Rationale of GIGN armed with Revolvers
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Hostage thoughts:Originally posted by sidestep1984:a hostage can differentiate bad guys and good guys in half a second...
a policeman must be able to do that even faster....instinct comes into play..
bad guys: those that have kept me here and are pointing guns at me.
good guys: those that are calling "Everybody in there come out, we have you surrronded!"
Hmm. That's real sharp thinking.
It is precisely because police must react fast that airsoft is banned.
If a toy gun painted black can get a officer to shoot, how about a airsoft?
You couldn't tell the difference until you disassembled it. -
yup yup yupOriginally posted by Johnston:Hostage thoughts:
bad guys: those that have kept me here and are pointing guns at me.
good guys: those that are calling "Everybody in there come out, we have you surrronded!"
Hmm. That's real sharp thinking.
It is precisely because police must react fast that airsoft is banned.
If a toy gun painted black can get a officer to shoot, how about a airsoft?
You couldn't tell the difference until you disassembled it.
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are u trying to say that the officer is innocent?Originally posted by SpecOps87:Well...The Isreali incident is this Officer suspect that the little girl is a suicide bomber and emptied his entire carbine at her to neutralise her.Turns out the little ger was clean.
the IDF officer shot the little ger..walk over to her n take a few shot again....walk away n come back n empty his mag on her...
go read the paper....
farking bastard ccb... -
Hmm! Hostages reaction can be quite strange during a hostage situation. For the 1st few hours they might be afraid for the hostage-taker( HT ) but it the HT shows compassion towards the hostages, the hostages would end up defending or proctecting the HT. The 1st time this kind of situation happend was during the Iranian embassy crisis in 1979. When SAS stormed the building & eliminate all the threat, they came across 1 threat that was protected by the hostages.Originally posted by sidestep1984:a hostage can differentiate bad guys and good guys in half a second...
a policeman must be able to do that even faster....instinct comes into play..
Theres actually a medical name for hostages associating with their HT but I just can't seem to recall the name.
Thats why its never a good plan to prolong a hostage situation but human rights ensures that the rights of the HT must also be recognised.
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Revolvers do not jam is a true fact. But its also a fact that revolvers are not accurate. Unlike an auto or semi-auto pistol, the barrel of a revolver cannot be replaced if damaged or tilted.Originally posted by chunyong:revolvers do not jam but sometimes it clicks but the round doesn't discharge....happen b4 while i was still in PA with S&W...my time still using S&W, i POP then Taurus come in.
Like a rifle, prolong usage of any hand gun would require greater care especially in the case of the revolver. This is because the barrel of a revolver is attached to the rest of the weapon & therefore cannot be changed if its damaged. A slight bang of a revolver against a hard surface is lightly to damaged the alinement of the weapon & therefore making it dangerous to use in a HR situation.
Depending on the number of times the revolver has been used, the barrel can be disfigure overtime. Meanning, every time the revolver is fired the barrel is heated & expands, it does not immediately cools back to its normal stage nor does it will. So if you used the revolver more then 50 times or fired more then 100 rounds in a single fire fight, chances of the barrel lossing its alinement is very high.
For a pistol, the gas that causes the recoil of the weapon also acts as a coolant for the barrel but this does not mean that the barrel won't difigure, just that it'll be later. The plus side of a pistol is that if te barrel is damged, it can just be replaced with a new barrel instead of retiring the whole gun like a revolver. -
is the medical name called sympatisers?Originally posted by John Ching:Hmm! Hostages reaction can be quite strange during a hostage situation. For the 1st few hours they might be afraid for the hostage-taker( HT ) but it the HT shows compassion towards the hostages, the hostages would end up defending or proctecting the HT. The 1st time this kind of situation happend was during the Iranian embassy crisis in 1979. When SAS stormed the building & eliminate all the threat, they came across 1 threat that was protected by the hostages.
Theres actually a medical name for hostages associating with their HT but I just can't seem to recall the name.
Thats why its never a good plan to prolong a hostage situation but human rights ensures that the rights of the HT must also be recognised. -
if the frontsight is misaligned just use a mallet hammer it back into place loh...then if the barrel is bent due to the hammering then just hammer until the barrel is straight again. the grooves inside the barrel will be damaged too but as long as the bullet can fly out without hurting your hand then can liaoOriginally posted by John Ching:Revolvers do not jam is a true fact. But its also a fact that revolvers are not accurate. Unlike an auto or semi-auto pistol, the barrel of a revolver cannot be replaced if damaged or tilted.
