CPT Pandiaraj
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Goose, when was Col Cheah ever a paper soldier? Besides, I'm talking about a paper sailor here.Originally posted by gonegoose:Ged, are you referring to Col Cheah? If so, i don't your remark abt him being a standup guy.... and we bringing SJI into the argument too? heh! -
Well after reading the posting in this threads, some with gd points and some with bad points, i read the New Paper Report abt the Cpt.
Like some you guys said, thats how SAF works, its more like thats how life works really.
He happened to to be Supervising Officer in paper( hope i am right here), and the Admin Instructions itself is a legal document, i remember my S3 drilling us day in day out last time on the importance of the document of how it can either save ones ass or frys ones ass.
Its a sad event for Cpt Pandi, the actions untaken by his fellow CDO proves that only a gd leader, one that many respect will allow such actions of writing letters to ministers etc. Its really sad that the world operates this way. Remember the monumenets on the top of the Supreme Court, where one of the figures holding the scales of Justices was blindfolded, in the eyes of the law, whoever has done wrong in what way has to be punished.
I just hope Cpt Pandi is able to resume his life if not his carrer. For i always belive in the Ranger's Creed, "Never shall I fail my comrades" and he will pick himself up again.
regards -
My guess:
US Forces - less so because they see a lot of combat (relatively) and thus there are alternative avenues of moving up or playing a bigger role in the event of things. When you are seen as a war hero in America, it doesnt matter you got a D in maths.
Israel - This is everyday life and death - no way I put my hands in a paper-pushing asslicker.
British - like us, because of so call "blue blood" cohorts in high ranking positions...character dont count much, you must belong to a certain circle -
This salior kind of have a "duh?" face. But I noticed his hair is like greyed overnight. Must be really taxing walking the minefields of the current political landscape.Originally posted by Gedanken:Goose, when was Col Cheah ever a paper soldier? Besides, I'm talking about a paper sailor here. -
You know the one I'm talking about. His predecessor was also an SJI boy and a helluva lot more solid at his job than Gilligan here.Originally posted by Xprobe:This salior kind of have a "duh?" face. But I noticed his hair is like greyed overnight. Must be really taxing walking the minefields of the current political landscape.
Just a thought: was it coincidental that this case came up at a time when they were trying to cut NS down to two years? Maybe there's some political skulduggery here too. -
You all sound like victims. Now think about this:
Rambo's win fights and battles.
Generals win wars.
If you reverse the role, General material in a Rambo mission losses fights and battles. And Rambo material in a General suite losses wars.
So don't always complain that the world is unfair blablabla. The world is like the way it is because things fall into places nicely throughout natural evolution of the society. No one pointed a gun at you and said that you must become a CDO and you must not study. Just that someone chose the scholar path, someone chose the Rambo path. That's all. Simple as that. Your OWN actions between 12 - 20 years old determined your path today. (Of course there are very very low percentage of exceptional cases).
You don't like it? Consider this: The people who work the most hours in Microsoft and who are in direct connection to Microsoft's products, are the software programmers. But they get peanuts as compared to Bill Gates who gets all the money, and I doubt that he still knows how to write a simple program. And yes, Bill Gates indeed deserves all those money. -
Ged, i don't know if you know this.... but Col Cheah was also an SJI boy. But which Sec school you come from has little or no bearing on how you turn out later in life. But then again, i have never interacted with the alleged "paper sailor" so will not comment further.
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errrr...Rambo is fiction and I detest your equating this hollywood concept with CDOs (by the way, I am not one), they are much better than that...also there is no linear relationship between scholary skills with real generals, they can certainly play generals of course, but real generals? i reserve my doubts.Originally posted by zhaozhilong:You all sound like victims. Now think about this:
Rambo's win fights and battles.
Generals win wars.
If you reverse the role, General material in a Rambo mission losses fights and battles. And Rambo material in a General suite losses wars.
So don't always complain that the world is unfair blablabla. The world is like the way it is because things fall into places nicely throughout natural evolution of the society. No one pointed a gun at you and said that you must become a CDO and you must not study. Just that someone chose the scholar path, someone chose the Rambo path. That's all. Simple as that. Your OWN actions between 12 - 20 years old determined your path today. (Of course there are very very low percentage of exceptional cases).
