if we later on use the better F-35...Originally posted by Shotgun:I really doubt we would be looking for "Proven" designs. Since we have no experience operating these "proven" designs anyway. If that was really our main criteria for purchase, we might as well buy F-4 Phantoms. With a record of 280-air to air victories, and 200 anti - air sites under its belt, its VERY PROVEN.
In anycase, it seems that the F-16 series have been ruled out. We are looking for "NEXT GENERATION", to the avg simple Singaporeans who cant tell F-16s from Tomcats, buying another "F-16" type would hardly be "NEXT GENERATION."
Personally, I don't favor the Mudhens. Sure they have proven themselves in combat. And they did pack in some new "technology", an old hen will still be an old hen. Sooner or later, it's not gonna lay eggs anymore. So Strike Eagle is out, IMO.
What I believe is that, RSAF is strongly considering the Typhoon. That is why its holding out so long, to evaluate the Typhoon further. With an RCS only bettered by the F-22, perhaps F-35 in the future, it will provide RSAF with a new edge over regional "Potential" adversaries. Of course, it is by no means a fully stealthed aircraft. What is uncertain now is, will the Typhoon blow through?
If it doesn't there is always the Rafale. It does look pretty...
Strike Eagle has been proven in war -
The EF is conceived as a Air superiority fighter. But with the end of the cold war, there is a greater need for ground attack it is then converted to multi-role. In fact the early batch of EF do not have any ground attack capability at all. For example its forward canards actually restricts the pilots' downward view!Originally posted by baer:Am very suprized if anyone has same idea as me that F-15 is air superority fighter. A4SU is ground attack a/c. Why even consider F-15 (whether E of T version) to be a bombs jockey?
When I need air-ground support I rather have a reliable A-10 or A-8 rumbling at sub-sonic precision then a F-15 which I am sure would be happier as top-cover instead of on the deck amoung the muck. Its like having a ferrari making pizza delivery, nice but overkill?
My vote goes to the eurofighter (design from onset as multi-tasked, not mid-life design looking for second career).
Get your facts straight! -
In fact, EF2000 came too late to complete with F-16... If we get EF, then no point getting F-35Originally posted by spencer99:The EF is conceived as a Air superiority fighter. But with the end of the cold war, there is a greater need for ground attack it is then converted to multi-role. In fact the early batch of EF do not have any ground attack capability at all. For example its forward canards actually restricts the pilots' downward view!
Get your facts straight! -
Think the EF2000 still will be able to outfly and outgun F-35. One thing about Europe stuff is they make very good planes.Originally posted by sbst275:Dun bet on this... They are trying to get rid of Europe also... Might be like Sth Korea's case... Just keep your fingers cross... If we get EF2000, it would be wasteful if it is only used for short term as it may be replaced by F-35 in 2012, 5-6 years after usage -
You sure? Tell me which is stealthy??? Good planes???Originally posted by storywolf:Think the EF2000 still will be able to outfly and outgun F-35. One thing about Europe stuff is they make very good planes.
Then why Rafale made for 16 years never had a export deal
I only recongise Swedish planes as good planes -
One thing is F-35 is still very unknown in term of price or capabilities to the EF2000. F-35 is stealthier by how many % ? But also note the typhoon have even more advance infra detection system ( stealth as does not give radar signature - passive search ) that the US may not have. Also advance helmet sights and new weapons. Who knows maybe the russian stuff have alway been build to counter US, again europe, it is not that effective.Originally posted by sbst275:You sure? Tell me which is stealthy??? Good planes??? Then why Rafale made for 16 years never had a export deal
I only recongise Swedish planes as good planes
Rafale - it enter the service only in 1998 ! where you get your 16 years ! By the way, Dassault build some of the famous Mirage series which is widely use around the world. -
Rafale is 1998??? Papers very ruan, said 1988.... EF2000 have been giving a lot of problems, RAF is not happy with its performance in the radar....Originally posted by storywolf:One thing is F-35 is still very unknown in term of price or capabilities to the EF2000. F-35 is stealthier by how many % ? But also note the typhoon have even more advance infra detection system ( stealth as does not give radar signature - passive search ) that the US may not have. Also advance helmet sights and new weapons. Who knows maybe the russian stuff have alway been build to counter US, again europe, it is not that effective.
