Msia SUB
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hi, just wanna know whether did msia oredered agosta sub?
i know they order 3 scorpene sub and heard they order agosta sub also... -
Yes. The single Agosta 70B class SSK is to be used as a training sub.
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oh... thanx...
wonder whya re they buying such a good sub just for training purposes.... -
The agosta sub is an ex-french navy one. They bought 2, not 3 Scorpene subs.
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tt means the agosta should be ready for delivery to msia long ago...
has msia receive it liao? are they training with it in france or brought back to msia?
scorpene are from spain if i'm not wrong...
btw i think the agosta will be among their strike force too...
cuz it doesn't seems cost effective to have such a good and expensive sub for training only... -
They bought 2 Scorpene subs, and 1 Agosta. The Agosta is old sub (decommisioned), not good, just like our Sjoormen. You use old sub for training.
But Singapore bought 5 Sjoormen, but then that time Malaysia didn't even have one. For us, 4 subs operational, 1 for spare parts.
Msia only buy 1 Agosta, purely for training. And their 2 Socrpenes are the good stuff.
But Singapore back then bought all old subs becoz Msia didn't even have one. So thinking can buy 1 complete fleet of old subs just to gain experience in operating subs first, later then buy the good stuff.
I think we should be getting new subs within the next 2 years. Maybe buy 3 new subs, and retain 2 old subs, giving us numerical advantage over Msia.
Also, don't be mistaken, although Scorpene can be AIP, the ones Msia getting are not AIP.
I think we will get AIP. -
look at the amount of internation debt malaysia have, buying sub is going to make it worst
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hmm.. i read somewhere that sinagpore has joined the Viking project ( new generation submarine project, sweden + norway + dunno which country) as an observer.
anyway, sooner or later, it's gonna be out. whether we stick with these 4 subs for another 10-15 years or we'll get new ones.
but i tot the agosta and the socrpenes are great subs from their specs.
another question, think i also read somewhere that there was a joint venture thing that a malaysian coy and a european coy collabrated in marketing the mini-sub ( SWAT ) to the regio ( or at least msia) jus wonder if anyone got any more news.Originally posted by sane_guy2:They bought 2 Scorpene subs, and 1 Agosta. The Agosta is old sub (decommisioned), not good, just like our Sjoormen. You use old sub for training.
But Singapore bought 5 Sjoormen, but then that time Malaysia didn't even have one. For us, 4 subs operational, 1 for spare parts.
Msia only buy 1 Agosta, purely for training. And their 2 Socrpenes are the good stuff.
But Singapore back then bought all old subs becoz Msia didn't even have one. So thinking can buy 1 complete fleet of old subs just to gain experience in operating subs first, later then buy the good stuff.
I think we should be getting new subs within the next 2 years. Maybe buy 3 new subs, and retain 2 old subs, giving us numerical advantage over Msia.
Also, don't be mistaken, although Scorpene can be AIP, the ones Msia getting are not AIP.
I think we will get AIP. -
I reckon RSN should consider the German HDW's U212 or U214 other than just the Kockum Viking. Both the Swedish and German sub companies are 1 now.
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our surrounding waters are not good for sub operations... everytime they wanna train or exercise they needs to go far far away in SCS n they sail there at very low speed, about 10knots... and always need RSN PVs to escort them.... quite a waste of precious manpower just escorting them....
our sjoormen ain't very good too.... there will always be 1 or 2 in yard which leaves our operational sub to 2 or 3, usu 2....
it's time to get rid of the antiques.... as they are so old, u are also wasting precious taxpayers $$ to service them... -
The Sjoormen are old but are also very suitable for littoral waters , becos it only abt 51m in length.Originally posted by Arena:our surrounding waters are not good for sub operations... everytime they wanna train or exercise they needs to go far far away in SCS n they sail there at very low speed, about 10knots... and always need RSN PVs to escort them.... quite a waste of precious manpower just escorting them....
our sjoormen ain't very good too.... there will always be 1 or 2 in yard which leaves our operational sub to 2 or 3, usu 2....
it's time to get rid of the antiques.... as they are so old, u are also wasting precious taxpayers $$ to service them...
That is why we have chosen them for our first acquistion of subs.
Here a link to the thread in the new forum abt possible replacement, lot of articles and links abt subs:
http://s8.invisionfree.com/Military_Nuts/index.php?showtopic=200&st=0 -
I still reckon Singapore should investigate and consider if the Russian midget subs like the Piranha (Piranya Losos) class is suitable for local waters, eg. Singapore Straits, Malacca Straits, Main Straits, etc.Originally posted by Arena:our surrounding waters are not good for sub operations... everytime they wanna train or exercise they needs to go far far away in SCS n they sail there at very low speed, about 10knots... and always need RSN PVs to escort them.... quite a waste of precious manpower just escorting them....
our sjoormen ain't very good too.... there will always be 1 or 2 in yard which leaves our operational sub to 2 or 3, usu 2....
it's time to get rid of the antiques.... as they are so old, u are also wasting precious taxpayers $$ to service them...