You don't like it? Consider this: The people who work the most hours in Microsoft and who are in direct connection to Microsoft's products, are the software programmers. But they get peanuts as compared to Bill Gates who gets all the money, and I doubt that he still knows how to write a simple program. And yes, Bill Gates indeed deserves all those money.
and of course i read that you are propagating the usual theory of everyone should just loyally play their roles in the overall system...so too bad you are pigeon-holed as a work horse, thats your fate, you should be grateful that at least you get to play a role, no matter how demeaning it is and what dreams and aspirations you have.
people like you...
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what he probably meant was...Originally posted by Xprobe:errrr...Rambo is fiction and I detest your equating this hollywood concept with CDOs (by the way, I am not one), they are much better than that...also there is no linear relationship between scholary skills with real generals, they can play generals of course, but real generals? i reserve my doubts.
Rambos being the operators...foot soldiers...the men on the field... -
Typical case of SAF scapegoat.
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Bill Gates is formerly a programmer.Originally posted by zhaozhilong:You don't like it? Consider this: The people who work the most hours in Microsoft and who are in direct connection to Microsoft's products, are the software programmers. But they get peanuts as compared to Bill Gates who gets all the money, and I doubt that he still knows how to write a simple program. And yes, Bill Gates indeed deserves all those money. -
lol...who is smart in marketing...he borrowed alot of concepts.....Originally posted by SnowFlag:Bill Gates is formerly a programmer. -
oooo. um... sounds like John Clark in the Jack Ryan stories.Originally posted by superworm99:he joined OCS intake 28/97 OCC Echo Platoon 4 in service term and soon earned a reputation for himself, not as a RANGER cadet but as someone who knows his stuff and as someone who lived by e ranger creed and e officer creed. he was a leader for all and its only natural he won Sword of Honour.
not much of stories i can tell cos im not a good story teller and im in another platoon. e only story i remembered vividly was during service term field camp in Tekong, his section was halted and "taken POW" by a fighting patrol from another rival company, Bravo. Mr Ranger, sneaked out in the dark, made a small flank and used his bayonet to silenced e entire enemy patrol. -
most great generals who lived started out as grunts and lowly personal. Rommel, McAuther, Monty, Eisenhower etc. Today's scholar generals probably would run the moment war is declared. Generals win wars. Scholar Generals are there to look pretty. THAT'S the difference. so there.Originally posted by zhaozhilong:You all sound like victims. Now think about this:
Rambo's win fights and battles.
Generals win wars.
If you reverse the role, General material in a Rambo mission losses fights and battles. And Rambo material in a General suite losses wars.
So don't always complain that the world is unfair blablabla. The world is like the way it is because things fall into places nicely throughout natural evolution of the society. No one pointed a gun at you and said that you must become a CDO and you must not study. Just that someone chose the scholar path, someone chose the Rambo path. That's all. Simple as that. Your OWN actions between 12 - 20 years old determined your path today. (Of course there are very very low percentage of exceptional cases).
You don't like it? Consider this: The people who work the most hours in Microsoft and who are in direct connection to Microsoft's products, are the software programmers. But they get peanuts as compared to Bill Gates who gets all the money, and I doubt that he still knows how to write a simple program. And yes, Bill Gates indeed deserves all those money.
Somemore look at your nick! Zhao Zhi Long. U think he was a scholar general? He got there by virtue of being highly skilled in martial arts. Yes he was also highly intelligent, but he had to make a name for himself, did you think Liu Bei picked him because of his paper qualifications?
I think, until you actually know more about paper generals, u need to just keep quiet. -
What the devil are you blathering on about? Are you having the same conversation as everyone else on this thread? I mean, something coming out of left field is bad enough - this isn't even on the same planet.Originally posted by zhaozhilong:You all sound like victims. Now think about this:
Rambo's win fights and battles.
Generals win wars.
If you reverse the role, General material in a Rambo mission losses fights and battles. And Rambo material in a General suite losses wars.
So don't always complain that the world is unfair blablabla. The world is like the way it is because things fall into places nicely throughout natural evolution of the society. No one pointed a gun at you and said that you must become a CDO and you must not study. Just that someone chose the scholar path, someone chose the Rambo path. That's all. Simple as that. Your OWN actions between 12 - 20 years old determined your path today. (Of course there are very very low percentage of exceptional cases).
