RSAF's ground attack capabilities.
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How do you rate RSAF's ground attack capabilities? What is our main aircraft for this role?
As I've never participated in an excercise with air support for us infantry types, I wonder how well practiced the RSAF is in this role?
Do we have the right kinds of ordnance to deliver devastation on the ground?
Finally, how crucial IS air support to ground operations?
Your opinions... -
well air support is obviously very vital for infantry operations...i dun know about their capabilities, but i do know that they keep pounding pulau senang and the couple of islands every weekend..
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In future we will use the F16CD for ground attack roles.
Actually the F5S are also ground attack capable. -
I would say it is not as good as our intercepting role.
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Don't forget ground attack helicopters - I think we have the Apache Longbow. But that's more of an anti-tank role.
Against enemy infantry, I wonder which is the better platform: fighter bombers or helios?
And what is the most effective ground attack ornance in our RSAF inventory?
I wonder if we have napalm or White Phosphrous (WP) bombs? I read a lot about Korea and Vietnam and napalm bombs is always what saved the day as not only is it obviously very destructive against ANY form of ground targets, it is also extremely demoralising for enemy when faced with the prospect of being burned alive.
In fact, in Korea, the North Koreans (NKPA) warned the allies against using phosphrous grenades as they fear this the most. They told the allies that anyone caught with WP grenades will be die a terrible death by being killed with their own WP grenades. (The NKPA killed any allied prisoner anyway but they consider death by shooting to be an act of kindness.) -
I did say that helicopter gunships are more effective against enemy infantry.However,if ground aerial units are involved,even if they carry only portable SAMs like Stinger or Igla,I did use fighters.As they have a higher chance of survability.But otherwise,an Apache would do fine.But then again,I did rather have a Spectre gunship or a Huey gunship as support compared to an Apache.
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very.Originally posted by tvdog:How do you rate RSAF's ground attack capabilities? What is our main aircraft for this role?
As I've never participated in an excercise with air support for us infantry types, I wonder how well practiced the RSAF is in this role?
Do we have the right kinds of ordnance to deliver devastation on the ground?
Finally, how crucial IS air support to ground operations?
Your opinions... -
Indeed.
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So the importance of air support is a well documented fact since the dawn of the airplane as a combat platform.
But in all my time in infantry (NSF & NS) I have never once done any training with aerial support. So does MINDEF assume that when war comes the army and airforce will automatically know how to co-ordinate operations? Throughout all the wars major and minor ones alike I read horror stories of airforce bombing their own guys on the ground. -
Airpower is "expensive" relative to other sort of indirect fire support like mortars, howizters(spelling) and direct firepower support like ATGW, RR, 75mm Gun and 25mm cannon.
As such, I think in most cases, airpower should be directed at strategic targets like division level CP, fuel dumps, tank parks and strategic bridges etc.... This could be out of range of other types of firepower .
Also can be used against mobile targets such as tanks. This is because it is not very effective to use artillery against tanks as only a direct or near miss will result in damage. Also as it is moving it is not easy to call in fire-power.
Also could be used against target of opportnity such as convoys or amoured columns that is exposed to air attack.
no way a Infantry OC is going to call in an air-strike by on a MG post.... can use the Bn's mortars or the Division's 155mm guns. -
hmmm...anyone know of the guided air to ground weapons for fixed wing aircraft in the RSAF's inventory?
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Think we have Maverick guided missiles.
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There are specialised units to coordinate air strikes by fixed and rotary wing a/c. The people in these units mostly come from all branches of the army but work under the air force. This ensures that "fratricide" is prevented because the guys who call in the air support (be it close air support or just a simple re-suppy drop) know what is going on/ needs to be done, from their previous experience, and secondly , it provides for more intact liaison work within the formation.Originally posted by tvdog:So the importance of air support is a well documented fact since the dawn of the airplane as a combat platform.