Like a rifle, prolong usage of any hand gun would require greater care especially in the case of the revolver. This is because the barrel of a revolver is attached to the rest of the weapon & therefore cannot be changed if its damaged. A slight bang of a revolver against a hard surface is lightly to damaged the alinement of the weapon & therefore making it dangerous to use in a HR situation.
Depending on the number of times the revolver has been used, the barrel can be disfigure overtime. Meanning, every time the revolver is fired the barrel is heated & expands, it does not immediately cools back to its normal stage nor does it will. So if you used the revolver more then 50 times or fired more then 100 rounds in a single fire fight, chances of the barrel lossing its alinement is very high.
For a pistol, the gas that causes the recoil of the weapon also acts as a coolant for the barrel but this does not mean that the barrel won't difigure, just that it'll be later. The plus side of a pistol is that if te barrel is damged, it can just be replaced with a new barrel instead of retiring the whole gun like a revolver. -
Hahaha..! I hope you're not a cop or for that matter a SWAT officer.Originally posted by chunyong:if the frontsight is misaligned just use a mallet hammer it back into place loh...then if the barrel is bent due to the hammering then just hammer until the barrel is straight again. the grooves inside the barrel will be damaged too but as long as the bullet can fly out without hurting your hand then can liao
If everything could be solve with a hammer, you ought to be able to save hostages with a hammer too. -
Frankly, in a firefight, you only can get the most 5 rounds off before everyone is either dear or take covers behind something things ! It is actually the shooting that counts.Originally posted by John Ching:Hmm! I guess the reason has to do with the fact that the GIGN are still cops. Meaning that their duties are to protec lives & not gun crazie frenchy.
Using a revolver ensures a cop does not over-kill his suspect. Think of it, 6 shots over 15 shots to a suspect.
Hehehe! But on a nasty note, its probably has to do with their sorry excuse for manhood. You know the length of the barrel. Heheheh!
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May be with a revolver you can only get off 5 shots.Originally posted by storywolf:Frankly, in a firefight, you only can get the most 5 rounds off before everyone is either dear or take covers behind something things ! It is actually the shooting that counts.
I've heard of a sheriff in states who emptied 15 shots from his pistol at close range & not 1 round hit his target. In fact, the whole incident was shown on Worlds Scariest Police momments.
There was also an anti-terror case in UK where 2 SAS troopers emptied a total of 30 rounds into an IRA at close range, the guy refused to die so another SAS soldier with an MP-5 finished the job. During the latter hearing, the SAS troopers said that they taught that the IRA guy was going to trigger his bomb so they had to make sure he die. -
Stockholm Syndrome.Originally posted by sidestep1984:is the medical name called sympatisers?
palmerised. -
stockholm syndrome is feeling sympathy for enemy and therefore hesitate b4 shooting, apply more for people who is armed rather than hostages.Originally posted by palmerised:Stockholm Syndrome.
palmerised. -
Ah! You're wrong. Stockholm syndrome occurs when a hostage spends too much time with the hostage takers & develope sympathy for the taker & their casue. It does not affect the anti-terror operators or cops for the matter.Originally posted by chunyong:stockholm syndrome is feeling sympathy for enemy and therefore hesitate b4 shooting, apply more for people who is armed rather than hostages.
# In 1973, four Swedes held in a bank vault for six days during a robbery became attached to their captors, a phenomenon dubbed the Stockholm Syndrome. According to psychologists, the abused bond to their abusers as a means to endure violence.
- Timeline50
# Psychological Responses to Terrorism
by Rev. Fr. Charles T. Brusca -
oh ? but i think it applies to all, simply means u show sympathy to the enemy after prolonged duration. most easily affected will be snipers since they can see much further.Originally posted by John Ching:Ah! You're wrong. Stockholm syndrome occurs when a hostage spends too much time with the hostage takers & develope sympathy for the taker & their casue. It does not affect the anti-terror operators or cops for the matter.
# In 1973, four Swedes held in a bank vault for six days during a robbery became attached to their captors, a phenomenon dubbed the Stockholm Syndrome. According to psychologists, the abused bond to their abusers as a means to endure violence.