You don't like it? Consider this: The people who work the most hours in Microsoft and who are in direct connection to Microsoft's products, are the software programmers. But they get peanuts as compared to Bill Gates who gets all the money, and I doubt that he still knows how to write a simple program. And yes, Bill Gates indeed deserves all those money.
What's this Rambo and generals crap? Man, I don't know what you're smoking, but for your sake I hope nobody in law enforcement gets a whiff of it. This is the military, where the ethos is that you take responsibility for your own job, and if you screw up, the buck stops with you. That applies to everyone in the military, from recruit to goddam 20-star general.
Well, at least it applies in any military that doesn't have a WH system.
Apart from that, a sargeant does a sargeant's job and a general does a general's job. Pay scales are, of course, according to the roles and breadth of responsibility. That's got jack squat to do with what's being discussed here, so keep that nonsense to yourself. You sound like you've either got a severe cognitive distortion, or you simply want to spew irrelevant crap to make yourself sound clever - that cockamamie plan obviously hasn't worked. -
Yeah, Col Cheah's always been all right in my book, and like I said, it wasn't him I was talking about. I don't know if you're a Josephian yourself, but by tradition my lot was taught a moral code by which you don't scapegoat people just to cover your own sorry ass, so I respectfully disagree with your point about it having no bearing.Originally posted by gonegoose:Ged, i don't know if you know this.... but Col Cheah was also an SJI boy. But which Sec school you come from has little or no bearing on how you turn out later in life. But then again, i have never interacted with the alleged "paper sailor" so will not comment further. -
EVERYONE knows that Rambo is a fiction.Originally posted by Xprobe:errrr...Rambo is fiction and I detest your equating this hollywood concept with
You are not so good at comprehension, aren't you. You read, yes, but you don't get the meaning of what you read. Try reading it one more time.Originally posted by Xprobe:and of course i read that you are propagating the usual theory of everyone should just loyally play their roles in the overall system...
What I'm "propagating" is that, you are what you are today because of your own doing (of course, there are some exceptions). You chose your path. If you feel unfair, then do something to change your role in this society. Don't blame others (higher ranks, for example). You have complaints? You feel that SAF is not right? Ok! Then strive to become a General one day so that you can change SAF to become what you feel is right. If you don't have that ability or if you are just not determined enough to achieve that, then you can just sit back with your brothers all day long complaining that you are treated unfailrly as "expendable".
Real man change his own fate. The crowd can just sit at the bar and complain. -
Precisely my point - then why the Rambo analogy given its differnt context.Originally posted by zhaozhilong:You are not so good at comprehension, aren't you. You read, yes, but you don't get the meaning of what you read. Try reading it one more time.
What I'm "propagating" is that, you are what you are today because of your own doing (of course, there are some exceptions). You chose your path. If you feel unfair, then do something to change your role in this society. Don't blame others (higher ranks, for example). You have complaints? You feel that SAF is not right? Ok! Then strive to become a General one day so that you can change SAF to become what you feel is right. If you don't have that ability or if you are just not determined enough to achieve that, then you can just sit back with your brothers all day long complaining that you are treated unfailrly as "expendable".
Real man change his own fate. The crowd can just sit at the bar and complain.
"You are what you are today because of your own doing" - what about the rules that governs how one can play? Obviously, I read that you did not take this into consideration. No need to comprehend that.
Back to the topic...who sets the rules? Rules are set based on a set of values and sometimes these days, on mere assumptions. Some rules are time-honored while others are obsolete given today's circumstances. My suggestion is for you to talk to common folks and ask them why cant they fugging buck up and change their lives. The revelation is likely to be enlightening and for your case, humbling I hope. -
And what, pray tell, puts you in a position to speak of these things? Are you a general?Originally posted by zhaozhilong:What I'm "propagating" is that, you are what you are today because of your own doing (of course, there are some exceptions). You chose your path. If you feel unfair, then do something to change your role in this society. Don't blame others (higher ranks, for example). You have complaints? You feel that SAF is not right? Ok! Then strive to become a General one day so that you can change SAF to become what you feel is right. If you don't have that ability or if you are just not determined enough to achieve that, then you can just sit back with your brothers all day long complaining that you are treated unfailrly as "expendable".
Real man change his own fate. The crowd can just sit at the bar and complain.