But in all my time in infantry (NSF & NS) I have never once done any training with aerial support. So does MINDEF assume that when war comes the army and airforce will automatically know how to co-ordinate operations? Throughout all the wars major and minor ones alike I read horror stories of airforce bombing their own guys on the ground.
I was in such a unit. So don't worry.... training is very often and regular, to the extent that I was usually recalled for reservist training/ exercises at least 3 times a year. -
$100 question: Do we have napalm? - the poor man's nuclear bomb.
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aiya, sala,Originally posted by tvdog:$100 question: Do we have napalm? - the poor man's nuclear bomb.
the poor man's nuclear bomb is either the MOAB or the fuel air explosive bomb that can only be dropped by C130.
Napalm, is never view as a poor man's nuclear bomb.... and I think it has been banned by the Geneva convention. -
ya, the B version which is the TV guided one used by the Skyhawks and Tigers, and the G version which is IR version carried by the Vipers.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Think we have Maverick guided missiles. -
ya, the B version which is the TV guided one used by the Skyhawks and Tigers, and the G version which is IR version carried by the Vipers.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Think we have Maverick guided missiles. -
you sure we had Gs? i always thought we used the Ds for vipers..IIR too..Originally posted by Joe Black:ya, the B version which is the TV guided one used by the Skyhawks and Tigers, and the G version which is IR version carried by the Vipers. -
I think you are most likely rite... I put down D and then changed to G..... I think G version is optimised for anti-ship role - having a larger warhead.Originally posted by sgFish:you sure we had Gs? i always thought we used the Ds for vipers..IIR too.. -
Think that if SG have FAE (Fuel-air explosives) it might stark off a regional arms war.But then again,wondering if RSAF have Daisy Cutters for the C130s?As they are quite useful if landing zones for choppers are to be created in a short time.And it sure as hell is effective against enemy infantry.
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mmhmm. but can our vipers carry the harpoon? if it can then there would be no need for the G model. the Bs and Ds are probably good enough for close air supportOriginally posted by Joe Black:I think you are most likely rite... I put down D and then changed to G..... I think G version is optimised for anti-ship role - having a larger warhead. -
The airforce's capable of doing CAS...
as to the extent and precision i'm not very sure..
anyway most of the time we're using Mk 80 series GP bombs.. does the job well enough. cheap also...
no need napalm and watever shit.. thats what the US uses..
we don't have the luxury of having so many variety of weapons they have..
remember.. we only dealing with relevant threats.. no need to have too many powerful weapons like the US>. it'll be overkill... i mean, who are we fighting? -
Fuel Air Explosive would be great. Better than napalm.
The problem with "iron bombs" are that they don't usually do the job against well-dug-in infantry or MG nests.
With airburst munitions, Fuel Air Explosives or napalm, the enemy is not even safe in his foxhole or behind sandbags.
Wonder if we have all the other goodies like Cluster Bomb Units or smart bombs etc.
What were the best ground attack plane in Vietnam, Falklands, Iraq and what was the most effective ground attack ordnance? I'm not talking about tank busting. -
YesOriginally posted by sgFish:mmhmm. but can our vipers carry the harpoon? if it can then there would be no need for the G model. the Bs and Ds are probably good enough for close air support
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We do have Cluster Bombs and Smart Bombs.We have a unit which can be fitted to conventional "dumb bombs" which makes them smart as it is guided by GPS.
And yes its true,napalm and FAE(fueal Air Explosives) bombs are truly effective against troops even if they are in foxholes or tunnels,when the explosives explode,it will suck in all the oxygen in its effective radius so as to fuel the spread of the flames during the explosion.And the entire area will lack oxygen for like 5-10 seconds or more before there is oxygen again.But when you inhale is petroleum jelly which will scorch your lungs and kill you.
Napalm was used effectively in Vietnam and Korea,you can see the devasting effects of the weapon.Clothings and kit scorched off,skin peelin and whole bodies turning black.Wanna have a look of the effects of Napalm?Watch We Were Soldiers Once and Young.The cries of the troopers are indeed the same as the cries from hell.