- Timeline50
# Psychological Responses to Terrorism
by Rev. Fr. Charles T. Brusca -
I'ven't heard of a sniper affected by the syndrome yet granted that it does not mean it won't. Sniper are able to see their targets eyes clearer just before they pull the trigger but they don't actually know their target.Originally posted by chunyong:oh ? but i think it applies to all, simply means u show sympathy to the enemy after prolonged duration. most easily affected will be snipers since they can see much further.
It'll probably affect a sniper if he allows himself to wonder about the personality of his target.
That is why some snipers won't go for the head shot, chosing to go for body shots to avoid looking into the eyes of the target. But I know for certain that the current U.S snipers in Iraq has no problem with going for the head shots. -
facial expression tells all....US will lose more people, more $....its a losing battle they are fighting against.....they don't even have enough armoured humvees now...they even used sand and wood to reinforce their unarmoured humvees and vehicles...pathetic !Originally posted by John Ching:I'ven't heard of a sniper affected by the syndrome yet granted that it does not mean it won't. Sniper are able to see their targets eyes clearer just before they pull the trigger but they don't actually know their target.
It'll probably affect a sniper if he allows himself to wonder about the personality of his target.
That is why some snipers won't go for the head shot, chosing to go for body shots to avoid looking into the eyes of the target. But I know for certain that the current U.S snipers in Iraq has no problem with going for the head shots. -
Hahaha...! You're still comparing the Iraq 'war' with Vietnam war.Originally posted by chunyong:facial expression tells all....US will lose more people, more $....its a losing battle they are fighting against.....they don't even have enough armoured humvees now...they even used sand and wood to reinforce their unarmoured humvees and vehicles...pathetic !
U.S will lose more people as its a war, the militants are lossing even more.
Most of the objectives has already been achieved accept for the planned Iraqi elections. Its the militants that are fighting a lossing battle that they just can't accept.
Logistics slow doesn't mean that there isn't any. Use of sand & wood is a common practice in military trainning unless you've never serve in it to understand using of initiative.
Pathethic are those who still don't see the war as it is. Pathetic are those who still blow themselves up thinking that there'll be 72 virgins waiting for them. Pathethic are those who instead of making Iraq a better place after Saddam decide to leave everything into Allah's will. Pathethic are those green-peace-jokers who knowingly goes to a warring country & gets caught then begs on Islamic TV not to have their heads cut. Etc. -
seems like u didn't see the news from TW...it shows a US army fella sending back to his mum a few photos of a so called armoured humvees made, nothing more than sand and plywood. NVGs and alot of things supposedly provided by the army has to be shipped over to them from the parents, not the army...the soldiers' parents forked out $ to provide better stuff for their sons....isn't this pathetic ? u will be more surprised wat the people at pentagon says abt armoured humvees....haha.Originally posted by John Ching:Hahaha...! You're still comparing the Iraq 'war' with Vietnam war.
U.S will lose more people as its a war, the militants are lossing even more.
Most of the objectives has already been achieved accept for the planned Iraqi elections. Its the militants that are fighting a lossing battle that they just can't accept.
Logistics slow doesn't mean that there isn't any. Use of sand & wood is a common practice in military trainning unless you've never serve in it to understand using of initiative.
Pathethic are those who still don't see the war as it is. Pathetic are those who still blow themselves up thinking that there'll be 72 virgins waiting for them. Pathethic are those who instead of making Iraq a better place after Saddam decide to leave everything into Allah's will. Pathethic are those green-peace-jokers who knowingly goes to a warring country & gets caught then begs on Islamic TV not to have their heads cut. Etc.
basic protection and logistics should be given to troops, there should be no compromise on dat. -
Hey, there was even a soldier who got his mum to sent air-cons over to Iraq, whats new.Originally posted by chunyong:seems like u didn't see the news from TW...it shows a US army fella sending back to his mum a few photos of a so called armoured humvees made, nothing more than sand and plywood. NVGs and alot of things supposedly provided by the army has to be shipped over to them from the parents, not the army...the soldiers' parents forked out $ to provide better stuff for their sons....isn't this pathetic ? u will be more surprised wat the people at pentagon says abt armoured humvees....haha.
basic protection and logistics should be given to troops, there should be no compromise on dat.