Rafale - it enter the service only in 1998 ! where you get your 16 years ! By the way, Dassault build some of the famous Mirage series which is widely use around the world.
Even the countries sometimes quarrel with each other -
Really, I am of the opinion that A-4SU is really quite good for a defensive defense force and should be kept until 2010. I don't see how you people must emphasise that more modern weapons is good.
Look at Switzerland, they only have 34 modern F/A-18C/D, dozens of F-5s (which are really good enough for defence), and dozens more of Mirage III/5s?
So, I really wonder why must we say we whack somebody, such as firing rockets and Mavericks at PTP & Johor. Don't the Malaysians have the same response to us, firing Mavericks, AS.30L/LGB and rockets at our housing estates and industrial centres? Its us ultimately that will get hurt.
Hasn't anybody here felt that we always have this crazy mentality to beat somebody up as if these people are so aggressive, and want to eat us alive. I find this sort of attitude very disturbing, but from reading military nutters. I get the feel that most posters here don't care a dip for their fellow beings. -
But Malaysia have no time against Johor bombings... They dun have AGM-65 if I am not wrongOriginally posted by agsm1:Really, I am of the opinion that A-4SU is really quite good for a defensive defense force and should be kept until 2010. I don't see how you people must emphasise that more modern weapons is good.
Look at Switzerland, they only have 34 modern F/A-18C/D, dozens of F-5s (which are really good enough for defence), and dozens more of Mirage III/5s?
So, I really wonder why must we say we whack somebody, such as firing rockets and Mavericks at PTP & Johor. Don't the Malaysians have the same response to us, firing Mavericks, AS.30L/LGB and rockets at our housing estates and industrial centres? Its us ultimately that will get hurt.
Hasn't anybody here felt that we always have this crazy mentality to beat somebody up as if these people are so aggressive, and want to eat us alive. I find this sort of attitude very disturbing, but from reading military nutters. I get the feel that most posters here don't care a dip for their fellow beings. -
don't be an oxymoron, those missiles seriously needs to pack more power to destroy 10 cm of concrete HDB in comparison to 2cm thick of kampung wood.
enough said.
best said if u try to use AGM-65 mav on 10 metre thick of soil protecting a underground bunker ...and the underground bunker is located beneath a thick concrete HDB building..at least 2 AGM-65 to penetrate through..
Considering there are almost 500,000 HDB flats in singapore...
Malaysia ain't dumb...it will go for those military installations rather then to
earn itself a notorious fame from the UN..
Saab Gripen fighters are still not proven...in any major conflicts... -
Ya lor... JAS-39 is NGF also...Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:don't be an oxymoron, those missiles seriously needs to pack more power to destroy 10 cm of concrete HDB in comparison to 2cm thick of kampung wood.
enough said.
best said if u try to use AGM-65 mav on 10 metre thick of soil protecting a underground bunker ...and the underground bunker is located beneath a thick concrete HDB building..at least 2 AGM-65 to penetrate through..
Considering there are almost 500,000 HDB flats in singapore...
Malaysia ain't dumb...it will go for those military installations rather then to
earn itself a notorious fame from the UN..
Saab Gripen fighters are still not proven...in any major conflicts... -
Whatever the plane it is..i have faith in RSAF..Originally posted by sbst275:Ya lor... JAS-39 is NGF also...
heh heh...
Only hope that last time, there was a few cases of singaporeans involved in corruption or bribery..hope those aircraft industries won't put $$ into our generals pockets to make them award contracts...to a lousy plane.. -
F-15 is good as a stop gap for the F-35...Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Whatever the plane it is..i have faith in RSAF..
heh heh...
Only hope that last time, there was a few cases of singaporeans involved in corruption or bribery..hope those aircraft industries won't put $$ into our generals pockets to make them award contracts...to a lousy plane.. -
Malaysia will definitely use cheap rockets to fire...using guided missiles for a pack of civilian housing is definitely an overkill...
During Tension Period
iF i were malaysian CDF, considering RSAF has bases in Northern thailand,
i would create air base in RIAU and BATAM...