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/865.htm -
i would like singapore to have newer and more subs too. but realistically, i wonder if RSN will have a huge problem manning these subs. subs take a special breed of sailor, usually only the top recruits and most experienced men go to work in subs. considering that the RSN is the least popular of the 3 arms in terms of youth interest, and the special abilities needed, how is rsn really going to find good young or experienced people to work in their subs, without compromising their standards, which in effect would nullify the advantage gained on getting better subs.
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yup yup yup.....the british use antique subs by todays SSN standards but are feared becos of those that command them....even the Americans who have the latest subs respect the brits...Originally posted by branzzz:i would like singapore to have newer and more subs too. but realistically, i wonder if RSN will have a huge problem manning these subs. subs take a special breed of sailor, usually only the top recruits and most experienced men go to work in subs. considering that the RSN is the least popular of the 3 arms in terms of youth interest, and the special abilities needed, how is rsn really going to find good young or experienced people to work in their subs, without compromising their standards, which in effect would nullify the advantage gained on getting better subs.
taken from Submarine written by Tom Clancy....
'The US Navy system creates superior submarine drivers and engineers; the Roayal Navy system is designed to produce pure leaders like a Nelson, Rodney, or Woodward(these 3 are one of the best submarine commanders in history more abt them can be read in the book).'---found at page165 of Submarine (Tom Clancy) -
our submariners undergo stringent selection...
physically and mentally.....
manning problem is definitely there, considering time spent on sailing, v little ppl would wanna join the navy... -
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One thing we already have a unname spare part sub, so why Challenger has become another spares part sub?Originally posted by xiongzzz:actually right now, the RSN is left with only 3 operation submarines..
Conqueror, Chieftain and Centurion, Challenger is the so called spare part sub..
and at the moment obly Chieftain is operationally ready as Conqueror will b in yard for the next 1 year n Centurion is undergoing a 3 month yard phase..
Our 2 new submarines will most likely b coming in abt 5 years time as our local submariners havent go to sweden for training.. the New submarine is another german sub make in ard mid 1980s.. so also quite old lar..
it will b 10 metres longer then our present 1 n will b able to sail n submerge much longer as its specially kind of engines
Our present submarines r consider no bad liao as they r very quiet n very good for manoeuvring...
Once our submarine had an exercise against a US contellation which consists of many surface ships and a sub...
we could have won but the US play cheat by not executing some things on the designated timing..
As for another 2nd hand sub , it is most likely the two out of commissioned Vastergotland class,Vastergotland and Halsingland offered by Sweden.
If we getting this ,they might be upgrade with AIP:
http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/sodermanland.html
Remember Swedish's Kockums is now owned by HDW of Germany, so are you refering to the Sodermanland class ( Vastergotland class with AIP) , becos Type209 with AIP will be I think at least 65m long. -
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I have listed that as one of the option for Challenger class replacement in the thread in the new forum.Please refer the post above for the link.Originally posted by xiongzzz:some of the spares in Challenger have already been taken away liao...
so if wanna make challenger sail then have to put back the parts..
most likely AIP will used for the VGD class subs..
It seem to me that you what have stated, the near future we will have three Challenger class for coastal defence and two with AIP more geared for attack roles .
How abt the Vikings?
We are one of the observer of the program, if the program proceed to fruitation, it will be the most likely replacement of the Challenger class. -
I think the Viking programme is in trouble as one of the 3 countries pulled out of the project.
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Eh......errm...... I think I'm wrong. Remember wrongly?? Anyone knows? Viking projct still on?
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Is the thingy about the 2 new subs open domain stuff? I dont think so
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I think so far no official statement that it is cancelled.Originally posted by sane_guy2:Eh......errm...... I think I'm wrong. Remember wrongly?? Anyone knows? Viking projct still on?
I believe the country that pulled out has just relegated to observer status ,no firm commitment of buying. -
They will be out of touch with command for long periods of time though not like the nuclear subs. So need to be able to think and command independently - software?Originally posted by branzzz:i would like singapore to have newer and more subs too. but realistically, i wonder if RSN will have a huge problem manning these subs. subs take a special breed of sailor, usually only the top recruits and most experienced men go to work in subs. considering that the RSN is the least popular of the 3 arms in terms of youth interest, and the special abilities needed, how is rsn really going to find good young or experienced people to work in their subs, without compromising their standards, which in effect would nullify the advantage gained on getting better subs. -
hi xiongzzzz, are the 2 replacement sub u are talking about bears any truth?
it's wonderful to get ground breaking news here, but pls be careful, cuz msd ppl might be lurking around...
so u r in the navy i suppose...
btw i tot we got 5 sub, there's one extra sub where we use to get spare parts, so there's no need for challenger... and submariners' pay is v high....
if challenger becomes a spare sub where ppl rape her of her equipment, then where will the challenger crew be posted? to the squadron and slack? dun forget they got a fat paycheck... PV crew sails more than them and get less pay...