Yup! I haven't seen the news but regardless of what was shown, the news is never 100% accurate. The soldier in question is probably scared shitless & hopping that the photos would enable his folks to get him back home or he is another soldier hopping to make a few bucks out of some story for the news.
The Brits also had the same problem & they were having that problem during the first stages of the war. Yet they've over come the problem & they are still in Iraq.
Philippine troops had good body armour & armour vehicles but what did they do when a few Filippinos got caught? They dressed up, look good for the news cameras & flew home. Isn't that pathetic?
Those dicks at the pentagon can said whatever they like about the humvees. They are giving it away, along with other logistics such as black helicopters, etc, to some Asian countries instead of sending it to the troops in Iraq. Its political. -
they rather divert the funds to some other activities than let the funds be utilised for troops in Irzq but some bigshot is auditing the diverting of funds but by the time he finish calculating how much $ has been siphoned away i think the war might be over already.Originally posted by John Ching:Hey, there was even a soldier who got his mum to sent air-cons over to Iraq, whats new.
Yup! I haven't seen the news but regardless of what was shown, the news is never 100% accurate. The soldier in question is probably scared shitless & hopping that the photos would enable his folks to get him back home or he is another soldier hopping to make a few bucks out of some story for the news.
The Brits also had the same problem & they were having that problem during the first stages of the war. Yet they've over come the problem & they are still in Iraq.
Philippine troops had good body armour & armour vehicles but what did they do when a few Filippinos got caught? They dressed up, look good for the news cameras & flew home. Isn't that pathetic?
Those dicks at the pentagon can said whatever they like about the humvees. They are giving it away, along with other logistics such as black helicopters, etc, to some Asian countries instead of sending it to the troops in Iraq. Its political. 
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the war will never end. that's it. as long as the presence of an occupying force in the middle east, it will never end. opposing parties will always claim rightful ownership of the land and thus, they will resort to whatever means to claim what's theirs.
anyway..
"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
-theodore roosevelt -
everything will come to an end. $ is not infinite, troops are not infinite.Originally posted by palmerised:the war will never end. that's it. as long as the presence of an occupying force in the middle east, it will never end. opposing parties will always claim rightful ownership of the land and thus, they will resort to whatever means to claim what's theirs.
anyway..
"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
-theodore roosevelt -
well as long as there's people, it'll never end..
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Back to the topic of GIGN and revolvers.
Frankly, I am slightly suspicious of the fact that the entire GIGN are armed with revolvers. It may be that a few members out of choice or bravado decides that they look more cowboy with a big ass .357 magnum.
Why does anyone use a revolver over a pistol actually?
From what little I know, here are some of the advantages of a revolver...
Big calibre like .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum in a handy package. Similar calibre in a semi-auto pistol would be very big and unwieldy for smaller hands.
Reliability.
No shell casings flying all over the place.
From what little I know, the disadvantages of a revolver.
Small ammo capacity. You better be a very sure shot and make each bullet count.
Hard to aim unless you cock first, which makes it slower than a semi-auto.
Hard to silence as it is a relatively "open" design with a big gap between the drum chamber and the gun barrel.
Slow to reload.
Would you choose a revolver over a pistol as your sidearm? -
its good, u can apply first pressure and when the suspect see the cylinder rotate and hears a click, he know abit more pressure the rd will be discharged, like dat is better. those semi-auto pistols where got such feature....Originally posted by tvdog:Back to the topic of GIGN and revolvers.
Frankly, I am slightly suspicious of the fact that the entire GIGN are armed with revolvers. It may be that a few members out of choice or bravado decides that they look more cowboy with a big ass .357 magnum.
Why does anyone use a revolver over a pistol actually?
From what little I know, here are some of the advantages of a revolver...
Big calibre like .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum in a handy package. Similar calibre in a semi-auto pistol would be very big and unwieldy for smaller hands.
Reliability.
No shell casings flying all over the place.
From what little I know, the disadvantages of a revolver.
Small ammo capacity. You better be a very sure shot and make each bullet count.
Hard to aim unless you cock first, which makes it slower than a semi-auto.
Hard to silence as it is a relatively "open" design with a big gap between the drum chamber and the gun barrel.
Slow to reload.
Would you choose a revolver over a pistol as your sidearm?