If i can turn back time, i willl stop my country from building petronas, and instead get 18 more SU-30..
base 18 SU-30...and buy russian awacs..operate on Indonesian soil..
Purchase more russian bvr missiles, then get permission from indonesia to fly a circular route. -
Indo and MY ties quite sourOriginally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Malaysia will definitely use cheap rockets to fire...using guided missiles for a pack of civilian housing is definitely an overkill...
During Tension Period
iF i were malaysian CDF, considering RSAF has bases in Northern thailand,
i would create air base in RIAU and BATAM...
If i can turn back time, i willl stop my country from building petronas, and instead get 18 more SU-30..
base 18 SU-30...and buy russian awacs..operate on Indonesian soil..
Purchase more russian bvr missiles, then get permission from indonesia to fly a circular route. -
Considering Indonesian troops, or TNI turned a blind eye towards the anti chinese riots in Jakarta during 1998 , anything will be pretty un-expected...Originally posted by sbst275:Indo and MY ties quite sour
but thats a step malaysia could take...since it might be phasing out it's old planes as well -
haha you know our newspaper folks, alway wrong one lah ! Before the Rafale, the french was selling hard on the mirage 2000, which see a very good sales, in fact it did give F-16 a run for the money.Originally posted by sbst275:Rafale is 1998??? Papers very ruan, said 1988.... EF2000 have been giving a lot of problems, RAF is not happy with its performance in the radar....
Even the countries sometimes quarrel with each other
As for EF2000, yes there been some bad press, also about countries not being able to agree. But in recent months, there is very positive signs that everything is on track, as countries just trying to gain more manufacturing process for their own countries. Also a lot of the blow up is done by the US aivation industry, which clearly see this as a very power threat to their hold.
Take F-14 history, was as bad, with crashes and ....... but it still became the world premier air fighter. F-15 history is also not that great.
Europe have know for very good planes - hunters, lighting, tornado, mirage, jaguar ..... etc. Actually according to some analyst that the dispute of the tyhoon actually have done good, cause it push back for the typhoon to explore and use a lot of new technology which just became available. Imagine, now airbus for the 1st time this year have sales that of passenger planes more than Boeing.
Typhoon system is very amazing, in fact can see the europe side are more daring to put in new technology then the US. It will be a fighter that will play a major role for years to come. Just imagine, we have in future for long term, Tyhoon for air superity role and F35 for ground attack. With the 2 major fighters with a good mix of different technology, sure is going to be hell to want to take on us, for enemy Su30 will never know if they are suddenly bound by typhoon or F35. -
Why must we get a fighter to fill the gap when we can have the more advance typhoon to work side by side with F-35.Originally posted by sbst275:F-15 is good as a stop gap for the F-35... -
EF2000 will cost a heavy burden to RSAF who already has cut in budget... Many replacement cannot be done... EF2000 and F-16 cannot share weapons, in fact, F-15 fits as it can carry AIM-9 and AGM-65 and cluster bombOriginally posted by storywolf:haha you know our newspaper folks, alway wrong one lah ! Before the Rafale, the french was selling hard on the mirage 2000, which see a very good sales, in fact it did give F-16 a run for the money.
As for EF2000, yes there been some bad press, also about countries not being able to agree. But in recent months, there is very positive signs that everything is on track, as countries just trying to gain more manufacturing process for their own countries. Also a lot of the blow up is done by the US aivation industry, which clearly see this as a very power threat to their hold.
Take F-14 history, was as bad, with crashes and ....... but it still became the world premier air fighter. F-15 history is also not that great.
Europe have know for very good planes - hunters, lighting, tornado, mirage, jaguar ..... etc. Actually according to some analyst that the dispute of the tyhoon actually have done good, cause it push back for the typhoon to explore and use a lot of new technology which just became available. Imagine, now airbus for the 1st time this year have sales that of passenger planes more than Boeing.
Typhoon system is very amazing, in fact can see the europe side are more daring to put in new technology then the US. It will be a fighter that will play a major role for years to come. Just imagine, we have in future for long term, Tyhoon for air superity role and F35 for ground attack. With the 2 major fighters with a good mix of different technology, sure is going to be hell to want to take on us, for enemy Su30 will never know if they are suddenly bound by typhoon or F35.