Here we have a minister and former member of general staff, and he's running for cover and throwing a captain to the public as a decoy. I think that says it all about your little "generals are so great" theory. As such, you can stick your brainwave where the sun don't shine.
Listen, boy, when you try to yammer and stammer on about roles in society and education, maybe you'd better check around and see who you're talking to. If you're average Joe, you're going to make a damned fool of yourself talking to much bigger people about being a "real man".
Sure, the crowd sits at the bar and complains. It's the poor schlep sweeping up the peanut shells complaining about the guys at the bar. -
X, is it just me, or does this guy sound like he's either just joined an MLM or heard his first Anthony Robbins CD?Originally posted by Xprobe:Precisely my point - then why the Rambo analogy given its differnt context.
"You are what you are today because of your own doing" - what about the rules that governs how one can play? Obviously, I read that you did not take this into consideration. No need to comprehend that.
Back to the topic...who sets the rules? Rules are set based on a set of values and sometimes these days, on mere assumptions. Some rules are time-honored while others are obsolete given today's circumstances. My suggestion is for you to talk to common folks and ask them why cant they fugging buck up and change their lives. The revelation is likely to be enlightening and for your case, humbling I hope.
Sure as hell, he's got no understanding of how things work even at unit level, much less in the bigger military picture. He's excluding the possibility that sargeants may actually like their jobs and not want to become generals, and that all they want to do is get on with the job without some pencil-pusher who knows nothing coming along and buggering up the works.
Bottom line is that this jackass has no clue of what he's talking about - he obviously has no experience of life in a unit, and therefore has to fall back on the "tak zhi kiang kiang" advice his mother gave him when he was knee-high. -
Ged,
Dont kill yourself over this.
We are so drilled in (A) Rank alone, be it military or civil, equates your level of intelligence, integrity, competence and character and (B) Rules are divine, universal truths that challenging it is unthinkable.
We are suckers for titles, labels and all this branding shit and suckers we will continue to be.
There is no room for lateral thinking. People like us are mutations, the odd unpoisonous almond seed that sprang by freak chance. I always enjoy a good laugh when the system cannot seem to and is unsure of how to "slot" a person into their spreadsheet because certain attrinbutes "by right" have no rational
relationships. I call it the "Ah Beng CEO" paradox. -
Real men, do the jobs they choose to do, to their utmost best.Not everyone is suited to be a General, but that does not mean he or she cannot do anything professionally right?Btw, have you served NS before?Originally posted by zhaozhilong:You are not so good at comprehension, aren't you. You read, yes, but you don't get the meaning of what you read. Try reading it one more time.
What I'm "propagating" is that, you are what you are today because of your own doing (of course, there are some exceptions). You chose your path. If you feel unfair, then do something to change your role in this society. Don't blame others (higher ranks, for example). You have complaints? You feel that SAF is not right? Ok! Then strive to become a General one day so that you can change SAF to become what you feel is right. If you don't have that ability or if you are just not determined enough to achieve that, then you can just sit back with your brothers all day long complaining that you are treated unfailrly as "expendable".
Real man change his own fate. The crowd can just sit at the bar and complain. -
Originally posted by Xprobe:Ged,
Dont kill yourself over this.
We are so drilled in (A) Rank alone, be it military or civil, equates your level of intelligence, integrity, competence and character and (B) Rules are divine, universal truths that challenging it is unthinkable.
We are suckers for titles, labels and all this branding shit and suckers we will continue to be.
There is no room for lateral thinking. People like us are mutations, the odd unpoisonous almond seed that sprang by freak chance. I always enjoy a good laugh when the system cannot seem to and is unsure of how to "slot" a person into their spreadsheet because certain attrinbutes "by right" have no rational relationships. I call it the "Ah Beng CEO" paradox.
Nah, after all that pontificating, I felt it best to show that this tosser's not only built a house of cards, he's built it on soft sand as well.
You're right, of course. Zhaobakzhang's piffle is obviously the product of parents and teachers constantly droning, "Sit down, shut up and do as you're told". -
Lordz, that argument would only make sense to someone who's ever met a real man. Being taken by one doesn't count.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Real men, do the jobs they choose to do, to their utmost best.Not everyone is suited to be a General, but that does not mean he or she cannot do anything professionally right?Btw, have you served NS before? -
Muahahahaahahahaahah (fell off chair)
Yeah, come get some loving from Encik